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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 84.50.182.154 (talk) at 02:30, 21 February 2013 (→‎Direction of the object). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Direction of the object

Could we sort out which direction the object was moving for the section "Unrelated Asteroid approach?" I pulled a statement from NASA saying that it was north to south while another source stated east to west. The article saying east to west is in Russian, so I'm unable to decipher it.Cheerioswithmilk (talk) 16:32, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This would be going into original research, but I believe NASA is wrong. The path is more east to west. I have collected a playlist of footage on YouTube. It is also worth looking at the smoke trail videos, as they will show the direction of the sun. And yes, the sun does not rise from the east in Siberia in the winter. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 16:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The exact direction can be inferred from this video from a webcam facing south on Revolution Square in central Chelyabinsk. The shadows of the street lamps are seen traveling almost exactly west to east on Lenin Prospect, which would indicate an east-west path for the meteor. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Since this is a bit disputed, I've removed the north south direction for now.Cheerioswithmilk (talk) 17:11, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Because both events are over now, I removed "estimated" and "will pass". The Guardian quotes NASA (north to south). Eventually a better source might be available. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:32, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I changed to north to south, because Chelyabinsk is north of Chebarkul, because of (Quinn, Ben and agencies (February 15, 2013). "Asteroid misses Earth by 17,000 miles after meteor strikes Russia". The Guardian (Guardian News and Media). http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/15/asteroid-misses-earth-meteor-strike. Retrieved February 15, 2013.) and because of this picture ([1]). Scientific American, Meteor researcher Margaret Campbell-Brown [2]:

Energy of the explosion was about 300 kilotons of TNT equivalent
About 15 meters in size
Moving at about 18 kilometers per second, which is about 65,000 kilometers per hour
A mass of probably about 7,000 metric tons
Fireball begins at c. 50 km altitude
Main energy release at 15 to 20 kilometers altitude
--Chris.urs-o (talk) 13:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
NASA update (February 15, 2013 7pm PST) [3]:
Disintegrated in the skies over Chelyabinsk, Russia, at 7:20:26 p.m. PST, or 10:20:26 p.m. EST on Feb. 14 (3:20:26 UTC on Feb. 15)
Estimated size of the object, prior to entering Earth's atmosphere, 55 feet (17 meters)
Estimated mass 10,000 tons
Estimate for energy released during the event 500 kilotons
The event, from atmospheric entry to the meteor's airborne disintegration took 32.5 seconds
(This gives a density of c. 3.9, that is greater than c. 2.6 of a stony meteorite, so stony-iron meteorite (mesosiderite or pallasite), probably)
--Chris.urs-o (talk) 13:34, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Monte Morin (15 February 2013). "Russian 'meteor' was actually a tiny asteroid, NASA says". Los Angeles Times. Event occurs at 6:30 p.m. Retrieved 17 February 2013.
“Tiny asteroid”, 45 feet across (13.7 m), about 10,000 tons and traveled about 40,000 mph (64,400 km/h).
--Chris.urs-o (talk) 12:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Petri Krohn's conclusion above that the meteor followed a more east to west direction trajectory, instead of the north to south direction mentioned by other sources, is correct. As he points out the shadows of the street light poles move west to east on the roadway below in this south looking view looking, which implies a definite east to west motion component of the light source. Moreover, the shadows of the light pole tips travel almost exactly parallel to the east west running lanes on the road below (along a line from about170 degrees to about 80 degrees). Thus the line traced out by the shadow tips on the road surface and the tip of one of the light pole tops in the center of the picture define a plane in which the light source had to have been moving. Given the proportions in the video, such as car sizes, light poles are likely about 10 m tall. The shortest pole shadow lengths appear to be about the height of the pole. This entails that the aforementioned plane would have an about 45 degree inclination toward the south, with the pole tip shadow line on the pavement forming the intersection between that plane and the plane defined by the pavement. The initial pole shadows pointed toward an about 300 degree heading (light source in the east southeast area and traveled over about the next 5 second time interval via the 360 reps. 0 degree heading to an about 40 degree heading. The brightest flash was recorded when the shadows pointed toward an about 340 degree heading. If the meteor came in on a trajectory tangential to the earths surface, i.e. on a grazing trajectory, it would have to have been traveling pretty much exactly from east to west. However, if the meteor came in on a path inclined to the local Chelyabinsk horizon plane, then it must have come in from an E to SE direction, traveling toward W to NW. The steeper the more from a southerly direction.

The meteor "flashed" brightly when it was SSE of Chelyabinsk at an about 160 degree heading (to go with the above mentioned about 340 degree heading of the light pole shadow at the time of the "flash"). Because the meteor presumably "burst" about 20 to 30 km above ground, and given the above mentioned putative motion planes inclination, that "flash" had to have occurred above an area located about 20 to 30 km SSE of Chelyabinsk. This puts the "flash" location roughly SSE and halfway between Chelyabinsk and Yemanzhelinsk and pretty much exactly due east from Chebarkul and its adjacent lake, where some of the fragments supposedly impacted on earth. Also, over the roughly 5 Seconds long period of the "light show" the shadow of the pole tips traveled about 3 pole heights along the pavement from west to east, or about 30 m given the above assumptions. This makes for an about 6 m/s west to east motion for the pole tips shadow. Given the 10 m light pole height, the 45 degree inclination of the putative plane of motion of the meteor, and the roughly 20 to 30 km SSE location of the "flash" this results in an about 15 km/s east west component for the meteors velocity. This leaves very little for a south to north velocity component, considering the 15 to 18 km/s total velocity estimated by others for this meteor. Looks like a grazing trajectory with an approach from E to ESE toward W to WNW is a pretty good guess after all. A "south to north" trajectory is not likely a good guess, and a "north to south" trajectory is impossible given the evidence.Jbwischki (talk) 23:23, 16 February 2013 (UTC),[reply]

