Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film
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Someone doesn't understand that cameo is an adjective or a noun, not a verb
I'm seeing a lot of film-related articles inappropriately using "cameo" as a verb. Not sure yet if it's vandalism or just plain ignorance, but cameo is an adjective or noun, not a verb. The trade papers like Variety and The Hollywood Reporter are usually very consistent about this. --Coolcaesar (talk) 02:41, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- I've seen cameo as a verb many times, and Merriam-Webster online includes such a use in its definition. I'm not sure it is an error at all. oknazevad (talk) 03:24, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- I just double-checked several dictionaries. Unfortunately, it looks like Merriam-Webster, American Heritage, and Wiktionary are trying to reflect a language shift that they're seeing in general interest articles written by poorly-trained journalists or by amateur, poorly-educated Wikipedia editors who have no idea what they're doing. If you look at more traditional, conservative sources like Dictionary.com (based on the Random House dictionary), they clearly treat cameo as a noun. I just double-checked the trade papers with a "site:" operator search on Google and verified my recollection. Unlike general interest publications, the entertainment industry publications are created by properly educated professionals who deeply care about the industry's traditions and how to write about them properly. They usually say "made a cameo" or "the cameo" or "his cameo appearance in [film name]." They do not say "[star name] cameoed." --Coolcaesar (talk) 05:00, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Possible "Variety-speak"-creep. (I'm not sure it should necessarily be changed in every case, as changing it requires many more words and the verb is much more succinct.) Softlavender (talk) 10:57, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- Whether we like it or not ("literally" becoming "figuratively") if it's in the dictionary it's fair usage for our purposes. I don't think you can really prohibit it. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 19:20, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Is this obituary for Suzan Pitt a reliable source?
Animator Suzan Pitt passed away a few days ago, and I finally found this obituary about her, which was helpful in adding some inline citations. Then I realized that some of the sentences appear to be lifted word-for-word right out of Wikipedia's (unreferenced) article about her. Is Animation Magazine reliable? Is this an instance of WP:CIRCULAR? Secundus Zephyrus (talk) 14:42, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- This does sound like an example of CIRCULAR. Obituaries are often written on the hoof (unless we are talking someone really famous) and Wikipedia is a readily available supply of information about the person. If the obituary appears to lift sentences from Wikipedia it is best not to use it. Betty Logan (talk) 16:21, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- When I start feeling suspicious of that, I sometimes retreat to sources that predate Wikipedia, such as digitized books from Google Books. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:22, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
Page move discussion
Hi. You may be interested in this discussion. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 09:33, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
Help with a manual of style dispute
Hi. On the article Lantouri User:Sc wikinevis insists on adding details of every single film festival this film has been screened at, and all the awards it has ever been nominated for. This was the latest diff. I've removed all this, per the Film MOS and have communicated this to the editor. I've explained this multiple times to them, but they don't appear to be listening. The previous time, they simply blanked their talkpage. Any further help with this matter would be helpful. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 08:05, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- I think WP:INDISCRIMINATE covers most of this. You certainly don't need to list every single festival it played and awards should only be included if they have their own article per WP:FILMCRITICLIST. I would point out to the editor that WP:Communication is required and if they refuse to discuss their edits or offer an explanation then warn them for disruptive editing, and if they do it again take it to ANI. I wouldn't worry too much provided you have haven't breached 3RR yourself. They usually take a dim view if one of the editors has attempted to discuss the issue and the other flat out refuses. Betty Logan (talk) 11:28, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks Betty. This is the sort of verbose replies the user posts, rather than addressing any concerns. