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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Hahun (talk | contribs) at 10:41, 7 December 2015. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Former good article nomineeRomanians was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 6, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed

@Iryna Harpy: I would be interested in discussing reintroducing the gallery to the infobox. I do not see where anyone called it "redundant" or where this consensus to remove it is; in fact two admins reverted back to it. What is your issue now? --Steverci (talk) 23:08, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Which two 'admins' restored it? Please provide the diffs. It was, in fact, reintroduced by an IP hopper here.
I suggest that you read over this entire talk page and take a look at the article history (prior the removal of the gallery) in order to get a sense of how much edit warring had taken place over who should feature in the gallery, who is Romanian and who is not, etc. This was a tiresome editor energy and time sinkhole which concluded with consensus in this section (above). Note, also, that someone tried to reintroduce a selection of 'candidates' for a gallery here. Pay particular attention to the fact that no one wanted to even discuss it. Please also note that personal attacks are not appreciated, therefore please abstain from comments like, "What is your issue now?. Comment on content, not on the contributor. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:31, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to this statement by Cei Trei.
I have read it over, and I still don't understand what the current problem is. The person who started this whole thing (PersecutedUser) is blocked now. Cei Trei only wanted to remove a few people. Nergaal approved of almost everyone in the info box. So I don't understand the cause to remove the whole thing except for things to WP:CALM down, which they are and I now think it is an appropriate time to discuss restoring it. Your main justification for removing it was that no one was editing on the talk; well I'm here now and willing to do that. I wasn't making a personal attack, it was a blunt statement. What is it that you have a problem with for the template? Because it seems that after others got tired of discussing who should or shouldn't be in it, you took the opportunity to remove the whole thing because you don't seem to like these kinds of templates for ethnic groups. That's not really a valid excuse, so please share who you do or don't want in it and lets go from there. --Steverci (talk) 01:46, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not certain as to what you mean when you refer to 'you' (as being me as a singular entity?). Have you read through the archives? I am not alone in considering the implementation of a gallery as being redundant, particularly as it isn't a mandatory field, and has only served as a time and energy sinkhole for regular editors to have to mediate.
As regards who should or shouldn't feature in a prospective gallery, "I" have no preferences one way or the other. This is simply an article on my watchlist. What does concern me is when more time is dedicated to edit warring over who is or isn't an appropriate (or reliably sourced) member of any particular ethic group over and above improving the text content of an article.
For the moment, consensus stands at no gallery. If you wish to start a new section calling for interested parties to compile a source-based gallery, by all means do so. If, however, you intend to make executive decisions as to a gallery as being
1) appropriate, and
2) who qualifies as fitting the criteria.
I will revert to the consensus of 'no gallery'. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:BRD that you cited, just because you and someone else agreed with each other a year ago that the infobox should go, doesn't mean it will be gone forever. Hence, "Cycle. When the discussion has improved understanding, attempt a new edit that may be acceptable to all participants in the discussion."
I'll take a look at the old infobox and the problems had with certain people and make my own proposal here. I don't think anyone with dubious origin is qualified for these infoboxes, so you don't need to worry about that. --Steverci (talk) 19:41, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I for one disagree with using a gallery unless an objective criteria for inclusion is defined. Otherwise, we'll go back to revert wars or constant growth. And what's the role of the infobox gallery anyway?Anonimu (talk) 08:04, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The same role that lists like these have. To show noteworthy people. Wikipedia revolves around Wikipedia:Notability, the reader who comes here is probably more interested in famous Romanians than a random postcard. --Steverci (talk) 19:41, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are lists, not articles. None of them feature any images. If people are interested in finding out who notables are, they can go to the lists. As already noted, an image gallery isn't even a parameter in Template:Infobox ethnic group. To repeat, someone, at some point, thought it would be a terrific idea to add a gallery to one or another of the articles using this template: others ended up copying. That doesn't make it good practice or even a good idea. In fact it's been downright irritating with every IP wanting to put their favourite 'notable' into the gallery (particularly as regular editors have to go through the process of checking that the person did/does identify with that contemporary ethnic group). Even worse, edit warring breaks and article talk pages full of vitriol and senseless arguments are a common result... not just on this article. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:24, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Haven't looked at all them, and I doubt you have too, but there's List of Russian people. It's your opinion if it's a bad idea, just like it can be an opinion if removing the infobox is a bad idea. From what I've seen, such editors like that come around once in a blue moon. Even with the infobox gone, it seems someone occasionally puts the infobox back before you remove it, so this doesn't spare any edit warring. What you complain of can really apply to anything anyone can edit on this website. Personally I think ethnic groups should be pages only registered users can edit, that would probably solve the problem almost completely. If IP users messing with the template is your biggest concern, than how about after I propose an infobox without "executive decisions" that nobody has a problem with, we put it on the article and see if this concern is relevant or not. I predict it won't be, but if it becomes a problem I'll be fine with removing it again. --Steverci (talk) 17:02, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
1) We are not discussing lists here. 2) Considering that you're now POV-pushing on the Russians article, I'm hardly instilled with any good faith as to how reintroducing a gallery for this article will be tackled. The current consensus appears to have been upheld as 'no gallery'. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:26, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh? And how did you come to the conclusion consensus has been "upheld"? Wikipedia:Consensus isn't a vote, so Anonimu agreeing with you doesn't mean anything. Consensus is achieved through discussion. You seem to have this WP:ICANTHEARYOU outlook that means you don't have to justify yourself. And you evidently have no idea that someone is edit warring and making personal attacks against me on that article, while I'm being really patient with them, so don't bring up something that isn't relevant here. --Steverci (talk) 02:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WP:Consensus was reached well before you brought up the reintroduction again. No, it's not a !vote. Neither is it only deemed to have been reached through formal processes like RfCs because Wikipedia is WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY. You're merely continuously pushing your belief that WP:ITSIMPORTANT does not constitute consensus, nor even that a gallery serves an informative purpose. As regards the Russian article, in case you're unaware, I was involved with it (and other such articles) well before you started your renewed push for a gallery. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:44, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Iryna, Wikipedia:Consensus is assumed when someone makes an edit and no one reverts it. When someone reverts it, that is the moment consensus is lost. This means that it doesn't matter that two people agreed on something over a year ago, because consensus can change. So you don't get to throw a fit that no one can make edits you don't like because so and so. Considering you have reverted a collage 7 times now, it is very clear there is not a consensus against it. Considering this, your main justification for removing the collage is now null and void. You say have one will result in people fighting over who goes in it, but not having it at all results in fighting over putting it back, which you are doing a great deal of. I did not realize there was a 30 person 1-photo collage, which is good news because those are the best things to put on these pages. Changes are very rare because they become more difficult and most IPs give up when they can't figure out how to alter them. The way I see it, putting the 30 person collage up is the only way to go because it would appease everyone who both wants a collage and is afraid one will result in edit warring. Compromise for all ideas is an important part of the consensus article, and I hope you will agree with what I propose. --Steverci (talk) 02:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Try reading WP:CON again. Where did you get the impression that "When someone reverts it, that is the moment consensus is lost."? The same place where you got the two non-existent admins (something you'd copied from another comment from an inexperienced user)? Please read WP:TALKDONTREVERT, and take note that it wasn't consensus between two editors over a year ago (try reading this talk page properly), and that a single WP:BATTLEGROUND editor continuing to push the issue doesn't mean that it's time to reintroduce something dismissed as the result of protracted edit warring and, most importantly, because regular editors had enough of the only activity on this article revolving around who should be in the gallery and who should not. Sorry, but I'm not budging. The only revert made to the removal was by one user who didn't join in on the discussion regarding removing the gallery, and has since added content without showing any interest in the existence or non-existence of a gallery. Add to that the fact that I don't see any other editors even wanting to join in in supporting you on this discussion and I understand that to be an indicator of consensus. Please drop the stick; it's getting WP:TEDIOUS. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:46, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above is amusing. "we have consensus to have no gallery, we refuse to recognize any comment stating that we don't have consensus, and because there was previous drama, we refuse to discuss it any further...(but we have consensus)" Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:35, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic Romanians (Romanian Nationals) vs. Those of Romanian Citizenship and Their Descendants