The best analysis of the path of the meteor is presented in these two pages:
The direction of the trajectory is from east by south, not north to south as previously claimed. The explosion happened at a height of 27 km above the town of Korkino, about 40km south of central Chelyabinsk. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What about the satellite images showing the smoke plume positioned towards the south east? They clearly show the meteor having traveled from the north west towards the south-east. In this satellite image overlay one can clearly see that the plume runs parallel with the Kazakhstan border. For further reference, the dark shadow you see on the edge of the plume is the shadow formed during the brightest flare up indicating the meteor entered from the right of the map and traveled in a south-easterly direction toward the left of the map. 1.178.161.116 (talk) 09:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Some more images here, here, here and here.
It is important to remember, that if the satellite that took the photo was not in absolute zenith position of the smoke trail, then the beginning (higher position) of the trail might be heavily shifted away from the camera viewpoint. The end of trail is shifting too, but in lower extent as it is much lower. So satellite images are pretty useless for estimating the actual direction unless satellite position is taken into account.194.126.101.134 (talk) 11:45, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have to point out that the satellite images above, Stefan Geens video reconstruction and the Google Maps Reconstruction all confirm that the meteor was traveling in an easterly direction. Everyone else seem to claim that the meteor was traveling in a westerly direction coming in from the east, which is fine in theory... but which of the two claims are true? They both cannot be true. 1.178.161.116 (talk) 12:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1.178.161.116 (talk) 09:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See: The latest orbit determined by Dave Clark (and yes, the meteor came roughly from the East, not from the North as stated in the initial NASA reports) -- Kheider (talk) 10:02, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is for sure, that the meteor came from the east and landed towards west. As much as I understand the dispute has been if the meteor came from northwards (according to the NASA) or southwards (some other sources) the exact east (ENE or ESE) or from exact east (E). A smoke trail from two dimentional satellite image is not good inficator on this question, because one can be easily mislead by distortion caused by slope of the trail together with lateral position of the camera.194.126.101.134 (talk) 13:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I try to explain the problem with the illustration. The problem is, that some experts are estimated, that it was the 3.rd situation.194.126.101.134 (talk) 22:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you mean and I am in total agreement with you. The evidence shows it could only have been an approach from a westerly direction, so all other theories must be discounted. As for the angle, the video and photogrammatic reconstructions seem to be the most accurate while the map shown in the article seems to be based on the satellite imagery. This must be reviewed and a more accurate map drawn up. 1.178.33.170 (talk) 02:06, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The meteoroid may very well have been travelling North to South in space. The Earth goes around the Sun at 66 000 mph. The Earth is spinning on its axis at more than 1000 mph at the Equator and probably 650 mph or so at this latitude. Seen from the Moon, the track of the meteroid in space may well appear to be more North to South but as seen from the Earth or plotted against the Earth's surface, perhaps running in a completely different direction, biased more East to West. The impact speed relative to Earth is the sum of the meteors' own velocity in space and that of the Earth's around the Sun. Speed relative to the eventual impact point is also further modified by the added or subtracted speed of the Earth turning on its own axis. -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 15:13, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If some scientists claim that the meteoroid and the asteroid had too different orbits around the Sun to be related, then at first I'd like to see a correct 3D model of the meteoroid landing. If they even can't estimate correct landing trajectory, then orbit calculations are certainly wrong.194.126.101.133 (talk) 18:16, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Have you seen this reconstruction? Boardhead (talk) 19:28, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The orbit view of 2012 DA 14 in that animation is incorrect. The travel of 2012 DA 14 was not due South to due North in space. The orbital inclination of 2012 DA 14 is only ten degrees or so, as shown in another video. 2012 DA 14 appears to be travelling South to North when viewed from the Earth only because the asteroid is moving along in its own orbit at about the same rate as the Earth is moving in its orbit around the Sun.
I'd also like to see the animation of the Russian meteor orbit extended back out into space and showing at least the last few days or weeks of travel. -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 21:51, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If they missed correct course by at least 15 degrees (very possibly 30 degrees!), then how badly mistaken they are about orbit predictions? 194.126.101.133 (talk) 22:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
All their orbit predictions are based on one lousy weather satellite image (quote: "Note that the simulation uses the published Meteosat 9 images, which captured the meteor’s contrails, to help locate the approximate path of the meteor.") and they did not take into account, that meteors trail is sloped and photo taken from sideways has heavily distorted track! Note, that Meteosat 9 is in geostationary orbit above Africa, and this caused serious distortion of the sloped contrail of Chelyabinsk meteoroid! See this map for much more probable track! 194.126.101.133 (talk) 22:31, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Another question is, that if the scientist calculated correct orbit for the meteoroid, then they should be able to use latest night sky photo archive to locate the meteoroid, as it is much easier to find things when you know that it exists and you know its approximate location.194.126.101.133 (talk) 18:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
An object that small is incredibly faint. It is seen only by the sunlight that it reflects. More than 48 hours before impact it would be very hard to find. The main problem is that it came from a similar direction to where the Sun is in the sky, so would not have been in the night sky. It might, however, turn up in photos from a few years ago on a previous orbit. - 79.70.229.101 (talk) 19:00, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
See: NASA Meteor Watch
Again: If they missed correct course by at least 15 degrees (very possibly 30 degrees!), then how badly mistaken they are about orbit predictions? 194.126.101.133 (talk) 22:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A saw an article about a new set of telescopes NASA is building in Hawaii, I think. They said that if this new one had been online, it could have given a one-day warning. So with current telescopes looking for asteroids, even that warning was probably not feasible. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:47, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Conspiracy theories - well deserved

Sorry, but so many things are odd about this story that I can actually understand the conspiracy theorists this time.

I mean, seriously... it's a COINCIDENCE that the biggest meteor in 100 years reaches the Earth hours before the OTHER biggest meteor in 100 years?

