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Unsympathetic?

What is the basis for this allegation?

Heaney has made comments on Northern Ireland and expressed a distinct lack of sympathy for the Protestant Unionist community there

He's clearly unsympathetic to Unionism as a political stance. That's quite a different thing. Unless this allegation can be substantiated it should be got rid of. Palmiro | Talk 23:47, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed this allegation, as noone supported it. Palmiro | Talk 10:46, 10 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Can we please put in SOMETHING about his political inclinations, though? This is obviously important to a number of people, but more importantly than that, many of his poems have a political undertone. ~

Since the page is currently blocked and I'll undoubtedly forget to fix it later: in the opening sentence Irish is linked to. This is undesirable as Irish is a disambiguation page, so I would like it changed to [[Ireland|Irish]]. Cheers, --Commander Keane 08:44, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Derry v. Londonderry

I count seven votes for Londonderry, two votes for Derry. Even if the three IP addresses are discounted, there is 2:1 support for Londonderry. The article is now unprotected, and will remain that way unless a revert war begins. Anyone who changes Londonderry to Derry may be reverted on sight and (Note to other administrators) should be blocked for vandalism. If this does not solve the problem, then the article will be protected again. Anyone who disagrees with my determination of the consensus should file a Request for Comment. -- Essjay · Talk 22:35, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What sort of "vote" did you hold and amongst whom? Since Londonderry and Derry are both acceptable for Co. Doire in N. Ireland, the preferred usage of the subject should prevail. In this case, since Heaney is a nationalist, the usage would be "Derry". Obviously, anyone who is familiar with Ireland (except a staunch Unionist) would agree with this assessment. 9 September 2006.

Knowing the sensitivities around this issue, I thought it wise to explain a (seemingly trivial) edit. The phraseology "and therefore would call his birthplace County Derry" sounds speculative - as if we don't really know, but we just think he would - and so inappropriate for an encyclopedia. However, the link to his Nobel acceptance speech shows that he does in fact call it Co. Derry, so I am changing the text to make it factual rather than speculative. (N.B. No actual names are being changed in the article, merely the modality of the statement re. Heaney's own usage.) Vilcxjo 15:38, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I was trying to convey when I introduced that wording, but if people think that the amendment makes things clearer, fair enough. - Poetlister 17:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I just love the double standards on Wikipedia. We have some people who spent all day reverting any mention of the word "Derry" on this website, demanding that evidence be provided that Heaney uses this word to describe the county of his birth, while over on the Gregory Campbell (politician) article, the word "Londonderry" was used to describe the city of his birth since 00:45, 20 September 2005. I edited it today.
I also notice that there are plenty of people in Category:Natives of County Londonderry who should, by virtue of birth, be in [[Category::People from Derry]].--Damac 20:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Damac. I presume I'm one of the people you are referring to! As you know the agreement is that Derry for city, Londonderry for county. I stick to this (despite my personal feelings on the matter) and change Londonderry to Derry whenever I see it. Do you mean there are people born in the city that are categorised as being from the county only? Well, that's wrong obviously. Stu ’Bout ye! 20:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it's wrong. My problem is that despite categories listing people from particular places, categories which have been in existence for yonks, none of the people (and I'd include you) who are always on the lookout for "County Derry" don't seem to have a problem with well-known people Gregory Campbell (politician) being described as being born in "Londonderry" (in their article) for well over a year. As I said, it's double standards.--Damac 20:25, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Damac, I look out for when both Derry and Londonderry have been used incorrectly. And you're assuming that I, and everyone else, have seen the Campbell article before. I see what you are getting at, people ignoring policy/comprimises annoys me too, but you can't assume people have double standards. Again, please assume good faith. On the matter of miscategorisation, I've changed a few pages in the Natives of Londonderry cat. With some it's not clear whether the author is saying they are from the city or the county. Should we assume if it says Derry they are referring to the city, and not the county? Maybe someone with more local knowledge should go through each page. Stu ’Bout ye! 20:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's funny that for some reason we're supposed to accept calling the county he is from Londonderry, but the wikipedia article is about Derry, not Londonderry.

