Jump to content

Talk:COVID-19 pandemic in Canada

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 66.11.171.90 (talk) at 11:51, 20 March 2020 (→‎Two sections now complete for add-on, plus final post). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:COVID19 sanctions

Manitoba Cases

As of 2020-03-08, the Map is showing BC, AB, QC and ON as having Confirmed Cases and MB as having Suspected Cases. To my understanding, there are no cases of SARS-2 in Manitoba. The National Microbiology Laboratory is located in Winnipeg, Manitoba, but there are not any cases in the Province. OSSYULYYZ (talk) 16:04, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Canadian Deaths

To my understanding, the CBC has reported one Canadian death in North Vancouver as of 2020-03-09, we must update this page to reflect that thejacxb —Preceding undated comment added 18:32, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The death occurred on Sunday March 8th, it was reported today Monday March 9th, See:(CBC News) 68.148.230.9 (talk) 23:04, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

New Brunswick

On March 9, 2020 NB Public Health revised the current situation to require anyone who has traveled internationally in the last 14 days to self-quarantine for two weeks from when they arrived back in Canada. This made New Brunswick the only jurisdiction in Canada to require self-quarantine for every traveller returning from international destinations. In keeping with this requirement, the Minister of Education released a memo on March 9 that students, staff or volunteers returning from international travel must self-quarantine for two weeks from when they returned to Canada.[1] NB Public Health later reversed the decision on self-quarantine for all travellers returning to Canada from international destinations and the original notice was removed from the NB government website. NB Public Health will now require anyone who has traveled internationally in the last 14 days to self-monitor for two weeks from when they arrived back in Canada. People arriving from Iran or the Chinese province of Hubei will need to self-isolate regardless of symptoms.[2] It is unclear if the requirement to self-quarantine for those entering schools has also been revoked.

There are no cases of COVID-19 in New Brunswick at this time.

References

  1. ^ CBC News. CBC https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/bernice-macnaughton-students-europe-covid-19-1.5491240. Retrieved 10 March 2020. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  2. ^ Office of the Chief Medical Officer of Health (Public Health). Office of the Chief Medical Officer of Health (Public Health) https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/ocmoh/cdc/content/respiratory_diseases/coronavirus.html. Retrieved 10 March 2020. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en is not a reliable source

See here, this is a self-published source by non-experts and should not be used in Wikipedia. Please use either official counts or the CSSE source which has been published in a peer reviewed academic journal. --hroest 22:01, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Years removed from dates in article

Why were all the years removed from dates used in citations for this article?

@Doc James: it looks like something you did affected the entire article and not just the overview table? ViperSnake151  Talk  15:04, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What are you referring to User:ViperSnake151? I am seeing lots of years in citations. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:09, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's odd ... must've went away. I swear it was like that (and there were indeed revisions where they were, so maybe they fixed themselves?). ViperSnake151  Talk  16:19, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:06, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is a table of infected persons appropriate or necessary?

This table only seems to deal with a few of those infected in Canada. It also seems too detailed and somewhat personal. Perhaps, I am just being too sensitive, but should this really be included?--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have the same concern. It is specific to Quebec and is missing many of the fields. I do not believe the table adds any significant value to the article. – StreetSodatalk 03:37, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but it could be summarized by region and the fact that all people had a travel history (so far). --hroest 13:58, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Until March 6, anyway (first community case). There is some value in identifying location of travel, when known (we currently have nothing indicating U.S.-sourced infection); and community cases as discovered. Maybe take a look at the Ontario page "recent cases" https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus , use a variant of that template? - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:00, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What do blank table entries mean?

Do blank entries in the table, e.g., "By province" signify values of zero, or that the data are unavailable? The distinction should be made clear. See, e.g., the present line for March 13. Unavailable data could be indicated with a dash. Layzeeboi (talk) 20:49, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overhaul

This is currently a mess of an article. We literally have nothing here except a rough timeline of responses (inaccurately called an overview) and early cases in each province -- which is actively distorting a true overview of current information. If someone where to come here, they would have no coherent information on responses. In fact, they would not even have any way of knowing that the majority of new Canadian cases for more than a week now are directly linked to U.S. travel!

