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Not including Roadblock or Detour Locations

I have to bring this up. Currently, we have the races' itinerearies set up so that we list each location where teams find a clue (IE, clue box), with Detour and Roadblock icons listed next to where teams received these clues. But I believe that this really skews the appearance of these tables and makes them misleading.

Let's take a look at Leg 6 of the Vietnamese race as an example. First, you see this:

  • Hoi An (Hoi An Heritage Preserving Centre) Roadblock: "Who likes to connect?"

Imagine you're a person who's never seen this race, or worse, has never seen The Amazing Race. It appears that the Roadblock takes place at the Heritage Centre. But it doesn't, it takes place at a sweing factory. But then, you see this:

  • Hoi An (Yaly Sew Factory) Detour: Make a living or Awe-inspiring

Now it looks like the Detour takes place in the sewing factory! But it doesn't, it takes place out on the Hoi An streets. It's inconsequential where teams received the Roadblock/Detour clues, the symbols should be listed next to the location they take place in.

Here's another example, from The Amazing Race Norge. On the ninth leg, you see this:

At a glance, it appears the teams went to the resevoir, performed a task there, and then went to the winery. No, this isn't true. Between these two locations, they went to the Lilydale Airport. It should be listed here. Or how about Leg 10:

On this list of locations, Hong Kong Park is completely absent, despite the Detour and, technically, the Handicap taking place there. It gives a skewed and incorrect view of the leg's itinerary.

