User talk:MastCell

Three years ago ...
"hope—the most important; thing in life"
	... you were recipient; no. 601 of Precious,; a prize of QAI!

Archives

(Date ranges are approximate)

Welcome to Wikipedia!

Dear MastCell: Welcome to Wikipedia, a free and open-content encyclopedia. I hope you enjoy contributing. To help get you settled in, I thought you might find the following pages useful:

Don't worry too much about being perfect. Very few of us are! Just in case you are not perfect, click here to see how you can avoid making common mistakes.

If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

Wikipedians try to follow a strict policy of never biting new users. If you are unsure of how to do something, you are welcome to ask a more experienced user such as an administrator. One last bit of advice: please sign any dicussion comment with four tildes (~~~~). The software will automatically convert this into your signature which can be altered in the "Preferences" tab at the top of the screen. I hope I have not overwhelmed you with information. If you need any help just let me know. Once again welcome to Wikipedia, and don't forget to tell us about yourself and be BOLD! -- Psy guy ^Talk 04:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Process

Hi MastCell. I responded a bit impulsively today in the heat of the moment in the thread that alleges misrepresentation of sources. I sort of wish now that I'd held off, since I really appreciate your suggestion that we get back to the process we started. I think that's a good suggestion. TimidGuy (talk) 00:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK. But since you're here, I want to ask you something. Our content on the purported health benefits of Transcendental Meditation is heavily influenced by editors affiliated with the TM movement. Do you think that raises questions about bias (either conscious or unconscious) in our coverage? I think the best practice (one that is recommended, but not demanded, by WP:COI) would be for editors with close connections to the movement to participate in talkpage discussion, but for independent, unaffiliated editors to manage the actual editing of article content.

I'm not a big fan of analogies, but let's say that our coverage of an antihypertensive drug from Merck were dominated by a small group of single-purpose accounts closely affiliated with Merck. That situation would rightly raise concerns about our ability to present accurate and unbiased medical information. I see a similar problem on the TM articles, at least as far as they intersect with medical claims. Do you?

Finally, I'm sort of disappointed in the lack of restraint shown by TM-affiliated editors. Frankly, there are a number of Wikipedia articles, both medical and biographical, which I avoid because I want to manage any potential conflicts of interest on my part. These are areas where I believe I could undoubtedly improve our coverage, but I recognize that my connections (which are not financial, but rather personal or professional) would potentially bias me. So I don't edit those articles, as a simple but healthy form of self-restraint. I sort of wish that some level of introspection would take place here so that people wouldn't need to beat the drum confrontationally about it. MastCell ^Talk 17:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting link

Thought you might be interested in following this series of articles that will be appearing this week. Don't bother reading the comments. I've read some of the earlier series, and they seemed to be bang on. Risker (talk) 18:45, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GAR input sought

Since we interacted on Ken Ham, I am reaching out to you for an opinion, as you appear to be experienced with the topics of sourcing, neutrality, extraordinary claims, and level of detail in the articles, as well as general Wikipedia policies.

It has been suggested to me by editor Coretheapple in the Discussion area of a current GA reassessment that the review be brought to the attention of a wider audience. The issues above are included in the review, so I hope there's enough of a cross-functional applicability. The article in question is Hyacinth Graf Strachwitz; no specialist knowledge is required to be able to contributed to the GAR.

I would welcome feedback or a review of the article to see if it still meets Wikipedia:Good article criteria and whether it should be retained or delisted as a Good article. Thank you and happy editing. K.e.coffman (talk) 04:57, 26 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur Kellermann Article

Hello - I noticed that you've reverted my changes on the Arthur Kellermann article. I think I may have actually misinterpreted the Edit-Revert-Discuss rule, so I intend to revert my revert pending a discussion, which I have started here, and invite you to participate in. --2601:18C:8800:4600:C0B9:4C27:3E01:D719 (talk) 20:56, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just FYI - another user has edited the article with what appears to be a compromise. I've added that language to the "research" section of the article. If you feel this isn't good enough I'm open to discussing. --2601:18C:8800:4600:3007:B672:15D7:6B1E (talk) 15:02, 16 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your script

Hello, my friend. I was discussing the registration date display under usernames that happens because of your script. Is there any way to make it show the exact time of registration, at least for new users? This would be helpful to me when doing SPI and to a lesser extent tagteam vandal work. Many thanks for any help you can offer. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 17:30, 24 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

All sorted out. Please disregard. And if this is your script I am now using, thank you!!! :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:41, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Query

Any ideas as to why admins are so reluctant to take action in the GMO topic area? People have tried asking nicely for editors to cooperate. We've had an arbcom case. We've had an RfC. We've had God-knows-how-many iterations of just about every dispute resolution venue imaginable. Yet editors still accuse each other of being industry shills on the one side or "activists" on the other, even on on the AE page itself. And after all this the only thing the admins are able to decide is a warning, as if they were dealing with newbies who had no idea of Wikipedia's standards. Presumably further misconduct will be met with a stern warning, then a that a we really mean it this time warning, and then a you better listen young man or I'll tell your father when he gets home warning, and after that...