I am going to tackle this overhaul sometime in the next few hours. My goal is to edit key information into discrete groupings which will make information clearer, and the whole article more encyclopaedic in style and tone. I will probably have to add new information to flesh out underdeveloped sections -- leaving the referencing at raw urls, since that part is not my strength.

I would greatly appreciate it if, having done this, differences of opinion are taken here and not to a reactory mass delete. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 01:02, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Currently cleaning up timeline. In most cases where an initial decision was extended, you will now find this in the original month that decision was taken. Even if specific prose is not mentioned of a particular extension, it will be trackable in the references. (I hung onto all of those.) - Tenebris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:06, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like a good deal of the province-by-province (eg) school closures could be moved into "Government responses". That will be my next tackle after finishing March. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:16, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I am going to leave finishing the timeline overhaul (February, March) until last. Other work will give a better sense of what is needed here. So currently working on private sector reactions, postponements, and cancellations. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:36, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Breaking for now. I have not yet fully tackled timeline (February, March) or Private sector reactions (Air Canada and WestJet closing down routes should go in here). I have not yet touched Additional information on cases (going to add a statistics section in here, and the prose in each provincial section should be overhauled -- I expect to cut it down by half). I only touched the surface of closures, cancellations, etc. It would be a good idea to add the source of infection to the case table while we still can -- if travel-related, mention which country. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 12:23, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cleaning up article is a good idea. I would suggest moving all the bits about the measures taken by each government and putting them all into a single "government reaction" section, instead of leaving them scattered in each province's section on the outbreak in that province. I don't want conflicting edits so I won't do that, but I think there should be a single section for all government reactions. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:16, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is exactly the plan. Thank you for checking here. I had been prioritizing centralized information and working my way down from that -- the intent in that section is to have separate sections on federal, provincial/territorial, and civic actions being taken. In fact, one of the reasons I expect to cut down the prose in the scattered sections by half is precisely sorting out all the provincial stuff below ... only not just yet. Give me a few hours break! - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 13:28, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Understood! Everyone needs a break from time to time! I don’t know much about health stuff, but may be able to help on gov’t questions. Will monitor the article and make suggestions if anything comes up. Thanks for doing this. I’m sure a lot of people will be reading this article, so we want it to be as accurate and readable as possible. Good organisation is very helpful. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 14:23, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to move the section on "Cases by Province" to follow the "Timeline" section, and then have the various sections on responses by governments and the private sector? Right now, there's the general timeline, the various responses, and only then the detailed info on the cases. For an article on a pandemic, shouldn't the progression of the disease by province come before the responses? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 19:36, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(Not officially here yet ...) I am going to be seriously paring down the prose on "Cases by province" (still would prefer a different title for that section) to core information; and also adding some statistics to the beginning of that section, just to distill the table into an at-a-glance summary. Offhand, it looks like I will be pulling some of that information for the government (provincial/territorial, and possibly city) sections; no reason it should be in there. I don't want to mix any of this in with Timeline -- that should be reserved for key markers, which is why I am leaving it until last (when I will have a better sense of when those key markers are.
What I do think would be very useful for this article -- in that section -- is a second table showing province / city / cases / by source of infection (specific country of travel, community) / time (by weeks, counting week 1 as the first week a case was reported, follow calendar Sun-Sat convention). I can almost picture the structure of it, but not enough to outline it at this point. Give me 24 hours (unless someone else gets to it first). Since nearly all Canadian cases have thus far been travel-related, that table will show the change over time in the pattern of spread, possibly more clearly than any other country's can do (because of the particularly wide diversity of travel). - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 23:12, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So BC and Alberta have been completed in the "Cases by province" section, with the information on travel and recommended self-quarantine moved to the government section. I would ask that prose total cases/testing etc by province keep being updated (information in the links), and that subsequent cases only be added on an individual basis if they are "firsts" (eg. first case from Italy, first confirmed case from the U.S., etc. (Give me another 24 hours, and we just might be able to submit this article for "Good article" review!) - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:29, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I liked the paring down of the Alberta case section. Will you do the same for Ontario? It's very bloated, especially since there is a separate Ontario article.
I had some time in my hands so I pulled all the "response" stuff out of the "cases" section and set up separate responses for each province. If we can keep the "cases" section restricted to info about the medical cases, I think that's best. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 14:24, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and thanks for the pulls. I started a separate discussion on the section move. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 16:34, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Common use pix needed