Wrong! the article about the county is County Londonderry, the article on the city is Derry. Djegan 14:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seamus has ALWAYS and will always refer to his home county as "Derry". Anyone who knows his work and his career will know this; should this article not be substantiated through Seamus' own thoughts and airings, since this is exactly why he is famous all over the world! If he referred to his county as Londonderry, then that would be his own viewpoint and acceptable. However, the fact remains that he states his county of birth as Derry. By not using Seamus' own view, Wikipedia is doing a disservice to Seamus and actually remain factually incorrect. Please use the authors own terminology Wikipedia.

Seamus Heaney was born in Derry according to the Nobel Prize website, so really are you going to argue with the Nobel Prize foundation on this one? If you don't believe me, read it for yourself; http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1995/heaney-bio.html Personally I think Heaney would espouse such an argument over a place name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.119.150 (talk) 07:10, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

WWSD (What would Seamus Do)? He'd say Derry, and the article should reflect that. The article on Seamus Deane says he attended St. Columb's in Derry - is it too much to ask for that Heaney's article say the same thing? --Editor37 (talk) 17:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. In today's Irish Times there's a two page interview with Séamus Heaney, and yes, he refers to Co Derry. Millbanks (talk) 18:29, 25 October 2008 (UTC).[reply]

Seamus Heaney always refers to the County of his birth as Derry. In the attempt to please everyone, can we change it to, County Derry/LondonDerry? or LondonDerry/Derry if some Protest....

Séamus vs. Seamus

Can anyone get an authoritive source for the spelling as Heaney uses it? Djegan

Hi, Sorry about the delay in getting back. I did a Google Images search for his name and your suspicion was correct. He signs his name without the fada so I've changed it back. http://www.soypoeta.com/imagenes/librodevisitas/heaney-seamus/firma.jpg http://www.purplehousepress.com/sig/heaney.jpg http://www.kennys.ie/News/WritersAuction/13_postscript.jpg El Gringo 15:49, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

His languages

So...he has written in English, Gaelic and Anglo-Saxon, right?

Gaudio 16:58, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Irish.--Play Brian Moore 01:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
He did a translation of Beowulf... -- the GREAT Gavini 07:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

References

Any chance of the editors here adding some more references and even citations if possible? It's a good article but definitely needs to be viewed as verifiable - references would give it that. Good work though. Cheers SeanMack 15:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from a UCD IP address

County Derry is very obviously the correct name for the entity on historic grounds and on grounds of common usage.

The name 'County Londonderry' is a silly campaign by which Wikipedia has allowed itself to be hoodwinked, the city being the only entity about which there is any genuine debate.

Also - the article 'Derry-Londonderry' seems to indicate that 'County Londonderry' is thirty miles - take a look at a map folks - northwest of Belfast; quite ridiculous.

Those so strongly inclined to argue for 'County Londonderry' might at least have checked where it was...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.1.172.138 (talk • contribs)

I would argue that Londonderry is also in common usage for the city.. and therein lies the crunch. That is why, by consensus, we agreed to name one region (the city) Derry and the other region (the county) Londonderry.
Historically, the city was renamed as Londonderry because of the input of the London Companies to the place. The county name followed suit, from what I remember (having been previously called County Coleraine). One aspect of the city has been renamed as Derry in recent years, largely due to the actions of Sinn Féin I believe.
As for the Derry-Londonderry article.. while I've not looked at it, I'm sure that many people have added their input to the article who are not "strongly inclined to argue for" County Londonderry. Therefore it is a nonsense to accuse solely those of one particular aspiration in this particular regard as being those who are guilty of some kind of error in regard to the distance between it and Belfast.
If there is such an error, I'd suggest you fix it instead of complaining about it. --Mal 07:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Don't bother.--Play Brian Moore 19:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Auto Peer Review

