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Talk:Elisabeth von Thurn und Taxis

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by EdwardBrighton (talk | contribs) at 05:53, 26 September 2019 (→‎Princess?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Redirected article title

Wonderful article! I redirected the article from Elisabeth, Princess of Thurn and Taxis to Princess Elisabeth of Thurn and Taxis since the former style is that of a sovereign title holder. Great work! --Caponer (talk) 20:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Caponer, I worked on it for a while, I hope I got things right. Thanks for sorting out what to call it, there are a lot of "Princess Elisabeths" in the Thurn and Taxis lines. I wasn't sure how to address that but you have shown me. I also wasn't sure how to put it in German - shouldn't we use the "Prinzessin Von" form? Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 20:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to Princess Elisabeth von Thurn und Taxis

I asked about her name in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Royalty#Another_.22names_of_German_royalty_in_English_Wikipedia.22_question and it would appear that she should be called what she calls herself, so I moved it; presumably this should also apply to other members of the Thurn und Taxis family in the English Wikipedia? Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 08:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Had to move it back again - please note this has already been discussed. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 19:47, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Princess?

There is no such thing as a princess in Germany, and it's been that way since 1919. Elisabeth v. T. u. T. uses Prinzessin (German for princess) as part of her surname, but that does not make it a title. Translating that part of her name and putting it at the beginning of her name is misleading. This article should either be named Elisabeth von Thurn und Taxis or Elisabeth Prinzessin von Thurn und Taxis. Its current form is just wrong.--134.130.4.242 (talk) 00:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Noone can be as bureaucratic and legalistic as a German... IP 134.130 was a German, right? (I am too, of course)... Let's not be ridiculous, she is a Princess, "Princess" is obviously a title, and there's an end of it. By the way, even the German law which you so strive to force to your side treats nobility with indifference (the "part of the name" thing is how titles are to be treated as far as the state is concerned) and not with abolishment. This isn't Austria; and even the Austrian rules on the subject are happily ignored in Austria.
When His Eminence the Cardinal and Archbishop of Munich speaks in the Parliament of Bavaria, his address begins with "Your Royal Highness" because on such occasions the Duke of Bavaria is usually also present. And the Parliament doesn't complain.
As for surname, Princess Elisabeth uses "Thurn und Taxis", by the way.--2001:A61:260D:6E01:888A:FC6A:A542:FAD3 (talk) 02:22, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I know this is old, however, I want to add that, in the most technical sense, the abolition of national recognition of titulature does not, in itself, mean the titles no longer exist.
As Germany is now a Federal Republic, it cannot recognize the titles or status as nobles of certain citizens, following the precedent of other monarchic states-made-republics and the general sentiments that republics hold towards their preexisting aristocracy. This, for many reasons, does not mean that the titles are no longer valid. One such reason, is that titles (and especially those in the Continental Germanic tradition (i.e. the former Holy Roman Empire, the Low Countries, Austria, et c.) have the property of being dynastic. They belong to the dynasty or noble house, and most of the European systems do not have ways to remove them once they have been given, and, if they do have said mechanisms, they were scarcely used (an example being the British attainder, which was less a mechanism for the derogation of a nobleman and more a system for the forfeiture of all civil rights). Furthermore, successor states have never been recognized as having jurisdiction over the titles and titled class of the state(s) it succeeds. As such, they may integrate the titles into the surname (as Germany and France have done) or even make it illegal to express the existence of the title, but these titles exist, whether substantive or non-substantive, as actual noble titles, and not just in the family name.
TL;DR: The comment by 134.130 is itself incorrect because titles exist whether or not a successor state is willing to recognize them. --EdwardBrighton (talk) 05:52, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]