And then, I've just read that authorities have "given up" looking for fragments of the meteor, and that the 8 meter hole in that lake's ice sheet was "not caused" by the meteor. So by WHAT do exactly round 8 meter holes in lake ice sheets get caused?

All very strange...

And am I the only one who finds it even stranger that NASA estimated a 500 kiloton BLAST from a 10-kiloton (10,000-ton) mass? This does not sound like (a) vaporization due to heat, or (b) a chemical explosion of a 10-kiloton mass of TNT. That seems to leave a nuclear mechanism... but many years of speculation about the Tunguska event have not come up with a plausible mechanism for a nuclear detonation in an incoming rock.

The meteor that entered the atmosphere over the Ural Mountains had a trajectory that was perpendicular to the path of asteroid 2012 DA14. This means they did not approach the earth on the same trajectory as each other. The hole is 6 meters, not 8 meters and the lake is not the only probable location of meteor fragments. The meteor and the asteroid arrived approximately 15 hours apart. And yes, coincidences do happen. These are not just isolated incidents. Meteors enter the Earth's atmosphere on a weekly basis and represent nothing unusual. Asteroids also pass the Earth on a regular basis and occasionally will coincidentally align along similar trajectories or timed Earth approaches. It so happens that the Russian meteor entered the atmosphere at such an angle and velocity that it managed to cause as much of a spectacle and damage as it did.1.178.161.116 (talk) 11:08, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Objects the size of the Russian meteor enter the Earth's atmosphere on a weekly basis" No, luckily not, objects of 10000 tons don't enter the atmosphere on a weekly basis. 83.163.5.82 (talk) 12:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You are correct. I withdraw that comment. It was supposed to read "Objects the size of the Russian meteor do not enter the Earth's atmosphere on a weekly basis. Smaller meteors represent nothing unusual." My bad. I have simplified it anyway. In fact, now that I think about it... the Wikipedia page Impact Event provides a handy reference chart as to the frequency of stony asteroid impacts that generate an airburst. If we spent more time tracking meteoroids then we'd have a more accurate number of actual approaches and near misses. 1.178.161.116 (talk) 13:04, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is just not true, that "the meteor had a trajectory that was perpendicular to the path of asteroid". This nonsens is based on mistake - NASA took Meteosat image and read the direction from the smoke trail on the image, but forgot that the slope of trajectory together with the lateral position of the satellite camera causes great shift in upper end of the smoke trail.--194.126.101.133 (talk) 23:08, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to have spammed the Talk page with this. But nowadays, where every politician lies all day and secret service agents are practically proven to assassinate "impractical" scientists in clichee motorbike attacks, just like in James Bond movies, it's really difficult at times not to believe in conspiracies. I heard about the different trajectories too, but then again, there was lots of contradictory information even about those. The probability for TWO "100-year meteors" passing by Earth so closely both in space and time is probably extremely low, so I was really baffled and though that the Russian meteor MUST be a fragment of the bigger one. Maybe it is and its trajectory was altered by gravity? No idea... anyway...
  • Objects frequently come within 5 LD (Lunar Distances) and we will not detect most of the objects less than ~20 meters in diameter until they are ~2 days from impact/closest approach. Should the object be too close to the Sun in the sky, or if the surveys are looking in a different region of the sky, the ~20 meter objects can easily be missed altogether. 2005 YU55 (360 meters in diameter) passed @ 0.85 LD on 8 November 2011 and nothing happened. People just want to see a pattern in everything. -- Kheider (talk) 13:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Firstly, meteors appear in Earth's atmosphere, not in space and secondly, we have clear satellite images of the meteor signature over the Ural Mountains and clear long exposure images of the trajectory of DA14. There can be no contradiction as to the trajectories of either object as they are calculated to have been traveling in opposite directions. More accurately they were traveling in perpendicular directions. The meteor traveled east to west in a south to south-westerly direction and the asteroid passed the Earth from south to north in a north to north westerly direction. 1.178.161.116 (talk) 14:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clearwater Lakes in Canada are a rare example of a double asteroid impact. The craters were formed when twin asteroids, gravitationally bound, impacted the Earth. DA14 was not associated with the Russian asteroid as it, as they weren't orbiting each other. --Diamonddavej (talk) 15:28, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The escape velocity from 2012 DA14 (based on a rocky asteroid with a radius of 25 meters) is only 0.025 meters (0.98 in) per second. As a rule of thumb for rocky asteroids, the radius (in km) roughly equals escape velocity (in meters per second). Since binary NEOs have a pathetically small hill sphere, none of the satellites orbit more than a few km from the primary body. Anything pulling on a satellite of DA14 would pull on DA14 equally. -- Kheider (talk) 16:13, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As the question why two 100-year meteors happen on the same day is only being asked because a 100-year meteor had happened, the chance of two is only that of ONE 100-year meteor. And if Russia happen later, up to 16 hours after, it would've been just as remarkable, 36,525/(32/24) equals a 1 in 27,393.75 chance, which is, needless to say, remarkable. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:52, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The evidence collected from space and on site takes care of the conspiracy theories. I have not seen any worth mentioning in this article. Regarding the persistent introduction of the "American weapon" accusation, it is frankly, a moronic statement, non-notable (WP:Notability) and without importance. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 17:53, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