Airport information kiosk images from YVR or YYZ (as the original transportation loci in this context), closed poster on a venue, hospital quarantine poster, health minister/Trudeau/Dr. Theresa Tam giving announcements, etc. They must be fair use or Creative Commons licensing. I think we could use about 3-4 of these -- minimum one political, one social (other than bare shelves, we already have that), one private sector. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 12:14, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A TSX chart, maybe? covering Feb 24-Mar 13? - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 23:14, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Map

I assume grey on the map means no reported cases. Could that be added to the legend? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 15:50, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What is the point of the second map? It provides no comparative info amongst the provinces that have cases. All it does is add a "suspected" category. Is that really worth adding a new map? Plus, what do we do when we have confirmed cases in every province and territory, which is likely to happen at some point? We would just have a red map of Canada. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 23:21, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Map colour scheme

The current colour scheme seems a little bit off. Going from yellow, to salmon, to brown, then to bright red doesn't make much sense. I suggest using only obvious shades of red as is done on the main map (right). TrailBlzr (talk) 17:55, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not particularly attached to this colour scheme, I just used the same as the United States article for consistency. I personally think it should stay the same for consistency and ease of comparison but it can be changed if consensus feels otherwise.UmpireRay (talk) 19:07, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm okay with this colour scheme. If we used the world-wide one, would we have to use the same scale as that one, but lose level of detail for our lower numbers ? Or, if we use the same colours as the world map, but change the scale to provide more detail, would that cause confusion with the world map scale? Different scales may call for different color schemes? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 20:03, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, the scale should of course be relevant to Canada's numbers. The colours on the global map make it obvious which places have been hardest hit; it's less obvious on the Canada map which provinces have been hit the hardest because the colours don't entirely make sense. TrailBlzr (talk) 21:05, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So it's the "light shading to dark" as a visual expression of severity that you'd like? I'm okay with that, if we keep the same scale as the map currently has. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 21:31, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I have updated the map to use a more consistent colour scale (as used in other articles) while maintaining Canada-specific scale. UmpireRay (talk) 22:09, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For colourblind purposes, shading of a single colour, as is the case in your sample, tends to work better than using different colours. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 23:16, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The current teal is actually a rather difficult colour for colourblindness; tends to muddy on both the RG and BY spectrums. The previous red was better. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 16:43, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Limited Table of Contents

What's the reason for the limited Table of Contents? On such a major article, sub and sub-sub headings are very helpful for the organization of the article. Should be shown in the TOC. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 18:58, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No comment from anyone, so I was bold and eliminated the restriction on TOC depth. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 14:25, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Admin (and ER doc!) @Doc James: restored that, with some other tweaks. I've no objection to that restoration, certain not for the subheadings I added. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:35, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah sorry missed this. I find having third level headings makes the TOC to long... Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:37, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think it looks fine now... Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:44, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry folks. No, what happened is that someone had made Event cancellations a subheader of Private sector, again. It is not. Not all the events such as sports or arts are private sector. If anyone wants to restore the TOC limit, please do. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:29, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:Shawn in Montreal I added it not removed it? Showing more levels of TOC reduces weight for level two heads as they are harder to see. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:48, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oh yes of course. Sorry, I changed that. Yes, my main concern at the time was just that someone (?) had made or restored event cancellations as a subordinate of private sector and the TOC limit had had the effect of hiding Arts, Sports, etc. -- which was not useful. It was hiding too much useful navigation. Now that Event cancellations is a main section heading again, the TOC limit would be okay with me. (Also, different editors have come along and reexpanded some of the section titles that you had trimmed back. I agree with the restorations.) Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:54, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I had originally made "Cancelled events" part of "Private sector" -- but you are right, not all are, and they should not be there. Broadly speaking, I am also against an overly expanded ToC - more difficult to see the subheaders for many people, and also contributing to that wall of text I keep talking about. As it stands right now, it seems a good compromise between people who want jump-to detail and readability. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:26, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Death-Recoveries-Active Cases Graphic