Now I know that sometimes this won't entirely work if we don't know where the Roadblocks or Detours take place, but that's fairly uncommon. If we know where they went, it should be listed, and not mentioned after the fact in the task description below. I know I only mentioned foreign editions here, but this applies to all of the pages, including the American ones. Shadow2 (talk) 02:50, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The locations are generally listed in the prose of the section, if they are explicitly known at all. Usually Roadblocks happen at the site of the clue, anyway.—Ryulong (竜龙) 03:27, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This does not do anything to help the situation. You have simply stated what is already true. The fact is that having locations be omitted from the list like this makes it confusing to readers. We are generally conditioned to read things start to finish, not skip around the page randomly. Shadow2 (talk) 22:03, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
They are not locations of clues. There is no decent way to include the locations of Detours or Roadblocks, if they are known at all, into the way we have the list set up now. That is why we have been listing them as we have.—Ryulong (竜龙) 06:09, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I really don't see the problem with doing the following:
This fits with what you've said as well. It's a list of clues (Even though it should really be a list of locations), but the teams receive clues at Hong Kong Park after completing the Detour. Shadow2 (talk) 22:03, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is rare that we, A) know the location of the Roadblock or Detour, or B) that it is not located where they get the clue. The lists, as they are, contain the locations where they get the clues rather than every single location they need to go to. Everything else is suitably described in the prose.—Ryulong (竜龙) 19:47, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's a lot more common than you'd think, especially in foreign editions. They love to give out the Roadblock/Detour clue before teams get to the location. Shadow2 (talk) 22:03, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am still not sure if we need to include the location these tasks take place. It is just easier to treat them as we would Fast Forwards. We note where the clue was picked up and then state the location in the prose of the section.—Ryulong (竜龙) 23:11, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find myself having to repeat myself a lot in discussions like these. It's misleading to readers. We're making it look like the teams visit less locations than they actually do. The South Africa leg of Australia 1 makes it look like they go from the Game Park to Nomathamsanqa. They do not, they go to Bloukrans Bridge for the Roadblock. The Czech Republic leg makes it appear that teams proceed from the Detour to the Pit Stop at Prague Castle, but they stop at Střelecký Island first. The Poland leg doesn't include the salt mine in the list of locations. It mentions nothing of the whole CITY of Haifa in Israel. That's a long distance they travelled to. The Sri Lanka leg makes it appear that the Roadblock takes place in Ambalangoda, but it actually takes place in Colombo. Shadow2 (talk) 23:37, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is it truly misleading when we have the information you are saying is absent four lines beneath where you are proposing it should be added?—Ryulong (竜龙) 02:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, because the list is a list, so we tend to read it like a list. Shadow2 (talk) 04:16, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well the list itself is not that extensive in the first place. And there is no clean way to impliment the changes you are suggesting. If we already state in clear prose where things take place, why do we need to repeat that in the list?—Ryulong (竜龙) 04:51, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I gave you a clean way to impliment them already.
Shadow2 (talk) 05:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How exactly is this different from what's on the page now? Is there no third line? Was the Detour clue box not at Golden Bauhinia Square or something?—Ryulong (竜龙) 07:07, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, as you can see in my original post, the Detour symbol is previously listed next to the Golden Bauhinia Square, and Hong Kong Park is not listed. As I said, this gives the impression that teams did not ever visit Hong Kong Park. Shadow2 (talk) 07:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well where was the clue for the Detour picked up? If it was not at the park then it should not be listed there. It seems that Hong Kong Park is mentioned in the prose as the location the Detour takes place, and not as where the clue for said Detour was picked up and that's fine for me.—Ryulong (竜龙) 07:54, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So why are we listing the Detour by where the clue is picked up? Isn't it more important to list where it took place?Shadow2 (talk) 08:05, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not needed to list it, so long as it is mentioned. The list is of clue box locations. Not task locations.—Ryulong (竜龙) 10:34, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
See, that just seems to me to be a very lax and almost lazy response. I'm honestly wondering why we have it set up as a list of clue box locations only. What makes the clue boxes so special? The Detours and Roadblocks are the major tasks of the race, but their locations are shoved further down the page. Look, I'm trying to approach this from the view of a casual reader. Without having seen the show, they're trying to piece together and itinerary of the leg, and that gets unnecessarilly difficult when they locations are all over the page. Shadow2 (talk) 11:05, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Detours and Roadblocks are given more coverage in the prose that follows the tiny little list. It is not inherently important to add another location if it's just somewhere the clue tells them to go for a Detour.—Ryulong (竜龙) 19:55, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Are you even reading my posts? Shadow2 (talk) 21:46, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but I do not think that we need to make any change for these extremely rare instances. The lists have always been picking up clues or transit between nations/cities and I don't see a reason to add anything else to those.—Ryulong (竜龙) 01:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The reason is clarity for people who, unlike you and I, do not watch the show. And this is not extremely rare. It's quite common. Shadow2 (talk) 03:33, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are grasping at straws to assume things that no one else has assumed before because we have it all in freaking prose.—Ryulong (竜龙) 08:35, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's rich, coming from the guy who wanted to move the Fast Forward's "F" because "it was confusing". Come on, man. You're not answering some of my questions and refering to irrelevant information sometimes, making it very difficult to have a conversation with you. I KNOW it's in the prose, I'm not a blind moron. I'm saying it should be MOVED. I mean, seriously, that was quite obvious. We should have a list of the locations listed above, followed by a description of the tasks, instead of this hodgepodge mix we have right now. It doesn't change any of the information, and makes it easier and clearer for the reader to view. Is there some reason why we shouldn't move it? Is there a reason why it should simply be a list of clue boxes as opposed to a list of destinations? I'm trying to help. I'm not trying to be picky. You have to consider that this is a race. It's a linear progression of tasks from one location to another, which is why the wiki pages should be outlined in a linear fashion. You keep responding that you see "no reason" to do anything, but I've done nothing but practically bombard you with reasons.
Once again, it's just you and I dealing with this. I really would like third opinions on these kinds of things, but you and I are the only two who really care about these pages, so... If you can provide me with a legitimate reason why we shouldn't do this, then I'll back down and shut up. But just saying "Eh, I don't see why we haveta do dat" isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. Shadow2 (talk) 09:39, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think we should be making an entirely new format for over 2 dozen pages just to make sure that locations ancillary to the progression of clues (which has been the norm on these pages for a while). As far as I can tell, this is all that you are proposing be done because there are apparently rare instances where a team picks up a clue for a Detour or Roadblock and it directs them to some other location other than where they picked the clue up. I do not agree with your arguments that we should tack on this information in a means that makes it out of line with the rest of the information provided in the article. I would much rather you spend your time perhaps completely eliminating the current listing format we have, making several confusing templates obsolete, and instead convert everything into prose in a similar fashion to how the Survivor or Big Brother pages are laid out. It is not inherently necessary to have the information laid out in the manner it is now in a god awful itinerary that you think is confusing because it omits information included 3 lines down so maybe we should just provide a more concise chronological ordering of the events of each episode in an actual paragraph rather than modifying these stupid lists with the stupid templates we have to update every year because there's some new twist that just had to be thrown in.—Ryulong (竜龙) 10:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Now, do you see the problem here? Most of your posts in this discussion were dismissive, teling me to leave it alone because you didn't see reason to change. But that's not the case, is it? You do want change, you just want a lot more than I proposed. I should like to point out that I wasn't going to be expecting you to make all these changes. I would probably go do them myself. But I didn't want to have you revert a bunch of my edits and yell at me again, so I brought it up here.
Personally, I've always thought the Survivor pages were a huge messy wall-of-text, to be honest. But, then again, I'm assuming you're talking about only writing full prose for the race's route, and not what the teams did in between (Fights, conflicts, etc). If we were to do something like that, there should still be some way to make it streamlined so it's not just a big essay of words (Bolding all locations comes to my mind). You have to keep in mind that some versions like TAR Asia and the Brazilian version visited a lot of places and then did absolutely nothing when they were there. How's that gonna look? "Teams went here. Then teams went here. Then they went here." Shadow2 (talk) 15:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. For the last time, this is not a rare occurence. It happens a LOT. Shadow2 (talk) 15:39, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, since he asked for outside opinions, I think that Shadow2's suggestions are very sensible and would greatly ease the ability for a person who had not seen an episode to follow where teams went and what they did in what order. It also is a bit confusing that Miscellaneous Tasks are always listed after Detours and Roadblocks, even if they were among the first things teams had to do in a leg (see, for example, TAR2, Leg 2, where the very last task to be described begins with "At the start of the leg..."). I also don't feel that Survivor-style recaps of who fought whom to be necessary for an article of this nature. There are plenty of recap sites on the web for those who would care about what jerky thing Jonathan said to Victoria that one time. Jedzz (talk) 18:36, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

S1

Jedzz, Shadow2 is suggesting that locations that are visited, but not part of the procession of clue gathering, should be included in the bulleted list in a format that does not match the rest of the list to begin with. I do not think this will work, but I would rather see work spent on eliminating the lists, {{TAR clue}}, {{TAR travel}}, and {{TAR Captionbox}}, and instead providing a written summary of the itinerary of the episode. I will give what I envision as an example of what I would suggest be done with TAR18#Leg 6 (China → India) as the example.