L1 Lagrangian point shepard = related ... this discussion got archived by someone trying to silence it - is this now what wiki is? - you dont want original research but you want to just accept all the next day pseudoscience that is being added to the wiki article - is wiki an encyclopedia or just a garage band fad?--68.231.15.56 (talk) 20:05, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

once again removed non-sequitur comments from vandal editor - wiki is not a forum for comedy - wiki is a group of editors seeking to create an enclyclopedia--68.231.15.56 (talk) 23:11, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

oh and again for the record, the supposed opposing directions of both objects are irrelevant - that pseudoscience is not what wiki is--68.231.15.56 (talk) 20:08, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that an editor did archive that discussion a bit early. You are free to bring the discussion back up if you feel that it will help to improve the article. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:36, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"According to NASA scientists, the trajectory of the Russia meteor was significantly different than the trajectory of the asteroid 2012 DA14, making it a completely unrelated object." - i feel sorry for anyone whom actually believes this next day pseudoscience - this is the sentence from quote unquote NASA on unrelatedness - these pseudoscientists must me mickey and minnie mouse otherwise why are their illustrious next day scientific conclusions not being directly acredited to them by name - the same names that in a couple of years when real hard working scientists publish acual peer reviewed papers proving the the russian meteor was one of probably many L1 Lagrangian points shepards we can then all ridicule their supposed next day pseudoscience that got acklambed endlessly by the infoentainment next day news media--68.231.15.56 (talk) 23:22, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
oh and again i dont care about last minute observations leading to a supposedly accurate trajectory for the meteor - youtube is not what i start with for data to make and test science--68.231.15.56 (talk) 23:25, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is north-south / north-south correct?

Regarding section Coincidental asteroid approach:

"The Chelyabinsk meteor was moving from north to south, whereas the trajectory of the asteroid was from south to north."

Is that really true?

The inclination of the orbit of the asteriod, 2012_DA14, is only 11.60° (also illustrated in ), so I would expect it to move from west to east (if the asteroid is overtaking the Earth), and not from south to north. The Russian meteor moved from east to west according to the figure in section Object and entry, "The meteor's path, with Chelyabinsk marked."

--Mortense (talk) 16:53, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The east/west motion almost exactly cancels out Earth's, leaving only the slight northward incline to be felt. Also, in the sky, when north is up east is left because as you move that way you go over lands to the east. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly: earth and the asteroid move rather similarly in the X-Y plane, so the largest differential is in the Z-plane. Earth and the asteroid meet in the ascending node of the orbit, so that differential motion in the Z-plane is from south to north. As seen from the geocenter, fragments in the orbit of 2012 DA14 would approach from celestial declination -81 degrees, almost at the southern celestial pole LaMa (talk) 16:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
2012_DA14 is special, as it shared its orbit with Earth (366.2 days orbital period, 1.001 AU semi-major axis). Relative movement was minimal, and in this case south-north. All asteroids have orbits on the ecliptic plane. Relative movement would thus be from east or west, depending which side of the Earth was hit. On the northern hemisphere all directions would be slightly tilted to the south – on the north pole all meteors are coming from the south. Given the azimuth of 98 degrees and altitude of 20 decrees for the impact, it seem that the asteroid was simply moving on the ecliptic plane with very little inclination in its orbit. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Brightness and heat

Does anyone have any info indicating the apparent brightness of the meteor, and whether people felt a heat flash from the air-burst? The peak brightness was clearly much greater than the sun, which would suggest apparent magnitude about -27 to -30. Fig (talk) 17:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Many eyewitnesses did report feeling an intense heat coming from the sky during the explosion and accompanying flashes. One eyewitness stated on camera: "A fireball flew by. It got really hot and it dazzled us. We even tried to hide behind the rubbish bins." The woman speaks in Russian but there is a female translator speaking over her. Her on-camera statement can be viewed here: "Russian Meteor strike eyewitness speaks". 1.178.33.170 (talk) 00:18, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good find 1.178.33.170 - I've added reference to that in the main page. Fig (talk) 09:52, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Eyewitness reports are noted for being unreliable, or a power of suggestion that the mind 'remembers' - unless a scientific body reports that a heat flash could be felt, this is not Reliably Sourced information. The brightness was brighter than the RISING sun on the horizon, it's important to be specific. HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:00, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We can certainly state that people reported feeling a flash of heat - that's not a scientific finding, it's an eyewitness report. It's quite credible that people felt a heat flash. There were similar reports from the Tunguska event; one eyewitness said: "I was sitting in the porch of the house at the trading station of Vadecara at breakfast time...when suddenly in the north...the sky was split in two and high above the forest the whole northern part of the sky appeared to be covered with fire. At that moment I felt great heat as if my shirt had caught fire; this heat came from the north side." [4] The temperature of the Tunguska explosion has been estimated at up to 30 million degrees Fahrenheit (16.6 million Kelvin) with the surface temperature of the bolide at several thousand Fahrenheit/Kelvin. That's significantly hotter than the surface of the sun, so it's no wonder that people felt heat radiating from it. Prioryman (talk) 22:17, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The request was for "any info", not for a scientific finding. The eyewitness statements cannot be discounted since they do support the science behind light and/or heat radiation. We know that there was an enormous amount of radiated light released when the meteor broke up, which is evidenced on all the videos made of the event. During the explosion an equally enormous amount of heat would also have been released, a large amount of it in the infra-red spectrum. An explosion with all the heat produced by an estimated 500 kiloton blast of TNT. Since radiated heat always travels at roughly the speed of light then anyone within direct line of sight to the event would have felt a sudden increase in air temperature as the meteor flared up and disintegrated. Anyone who has witnessed a large fireball from a distance will tell you that they felt the heat coming from the fireball while it remained in view. 1.178.33.170 (talk) 03:20, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Meteorite?