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 16:24, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Lugnuts I wish I could understand why you doing this and why you became so obsessive about this article. You are ignoring facts that happened already when you are talking to new people! Thanks to wikipedia and the way it is written the history of everything is there and people can find out about them. By the way it is you who doesn't know what his/her concern is.Sc wikinevis (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Betty Logan Hello! Please look at all we communicated and then decide if I didn't communicate : Regarding the movie "Lantouri". I communicated with this user and he was the person who was ignoring me and instead was reverting my edits. He is not clear to himself/herself. I wrote everything about what I did, please read it carefully and let me know of your decision. I mentioned you here so you can read and be aware of what happened. And by the way as I mentioned before, it doesn't matter if my Talk is blank or not here the problem is something else and what is important that I read the Mnual of Style this user talking about. He just doesn't give other to improve and keeps reverting. RegardsSc wikinevis (talk) 16:35, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Betty Logan Hello again! Could you please help us Betty Logan? This user "Lugnuts" keeps deleting and reverting everything. It is not clear to him/her what is correct or wrong. I've already read the Manual and the Release dates section and I did put only important dates and events at Release section. Also about awards an nominations I put that are important to the movies with reliable sources in their sections of Lantouri. Please look at history of reverting. This user just can't decide what should stay in article and what should be deleted or reverted! He/She changes his/her decision every time he/she reverts. This user even deletes the content of what is already written in Release dates and in that Manual of Style he is talking about over and over. I'm just so tired and confused of what this user doing. He is so obsessed with this article and doesn't allow others to improve it. Please help me understand what should I do? Regards, Sc wikinevis (talk) 17:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- For this film, and others, I'm simply adhering to the Manual of Syle (MOS) for films, which I've linked to many times. This is a long-standing consensus for what should and should not be included into a film article, which in turn are linked to other wiki-guides or policies, such as WP:INDISCRIMINATE, mentioned above. If you don't like that, then you are free to try and get a consensus to change the MOS, but it is not OK to edit-war and keep re-inserting content into articles that goes against the MOS. As you feel so strongly about this, then the burden is with you to convince other editors that the MOS should be changed, using a clear and coherent rationale. Yes, there are other articles that have these lists of film festival releases and award overkill, but that does not mean it's OK to replicate that across other articles. Please take a look at these film articles to see how they are written, which is to WP's highest standards. Also, please stop pinging me. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:02, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Sc wikinevis, I suggest you read WP:FILMCRITICLIST. If you still feel there are valid reasons for adding awards without articles in direct contravention of the manual of style then start a discussion on the article talk page please and provide your reasons there. Betty Logan (talk) 13:12, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Betty Logan: Thank you for your message. I'll read what you mentioned and get back to you later. @Lugnuts: As I said before, I strongly believe you are not clear even to you yourself about what exactly your concern is. You even change the manual of style you are mentioning over and over and you even don't apologize for making other people confuse. Sorry, but What I understand is that you got obsessed with the article you once created and you don't let other people to improve it. What you are doing during the revert is not logical and you didn't answer my simple question I asked about your revert at Ritchie333 Talk. You are not able to think out of what you are focusing on and mentioning over and over. You can't decide about what your concern is exactly about the content of the article and what is important to you. This conversation is not over and I'll get back to you later. For now, due to the shortage of time of mine in real world, I'm leaving the page as it is and get in touch with you and other professionals later in Talk page. Best regards, Sc wikinevis (talk) 18:38, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Betty Logan: Concur with User:Betty Logan and User:Lugnuts and disagree with User:Sc wikinevis. There is no reason to list every festival at which a film has played. --Coolcaesar (talk) 12:28, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
- Hello @Coolcaesar:! And thank you for your feedback! And may I ask you please, depending on what exactly you are disagreeing with me? Depend on what Lugnuts user wrote here? Did you check my edits and noticed this fact that I only wrote THE IMPORTANT festivals, awards and nominations in the article? But no matter what, this user “Lungnuts” reverted my edits over and over. If you have time, please take a look at "Lantouri" article and this user's reverting history. You'll notice that this user, unfortunately, is not clear to her/himself which event should stay in article and which one should be deleted. By every revert he was changing his decision about what he previously have already decided to be in article. And this exactly what made me confused. I asked him a specific question about why he is changing his decision by every revert, but I never received an answer from this user about this matter. The user, instead, was repeating over and over “per manual of style”. I read the manual of style when this user sent me, and