The Deaths-Recoveries-Active Cases stacked bar graph graphic is an excellent visualization. Nice work. I would be interested in also seeing the derivative, a graph of the daily/weekly percentage change. - R 75.157.179.170 (talk) 19:00, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the derivative won't really have much meaning yet in Canada? So far, all but one case has come from a single cluster of concentrated infections, which does distort the sample. But you are right, it would be relevant not to lose track of this. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:30, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First child case in Quebec

I've unresigned to help with this and will proceed carefully until I get a feel for how things work. Just point out that as of March 14 we have Quebec's first child case: perhaps someone wants to add that to the text and the tally? https://twitter.com/perreaux/status/1238976120319549440 thanks, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back! :) I'm not sure how best to add case info like that. I've just been focusing on article organisation, bare URLs, and stuff like that. Anyone else have an answer for Shawn in Montreal? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 14:28, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I will look at it. I have not yet touched the Quebec section -- that is planned for about 12 hours from now. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:31, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overhaul - cancelled/postponed section

I propose two options for the cancellations / postponement section. (I have not yet touched sports - it is long, and there is no point doing it one way if the consensus here prefers a different option.) I tentatively went with the one which is more prose, based on WP's style preferences. You can see that version in the Arts, Business, and Tourism subsections.

The other option, which I think looks cleaner but would use bullet form, is to eliminate cancelled / postponed subheadings and instead stick to a straight chronological list, eg.

  • Cancelled: The 2020 Juno Awards presentation, honouring excellence in Canadian music. It was originally planned to be held in Saskatoon on March 15.

This could be divided either chronologically (in which case cancelled and postponed are mixed) or by doing first cancellations and then postponements (or the other way around). The word "cancelled" or "postponed" could be done in bold, if preferred.

Thoughts? - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 09:18, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes I just did a bit of clean up there (Hot Docs has no association w/ TIFF and the dates were wrong) and had the same thought: this would all be a little clearer and shorter as bullet points rather than one-sentence paragraphs. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:25, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I added the brief note about the confirmed Saskatchewan case to the Juno section, in the process of adding the CFMAs, only because the Juno section was already specifically calling attention to the lack of any Saskatchewan cases as of the cancellation announcement — it kind of violates NPOV to leave the implication that they were just overreacting in place, while not pointing out that reality vindicated them within a few hours — but I have no strong personal opinion about how this article is or isn't formatted going forward. Bearcat (talk) 14:50, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Bearcat. I'm going to try to step away from the computer get going here IRL. In cases were we have a good target link like Juno_Awards_of_2020, I think we should take advantage of it and leave the details for there. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Staying clear of this section while you are working on it. Heads-up that sports items seem to keep ending up in the arts section. Thanks for the TIFF catch, Shawn in Montreal, that one was on me. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 15:55, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We really don't need each individual sport to have a subsection. (Besides, one paragraph per subsection is bad WP style.) People who want more detail than one paragraph per sport can go to the linked "Events cancellation" page. For consistency with the other cancelled/postponed events, I am going to drop the subsections altogether, give a single sweeping intro with all the affected leagues, and convert each non-league postponed or cancelled event to bullet form. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:04, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overhaul - location of "Cases by province"

I would suggest that it be returned to its previous position, simply because the combination of Timeline and Cases by province makes for a wall of text between those two and all other information. Most people coming here will either want to read the whole article or will jump directly to their preferred section; putting it back-to-back with Timeline makes it much more difficult for the article to "flow" for a read-through reader. The expanded ToC already pushes stuff further down below the fold -- not objecting, just noting its effect -- but the combination of Timeline / Cases by province / Government response also creates a bit of a wall right in ToC.

Slight tangent ... do we really need separate provincial sections on "Government response"? That feels like overkill, and adds to the "wall" effect both in the article and in the ToC. All of this can be summarized in a single paragraph per province; maybe two paragraphs for Ontario and BC.