At the Pit Start, teams were directed to find the Jin Fu Yi Zhan Tea Shop (金福驿站 Jīn Fú Yì Zhàn, Jin-fu Inn) where they participated in a traditional Chinese tea tasting ceremony. They drank a papaya-and-mango-infused tea that, unbeknownst to them, would be featured in their next task. After the ceremony, teams were given a brick of tea and their next clue which directed them to travel to Kolkata, India India, and once there head to Kolkata Town Hall for their next clue. Upon arriving at Kolkata Town Hall, teams were met with a Roadblock asking them "Who's ready to drink in the scenery?". One team member had to give the brick of tea, a papaya, and a mango to a tea auctioneer, and then search among several hundred tea cups for the tea they had tasted earlier in Kunming. Once they found the correct tea, the auctioneer would give them their next clue: a bottle of Snapple brand iced tea. Unknown to them, their next clue was printed under the cap, directing them to Thakur Bari in Jorasanko, and then to the Tiwari Tea Stall. At the tea stall, teams traded the Snapple bottle for their next clue: the Detour, with choices between Hindu Art and Bengali Literature. In Hindu Art, teams traveled to the Rakhal Paul and Sons statue shop where they had to paint and then dress a statue of the Hindu god Ganesha. Once it was complete, they would receive their next clue. In Bengali Literature, teams traveled to the Dey's Publishing house and picked up eight bundles of the children's book Introduction to the Bengali Alphabet. They then got into a rickshaw school bus and traveled across town to the Victoria Institution High School and College and searched the grounds for the offices of the headmistress of the primary school where they would deliver the books and receive their next clue. The Detour clues told teams to then go the Pit Stop located at the Fountain of Joy in front of the Victoria Memorial in Kolkata's Maidan.

This, I believe, makes things clearer, and eliminates the need for the bulleted list, the various specialized templates, and having to battle over which airport they travel to, which was a problem I encountered with an editor during the broadcast of U.S. season 20. Now, I understand this raises problems when teams are just told to go somewhere, pick up a clue, and they don't have to do anything there, but honestly there's no way to avoid that because in the current format it appears we may be missing information on those stops.—Ryulong (竜龙) 20:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As I said before, waaaaall of text Shadow2 (talk) 20:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's better than what's going on now, and it treats it as an actual episode summary.—Ryulong (竜龙) 21:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In my honest opinion, the current system is easier to understand than just a wall of text. --Kartoffel07 (talk) 03:03, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The current system doesn't treat all tasks as important or in the proper chronological order. And there was someone on one of the Israeli versions who decided the only order that was important was the list. If a "wall of text" isn't clear, then adding things to the bulleted lists that aren't in line with the rest of the content of the lists to begin with isn't any better.—Ryulong (竜龙) 05:49, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The current system doesn't treat all tasks as important or in the proper chronological order."
You're kidding me, right? That was the WHOLE POINT of my proposal. I wanted to PUT them in chronological order. Shadow2 (talk) 06:51, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, I meant to say "in the prose". Prose is a better way to convey information when we are talking about the events. Opposition simply because it is a "wall of text" I do not find to be well intentioned. My "wall of text" can be portioned off into separate paragraphs, which would improve the flow of reading. The lists, as they stand, do need work if we are going to keep them in the end, but I don't think simply adding more information to them is going to make things any clearer. These pages are the only ones that have a unique template on them to convey the information within. The tiny icons are not the best, and the mouseover text is probably not paid attention to.—Ryulong (竜龙) 07:22, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The lists are good, but obviously not if not accompanied by prose below. It wasn't my original intention, but I agree that we could move the Additional Tasks into chronological order somehow. The lists are good for a couple of reasons. It allows readers to quickly seek out where the Roadblocks, Detours, etc take place (or they WOULD, if said locations were included), and also shows at a glance what cities they were in, if they stayed in a city or left, how they travelled on each leg (using TAR travel). I agree about mouseover text as well. The Roadblock "hints" can and should be put in the prose. All of these things can be tweaked and adjusted, but getting rid of the lists is not the way to go. Shadow2 (talk) 22:15, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very well, but I think we can drop the travel stuff from the list (it's not important what airport, train station, etc. they leave from). But I still don't think that we need to include every location they visit in the list, particularly if they get sent off into other directions with Fast Forwards or Detours happening on two different ends of town.—Ryulong (竜龙) 22:27, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We're not going to completely eliminate the noting of airline travel. Otherwise it looks like they "poofed" from one country to the next. I also have simple solutions for Detours and Fast Forwards.
  • Melbourne (Scotch College/Aegis Park) Detour: Liten Ball or Stor Ball
...or...
  • Melbourne (Scotch College or Aegis Park) Detour: Liten Ball or Stor Ball
...or...
Shadow2 (talk) 23:10, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well we could say in the prose that they flew from one city to the other. Listing the airports is highly trivial.—Ryulong (竜龙) 23:24, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Or...
And sometimes the Airport is explicitly mentioned on the show (Example: Phil said teams had to go to the (something) airport in Punta Arenas Chile in Season 11). Also, it should still be mentioned if not all teams use the same airport (Season 4, Australia 1, etc...)Shadow2 (talk) 23:32, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Unless the airport is explicitly part of the task, I don't think we need to say which one it is, but I think simply saying they flew or took a bus or a train from one location to the next would be good. I'd still prefer converting things into prose and giving a written as well as listed summary.—Ryulong (竜龙) 01:02, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The format that people tried to impose on HaMerotz LaMillion 2 could work fine. Let me work up an example:

In the Fast Forward, which Shadow2 completely made up, teams would have to go do something.
In this Leg's Roadblock (Who is your driving force?), one team had member to rig a container truck, drive it through an obstacle course and back up to its final loading space to get their next clue.
At the Hasimta Theatre, each team member had to separately answer five questions. If the other team member's answers matched, they would receive their next clue
In this Leg's Detour, teams chose between Find Unseen and Make 13. In Find Unseen, teams used a metal detector to a search marked area for a key that would unlock a chest containing the next clue. In Make 13, teams had to play matkot, a traditional Israeli bat and ball game similar to racquet. They had to hit the ball back and forth 13 times without letting it hit the ground before they would receive their next clue.