There was fragments which made it to the surface. So should it be called a Meteorite?--✯Earth100✯ (talk✉) 06:06, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The event was a Meteor. The fragments are Meteorites. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 06:16, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Chebarkul meteorite now gathers all the information about the meteorite. --Tobias1984 (talk) 10:44, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
At that article I wrote: "By its own admission, this is about one tiny piece and named by a proposed name for that one tiny piece. Currently this violates wp:notability and I tend to think that this should not currently be a separate article." North8000 (talk) 16:30, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The consensus is that it should exist: Talk:Chebarkul meteorite#Should this article exist? -- Kheider (talk) 17:30, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the discussions were supporting an article about the overall thing, not just the one little piece. Which I think would be fine. And the first sentence was changed accordingly. North8000 (talk) 20:23, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

===== The term "bolide" rather than "meteor" seems more accurate to describe the object passing through the atmosphere (a "meteor" usually being around the size of a grain of sand, or a little larger, and generating but a quick trail of light far above). "Meteorites" are the fragments that survived to reach the earth's surface. 75.95.173.67 (talk) 21:31, 18 February 2013 (UTC) [ It appears someone else already noted this issue below, and also correctly noted that the term "superbolide" may apply. ] 75.95.173.67 (talk) 21:34, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Meteoroid-->Meteor-->Meteorite - i.e., space, atmosphere, ground - what you describe is true that the vast majority are very small, but every once in a while we get a big one. The specialty categories fall under these general headings.HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:10, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

==== Not sure where best to mention this, but the article (and much of the media) incorrectly refer to the object as striking Earth -- For example, in the section entitled Damage and Injuries, a sentence begins with "The Chelyabinsk meteor is thought to be the biggest space object to hit Earth since....." If the object really had struck the planet surface, there would be a very large impact crater (and far more destruction than actually occurred). Instead, the object disintegrated in the planet's atmosphere (probably pancaking due to the enormous pressure differential on the leading and trailing edges, plus the heat buildup). Only a few small fragments actually reached the ground. The damage resulted from the shock wave from the air burst, hypersonic boom, etc. Must be a better way of phrasing what transpired than saying that it is "the biggest space object to hit Earth...." 75.95.173.67 (talk) 21:51, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The question is is the atmosphere part of "earth" it dosn't appear the phrase "earth's surface" is used so i would say "striking Earth" is accurate. CombatWombat42 (talk) 21:57, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the UK, the Daily Mail says (quote) "The 100,000 tonne rock, measuring around 55 feet in diameter, created a huge hole in a frozen lake when it crashed into the ground."
The state of journalism in the UK is abysmal. -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 21:12, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's not so much a problem with the state of British journalism as with standards at the Daily Fail which is, as you say, abysmal. Prioryman (talk) 22:28, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead Sentence

None of our sources says meteoroid. If that edit is repeated without sources and consensus I will report it as edit warring. μηδείς (talk) 16:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Before it encountered our atmosphere is was an asteroid not a meteoroid, it was 17 metres wide. Rubin & Grossman (2010) [5] wrote "However, object 2008 TC3, which dropped fragments of the anomalous ureilite Almahata Sitta in northern Sudan on October 7, 2008, was considered to be an asteroid (Jenniskens et al. 2009) despite the fact that its diameter was 4.1 ± 0.3 m." They propose a meteoroid is "... a 10-μm to 1-m-size natural solid object moving in interplanetary space." --Diamonddavej (talk) 16:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I fully understand the rationale, the object was not a meteor in space. I happen to think keeping meteor but changing the verb from entered to appeared is a better solution--the asteroid/meteoroid stuff is just a little too complex for the lead sentence itself. μηδείς (talk) 16:55, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Meteors are shooting stars below Mag -4, above Mag -4 it's officially termed a Fireball (a brighter than any planet). There are also unofficial terms, Bolide for fireballs between Mag -14 to -17 and Superbolides for fireballs above Mag -17. The Russia event was brighter than the Sun, > Mag -26, so it must be called a Fireball (or a Superbolide). --Diamonddavej (talk) 17:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'd plump for Megabolide myself... Prioryman (talk) 20:56, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Arguments here are irrelevant. We go by reliable sources, not arguments and editorial opinions. I tried a compromise mentioning bolide, asteroid and meteor. That was reverted by an editor who apparently didn't even read the second sentence of the article.[6] I have warned him as already having violated 4RR if not 5RR. I suggest other editors here look at what I have done and support it, or we could just go back to meteor as the sources say. μηδείς (talk) 06:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding my supposed edit warring, you appear to be unaware of the following (all from WP:Edit warring): "A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert." Also: "Reverting obvious vandalism" is "not counted as reverts for the purposes of 3RR" (one of my reverts). Also, "Considerable leeway is also given to editors reverting to maintain the quality of a featured article while it appears on the main page." Your accusation that I engaged in edit warring is nonsense.
Also, I did read (and edit) the second sentence. The current version is problematic; it suggests that the object did not become a fireball until it exploded, which is misleading. It became a fireball as soon as it attained the requisite level of luminosity. "Fireball" is the most accurate term for the object as it was under observation, and it would be appropriate to include it in the opening sentence. WolfmanSF (talk) 10:39, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here is NASA's official explanation as to the differences between an asteroid, comet, meteoroid, meteor and meteorite... "In space, a large rocky body in orbit about the Sun is referred to as an asteroid or minor planet whereas much smaller particles in orbit about the Sun are referred to as meteoroids. Once a meteoroid enters the Earth's atmosphere and vaporizes, it becomes a meteor (i.e., shooting star). If a small asteroid or large meteoroid survives its fiery passage through the Earth's atmosphere and lands upon the Earth's surface, it is then called a meteorite. Cometary debris is the source of most small meteoroid particles. Many comets generate meteoroid streams when their icy cometary nuclei pass near the Sun and release the dust particles that were once embedded in the cometary ices. These meteoroid particles then follow in the wake of the parent comet. Collisions between asteroids in space create smaller asteroidal fragments and these fragments are the sources of most meteorites that have struck the Earth's surface." The original source for this quote can be found here. 1.178.161.116 (talk) 06:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A Fireball is bright meteor. An air burst is the destruction of said meteor/asteroid. After the air burst, remains of the asteroid will enter dark flight. -- Kheider (talk) 11:02, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I support using asteroid instead of meteoroid here. It is simply too large to be considered a meteoroid (traditionally up to 10 meters). Svmich (talk) 13:53, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I too support the use of asteroid instead of meteor or meteoroid in the leading sentence; meteoroid is incorrect, per scientific nomenclature. -BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:11, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What do the expert SOURCES call it? It matters not what our opinions are. WP:VERIFIABILITY, NOT TRUTH. On the other hand, if the scientists determine what to officially call it, they got it right. :-) HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:14, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A meteoroid is defined as a small asteroid up to 1 meter in diameter. (Source: Rubin, Alan E.; Grossman, Jeffrey N. (2010). "Meteorite and meteoroid: New comprehensive definitions". Meteoritics & Planetary Science. 45 (1): 114–122. Bibcode:2010M&PS...45..114R. doi:10.1111/j.1945-5100.2009.01009.x. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help))
NASA's explanation fails to say what an asteroid breaking up within the atmosphere is called, only that the end product is a meteorite. Out in space, an object may be a meteoroid, asteroid, comet, or minor planet depending both on size and composition. There seems to be no single official upper limit for the size of a meteoroid; various places quote 1 cm, 10 cm or 1 metre. In the atmosphere the streak of light emitted from the former meteoroid or asteroid is called a meteor, fireball or bolide depending on brightness. The bits found on the ground are meteorites. -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 17:37, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Leade: Meteor, asteroid vs. meteoroid