As a Jew, I take issue with Jews (along with other non-Romanian peoples) being classified as Ethnic Romanians. Especially in light of Anti Semitic theories such as the Khazar Theory, I resent that Romanian Jews are classified as Vlachs and other types of Romanian (forgive my archaic wording) ethnics. The converse, I imagine, applies to Romanian ethnics in Israel.

There needs to be, I feel, a separate page for Ethnic Romanians and Non-Romanian ethnic groups in Romania. 74.103.28.81 (talk) 23:50, 16 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Romanians in Italy Numbers

These numbers keep going up and down since certain users (I will not say who) inflate them with irrelevant data just for the sake of making them look larger. The official census data from Italy in 2011 but released in December 2013 so basically the most recent data cites 800,000. However, numbers keep going up citing istat data from 2012 and 2013 which are just estimates (933,000, 1081,000). 104.254.93.198 (talk) 23:43, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I seem to remember this coming up before either here or on one of the other pages relating to demographics. I can't find anything in the talk archives, but it could well be that it's tucked away in the archives of another page.
To all intents and purposes, census statistics take precedence over any other form of statistical analysis and estimates unless there is an exceptional period of time between the instances of a census being held (Ukraine, for example, hasn't held a census since 2001 therefore, where supplementary data is warranted, RS are used accordingly). --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:19, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I've gone through the talk page properly and discovered that some of the sections had been inadvertently turned into subsections at some point. I've rectified the situation and, sure enough, found Joeyc91's WP:SPA behaviour by in October of last year recorded in the above section. Please desist from resuming your edit-warring. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:24, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Those are not estimates. ISTAT is adding the number of registered new immigrants to the 2011 census. Read the link I've posted. Joeyc91 (talk) 16:11, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

no ISTAT is not adding the number of registered new immigrants to the census. The census data was released in December 2013. Istat kept publishing its estimates until 2014 and then it went back on certain years and gave a disclaimer that in fact it over-estimated immigrant numbers. In any case, census data is still taking precedence over ISTAT estimates because it's a census. The source that you provide by the way does not say that ISTAT is adding newcomers to the already existing census numbers. Why do you just choose to erase the census data and ignore it? I don't know if you are just ignorant or if you are really trying to inflate the numbers no matter what.104.254.93.142 (talk) 22:05, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We've been through this already, Joeyc91. Please desist from your disruptive editing. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:34, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You can't even read the link I've provided to you. That's what it says. Click on Note to read it.

"La popolazione straniera residente è costituita dalle persone di cittadinanza non italiana aventi dimora abituale in Italia; viene calcolata, per ciascun comune, al 31 dicembre di ogni anno successivo al Censimento della popolazione, sommando alla popolazione straniera censita come residente nel comune, il movimento anagrafico registrato nel corso di ciascun periodo. Nel caso specifico dell’anno 2011, la popolazione al 31 dicembre del 2011 è stata calcolata con il medesimo criterio, a partire dai dati del Censimento al 9 ottobre 2011 e utilizzando il movimento anagrafico registrato nel periodo 9 ottobre - 31 dicembre 2011.

Sul sito, in una sezione dedicata, è pubblicata anche la serie pre-censuaria dei dati del bilancio demografico della popolazione straniera residente, a partire dall’anno 2002. Tra i dati relativi al periodo 1° gennaio 2002 - 8 ottobre 2011 e i successivi esiste una discontinuità nella serie storica, determinata dal XV Censimento della Popolazione. La serie storica coerente verrà determinata successivamente attraverso la ricostruzione dei bilanci del periodo intercensuario.