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Seamus Heaney is IRISH

Seamus Heaney is Irish not British, he always refered to himself as being Irish, and was an Irish nationalist.--padraig3uk 13:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's an interesting article by Fionnuala O Connor in today's Irish Times (page14). She says that in his recent "Stepping Stones", Seamus jokes that his passport "wasn't actually green" until he moved south to live in 1972. Before that he had a British passport. When he needed a passport in a hurry fifty years ago, Dublin "wasn't even thought about". But she concludes that now, "someone from Heaney's background today would unthinkingly want their first passport to be Irish". Millbanks (talk) 17:17, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry to contradict - but the facts seem clear: Seamus Heaney was born and lived his early life in the United Kingdom (ie. Northern Ireland). Self-reference has nothing to do with it, people don't choose their nationalities.

'People don't chose their nationalities?'. That's obviously a very silly comment in relation to the North of Ireland. Belfast Agreement states citizens of the North can claim Irish or British citizenship.--Play Brian Moore 19:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry but they do in the north, therefore he's Irish. Derry Boi 11:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously people have different feelings about what they call themselves. Seamus Heaney does, I believe have an Irish passport so there is not debate there. He is, of course, Northern Irish too. I think he has publicly stated that he is not British, though this doesn't mean that he techincally isn't.
Technically my arse. LEGALLY, citizens of the North have the right to claim Irish, British or both citizenships. Just because the territory is currently british occupied does not mean that the ancestral history of half the population is overwritten. you cant just stamp "british" over things that arent british. have you not learned anything from the troubles you moron? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.71.70.39 (talk) 17:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh dear, why is it that the "Oirish" brigade seems to have literacy problems - in marked contrast to Séamus Heaney? I've met Mr Heaney, and yes, he is a Nationalist and a Roman Catholic. He considers himself an Irishman but he is not anti-Protestant. He is an extremely cultured and well educated man, happy to be an expert on Anglo-Saxon and an Oxford Professor without betraying his Irish roots. He is not to be lumped in with Peter O'Toole, Shane MacGowan and others of that ilk.

As for your comment about the north of Ireland being currently "british (sic) occupied", I note that your anonymous note was written in March 2008. Precisely which British are occupying the province now? The Unionists? Millbanks (talk) 14:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

PS Have you tried contacting NALA? Millbanks (talk) 14:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As for the Irish version of his name, unless there is some source that he has himself used that version then it must be removed. NotMuchToSay 13:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this should be done in general for all "Irish names" on Wikipedia; unless there is proof that he has used that translation himself it should not be included. Demiurge 13:14, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Some of you need to look into the terms of the Good Friday Agreement Vintagekits 14:01, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Belfast Agreement is irrelevant, being a multi-party political arrangement. It has no bearing whatsoever on an encyclopedia save that an encyclopedia may include an article on it. --Mal 21:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Daily Telegraph 13/9/07 "Heaney was born into a Catholic, nationalist family in Northern Ireland - and once objected to inclusion in a book of British poets with the warning lines: 'Be advised, my passport's green/ No glass of ours was ever raised/ To toast the Queen' Cooke (talk) 11:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure that's correct, but in an edition of The Irish Times last month I saw a picture of a smiling Séamus Heaney being introduced to an equally smiling Queen Elizabeth II at a reception at Queen's University, Belfast. Whether there was a loyal toast at the subsequent lunch and whether Mr Heaney raised his glass, I don't know. I wasn't there. Millbanks (talk) 08:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the interview in today's Irish Times (see above), Séamus Heaney says that he felt more "awkward than indignant" about being included in the list of British poets. He adds that he "didn't feel like putting a spring into the nationalistic step of either side"

Citation needed for his name?