Edit that if you want to show me other ideas. You know, ages ago, people used to put symbols for the additional tasks on the list. They were coloured @ symbols. Those didn't look very good, but the idea is sound. Since there was a full additional task at the Hasimta Theatre, there should be a symbol of sorts there. Maybe something like a footnote in superscript. Shadow2 (talk) 02:27, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No line breaks. Those are just awful. The Roadblock entry doesn't mention the prompt. And things shouldn't be bolded.—Ryulong (竜龙) 03:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just wondering, how about the locations we do not know in the detour. What will you put? Kartoffel07 (talk) 04:11, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The line breaks are to separate one task from another, which was an issue I noticed even with the current format. And why shouldn't we bold them? Why? What's wrong with that? Detours, Roadblocks and Fast Forwards are the "name-brand" tasks of the show and should be clearly identified. For Unknown Detour and Roadblock locations, we use the current format of listing the icon at the point where the clue was given. This whole proposal was all about including locations we do know. (Put in the prompt) Shadow2 (talk) 04:27, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I meant, What if you know the location of Detour choice X but don't know the location of Detour choice Y. Kartoffel07 (talk) 05:44, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MOS:BOLD says we shouldn't be bolding items like the task names. It should be blatantly clear enough from reading it. And using <br> line breaks is really deprecated. This is where an actual paragraph would suffice, instead of treating it as a list of items, again.—Ryulong (竜龙) 05:44, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The point here is that a paragraph makes it more difficult to separate the tasks from each other. This way makes it easy to see, "okay, that's the Detour. That's the Roadblock. That's something else."
Can I at least go ahead and fix up the bullet lists, as outlined above? Shadow2 (talk) 07:04, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Having clearer prose is better than what we have now. But I do not think we need to separate each task on its own separate line. And fine, make the effing list changes already.—Ryulong (竜龙) 07:07, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Kartoffel07: Yes, that is the difficult question, isn't it? Though I'm not fully pleased with it, such a case would be better suited with the Detour icon at the clue-giving location. In all truth, this was mostly about Roadblocks.
@Ryulong: Has anyone ever told you that you're impossible to work with? I'm trying to find a middle ground here, but you're shooting down everything I suggest. I'm trying to improve these things, can't you see? It's not always gonna be about what you want. I don't really like to point fingers, but you really have proclaimed yourself as the "dictator" of the TAR pages. For a while now, everything has gone entirely to your whim without anyone being able to change it otherwise. I'm sorry to say this, but you're really a terrible team player and I'm tired of dealing with you. Shadow2 (talk) 07:11, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm saying go ahead and make your proposed changes. How is that being impossible now? I'm just suggesting that we also work on the prose because it's also in dire need of improvement.—Ryulong (竜龙) 08:10, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be best to retain the "in this Roadblock teams had to travel to Place A, where teams had to..." if the lists were to be changed because it shows that going to that place was part of the Roadblock task itself. Kartoffel07 (talk) 08:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well see, here's the thing. Using the above example yet again, you would be asking me to say "Teams took a train to Haifa and...", but if that were true, then only one person would travel by train to Haifa, since only one person can do a Roadblock. Therefore, travelling to the location is not a part of the Roadblock, unless only one person goes. Shadow2 (talk) 08:08, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think this problem would be solved if we used the more indepth prose that I initially suggested. That way we already have the context of the location at hand.—Ryulong (竜龙) 08:11, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And Kartoffel, MOS:BOLD says you shouldn't be bolding a whole lot of items throughout the page. And using the <br> line breaks is deprecated on this project. If we're using prose, we should be doing so in proper paragraph form and not just adding a second set of lists to the page.—Ryulong (竜龙) 08:13, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You mean here? I was just bolding for emphasis. Kartoffel07 (talk) 08:16, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No. I mean where Shadow2 has bolded "Detour", "Fast Forward", etc.—Ryulong (竜龙) 19:32, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To clear up, I meant: (No bold whatsoever)