I don't recall ever seeing anything like this. Is there something particular to this topic that makes admins especially hesitant? Or is it like this everywhere but I haven't been paying attention? Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:48, 28 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Shock Brigade Harvester Boris: I don't think it's the GMO topic area per se. I think you're seeing a sequela of the gradual loss of confident and proactive admins, particularly those with firsthand experience editing (rather than adminning) contentious topic areas. You know, like you. :)

It's not easy to impose a sanction; you have to be willing and available to defend yourself in the inevitable appeals, counter-claims, and so on that follow. The last time I sanctioned someone at WP:AE, he appealed at WP:AN (closed as unsuccessful), reverted the closure of his own appeal and kept arguing (again closed as unsuccessful), appealed on WP:AE, and then finally appealed to ArbCom at WP:ARCA (all of which were also unsuccessful). Each of those actions was completely frivolous and vexatious, but I was compelled to participate in each process and defend the sanction (which, frankly, was an even easier call than the one we're currently discussing). Who wants to spend their volunteer time dealing with that sort of bullshit? It's no wonder admins favor an endless stream of "final" warnings or unenforceable paroles rather than actually taking meaningful action.

There's also a certain level of experience and institutional memory that's been lost, which should keep us from proposing variations on civility parole. But in the end, it's the oldest story on Wikipedia: we're willing to bend over backwards, and spend dozens of hours and thousands of words, finding ways to retain or reform disruptive editors, but we won't spend 30 seconds thinking about or assisting quiet, constructive contributors. I've never understood it. If we took even a tiny fraction of the energy that was spent in trying to rehabilitate and reform (Abd|Anythingyouwant|The Devil's Advocate|Mattisse|insert incorrigibly toxic personality here), and instead spent it rewarding and facilitating good editors, we'd have a very different encyclopedia, and a very different community. MastCell ^Talk 01:16, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anythingyouwant

Hi, it's been a while--hope you're doing well. Care to shed some light on what is going on here and here? I've had no significant run-ins with this editor in the past. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 21:46, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. Now that is a loaded question, Doctor. :) Let me think about whether there's anything I could say about Anythingyouwant and his editing that is both a) honest and b) won't get me kicked off Wikipedia. Suffice to say that you're not the first person to have this sort of run-in with him. You're in excellent company. MastCell ^Talk 03:56, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, just knowing that this is part of a broader pattern is reassuring. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 18:08, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's a pattern. Incidentally, I saw that he ragequit the Trump articles, but just be aware that it's just for show. He doesn't actually mean it, and he has no intention of leaving the Trump articles. He's not capable of staying away. I'm sure he never actually un-watchlisted the article, and I'd bet he's back within a week, if he isn't already. MastCell ^Talk 19:38, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, back already. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 20:05, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

BLP clarification

Following up your comment on the Rich talk page, can you help me understand why writing that Wikileaks offered a reward for info about his murder is a BLP violation? I'm having trouble understanding the link in your comments, but I do want to understand. I appreciate your patience with me about this. Mr Ernie (talk) 20:34, 24 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that it's a BLP violation, and I don't think I said that it was. What I'm saying is that the discussion needs to take into account not only the sourcing, but also the need to avoid victimizing, or worsening the victimization of, the article subject. That's not some weird requirement that I made up; it's a fundamental part of a fundamental policy. Right now the argument to include the material is basically "it's sourced!" And that is true, but it's not enough—not in the setting a non-public figure notable only for being the victim of a crime. The discussion also needs to address whether including this well-sourced information serves a valid encyclopedic purpose, and whether that purpose outweighs the distress that its inclusion is likely to cause. I don't know the answer, but a lot of people on the talkpage are pretending this isn't an important question. That's what prompted my comment. MastCell ^Talk 04:29, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gotcha thanks for the clarification - it makes more sense now. I can understand that viewpoint. I don't think it will be re-added anytime soon. The RFC is likely to end no consensus. But it was a good opportunity for me to learn a little bit more about the fine lines in certain topics. Mr Ernie (talk) 00:54, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

AN Notice

This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Inadvertent casting of (what some interpret as) a supervote: how to fix?". Thank you. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:48, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Notification about new RFC

Because various editors have participated in a previous RFC on a closely related topic, I thought they might be interested in participating in this new RFC regarding Donald Trump. I am notifying them, and therefore am required to notify you as well.Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:50, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Precious anniversary

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:38, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:MastCell/user-rights.js

I've used this for some time, but it isn't working reliably now. I notice a notification on the page for it and that it hasn't been updated in a while. Have you had any other people with similar problems? It's probably my most useful script, so I'm disabling all kinds of stuff trying to debug this, not sure where the problem is. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:20, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Dennis Brown: Hmmm. I haven't touched that script in over 4 years, so I suspect that something has changed in the MediaWiki API or the "hooks" and that has broken the script. I haven't heard of any other problems (and it seems to be working OK for me, still), but I'm not sure how many people besides you and me actually use it. We may be the entire user base, for all I know. :) I wish I could say I'll volunteer to help you debug it, but I don't really have the time or enthusiasm for the project to bother right now. Maybe it's just the election season, but this place seems even more overrun by irony-proof hypocritical half-wits and pathological obsessives—and more depleted of sane, interesting people—than ever. MastCell ^Talk 22:15, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, don't you be going anywhere. We need more of those sane and reasonable people, not fewer. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 23:18, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I still use that script too! But yeah, I think it is out of date; it's probably this problem.