Someone put the "citation needed" tag for his Irish name. Despite the little error in spelling Séamus/Seamus, is citation really needed for his name? If so, how about the rest of the people with names other than English, like Mao Zedong and Kazem Al Saher?Jaimebienlesfruits 13:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • You can trivially verify those two names by searching Google. In contrast, there are no google results when searching for either "Séamus Ó hEighnigh" or "Séamas Ó hEighnigh". I've left a note on User talk:Derry Boi asking for a source, as this was the user who originally added it in. Demiurge 13:34, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seamus Heaney was born in an English speaking country. There are no native speakers of Irish in Northern Ireland (although there are people, including Seamus, who can speak it). The other differnce with Mao Zedong is that Seamus Heaney was Christened "Seamus Heaney". If we go down this road, why don't we give the English translation of "Bairbre de Brún"?! NotMuchToSay 18:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Firstly Séamas is perfectly acceptable, in fact Séamus is a slighly Anglicised version of Séamas.

Secondly, as for there being no native speakers of Irish in Ireland (north and south), you are completly wrong. My cousin is four and knows absolutely no English, she is a native speaker of Irish. And there are many like her as well. As for the source, thats the Irish translation of his name. Derry Boi 20:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

    • Do you have a source that he has ever used it himself? If not, it's WP:NOR. Demiurge 20:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I never said anything about no native speakers of Irish in Ireland - there are of course in the Republic. Irish died out as a language with native speakers in Northern Ireland in the 20th Century, though if you have an example of someone who is native speaker due to the current revival, then I'm not going to argue with you. But to be honest, this is all window dressing, the Irish translation of his name is not needed unless he uses it, otherwise we might as well translate every Irish person's name, including Ian Paisley. NotMuchToSay 21:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose it's just about possible for a non-native speaker of Irish to bring up a child as a (sort of) native speaker. Hugo Hamilton writes about this. Millbanks (talk) 09:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think we need to sort the Irish language thing out.

I had a look on the Irish language version of Wikipedia and it starts off:

"File a rugadh i gContae Doire in Éirinn é Seamus Justin Heaney (13 Aibreán 1939 a rugadh é). "

It doesn't mention any Irish version of his name! Now you could possibly argue that an Irish language version might be valid there (I'm undecided) but on the English language version of Wikipedia, to use a version of his name, for which there is no source (in any language) would be silly.

As Heaney is from Ulster, why don't we have a Ulster Scots version of his name?

I think that for the name of any person, if they are generally known by another name (in the same, pr any other language) that name should be quoted - either in the top of the article, or if less common, further.

Just because Heaney is Irish doesn't mean his name should be translated in the Irish 'language'. It would be the same as giving an English translation for someone with an Irish-language name.

You'll note that Barbara Brown doesn't appear anywhere on the Bairbre de Brun page.

This is not a political comment. Personally, seeing "Co Londonderry" on this page looks odd, although I recognise Wikipedia's rules. Similarly, "Derry" on the Gregory Campbell page also looks weird. NotMuchToSay 18:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation of name

Hope someone will provide (on the page of this entry, not here) phonetics for this name. I have heard "Shawmuss Hayney" (in my best attempt at phonetics) or "Shaymuss Hayney" or the same with Hayney->Heeney or the initial "S" in "Seamus" hissed instead of softened into "Sh". Thanks! Carrionluggage 00:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

His name, in the area he was born, would be pronounced something akin to "Shame-us Hee-nee". The natural way for a lot of English and Americans to pronounce his first name, might be "Shay-mus". Go with whatever flows. I can't imagine a situation whereby his surname would be pronounced "Hay-ney" to be honest. --Setanta 02:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Caveat: I've just realised that "shame" would probably be pronounced by an average Londoner as "shayme". I guess an equivalent of the first syllable would be vowels run together like this: "she-im" or "she-um". Hope that helps. --Setanta 02:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stations

This article lists "Stations" a 1975 text published by Ulsterman Publications in Heaney's bibliography. I think there might be some confusion here, as there is a poem he wrote in 1975 called "Stations of the West" and a critical essay written by someone whose name escapes me at the moment called "Stations: Seamus Heaney and the Sacred Sense of the Sensitive Self." I'm pretty sure that this article is referring to the former reference (there's also "Station Island", of course), but I'm not sure it merits inclusion, as it is a singular poem as opposed to a published collection. I'm going to remove it from the article (the Nobel Prize website doesn't list "Stations" as part of Heaney's bibliography either, for what it's worth. Also, I've been moving some of his articles to different titles (i.e. Seeing Things (Heaney) to Seeing Things (poetry)). The article can still be accessed from the original title by redirect, though. I've changed "Heaney" to "poetry" per WP:MOS. Cheers all Gaillimh 22:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There was no confusion regarding "Stations". It is a rare collection of prose poems published in pamphlet form by Ulsterman Publications with ISBN 0903048043. Heaney has included several poems from this collection in his "New Selected Poems" as well as in "Opened Ground". Tomas, 4 April 2007