  • In this Roadblock (Who is your driving force?), teams had to travel to the Port of Haifa by train where one team member had to rig a container truck, drive it through an obstacle course and back up to its final loading space to get their next clue. " Kartoffel07 (talk) 08:21, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The train travel is not a part of the Roadblock. Roadblocks can only be performed by one person. All right then, I guess we'll have to keep the currently used paragraphs. Should we move the additional tasks into it? Shadow2 (talk) 09:02, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, Keep the current paragraphs. Could you please provide an example on how you wish to merge the additinal tasks and how a Leg would appear. Kartoffel07 (talk) 09:13, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I gave a perfectly fine suggestion above. Why shouldn't we use that?—Ryulong (竜龙) 09:35, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Your previous example has too much in it that would be outlined by the list. This is why I wanted to use <br> and bold, to make the prose below streamlined and easy to understand. Shadow2 (talk) 10:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The list is an outline and the paragraph would be actual prose explaining that outline. You did not streamline the prose. You just made another list.—Ryulong (竜龙) 19:32, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You know, besides it being against the Manual of Style, I don't see anything wrong with my suggestion above. Shadow2 (talk) 21:52, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It not fitting in with the manual of style is the problem.—Ryulong (竜龙) 23:19, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I concur, I am just to revert back the edits old style, no Roadblock/Detour/Fast Forward/Speed Bump locations adjacent as the clue responded. ApprenticeFan work 08:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You know, I never really agreed to this new idea as it would be really difficult to name every location where a task occurs and would cause inconsistencies as to where the icons' locations should be next to. But, do as you guys want... --Kartoffel07 (talk) 12:01, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The old method is WRONG. There is no Detour taking place at the Dubai International Airport in The Amazing Race Australia 2. (Random example) Shadow2 (talk) 11:02, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, TIME OUT!! ApprenticeFan, you can't just say "I disagree", not give any reasoning why, and then think you have the right to go and undo all of the hard work I did!! What's the matter with you people?! I spent this whole page outlining why my method for including the LOCATION next to the SYMBOL only makes logical sense, but you've just come in and said "Nope, I disagree," and that's the end of the discussion? Come on, now. Shadow2 (talk) 15:32, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Shadow, the non-American TAR versions must have different no Detour/Roadblock locations in different clue versions. I gave a replacement link of Teatermuseet i Hofteatret, which is now has an English link for placing it on the Leg 9 summary in TAR19. An additional task on the leg 8 of TAR5, "After finishing the detour, teams must take a camel and use a GPS navigation system program and guide the arrow properly to the pit stop." Also, I had found a link for BYD Auto Chinese-made car for the Leg 11 Detour in TAR6. Another one in the first half of leg 6, when Phil said on Trabant replacement "If the car would be break down, the replacement car would be provided." Ryulong relocated back the Fast Forward to the adjacent clue attached to it back in March. Randomly, in leg 6 of TAR9, neither has a roadblock nor detour took place at Isthmos Train Station at Corinth. Also there, can you place Yuhi Falls at the top of Leg 3 Race Summary in TAR18 placing (Yuhi Falls or Farm). Shadow, tell the administrators that I have my watchlists in other TAR pages and contact them to remove it. ApprenticeFan work 21:05, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm......very confused. If you have updated wikilinks or additional information for any of the tasks, then feel free to add them. If I removed any of those that you added, I'm sorry, but I was in a big rush this morning. The main point is that you should not have reverted the changes made so that Roadblock/Detour/etc symbols are listed next to the location they take place in. Shadow2 (talk) 21:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free that I should stay your edits and adding the theater in Copenhagen in en.wikilink, you will add them right now away, plus the Camel ride using a GPS to the Pit Stop in Leg 8 or TAR5 is actually an additional task, this was described by Phil on-air and it has been missing for years. Earlier on, the (Yuhi Falls or Farm) is going to be place for Leg 3 in TAR18. I'm really endangered on having my fear to see all TAR pages I visited (U.S. seasons 1-20; Australia seasons 1-2; Israel seasons 1-2). ApprenticeFan work 21:33, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Look, I gotta be honest. I have absolutely no idea what you're saying. I seriously don't mean to be racially or ethnically insensitive, but I legitimately cannot understand you. Shadow2 (talk) 22:18, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Shadow, Margham Dunes and Leg 8 pit stop in TAR5 took place in Margham, not in Dubai. The additional task in of that said leg in TAR5 is included, but will be place in that summary. Feeling to be add right now. Also, in leg 9 of TAR9, both Bully Rockhole and The Lost City located at Litchfield National Park, which is only different places, but one same park. ApprenticeFan work 22:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The latest edit on The Amazing Race 21 has User:Jwkozak91 contributions on placing the roadblock and detour locations after the decisions. It hasn't been misunderstanding on the new process just like TAR seasons and other franchises in Wikipedia pages and hasn't involving on this discussion. ApprenticeFan work 02:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Could we please decide on a concrete way on how to write these legs

It's getting really confusing. Kartoffel 07 13:31, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand how every time I make a change without discussing it, I get yelled at (usually by Ryulong) and instantly reverted. But if Ryulong, ApprenticeFan or others make changes without discussing them, then everyone just accepts them and doesn't question them. Why exactly are we moving some but not all of the Roadblock/Detour symbols before the location names exactly? Shadow2 (talk) 01:10, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Because the clue comes before traveling to those locations.—Ryulong (竜龙) 01:57, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What's your opinion on the matter, Kartoffel? Shadow2 (talk) 23:33, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Prize Money - New Season

The article lists the prize money for the upcoming season that premieres Sunday as two million dollars, but from what I've been able to glean, this apparently is only awarded if a very specific criterion is met, otherwise it's still one million. Anyone know the details on this? ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It should remain 1 mill. Irregardless of the situation, the winning team is assured $1M at the end of the race. The bonus $1M (to get to $2M) requires that that team also have been first on Leg 1 - its most a bonus than affirmed prize money. --MASEM (t) 01:46, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Got it, thanks. Fixed it on the article. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:41, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
While this is true it shouldn't be removed from the page.—Ryulong (琉竜) 04:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but for all purposes, the prize money is still only $1M. The way it is given in the table makes it look like it is $2M, which is only true in one situation. Footnotes like this should be used for the exception, not the rule. --MASEM (t) 04:22, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unaired Roadblocks

I'd like to make a point of order about unaired Roadblocks and the Roadblock tally. I believe that there is no reason we should not include unaired Roadblocks in the tally if we know a certain contestant performed them.

For example, we do not include the First Roadblock of the first season because we have footage of some teams completing it, but not all of them (We don't see Pat & Brenda or Matt & Ana completing it). However, it is my belief that, of the teams we do know, we should still include them in the tally. It's information we have, and it's information we should be communicating to the reader.

Now some of you may want to respond, "but we shouldn't do that because we want consistency. We want to keep everything balanced." or something like that. However, I would like to direct your attention to The Amazing Race en Discovery Channel 2. In this season, many teams were not shown completing the Roadblock on leg 1, and one team was not shown completing it on leg 3. And yet, we still include these Roadblocks in the tally.