Per una migliore interpretazione degli eventi demografici che hanno caratterizzato il movimento della popolazione straniera residente nel corso del periodo, si richiama l'attenzione sulle poste del bilancio demografico.

Le iscrizioni si distinguono in: Iscrizioni per nascita: nati nel corso del periodo da genitori entrambi stranieri, almeno uno dei quali residente nel comune. La nascita fa riferimento alla data di registrazione dell'atto in anagrafe e non alla data effettiva dell'evento. Iscrizioni da altro comune: cittadini stranieri iscritti in anagrafe per trasferimento di residenza da un altro comune italiano. Iscrizioni dall'estero: cittadini stranieri iscritti in anagrafe per trasferimento di residenza dall'estero; Iscrizioni per altri motivi: cittadini stranieri iscritti in anagrafe per altri motivi non altrove classificabili. Le cancellazioni si distinguono in:

Cancellazioni per morte: cittadini stranieri residenti deceduti nel periodo. La morte fa riferimento alla data di registrazione dell'atto in anagrafe e non alla data effettiva dell'evento. Cancellazioni per altro comune: cittadini stranieri cancellati dall'anagrafe per trasferimento di residenza in altro comune italiano. Cancellazioni per l'estero: cittadini stranieri cancellati dall'anagrafe per trasferimento di residenza all'estero. Acquisizioni di cittadinanza italiana: individui cancellati dalle liste dei residenti di cittadinanza straniera e registrati in quelle della popolazione italiana residente; tali cancellazioni, pertanto, non influiscono sulla variazione del numero complessivo degli iscritti in anagrafe. Cancellazioni per altri motivi: cittadini stranieri cancellati dall'anagrafe per altri motivi non altrove classificabili (ad es. a seguito di definizione di procedimento di irreperibilità ordinaria, per mancato rinnovo della dichiarazione di dimora abituale a seguito di scadenza del permesso di soggiorno, ecc.)." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joeyc91 (talk • contribs) 10:02, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Romanians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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Checked Confirmed as correct. Thanks. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:08, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What happened to the gallery?

I noticed the gallery is gone for some reason. Please restore it. The Romanian language page has a gallery, use that pleasse https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom%C3%A2ni — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.116.43.205 (talk) 23:47, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please read this talk page. The gallery has been removed by WP:CONSENSUS. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:38, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't seem like consensus. People put the gallery back, they get reverted and you claim consensus? that isn't how it works, sorry.

consensus is about making a compromise that editors are happy with, until you get that agreement you do not have consensus. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of giving up and removing the gallery, why not actually do some work and find a list of images that most people can agree on? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:36, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of the removing the content, let's talk about it and see if we can find a nice compromise that can be true consensus. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 08:01, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Spacecowboy420, please see previous discussion (also check the archives). The current consensus agreed by the community is that this article shouldn't have a gallery. While consensus can change, you have to prove that through discussion, not just simple reverting. Thank you!Anonimu (talk) 09:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Of course there wasn't consensus, how can you say that consensus was agreed by the community when people are saying there should be a gallery? I understand that it caused a lot of drama to previous editors, but laziness is no excuse for avoiding the issue. If people are unwilling to discuss it, then perhaps they should edit easier articles rather than saying "we can't have a gallery because we don't want the drama involved in choosing who is shown that gallery" Spacecowboy420 (talk) 09:38, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is a pity that this article does not have a gallery, like the most articles describing ethnic groups. I think the debate should be resumed and we should make efforts to gain a consensus on the names to be included in the gallery. Hahun (talk) 12:50, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I really hope there can be some discussion. From what I've read, previous editors are refusing to discuss it. Well, if they don't discuss it, they certainly can't claim to have any consensus. It will be up to the editors who are willing to talk, to get their own consensus between them. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've proposed the return of a gallery before and am happy to once again. I've long lost count of how many editors trying to reinstate the gallery that Iryna has told there's no consensus to do so. --Steverci (talk) 17:02, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Having a gallery seems pretty much standard for this type of article, I guess there is always a little drama about who should be on that gallery, but we have so many tools available to us, there are people familiar with the article, we can request outside opinions, etc.