Bibliography

The Poetry section of the Bibliography contains individual poems and collections of poems. I think a bibliography should mean 'books' and suggest removing entries like 'Blackberry Picking'. I suggest using the template {{cite book}}. I'll start implementing this in a few days unless persuaded otherwise. PeterGrecian 13:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am removing three items from the bibliography: "Blackberry Picking", "Mid Term Break, and "Digging". My earlier edit was reverted because I did not cite a source. Indeed, there is no source available that explicitly states that Seamus Heaney has never published a book under any one of those three titles. Nor is there a source that explicitly states that Seamus Heaney has never published a book by the name "The Belfast Jive", or "The Pendulum and the Ashfork", or "The Flaxen-Haired Robber Baron". I can't disprove the existence of anything. Suffice it to say that the OLIS Library Catalogue (http://www.lib.ox.ac.uk/olis/) has no record of any such books published under Heaney's name, which it very likely would have had if such books existed. "Blackberry Picking", "Mid Term Break, and "Digging" are, however, names of poems from Heaney's first collection, "Death of a Naturalist". The bibliography should not include the names of every major individual poem of Heaney's, but rather the books in which he has collected them. Tomas, 4 April 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.187.19 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 4 April 2007

That's the sort of thing I was hoping for, thanks (though not necessarily in so much detail). Articles are constantly being vandalised, and edits that remove text with no explanation have to be treated sceptically. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 13:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The bibliography needs attention. Is there a Wikipedia policy on what a bibliography should normally include? Heaney has had a habit of first publishing his poems individually in magazines or in small groups in pamphlets with small print runs, after which he's collected a batch of them in bound volumes published by Faber & Faber and kept in print, after which he's gathered those regular volumes and pruned them into hefty collections. I suggest that we should either organize the bibliography according to publication type or delete the pamphlets from it (with the exception of Stations, discussed above). Tomasboij 15:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My recent edits

Hi all! I saw a prompt to discuss my changes on the talk page first, so here is my explanation for changing Heaney's residence from "Londonderry" to "Derry" - he is referred to as being from Derry in the biography sections of Opened Ground and District and Circle. This leads me to believe that he considers himself a Derryman. As the subject labels himself from Derry, so should the encyclopedia article about the man follow suit. In addition, not that the Nobel Prize Committee is any sort of authority on Irish geography, his biography there indicates that he is from Derry (please see the site here). I provide this link to further support my statement that Derry is what Heaney himself identifies with. Also, as he currently resides in Dublin, I'll be adding that into the intro as well. Cheers! gaillimhConas tá tú? 05:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stating on the talk page that you are going to go against the consensus, then making such a controversial edit without waiting for a reply, is scarcely a discussion.--Poetlister 10:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I believe that you have misread my above post. I never stated that I was planning on disregarding consensus. I was simply providing my detailed, concise, and factual rationale for tweaking the intro. Also, I noticed that you reverted my entire recent contributions to the article. If you took the time to look a bit more closely into what you were reverting, you'd see that I also edited the article for diction, as well as properly formatting the references section, and also removing a bit of unsourced content per WP:BLP. As I've provided rationale for my tweaking the name, the most glaring of which is that Heaney himself identifies as a Derryman, I am going to reinstate my edits. gaillimhConas tá tú? 22:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mind you looking at the categories their truely is an excess and duplication of categories, a very good study case. Djegan 13:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category Irish poets.