So why the inconsistency? If a team is not shown completing the Roadblock, I completely understand not including them. We can't just guess. But if we do know who completed it, we should include it. It should be our mission to relay as much information as possible. If a season has unaired Roadblocks, we can still include a footnote at the top of the Roadblock tally table, saying something like "This tally may be incomplete due to an unaired Roadblock" or something similar. Or perhaps we could have some sort of superscript symbol (like *) next to any team that has an unknown.

(By the way, I'm completely obsessed with TAR and have collected a lot of data about the show, so if we decide to do this, I'll gladly be the one to update all the tables)

Shadow2 (talk) 23:20, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you can reliably source the information about these unaired roadblocks, then by all means. If not, then don't bother.—Ryulong (琉竜) 06:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Detour Proposal

Before:

After:


During the previous proposal to change how Detours are reflected in the itinerary, a comment was brought up regarding redundancy. I believe this new method will eliminate this, as we will no longer need to specify which destination each Detour takes place at in the prose. Thoughts? Shadow2 (talk) 18:25, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this will work well. We don't really refer to the names of the other tasks in the "itinerary". And prose is supposed to exist for a reason.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 19:01, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Ryulong here. And if the task locations are significantly different, that should be mentioned in the prose. (eg For "Tiles", teams traveled to Fábrica Sant'Ana to ... ; for "Miles", teams traveled to ..." --MASEM (t) 19:22, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What other tasks have names? This obviously isn't meant to eliminate the prose completely, but rather to simplify it just a bit so that we're not repeating redundant information. This method more clearly outlines which task took place where. Shadow2 (talk) 19:53, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Roadblocks technically have names.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 19:55, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not reeeeally, but it doesn't matter. The Roadblocks are fine as they are Shadow2 (talk) 20:33, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Stripped of money and belongings

Ryulong, I don't understand why you are insisting on adding the bolded phrase to the "Stripped of money and belongings" section:

In seasons five through nine, the last team to check in was stripped of all their money and were not given any money at the start of the next leg, forcing that team to literally beg for money from the local population of the city they were in for such expenses as cab, bus or train fare. In addition, from seasons seven through nine, these teams would also be forced to give up all their bags, leaving them with only the clothes on their backs and the fanny-pack teams use to carry their passports and Race documentation; this last penalty caused many teams, thinking themselves to be in last place, to wear as much clothing as possible before checking in, or in some instances wear ridiculous outfits to remain in the game.

I've been undoing it because it would not make much sense to someone who doesn't know much about the show (What kind of ridiculous outfits? How would wearing these outfits allow them to remain in the game?). But more importantly, I'm undoing it because the addition is completely wrong. Only one team (the sentence as constructed claims "many teams") ever attempted anything like this; in that case, not only were Brian & Greg not likely doing it as a legitimate race strategy (as I pointed out in the revert, they were more likely doing it to be weird, humorous, and memorable), it didn't keep them from getting eliminated.

When you twice put the phrase back into the paragraph, you "recalled" the Paolo family in Family Edition as a team that did this. You're wrong. Thinking they were in last place, the Paolos (and the Bransens, who actually were in last place) put on as much of their own clothing as they could before checking in, so that it would all be "on their back" and not taken away if the leg was non-elimination. They looked ridiculous, yes, but that's not the same as "wearing ridiculous clothing" (they were wearing normal clothing in a ridiculous fashion) and they weren't doing it "to stay in the game", they were trying to exploit a loophole about what they could keep if they weren't eliminated. This strategy ("this last penalty caused many teams, thinking themselves to be in last place, to wear as much clothing as possible before checking in") is already covered in the section. The phrase you want to add implies something completely different. Jedzz (talk) 15:17, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly recall that prior to being eliminated, one of the teams on the Family Edition wore unconventional clothing that they had with them in order to jokingly request not to be eliminated. But fine, have it your way.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 16:42, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

U-Turn/Yield votes

In every purpose on using the game of Yield and U-Turn in the entire franchise (this format is used on HaMerotz LaMillion (2, 3); The Amazing Race Australia (2) and The Amazing Race Philippines (1)), can anyone create the vote tag?

{{TAR clue|Yield|Team 1|Team 2|vote=yes}}

It will show (N teams voted for Yield team Y)

{{TAR clue|U-Turn|Team 1|Team 2|vote=yes}}

And as for the U-Turn, it will also show (N teams voted for U-Turn team Y)

See, the format will be used to stop distinguished with the regular clue tags. ApprenticeFan work 07:22, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The US Version seasons have this information in the contestant table. Is there a reason those need it outside that? --MASEM (t) 14:10, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
How are the templates currently formatted on this matter?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 15:16, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the sample from The Amazing Race Australia 2:
Leg #: 4
U-Turned: Paul & Steve
(6/9 votes)
Voter Team's Vote
Shane & Andrew Paul & Steve
Paul & Steve Sticky & Sam
Michelle & Jo Paul & Steve
Joseph & Grace Paul & Steve
Lucy & Emilia Shane & Andrew
James & Sarah Lucy & Emilia
Sticky & Sam Paul & Steve
Ross & Tarryn Paul & Steve
Kym & Donna Paul & Steve
And see, the vote table box is usage when the most number of votes get U-Turned or Yielded. ApprenticeFan work 02:35, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

New race summary format

Since Ryulong working on the new race summary section format started from The Amazing Race 25 and even thinks that both Detour, Roadblock, Additional tasks, Special tasks (Fast Forward, Intersection, Speed Bump) were merged to a bigger sentence and has more intensively on his work. When my talk page was notified about Amazing Race summaries section, here's the example from the second leg of TAR1 (without photos):

Before

In this leg's Fast Forward, a team had to whitewater raft along the treacherous rapids of the Zambezi River with Bundu Adventures. They then had to locate the Fast Forward clue. In this leg's Detour, teams chose between Near and Far. In Near, teams went to Mosi-oa-Tunya National Park to photograph three hard to find animals from a list. In Far, teams had to go to Chobe National Park to photograph a single elephant. In the first aired Roadblock of the series, one team member had to take the stairway up to the second level of the Eiffel Tower and use a ₣10 coin to operate a telescope. The teammate had to search the Parisian skyline using the telescope to spot the team's next destination, marked with a Race flag.