In addition of the low-grade edit warring, there are about 4 distinct threads in this large talk page where we are discussing the use of the words asteroid, meteor vs. meteoroid in the leading sentence:

Please, let's reach a rational consensus under a single thread. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:37, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Airburst update

Here is an airburst update from the Minor Planet Center on Twitter quoting Lindley Johnson: L. Johnson Russian Airburst Update: ~17m in size, 6400-7700 tonnes, ~470kT TNT explosion at 10-20km altitude, 18km/s speed. Ex-Apollo NEO. -- Kheider (talk) 16:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good info! So it looks like NASA's original 7,000 ton estimate was more accurate than the 10,000 ton estimate. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:23, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Russian Fireball Largest Ever Detected by CTBTO’s Infrasound Sensors (The blast was detected by 17 infrasound stations in the CTBTO’s network) -- Kheider (talk) 00:58, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

KEF-2013 = Krasnoyarsk Economic Forum 2013

We have only one news source in English that mentions KEF-2013 as a designation for the meteor. This turns out to be a translation error. The Russian news sources show that on Feb 15, President Medvedev was speaking at the Krasnoyarsk Economic Forum 2013. The "designation" has nothing to do with the meteor. μηδείς (talk) 16:48, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Done -Thanks! I removed it. BatteryIncluded (talk) 16:49, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much! I will remove any references I have made as well. ---Radical Mallard (talk) 18:15, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There are indeed no sources for КЭФ-2013 (transaltion: KEF-2013) being a designation for the meteor, which means it should be removed, but there do not appear to be any citations establishing that it is the Krasnoyarsk Economic Forum 2013 instead of coincidentally having the same three letters. It's certainly plausible, but the above source says that КЭФ-2013 is in the Krasnoyarsk Krai, not the Chelyabinsk Oblast. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:47, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The reference was: "PM Medvedev Says Russian Meteorite KEF-2013 Shows 'Entire Planet Vulnerable'. Newsroom America. 15 February 2013. Retrieved 15 February 2013." It has been removed. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 18:07, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How much speed was due to orbit around Sun and how much from Earth's gravity

I heard back from the NASA meteor expert, and he says that about 14 of the 18 km/sec speed of the Russian meteor was from its orbit around the Sun - the rest from gravitational attraction from the Earth. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:10, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's correct. It's an easy calculation (just use energy conservation): 14^2=18^2-11^2 (approximately; where 11 stands for the escape velocity from earth, thus 11km/s). By the way, I tried to find some more information on the meteor orbit, velocities, relative velocities etc., but found little. From the orbit picture from NASA one can calculate some velocities. But e.g. the inclination of the orbit (to the ecliptic) is not given, neither some rough idea of errors. A bit strange and frustrating, as the experts of course know these things (e.g. NASA who made this picture). Greetings, 62.203.239.235 (talk) 12:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. For clarification: the 14km/s would be the velocity relative to earth (before coming too close). I estimated the orbital velocity (at that point of the orbit) from the NASA picture (ignoring the orbit inclination which was not given) at roughly 35km/s, thus a bit more than earth (about 30km/s). The relative velocity (the 14km/s) seems to have been mostly radial (from the sun). (When striking the atmosphere the meteorite still very roughly came from the direction of the sun, actually east of it.) So much for my "back of the envelope" calculations ;-) Greetings, 62.203.239.235 (talk) 12:49, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I found orbital data here:

Anyhow, a few days ago (in the archives) there was discussion about whether the velocity was primarily from the orbit of the object around the Sun or from it falling to Earth. Most of it (approx. 78%) was from its orbit around the Sun. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 16:21, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, one can say that most of the relative velocity (relative to earth) was there before it got very close to earth. But note that things are not additive, you can't say that 22% came from attraction by earth. (What's additive is the square of velocities.) Still, also most of the kinetic energy was there before close approach. Thank you for the link to the orbital elements. So it seems that the inclination is not large (4 degrees). The shape of the ellipse is similar to NASA's, but the aphelion would be further away (NASA's picture says about 2.25). Greetings, 62.203.239.235 (talk) 16:43, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A number of Asteroids smaller than 17 metres are known

I don't like this sentence in the summary, "The asteroid responsible for the meteor was significantly smaller than objects that are tracked through current efforts by space object scientists". However, several asteroids smaller then 17 metres have been detected e.g. 2008 TC3 was only 4.1 metres wide. Here's a list [9] of past close approaches with Near Earth Objects, 16 of 23 were <17 metres. --Diamonddavej (talk) 01:49, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I brought this up here also. But somebody whisked my point away along with all other discussion into some archive, where it can't be discussed any further. I take this as a friendly invitation to edit the article and change the absurd statement, which I'm now doing. Friendly Person (talk) 03:10, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It did come at sunrise from the sunlit side, and is only 17 meters. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:10, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It was an Asteroid