I put Séamus Heaney into the Category:Irish poets, but it keeps being removes. I think it only makes sense that Séamus Heaney is categorised as an Irish poet. He is Irish, he has the right to be Irish and sees himself as Irish. There is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be listed as an Irish poet. Derry Boi 23:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anybody disputes that Heaney is an Irish poet - that's not the issue. The issue is that he is listed already as a Northern Irish poet, which is a sub-category of the Irish poets category. This makes sense given the specific Northern Irish themes in his work. Most of the poets from NI are listed in this category - only exception I can find is John Montague from Tyrone, listed only as an Irish poet, not sure why this is....
The reason here might be that Heaney belongs with a distinct sub-grouping called Northern Ireland Poets (we, and they, may argue about who exactly is inside or outside that group), but Montague has refused to be thus categorised. At a recent reading he talked about it and cited several reasons why he's regarded as outside the group, chief of which were that he pre-dates free secondary education in the NI, whereas people like Heaney went to secondary school after the introduction of free secondary education. Also he pointed out that he lived in France during his early years and has lived in the Republic, almost exclusively in County Cork, since he returned from France. Treeinthebog (talk) 11:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Can we please try and be consistent in our use of categories and try to avoid unecessary duplication and category inflation?
Rbreen 10:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He may be Irish, but he's also British. Being born in NI he is an Irishman, but that is not his nationality - his nationality is British.

Hence why you may have some trouble putting him in the Irish section, which is generally reserved for those from the ROI. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suicidal Lemming (talk • contribs) 02:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please, let's not start this again. It's perfectly fine to have both categories. Heaney says he identifies with both, in different ways. He was born in the North. His passport's green. There really is no problem with having two cats. Span (talk) 17:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if the person who made the unsigned comment above ("He may be Irish, but he's also British") is familiar with the concept of dual citizenship. It means that you can either (a) have two nationalities or (b) choose one of two available nationalities. It might be true to say that Heaney was born British but chose Irish nationality, except that the "Britishness" in that context would be regarded as an imposed nationality, a form of colonialism, if you like. It is unlikely that Northern Ireland, during Heaney's childhood, was regarded by his family as anything other than Ireland. Given that, it would have been unnecessary for the young Heaney to assert his Irish nationality. It is clear, that once he was called upon to explain how he regarded himself, he called himself Irish. But anyway, all this is a load of codswallop. 'Nationality' is a completely artificial construct, and not relevant in any way to an assessment of his work. Heaney has m,ade it quite clear that he inhabits the entire English language as a landscape, and has made strenuous efforts to inhabit Italian, Latin and Greek languages too. He is, more properly a European writer from the island of Ireland.Treeinthebog (talk) 18:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What Essjay said

Can I please remind people of what Essjay said months ago: "Anyone who changes Londonderry to Derry may be reverted on sight and (Note to other administrators) should be blocked for vandalism. If this does not solve the problem, then the article will be protected again. Anyone who disagrees with my determination of the consensus should file a Request for Comment."--Poetlister 18:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I shall now implement Essjay's ruling; if anyone objects, please contact him. I shall also (per WP:BLP) delete the unsourced statement that he lives in Dublin.--Poetlister 17:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! This comment, or "ruling", was made almost eighteen months ago and was made during an edit war after a poll where more unionists showed up than nationalists. As such, I have a hard time recognising it's applicability now. This issue isn't about unionism or nationalism, of course; it's about where Seamus Heaney lives. As he identifies as being from Derry, he is from Derry. As Heaney is Irish and has publicly identified as a Derryman, he lives in Derry. I think it's best to leave it as it is now (Londonderry), while we seek a proper venue for mediation. I am going to reinstate the bit about him living in Dublin, however (with a proper source, of course). gaillimhConas tá tú? 22:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It may have been made during an edit war, but another edit war had again broken out. The notice on the article should at the very least have made those editing the article bring their intentions to the Talk page; it's disappointing that that wasn't what was done. You grossly oversimplify the Derry/londonderry issue, incidenatlly. My personal (rather strong) preference is to call it Derry, but that's irrelevant to what we say here. I have many Indian friends who deeply dislike the name Chennai, but that's not going to change what Wikipedia calls the place, which is its official name as decided by the Indian government.