Additional task
  • At Mukuni village, Teams take part in a traditional welcome ceremony for honored guests. The ceremony involved meeting the village chief (who would spit on them) as well as viewing and participating a tribal dance. Teams then gave the village chief the photographs they took during the Detour, and in return received a miniature of the Eiffel Tower as the only clue to their next destination.

After

At the Pit Start, teams were informed to travel to Songwe Museum with 100 yards from the check point and were instructed about a clue to Bundu Adventures in Zambezi River. Upon arriving in Bundu Adventures, teams had to whitewater raft down to a treacherous rapids down to the Zambezi River to locate the Fast Forward clue or find the regular route info clue, which is a Detour, allowing them to choose between Near and Far. In Near, teams had to go to Mosi-oa-Tunya National Park 20 kilometres (12 mi) away and had to photograph three hard to find animals from a list. In Far, teams had to go to Chobe National Park in nearby Botswana, which was 90 kilometres (56 mi) farther and photograph a single elephant. After the Detour, teams had to send these photographs to Mukuni Village. Once there, teams had to take part in a traditional welcome ceremony for honored guests. The ceremony involved meeting the village chief (who would spit on them) as well as viewing and participating a tribal dance. Teams then gave the village chief the photographs, and they also gave a miniature model of the Eiffel Tower in Paris, their next destination, where they told to instruct for the series' first aired Roadblock, on which one team member had to take the stairway up to the second level of the Eiffel Tower and use a ₣10 coin to operate a telescope while the other team member had to search the skyline using the telescope to spot for the leg's Pit Stop, Arc de Triomphe, with a marked Race flag.

Between Fast Forward and U-Turn

Again, here's an another example from leg 9 of TAR16 where it includes the U-Turn (it was being introduced in TAR12):

Before

In the only Fast Forward of the race, one team made their way to the Singapore Flyer where they would have to climb out of one observation pod at the top of the 541-foot (165 m) Ferris wheel and then cross a ladder to the next pod over where their next clue directly to the Pit Stop was being held. For this Leg's Detour, teams chose between Pounding The Drums and Pounding The Pavement. In Pounding The Drums, teams traveled to Speakers' Corner and learned a complex drum routine for a lion dance performance. Once they had played it to their young instructor's approval, they then performed the routine with a lion dance troupe on a nearby stage for their next clue. In Pounding The Pavement, teams traveled to an open area in Rochor Road where they had to gather supplies – chairs, an umbrella, a loaf of bread, wafers, and 10 boxes of ice cream – and then find a marked ice cream cart to sell 25 Singapore-style ice cream sandwiches for S$1 a piece to receive their next clue. In this leg's Roadblock, one team member had to inspect an anchor chain by counting the number of links in the chain, while dealing with the noise created by the other workers at the port and announcements being read through a loudspeaker. When they gave the right number (521) on a clipboard to the dock manager, they would receive their next clue.

Additional tasks
  • At the Victoria Theatre and Concert Hall, teams had to find Allan Wu, host of The Amazing Race Asia, who would give them their next clue.
  • After the Detour, teams were instructed to find the U-Turn and their next clue at the intersection of their "last pit stop city" and Orchard Road. This clue sent them to Istana Park, located at the intersection of Penang Road and Orchard Road.
  • At Sentosa, teams rode the MegaZip, a 1,476-foot (450 m) long zip-line. After unharnessing from the MegaZip, teams received their next clue.

After

At the start of the leg, teams were told to travel to Kuala Lumpur by bus, and then they headed by train to Singapore. Upon arrival, teams had to head to Victoria Theatre and Concert Hall and find Allan Wu, host of The Amazing Race Asia, who would give them their next clue: a Fast Forward and the Detour. The Fast Forward required teams to head to Singapore Flyer, they would have to climb out of one observation pod at the top of the 541-foot (165 m) Ferris wheel and then cross a ladder to the next pod over where their next clue directly to the Pit Stop was being held. The Detour was a choice between Pounding The Drums or Pounding The Pavement. In Pounding The Drums, teams traveled to Speakers' Corner and learned a complex drum routine for a lion dance performance. Once they had played it to their young instructor's approval, they then performed the routine with a lion dance troupe on a nearby stage for their next clue. In Pounding The Pavement, teams traveled to an open area in Rochor Road where they had to gather supplies – chairs, an umbrella, a loaf of bread, wafers, and 10 boxes of ice cream – and then find a marked ice cream cart to sell 25 Singapore-style ice cream sandwiches for S$1 a piece to receive their next clue. The clues sent teams to Istana Park to find the U-Turn at the intersection of the "last pit stop city" between Orchard Road and Penang Road where their next clue, sending them to ASL Marine Shipyard for the Roadblock. One team member had to inspect an anchor chain by counting the number of links in the chain, while dealing with the noise created by the other workers at the port and announcements being read through a loudspeaker. When they gave the right number (521) on a clipboard to the dock manager, they would receive their next clue. The clue directed the teams to Sentosa and they rode the MegaZip, a 1,476-foot (450 m) long zip-line. After unharnessing from the MegaZip, teams received their next clue, sending them to Marina Barrage for the Pit Stop.