Right now, we have no consensus either way. Removing the gallery and bringing it back both results in reverts, so we can work here to achieve consensus. Hopefully, we can gain it with discussion, as a constant revert cycle doesn't seem like fun. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:16, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I'm being rude. Iryna, come join this discussion please. You seem to have knowledge and experience of this article, consensus seems somewhat lost right now, do you have any ideas how we could improve this article, in regards to the gallery? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:18, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A good start would be to look at the last gallery used...

File:Representative Romanians.jpg


1st row: Basarab I of Wallachia • Mircea I of Wallachia • Vlad the Impaler • John Hunyadi
2nd row: Stephen the Great • Michael the Brave • Constantin Brancoveanu • Horea
3rd row: Nicolae Balcescu • Mihai Eminescu • Marie of Romania • Ionel Bratianu
4th row: George Enescu • Constantin Brancusi • Mircea Eliade • Eugen Ionesco
5th row:Henri Coanda • George Emil Palade • Nadia Comaneci • Gheorghe Hagi

what specific problems do editors see with that gallery, and what changes would they suggest to improve it? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:22, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To me it looks too large. In the past I proposed a size of 16 photos, so four should be removed, but not the two women who should stay. Binksternet (talk) 06:38, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I like balance, so 4x4 or 5x5 seems nice. 5x5 might dwarf the article. Let's see what others think, I have no idea if they share our views on aesthetics. Once we have worked out (the easy part) of how many photos, we can move onto the hard part of who stays and who goes. I would go for a nice balance people who are well known around the world, and for those who have had some impact throughout history. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:52, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The number 20 is below average if we take into account that the galleries of European ethnic groups have 24 Bulgarians, 30 Serbs, 25 Czechs, 25 Croats, 24 Bosniaks, 25 Finns, 25 Swedes, 30 Georgians, 30 Flemish people, 30 Catalans, 25 Portuguese people, 25 Norwegians, 24 Basques and 30 Albanians. Hahun (talk) 07:03, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please first state how is the gallery supposed to help the reader and provide encyclopaedic content.Anonimu (talk) 20:23, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In the same manner as the galleries of the articles listed above help their readers. You are acting like this would be a peculiar proposal, but the reality is that this article is one of the very few exceptions where there is no gallery. Hahun (talk) 20:52, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that other crap exists doesn't mean we should pollute this article. Maybe its time to get rid of them other galleries.Anonimu (talk) 22:56, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This encyclopedia should be consistent in the content that it provides or excludes. I think you disregard a legitimate comparison between articles of the same type. Hahun (talk) 23:58, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Of course the gallery (and all other galleries/images) help the reader. You might as well ask why do newspapers and magazines have pictures. Of course if you manage to gain consensus that wikipedia should be 100% image free apart from graphs and charts, I will respect that. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:20, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I came to this page after reading this posting at the Help Desk. I have read the arguments above, and do not understand the opposition to a gallery. Other articles on ethnicities have galleries, and I have enjoyed looking at them, and have learned from them (and reacted e.g. "I'd never realised that she was Polish!"). I understand there have been problems in the past, with editors including people who are not ethnically Romanian. And I think I see why this is a particular problem in this article: some patriotic Romanians have a tendency to claim credit for things that are not really Romanian. But I am surprised that this can't be overcome. Incidentally, I see the specimen gallery above includes Marie of Romania, whose grandparents were German, English, and Russian, with no evidence of Romanian ancestry. Maproom (talk) 09:31, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