MastCell, if you're taking a break, couldn't you at least leave a clone or two behind? ;) Opabinia regalis (talk) 23:35, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I watch a lot of sci-fi, clones always look better on paper than in real life. But yes, how am I to know who is the winner at ANI if I don't know who has the most edits? ;) It really is handy for thinning problems, I don't care if someone has 3000 or 30000 edits, but often it helps to know they have 10 or 100 at a glance. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:43, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK, how about we download MastCell's brain into a supercomputer? Nothing could possibly go wrong!

There's also the more verbose User:PleaseStand/userinfo.js, though that's pretty slow-loading too. Opabinia regalis (talk) 00:08, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Other options for viewing a user's rights or edit count, at a glance:

User:Splarka/sysopdectector.js. View the user's rights by opening their user page or user talk page. Info appears in the top line of the rendered page.
Navigation popups (enabled by going into the Gadget section of Special:Preferences, and putting a checkmark next to Navigation popups). Hover over a user name and see a tooltip with their rights and edit count. EdJohnston (talk) 02:11, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That is pretty good. Funny, it doesn't show my start date, which is wrong on most places, as I got a name change in Nov 08 about the time SUL kicked in, so it shows 11-08 instead of 9-06. So not perfect, but good enough for my purposes. Thanks EdJohnston. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:38, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

1RR violation by Anythingyouwant in Trump article (what else)

This concerns the Trump article and basically Anythingyouwant removed the reference to the selective service guy stating that Trump's high lottery number was of little significance due to his medical exemption (1Y). I reverted this deletion since I believed that it was the only authoritative voice on selective service matters to be presented and further that therer had been no cogent evidence presented which refuted the fact that a 1Y classification would allow Trump to avoid the draft under any conceivable circumstances. Anything then proceeded to revert my revert, in apparent violation of 1RR, "do not restore content which has been reverted without consensus on talk page." FYI, I am particularly interested in this section of the article and feel that 1) it is buried in a section titled "Childhood and education" and 2) significant information has been deleted by Anythingyouwant and others. In July 2015, I noticed that there was absolutely no discussion of this matter (his Vietnam service or lack thereof) and wrote a paragraph describing it which remained relatively stable until 31 May 2016 when Anythingyouwant rewrote it. There was a discussion on the talk page which lead to no resolution since there appeared to be no other interest. My point in bringing this up is that Anythingyouwant seems to think that a 1 month interval makes an edit stable (which he somehow used to justify the apparent violation of 1RR) whereas he blithely rewrote a section which had been stable for close to a year. I have asked Anything to self-revert his insertion but he has refused. Your comments would be appreciated.Gaas99 (talk) 09:57, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. My comments. OK, here's my opinion:

If there's a clear 1RR violation, just take it directly to WP:ANEW. Anythingyouwant has a long history of edit-warring in service of his POV, and multiple blocks to show for it, so your report would likely be acted on quickly, as it's not exactly his first offense. Looking at the history, what I'm seeing is that he's made two reverts in about 29 hours. This is another pattern of his—waiting slightly more than 24 hours to bypass the technical 1RR requirement. He literally once reverted at 24:01, to skirt a 1RR restriction, and then complained incessantly after he was blocked for this obvious attempt to game the system. This is the kind of person you're dealing with. That said, it doesn't look like a clear-cut 1RR violation.
My reading of Anythingyouwant's record here shows a litany of tendentious, agenda-driven behavior and often-deceptive gamesmanship when it comes to pushing his POV on political topics. Also, he will never, ever, ever give up or acknowledge that consensus has gone against him. Never. He'll just keep moving the goalposts and making up non-existent policy "requirements" (like the no-footnotes-in-the-lead nonsense) or new definitions and gradations of "consensus" to try to get his way. So you have to ask yourself whether the dispute at hand is worth dealing with someone like him. (He was one, although not the only, inspiration for rule #1 in the Cynic's Guide To Wikipedia). If it's truly an important issue (say, the accuracy of medical information on a controversial topic), then maybe it's worth pursuing. If it's something picayune, like which photo of Trump to use, or how to cover his avoidance of military service, then... meh. Your call. Just be aware that there is always a cost to interacting with someone like him, whether that cost is immediately obvious or not.

Separately, you should know that although I'm an admin, I have had sufficient (and sufficiently off-putting) interactions with Anythingyouwant that I would not, under any circumstances, take administrative action with regard to him. (He's also at least once tried to use Wikipedia to disparage me under what he believes to be my real-life name and identity). All I can give you is my opinion (which I've provided above). So if you're looking for an administrative response, you can either wait for a talk-page-watching uninvolved admin to comment, or you'll have to look elsewhere. You do have my sympathy, as I've been in your situation more than once. MastCell ^Talk 19:11, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]