Continuous summaries on writing Fast Forward and Speed Bump descriptions

With the redundancy of recent changes of rewriting the whole summaries, and here is again from the 10th leg of TAR20:

Before

For their Speed Bump, Mark and Bopper had to paint a tiger's face on the belly of a Puli Kali dancer before receiving their next clue. For the Fast Forward, teams had to take part in a traditional good luck ritual: shaving their head. This was a Switchback to a Fast Forward in The Amazing Race 7, when Uchenna and Joyce shaved their heads and ultimately won their season. In this Leg's Roadblock, one team member had to spin 40 feet (12 m) of rope made from coconut husks, then spool 4 other rope bundles onto a spindle in order to receive their next clue. This Leg's Detour was a choice between Pachyderm and Pack a Box. In Pachyderm, teams had to properly decorate an elephant with a headdress and golden ornaments, then transport 15 wheelbarrow loads of elephant manure to a nearby truck, before receiving their next clue. In Pack a Box, teams headed to a ginger processing center, collected 10 empty boxes, filled them with ginger that they sifted to measure to the right weight, then stenciled a label on each box. Once the distribution manager was pleased with their work, he would give them their next clue.

Additional tasks
  • Upon arriving at Daiva Vili Bhagvathi Kshetram, the head priest would bless teams before giving them their next clue.
  • After the Roadblock, teams had to go to Fort Kochi where they had to look for a "barber under an ancient tree" for their next clue.

After

At the start of the leg, teams were headed to Daiva Vili Bhagvathi Kshetram, where they encountered the head priest would bless the teams before giving the next clue: the Speed Bump, the Fast Forward and a route info clue. For their Speed Bump, Mark and Bopper had to paint a tiger's face on the belly of a Puli Kali dancer before receiving their next clue. The Fast Forward required teams headed to Mutharamman Devasthanam Hindu temple and they had to take part in a traditional good luck ritual: shaving their head. This was a Switchback to a Fast Forward in The Amazing Race 7, when Uchenna and Joyce shaved their heads and ultimately won their season. The route info clue where teams directed them to Pattanacaud Coir Mats and Matting for the Roadblock. One team member had to spin 40 feet (12 m) of rope made from coconut husks, then spool 4 other rope bundles onto a spindle in order to receive their next clue, sending them to Fort Kochi where they had to look for a "barber under an ancient tree" for their next clue: the Detour, choosing between Pachyderm or Pack a Box. In Pachyderm, teams had to properly decorate an elephant with a headdress and golden ornaments, then transport 15 wheelbarrow loads of elephant manure to a nearby truck, before receiving their next clue. In Pack a Box, teams headed to a ginger processing center, collected 10 empty boxes, filled them with ginger that they sifted to measure to the right weight, then stenciled a label on each box. Once the distribution manager was pleased with their work, he would give them their next clue. Both clues directed teams to Vypin on a Cheena vala fishing nets for the Pit Stop.

Noted that there are information on how the leg started, travel to a destined location and the Pit Stop of the Race, with the new Race tradition to use in Wikipedia, it may be good for English readers. ApprenticeFan work 09:51, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Clean up of article names.

I propose we go with a more consistent naming of articles that can be utilized for all the international versions. Plus, it would fit with all the other television series articles on Wikipedia.

The simple format is: Show Name (season x)

This helps clean up the problematic and inconsistent article titles for the foreign adaptions:

Main Page: The Amazing Race (Latin America)

and so on..

Main Page: The Amazing Race Vietnam

My main concern is that the number implies that, for example, "The Amazing Race 1" is the name of the show. The number could mean just about anything. This proposal seems a lot more clearer to understand and can be applied to all the international versions. Furthermore, if you looked at how the Latin American seasons are titled, you'd think they were two completely different television shows. Regards. --Kartoffel 07 16:45, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the show itself is not broadcasted as seasons but on cycles, and particularly when the show itself in the various all-stars or switchbacks often use "TAR #" (and not "season #"). --MASEM (t) 18:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Is This Really Necessary? - No-Rest Leg Placement Indicator

At some point, someone decided that for No-Rest Legs (Ie, ones where the Leg number is underlined, Season 29 Leg 5, where teams don't get a rest period at the Pit Stop), we would start Underlining the team that came in last place. Why is this necessary? There is absolutely no penalty or change associated with this team, unlike being Eliminated or being Saved on a Non-Elimination leg with a penalty. Anyone with the most basic sense of math is able to see that 7th is the lowest number for seven teams, so obviously they came in last place. As it stands now, this just adds unnecessary scribbles to the results table. 96.48.238.205 (talk) 00:49, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is This Really Necessary? - Inconsistent RB and DT icons

It was decided by certain editors that if a Roadblock/Detour clue was picked up at a prior location to where the task takes place, then the icon would be placed behind the location name instead of in front of it. Why is this necessary information? The icon should be used to indicate where the task took place. It doesn't matter where the clue was picked up. That's information that can be obtained from the prose below. Furthermore, nothing on the pages currently explains to readers what the difference is. The only reason I know this is because of reading talk pages. It looks very inconsistent, messy and somewhat unprofessional. 96.48.238.205 (talk) 00:51, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but I don't see how information on where the clue was picked up can be obtained from the prose below. Take Leg 4 of The Amazing Race 24 as an example. Nowhere in the prose does it indicate that the Detour clue was picked up at the location prior rather than the location of the task itself. I feel that adding a line that goes "The Roadblock/Detour clue was picked up at XXX" to the prose adds unnecessary bulk to it, especially when it is easier to summarize such information by the position of the icon. Penguin407 (talk) 02:59, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
All right, but I still don't see why it's relevant. What difference does it make if the clue was picked up here or there? The TASK took place at X location, and that's what's important. 96.48.238.205 (talk) 03:07, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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