Some editors mistakenly believe the object that entered the atmosphere was a "meteor" e.g. this non-sensical sentence "The Chelyabinsk meteor is the largest object known to have entered the Earth's atmosphere since the 1908 Tunguska event". A meteor is the light emitted by a meteoroid (or comet or asteroid) as it burns up in the atmosphere. It was not the solid object, and it was most likely a small asteroid, as NASA says it was 17 metres wide. These are not flexible terms, they are officially recognised and defined used by scientists. Just because the media misuses them we should not, lest we start calling tsunamis tidal waves. --Diamonddavej (talk) 03:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[ http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meteor ]
meteor
noun
Astronomy.
1a: a meteoroid that has entered the earth's atmosphere.
1b: a transient fiery streak in the sky produced by a meteoroid passing through the earth's atmosphere; a shooting star or bolide.
2: any person or object that moves, progresses, becomes famous, etc., with spectacular speed.

[ http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/meteor ]
Definition of meteor
noun
a small body of matter from outer space that enters the earth’s atmosphere, becoming incandescent as a result of friction and appearing as a streak of light.
Origin:
mid 16th century (denoting any atmospheric phenomenon): from modern Latin meteorum, from Greek meteōron, neuter (used as a noun) of meteōros 'lofty'

[ http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meteor ]
meteor
1: an atmospheric phenomenon (as lightning or a snowfall)
2a : any of the small particles of matter in the solar system that are directly observable only by their incandescence from frictional heating on entry into the atmosphere
2b : the streak of light produced by the passage of a meteor
--Guy Macon (talk) 05:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Asteroid completely fallen into dust? Blah
Meteoroid - Meteor (Bolide) - Meteorite
Hi. Small animation for terms. If there are mistakes in english, i'd be glad to correct file. Meteor126 from ru.wiki (and from Moscow planetarium) 95.220.7.81 (talk) 06:32, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
кг/ам. Не умеешь — не рисуй, ничего не читаемо
Я ни на что не претендую. Не художник. Если кто-нибудь сделает подобное - только буду за. А визуализация такая нужна, иначе много путаницы в головах людей. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.220.0.119 (talk) 08:55, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The animation you provided nicely shows the different meanings of the terms meteoroid, meteor and meteorite used in meteoritics. A meteor can refer in everyday English to a solid object that's burning up in Earth's atmosphere, but it is not scientifically correct, a meteor (or Bolide if bright) is the luminous tail of a meteoroid. A meteoroid (or asteroid if large enough) entered the Earth's atmosphere, it wasn't a meteor that arrived from space. --Diamonddavej (talk) 08:22, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. In Russian they usually also say meteor and bolide for solid object. But really it's luminescence. Meteor126. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.220.7.81 (talk) 10:21, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Funnily enough the sentence does make 'non-technical' sense at a quick glance, but you are 100% correct that it does not accurately define a meteor. Possible ways to rephrase the sentence...
"The Chelyabinsk meteor was caused by the largest object known to have entered the Earth's atmosphere since the 1908 Tunguska event."
"The Chelyabinsk event was caused by the largest object known to have entered the Earth's atmosphere since the 1908 Tunguska event." 1.178.33.170 (talk) 13:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some definitions of a meteor says 0-10 meters in size. However, even NASA calls it a meteor! http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/asteroids/news/asteroid20130215.html /Tomioni — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.63.248.183 (talk) 11:28, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Older (1995) definitions define a Meteoroid as less than 10 meters. But a meteor does not cause a meteor. -- Kheider (talk) 13:04, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The influence of Hollywood may have played a part with disaster movies such as 'Meteor' and 'Deep Impact', where the inference is that the object approaching earth is the meteor. 1.178.33.170 (talk) 13:16, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
2008 TC3 was only 4.1 metres wide and 80 tons before it entered the Earth's atmosphere over Sudan in 2008, it was spotted 20 hours before it impacted. It's called an Asteroid in scientific articles. --Diamonddavej (talk) 08:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

Is it time to change the article title to Chelyabinsk meteor? --PlanetEditor (talk) 05:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC) See below. --PlanetEditor (talk) 01:48, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: A better and more appropriate title is Chelyabinsk meteor event. --PlanetEditor (talk) 13:05, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support The name will do for the time being. It will likely be called the Chelyabinsk event or similar in due course amongst the scientific community, as this name will encompass the entire event from meteoroid, meteor, blast wave and meteorite recovery etc. --Diamonddavej (talk) 08:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but you just can't use news searches for current events like that. Unlike Wikipedia, current news reports have an implicit year - anything you search for prefixed by its year will get few to no hits. Prefixing or suffixing a year is only done when you're referencing past events (e.g. "The 2008 Examplian Election") or when you're naming something for archival use - like on Wikipedia. Kolbasz (talk) 03:50, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it was a meteor - that's basic astronomy. When it was in the atmosphere burning up, it's a meteor. The other stuff are sub-categories. HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, it's hardly the only name tied to the event. As pointed out below, Chelyabinsk is not even the main location of the event. It occurred throughout a wide area, not restricted to the city even if the bolide impact zone was located in the city. - M0rphzone (talk) 00:27, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I pointed out "that town is forever linked to this event," never saying its name should be used for title. I simply suggested that the article title should be treated accordinly. Whatever name you guys choose, the matter here shouldn't be just the choosing of a name. This article is part of many others and definitely, is not a matter of preference. Besides, I have seen many articles change names overnight. Krenakarore TK 19:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'd suggest the article be named 2013 Chelyabinsk Meteor Event or 2013 Chelyabinsk Fireball Event or something similar, with a redirect from 2013 Russian meteor event redirecting here, unless there is another event over Russia this year. It wasn't a meteor strike, only a blast wave that was focused/combined with shock wave and sonic boom that caused the damage.Wzrd1 (talk) 20:59, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose 2013 Russian meteor event is a pretty good interim title, and Chelyabinsk meteor is not better as an interim title. Rationale: 1) this is not a local event that is entirely, or even mostly, limited to Chelyabinsk; 2) the scientists are already debating on what to call the thing, but "meteor" is not the most usual title for this sort of large chunk that is an air bursting bollide or superbollide. For example, the guy who is the author of the asteroid "bible", Dr. John S. Lewis, a professor of planetary science, had this to say about the Russian "meteor":