erm...yes why is Marie of Romania there? I'm not Romanian, so I'm willing to be educated, but what are the reasons for having her there? Is she someone very important to Romanians? I'm assuming that her inclusion has been previously discussed. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:43, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Marie of Romania does not have Romanian ancestry, but she was the Queen of Romania after World War I and helped to put Romania back on the track after the destruction of the war by creating diplomatic ties with other countries. She is very important to Romania. However, I am not sure if she belongs on the gallery of this article (after all, this article is not Romania, but Romanians). Gug01 (talk) 13:47, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We can't have a gallery with psycho-Vlad in it, with so many brilliant scientists, inventors and other technocrats omitted while we add Eminescu, Hagi and Nadia. And what's Horea doing there? Also, Iancu hasn't done a great deal for his ethnicity, so remove him as well. Balcescu fought the Greeks from recreating the Byzantine Empire: why is he there? Conclusion: no gallery. --Cei Trei (talk) 16:02, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are a few authors and inventors omitting that should be in there. For instance, why is Ion Agârbiceanu the Older and the Younger omitting? The Older one was an inspirational author while the younger was a scientist who invented important things. They should both be on the gallery. I am sure there are other inventors/scientists which should be there, but yes, there are quite a few people to be removed. Gug01 (talk) 13:51, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Is there anyone apart from Marie who people think does not belong on the gallery? It might be nice to get something on the page soonish, and from there it's easy to remove/add new people or just rotate the pictures on a weekly basis. Rotation of the pictures would mean that we could introduce 100s of famous Romanians to the readers, instead of just 20 or 30. We could keep everyone happy and have lots of the more obscure historical figures. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:23, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think you fail to grasp the meaning of an encyclopaedia: a reference work with a fairly stable content that helps reader quickly understand a topic. A gallery with pictures of people who may or may not have considered themselves part of that ethnic group (something almost impossible to ascertain for people who lived before the late 18th century), which moreover changes every week, may work for a personal web page or some marketing project, but its certainly not fit for an encyclopaedia.Anonimu (talk) 12:05, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As a compromise, I say we only add one photo to represent Romanians: the painting of Stephen. That will make everyone content. Well, almost everyone. --Cei Trei (talk) 01:31, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

RfC about galleries for articles like these can be found here, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#Proposal for the deletion of all the galleries of personalities from the articles about ethnic groups. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 03:28, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Anonimu, I don't fall to grasp the meaning of an encyclopedia. This is not a paper encyclopedia and it is able to be updated on a regular basis. Are you suggesting that people make an article and then sign it off as completed and not to be edited again? I think you're failing to grasp what we are capable of doing on wikipedia. Go submit a research paper to a journal and it will remain the same for eternity, don't expect that from an online encyclopedia that encourages updates. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:16, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Cei Trei, your compromise might be a good temporary solution while something more long term is arranged. Either way, it's better than no image or an edit war. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 10:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sweet, you added his portrait. Such a beautiful painting. :) --Cei Trei (talk) 11:38, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think having a male Moldavian as representative of Romanians is highly unbalanced, and moreover disrespectful, considering the latest census showed female Romanian citizens outnumber males. Consequently, I think we also need a female next to the Stephen, yet I'm undecided whether the chosen one should be Sandra Romain or Alina Plugaru. What do you think, A? 13:37, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
I think a little Mongol-Tatar boy is lost on the wide Siberian steppes. --Cei Trei (talk) 20:29, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I know nothing about the guy, I know nothing about Romanian history...but I do like old paintings, but I have no idea if the other editors will agree. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:46, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This might be considered to be original research, but my personal view is that Alina is more attractive. Besides, I'm not politically correct, I don't really mind if something is disrespectful, it's an improvement to have one photo, rather than none and an edit war. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:12, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Be bold anon, if you want to add one of those two, no one is stopping you. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:14, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There has been WP:CONSENSUS established for no gallery. Have the courtesy to read through the entire talk page and archives. Spacecowboy420 and Cei Trei, please do not edit war, only to further disrupt the article by encouraging each other to be WP:BOLD. You are handing out bad advice as Wikipedia's position is that bold is fine... but WP:RECKLESS is not. Using WP:POV images reflecting personal taste does not meet with WP:PERTINENCE. Liking old paintings and thinking them 'beautiful' does not serve anything aside from decorating the article. This in an encyclopaedic resource, not someone's personal project. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:56, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, I thought the humor in the above comments was pretty obvious. But aesthetics are important, a beautiful image is better than some blurry nasty image that is unpleasant to the eyes. And actually, I wasn't being serious when I suggested that one of those images should be added, and from the fact that neither were added, my lack of seriousness, in my comment was recognized by everyone editing this article...well apart from you. So, I shall make it clear for every - Please do not add pictures of pornographic actresses to the gallery of this article without discussion and consent, thank you. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:35, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's becoming very clear that there is certainly no consensus to have the gallery removed. If there was consensus we would not be having this discussion. I noticed the inclusion of Simona Halep, if she is included are there any better pictures? When I did a google search for images, there were some awesome pictures. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am against the inclusion of the painting of Stephen the Great of Moldavia in the infobox. It is not the most illustrative image for this topic. Hahun (talk) 11:05, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Who do you think would be better? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 12:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but you lost me on the WP:CONSENSUS bit. WP:GAMING ≠ CONSENSUS. Consensus was reached by several regular editors with proven track records. WP:CCC does not accommodate WP:SPA and various new contributors. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:37, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The irony...