Ah well, as a southern Protestant I call it Derry, but it's a pity that this complex and contentious subject has been allowed to flood this Discussion area, which should instead be about the life and works of Séamus Heaney. On that note, please see stanza II of Station Island, "I have no mettle for the angry role...I come from County Derry" Millbanks (talk) 14:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway, I hope that the issue can be discussed here properly now. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 22:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Just a small clarification in regards to the above comments, which skew the past days' events a bit. I did leave a note on the talk page attempting to explain my rationale before making any edits here. In addition, I'm fully aware of weight that the naming issue carries, haha, so I hope you don't think that's even an issue. With regards to your bit about "official" names, I'll note that the Irish government recognises Derry as the official name. gaillimhConas tá tú? 22:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry not to have noticed your first message here — though the problem is that you didn't wait for discussion or consensus.
For all I know, the Irish government recognises "Madras" as the official name of Chennai... --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More changes to Derry/Londonderry

Gaillimh changed Londonderry to Derry in this sentence yesterday: "Despite his many travels much of his work appears to be set in rural Londonderry, the county of his childhood." I have reverted this back to Londonderry. The county is being referred to here, which in the compromise is called Londonderry. Stu ’Bout ye! 11:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, no. Heaney, a nationalist, is not referring to "Londonderry." It's been properly referenced that he identifies as being with Derry. I'm going to just remove the sentence as it appears to be a point of conflict and is original research in any case. gaillimhConas tá tú? 14:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What Heaney calls it is irrelevant, we're talking about geographical fact. There's never been a county called Derry and the agreement says Londonderry. If you want to reopen the debate on the whole issue go ahead, but it's opening a massive can of worms. But good idea on the compromise. Stu ’Bout ye! 14:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There was another botched attempt at de-Londoning Derry, and this is getting boring. I have resolved the issue. No reference at all to the county name. If somebody wishes to learn the location of the towns and cities mentioned in the article, he can consult their respective articles. Now all of you can go to war on those pages. Enjoy. Tomasboij 00:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC) That's the best idea yet. If people want to war over London/Derry, let them do it somewhere else. Monk Bretton (talk) 01:15, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

yes, Why not just take Londonderry/Derry out all together and have done since it changes every ten minutes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spanglej (talk • contribs) 14:34, 5 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Categories

Heaney has been categorized as a Gaelic poet and as an Irish Gaelic poet. Please name at least one published poem written by Heaney in the Irish language. He has published an English version of the Irish Buile Suibhne, but that doesn't make him an Irish Gaelic poet any more than publishing two versions of Sophocles has made him an Ancient Greek poet. I will remove him from these categories unless somebody protests. Tomasboij 07:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Categories removed. Again, if somebody can produce one published poem by Heaney in Irish, then please do reinstate the categories. Tomasboij 00:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Modernism

I would like to hear from whoever categorized Heaney as a Modernist in the infobox. It seems intuitively strange that he should belong to a movement that was already disintegrating by the time he was born. More importantly, the Modernists united in taking their refuge in formal experimenting in order to come to terms with technology, industry, individual alienation, frail psychology, and the horrors of war. I really don't see how it helps to classify Heaney as a kindred spirit of Apollinaire, Eliot, Woolf, and Kafka. Unless somebody can cite a source that discusses Heaney's work in relation to those or other Modernist writers, I'll remove it from the infobox. (See Modernist literature and Modernist poetry.) Tomasboij 16:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Information removed. Tomasboij 04:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"North of Ireland"

While I accept that this phrasing is meaningful to Irish nationalists, the sentence in which it is used makes no sense. I'm going to change it to "Northern Ireland", if nobody objects. --- (talk) 17:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. POV loaded term, removed. Djegan (talk) 17:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

follower

much as its an excellent poem, can i ask why all of follower is included? i think wed be better with a stanza or two from a wider range of his work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.160.246 (talk) 20:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requiem for the Croppies