This was not a meteor. A meteor is an optical phenomenon, a flash of light seen in the sky when a piece of cosmic debris (usually dust- or sand grain-sized) enters Earth’s upper atmosphere, converts its huge kinetic energy into heat, and “burns up” (vaporizes), usually at an altitude of at least 100 km. The Chelyabinsk object was a fragment of asteroidal or cometary origin, probably several meters in diameter, properly called a “meteoroid” or, more loosely, a “small asteroid”. A brilliant fireball seen in the atmosphere is called a bolide. Some bolides, caused by entry of large pieces of hard rock, drop meteorites on the ground: a meteorite is a rock of cosmic origin that reaches the ground in macroscopic pieces (not dust or vapor). (link here)

So I oppose the proposed change for those two reasons. N2e (talk) 22:55, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • When a meteoroid enters atmosphere, it is called meteor. And meteor events are generally named according to the place where they impact. --PlanetEditor (talk) 01:46, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Event wasn't localized just to Chelyabinsk (a better, more localized version instead of "Russian meteor/event" would be "Urals meteor/event"), and there's absolutely no consensus in the media or other places to call it the "Chelyabinsk meteor/event". Looking at Google hits, "Russian meteor" beats the other ones hands down - "Chelyabinsk meteor" gets 97,400 hits, "Chelyabinsk event" 7,240, but "Russian meteor" together with qualifiers such as "Chelyabinsk" and "2013" get tens of millions of hits (e.g. "russian meteor" "chelyabinsk" "2013" gets 27,700,000 hits. Kolbasz (talk) 03:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm opposed to the word "event" in the title. It's too woosy. A thousand people injured. That's an emergency, catastrophe, calamity. An EVENT is a Celine Dion concert, or Grampa's bed collapsing in the middle of the night and the ensuing ruckus so complex only Thurber can explain it. The term "event" doesn't carry the connotation of a terrible disaster, cataclysm, holocaust, tragedy, 'fell stroke', bane, or woe. It is a more friendly kind of thing, like a misadventure, upset, debacle, or fiasco. Friendly Person (talk) 15:00, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think event is fine, there were no deaths (I know of) some windows broke, a single roof collapsed, it is not an "emergency, catastrophe, calamity" nor do the words " terrible disaster, cataclysm, holocaust, tragedy, 'fell stroke', bane, or woe" describe the event. CombatWombat42 (talk) 15:10, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support "Chelyabinsk meteor event" "Chelyabinsk" (assuming / conditional on that that is the name that caught on ) is more specific than "Russian", "meteor" is a common name for this, and event is a good noun to encompass it all (effects etc.) North8000 (talk) 15:15, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly opposed to event, it's against MOS and simplicity. Chelyabinsk meteor is perfectly fine
We've got 82 news sources at google calling this the "Chelyabinsk meteor" and one source, "Chessbase", (hardly a notable reliable source for such things) calling it the Chelyabinsk meteor event. μηδείς (talk) 21:23, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More events that day

DA14, and the Russian event weren't the only space rocks. Cuba, and San Francisco also had reports of fireballs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.226.66 (talk) 02:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:V. --PlanetEditor (talk) 03:04, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There was also a fairly bright event on the evening of 11 February 2013 [10][11] not too far away from the later one on 15 February 2013. These things are happening all the time. The size of the object was unusually large in the 15 February 2013 event. -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 21:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What caused the Lake Chebarkul hole

According to 2013_Russian_meteor_event#Impact, divers did not find any meteorite in the water. Then how could it be possible to form a 6 metre-wide hole? Where is the meteorite that caused this hole? --PlanetEditor (talk) 06:32, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

About 50 meteorite fragments were found around the hole, many are bits of fusion crust (melted surface of a meteorite), they are suggesting these broke off a much larger meteorite that broke the ice. It's likely buried in the mud below the lake bottom, that's why it's not yet been found. A sonar survey might help. --Diamonddavej (talk) 08:29, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the explanation. --PlanetEditor (talk) 09:02, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I guess that will probably have to wait until spring. Should be interesting to see what they find, though. Prioryman (talk) 21:48, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

500,000 km apart?

Reference #75 is used to say that Phil Plait said that this and 2012 DA14 were nearly 500,000 km apart.

  1. I don't see the 500,000 km statement in the reference.
  2. In 15 hours, the Earth travels about 1,600,000 km, the closest encounter of the two to Earth were about this distance apart. Of course, at some point in their orbits, maybe they could have been that far apart. But I don't know. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh well, there is this " At 8 kilometers per second that’s nearly half a million kilometers away from DA14", so that is where the 500,000 km comes from. But where does the 8km/sec come from? The orbital velocity of the Earth is about 30 km/sec. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:11, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
was 8 km/hour the speed of 2012 DA14 relative to the Earth? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:43, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bleeding Love Dash Cam Footage

I have replaced the link to the "Bleeding Love" dash cam video because it shows the event from just before atmospheric entry, complete with timestamps, and furthermore it seems that the article would be woefully incomplete without some of that fabled and iconic Russian wide-angle dash cam footage. (WP:ELNEVER isn't an issue inasmuch as the song's copyright holder hasn't asserted his copyright in the U.S.; the video remains up on YouTube, although from what I gather it is unavailable in Germany.) kencf0618 (talk) 01:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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