of an editor who has been blocked over 10 times, reverting me and telling me not to edit war, in the edit summary of his revert... Spacecowboy420 (talk) 08:48, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not if you take into account that the last block of that editor was 5 years before you first edit on WP (though I may note that you became experienced in WP jargon uncommonly early).Anonimu (talk) 10:42, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would hope that I would learn by the first block or at most the second block (or even better, never be blocked). But we all learn at different speeds, no harm in that.
And yes, I have tried to pick up some of the terms and become familiar with the various and regulations at a fast pace. I've edited similar sites before, just not wikipedia, which helps. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:38, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Your grasp of the learning curve is quite remarkable, Spacecowboy420. So far, I see no consensus for restoring a gallery other than a few new accounts and IP WP:ILIKEIT comments. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:31, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You might consider it to be remarkable, which I will take as a compliment. However, wikipedia isn't that hard to figure out if you watch the edits made by the decent editors/admins. It's strange that you don't see any consensus for restoring the gallery apart from a few new accounts and an IP, because I didn't see you having any consensus for removing it in the first place. And, I'm sorry - I didn't realize that the opinions of new editors or IP editors were any less valid that someone who has been here since day one, please link me to that policy, so I can educate myself on the lack of worth that new editors have in comparison to someone who has been here years. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 05:58, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You can educate yourself further by learning to read talk page archives: try starting with archive 9... then you can argue about not seeing any consensus. To be on the safe side, read every archived page just to get a picture of what an energy sinkhole WP:POV arguments about who should feature in the gallery are. Better yet, get to know what WP:NOR actually means and explain to me how a reliably sourced gallery based on third party, academic sources can even exist.
Understand that your WP:ZOMBIE remark is a violation of WP:CIVIL. You've been pushing the envelope with multiple targeted remarks directed explicitly at me. Seriously, leaving a comment a couple of days ago in response to something I said in a thread back in April? But enough of trying to WP:BAIT me, as amusing as you find yourself. Discussion over. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:25, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
User:Iryna Harpy, I checked the discussion from archive 9, and there were ~4 editors that agreed to remove the gallery. Other opinions also existed, you even wrote there somewhere the following: "I'd say we have consensus for Binksternet's maximum of 16 (4 women, twelve men).", so the demand for the complete elimination of the gallery was not overwhelming at all. Also, User:PersecutedUser considered that "the debate must be carried out in a broader framework and that we should get a consensus regarding all ethnic group infoboxes, not a separate consensus for each one" and that "it is preferable to create a standard that would work everywhere.". As long as there will not be a consensus for the removal of all galleries, I think the reintroduction of the gallery should be attempted (because 90% of the ethnic groups have galleries and I don't see why this article has to be different, and I am convinced that we can find a gallery composition that would not generate edit wars). Hahun (talk) 10:25, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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