I wonder why this has been given a paragraph of its own, and not, say, Station Island? Nice bit of implicit (but probably justified) Brit bashing? (I changed English to British). Millbanks (talk) 17:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. This is by no means an exceptional Heaney poem, and to give it a section to itself is totally out of proportion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.102.84.159 (talk) 14:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This poem needs an article of it's own. An article on Requiem for the Croppies could not only set about analysing what the poem may or may not mean ,
but also document the exceptional rapport received in literary journals, the press and by various politicans.It is one of the peoms published in Door into the Dark (1969)where this and other poems seem to read as if the poet himself is probing beneath the surface of things (maybe himself in a search for hidden meaning ?Heaney said "'For nearly 30 years and more I didn't read it, because I was aware that it would always have been taken as a coded IRA poem,'"Seamus Heaney has seen it all". Seamus Heaney talks to Jenny McCartney. Telegraph Media Group Limited. 2007-09-21. Retrieved 2009-03-17. 'Requiem for the Croppies' - a 1966 homage to the dead of the United Irishmen's 1798 rebellion - was a frequent choice at poetry readings until the IRA campaign rendered history freshly combustible)
*I found 721 results for a search "Seamus Heaney"+ "Requiem for the Croppies" [1]
*"Anger and nostalgia: Seamus Heaney and the ghost of the father". Eire-Ireland:Journal of Irish Studies. 2001. Retrieved 2009-03-17. ....the seeds carried in the pockets of rebels slaughtered in 1798 germinate and grow up out of their graves: trouble would hatch out in time, the poem implied. This was the sort of thing that made Paisley's paper talk of Heaney as the "well-known papist propagandist" who belonged in the "popish republic."--Stadt (talk) 19:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removed it. The article doesn't need analysis of particular poems. Monk Bretton (talk) 03:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Just take out the Derry / Londonderry reference

It's not hard to take it out altogether. "Just say father, Patrick Heaney, owned and worked a small farm of fifty acre but his real commitment was to cattle-dealing". There's no point in going back and forth on this three times a day for the next fifty years. This is an article about a poet and his poetry. It doesn't honour him. Take the reference out and keep it out. Have done with it. Spanglej (talk) 13:07, 10 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can we just put a bot reversal on it to delete any Londonderry / Derry reference? Spanglej (talk) 18:52, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone object to taking out the Derry / Londonderry reference to his father? If no response by the end of Feb let's remove it. Spanglej (talk) 19:47, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Seamus Heaney at Harvard

Just wondering why there is no mention of Seamus Heaney's appointment at Harvard University. He was a Fellow at Adams House where I ran into him repeatedly during my tenure as non-resident tutor 1990-1995, but never to speak to him at length. I recall he threatened to exert his rights and tether a goat on Cambridge Common. 75.67.254.146 (talk) 00:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's mentioned twice. Spanglej (talk) 01:58, 1 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Despite being Irish?

"... he was named one of "Britain's top 300 intellectuals" by The Observer, despite being Irish."

I'm not sure the last part of that sentence in the opening paragraph is really necessary. Whilst it seems he has asserted his right to be an Irish citizen this does not negate that he was born in what is considered a British territory. He was eligible to win a prize of British prize because he was born within British borders without any legal problems to the contrary. --93.182.146.87 (talk) 15:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed it. Span (talk) 18:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fintan O'Toole and Colm Tóibín are also on that list for some reason. Neither were "born within British borders." Dublin and Enniscorthy are nowhere near Northern Ireland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.104.109 (talk) 06:40, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More fool the Observer. Span (talk) 17:50, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been reverted by a bot to this version as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) This has been done to remove User:Accotink2's contributions as they have a history of extensive copyright violation and so it is assumed that all of their major contributions are copyright violations. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. VWBot (talk) 06:24, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

MRAI

Why is this one membership tagged on to his name, when he has been given membership of (and honours by) numerous organisations across the world? 89.101.41.216 (talk) 10:22, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ See footnote
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