I was editing the article depend on what I’ve learned from that manual. The problem here is not that manual. The problem here, again, is that he is not sure what should stay in article and what should be deleted. I was not doing war editing or anything. I was just trying to improve an article. And by the way, if you look at the history of this user and my page, which is recorded there in Wikipedia, this user was reverting me over and over without even Talk-ing to me first. And this is exactly war editing! And I could just report him. But I chose to Talk first. So, my recommendation to you is, before deciding and making a judgment, please check it first what have happened or is happening! You as experienced user should help rookies. If you don’t have time to read all that happened before sending out your judgment, well, do you really believe it helps to the process or about anything? Here also you can find out that I tried to talk to this user and understand her/his concern, but he didn't answer my question : Regarding the movie "Lantouri". And, only because you were mentioned here, please read what I answered the user Lugnuts below. It could probably help you to understand the situation better. Best regards, Sc wikinevis (talk) 20:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Betty Logan: Concur with User:Betty Logan and User:Lugnuts and disagree with User:Sc wikinevis. There is no reason to list every festival at which a film has played. --Coolcaesar (talk) 12:28, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you. I just did a little bit of digging, and found that User:Sc wikinevis was blocked for edit-warring three months ago. Guess what for? Not accepting a MOS on an article. I see a pattern in their behaviour. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:37, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Lugnuts: So what? Do you believe you discovered something unique by digging a rookie editor’s Talk page!? Of course, I'm not experienced as some of you are! I even didn't know at that time that reverting is not good always because it makes an edit-war. I even was not familiar with this terminology in Wikipedia back then. But that, you should probably know as an experienced user by now!! Yes? What YOU did as an experienced user?!?! Reverting me over and over without talking to other user first?! And then not answering their question and even making it more complicated to them to understand what they should do? Are you proud of what you did?! I could report you at that time when you were reverting me, but I chose to talk to you. Do you know why? Because, I remembered the time I was reported unfairly by the other user who chose to report me instead of talking to me first and waiting for the answer! And if you go dig harder, you can find out it was a stupid thing to get reverted for!! I remember that user also hesitated to talk to me first and instead of Talk-ing, he just reported me!! Probably, I did a mistake, because at that time, I’ve just started to do editing in Wikipedia and I didn’t have any idea what’s going on here. Even now I’m only a rookie and I learn by every edit. But what YOU did exactly as an experienced user!?! You better think about your behaviour pattern not mine. You change your words and it seems that you ignore the facts and you don't think logical. And if you got these much bored in real life, I recommend you go and dig harder in my Talk and in other rookie editors' page. You’ll sure find something funny to laugh at and MAYBE feel better. And please know this childish behavior of yours doesn’t help a rookie editor or Wikipedia environment at all. Be grown up and do represent what you quoted about in your page, but in a positive way! Negativity doesn't help and by the way, you are not a robot! Show empathy. And sanity is provided! Use it instead of humiliating other rookie users and digging their page for negative feedbacks. Well, hope that it was not your concern!! Yeas?! @Lugnuts:Sc wikinevis (talk) 20:09, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
- Another wall of text. Yawn. TL/DR. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 07:43, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Possible errors on page for 'The Lone Eagle (1927)
Hello,
I'm not a Wikipedia editor, but I just watched the 1927 silent film 'The Lone Eagle (1927)', and then read the Wikipedia article (here) - and there seem to be distinct errors in the plot description. In particular, it says that the leader of the German squadron was the character 'Lebrun' played by Cuyler Supplee, but it was 'von Buehl', played by Oscar Marion. It also says that near the end, the character Holmes commandeers a plane from his friend Sven Linder - but Holmes was with Linder as he died, and then got a plane from another character (not Linder).
There are a few other inconsistencies, but those ones jumped out.
My source is that I just watched a copy of the film from an archive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.229.115.124 (talk) 16:39, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Input requested
Input is requested at Talk:Super 35 § List in History section. Thanks. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:20, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
I removed the ***** that had been added to identify actresses at least 80 years old, but the edit was reverted. Could someone from this project take a look and adjudicate. See the comments on the talk page. Thank you.--76.14.38.58 (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)