The "Cases by province" section is specifically for more case detail than the overviews provide, and thus it should be close to last, if not last. People looking for details in that section can easily track them via the ToC. (A few more hours available just now -- let's see if it is enough to finish that section completely and add the statistics and epidemiology sections.) - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 15:55, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I moved the Cases up is that I generally go on the newspaper article principle : the most important stuff goes at the top of an article, less important stuff later. By that organizational principle, the number of cases in a pandemic, and their geographic distribution across the country, should come before things like whether the Junos have been cancelled or Tim's has deferred rolling up rims.
With respect to wall of text, I'm afraid this topic is a text heavy one, by its nature. However, that's what the Table of Contents is for: to allow the reader to navigate quickly to the part they want to read. That's why I removed the limit on the levels of the TOC: on a lengthy article, having the sub-headings showing right in the TOC is important for the navigation of the article. The purpose of the TOC is precisely to allow people to jump to the part of the article they want to read, without having to read the whole thing.
With respect to separate headings for each province in the "Response" section, I think there are three reasons for creating separate "response" headings by province (and territory, if they eventually have cases, which seems likely).
First, as Shawn in Montreal points out, Health is largely a provincial/territorial matter, so you potentially have thirteen different responses. Lumping the entire country into a few paragraphs will be difficult.
Second, if there are Province headings for Cases, but not for Responses, the natural tendency of editors will be to stick Province-specific material into the case section, which muddies the waters. That's exactly what had happened, with information about each province's response being entered in the section on that province's cases. Since there will likely continue to be information added on what each province and territory is doing, and those responses may vary, in my opinion it's better to have separate headings, to make it clear where that info on a province's response should go.
Third, why should Ontario and Quebec get special trestment and have their own sections, and the other seven provinces and territories get a generic "Rest of Canada" treatment? To my mind, NPOV means equal treatment for all provinces and territories. Either we just have one section, "Provincial and territorial responses" with all thirteen lumped together, or each province and territory gets equal treatment and their own section. We shouldn't be saying some provinces are more important than others, especially since we don't know in advance which Province or territory may have a more severe infection rate or death rate. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 17:43, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not saying they won't, just that in most cases, any differences in those responses can easily be summarized into a single paragraph per province. Not difficult at all. Per #2, editors are still sticking things in the wrong sections even when they are labeled; and the doubling-up of provinces could equally lead editors to stick things into the wrong province box. Per #3, I don't think Ontario or Quebec should get separate treatment, or have to get separate treatment. (Let me write it up and show you ... tomorrow.) As to the data heavy vs. "that's what the ToC is for", I think we should make the article as a whole as reader-friendly as possible. People who are only interested in x or y can always jump to their preferred sections, regardless of section order, whereas readers who want to read through will find it more difficult with the current layout. I think we should make the article as easy as possible for as many people as possible to read in their own manner. (And btw Ontario is done. I can now fit that entire section onto my desktop screen!) - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 18:21, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry - last 24 hours were busier than expected. Relative to this section, I did notice that *every* one of the other pages, and in particular the U.S., UK, and Australia pages, all placed this section at the end or one section away from the end, ie. as the equivalent of an appendix to the article. (The UK accurately titles this section "Statistics".) We are the only major English-language country page to do it differently. Thus, I think it appropriate to move the section back to the end (per the wider country-page consensus), unless there is compelling reason for us specifically to do it differently. (At this point, I do think ours is one of the best quality country-specific pages.)

I also bounced the question past several non-WP editors who were interested in the topic. All of them said that people who were interested in province-specific cases would just cut down to the section which said "Province-specific cases", and that those would also tend to be the people who had relatively little interest in the rest of the article. (Several of them also said that the ToC was too long, and wondered why there were two lists of provinces -- although I see that has already changed.)

I did promise a rewrite sample, which would also have the side effect of eliminating the necessity for a second province-by-province list. Working on it now. I will put it into the main article, along with moving the section to be consistent with other country-specific COVID-19 articles. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 09:12, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like how someone tightened the Ontario section. I came onto this page today thinking to make one of those changes to cut the text; you also found others. Well done. (Note for whoever wants to do it - there should be at least one reference for each from-country first case. It can be the same reference, duplicated.) - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 11:12, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Table does need to be on the right side with wrapped text -- can some kind soul fix it please? For me at least, time spent trying to figure out coding would be better spent writing. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 09:28, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Memorial University

Don't have time to edit this myself: [1]. Hope this helps. 2607:FEA8:D5E1:1D00:D1E0:753E:4BB6:EDFA (talk) 16:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added to article. Thanks! Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 18:10, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject COVID-19

I've created WikiProject COVID-19 as a temporary or permanent WikiProject and invite editors to use this space for discussing ways to improve coverage of the ongoing 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. Please bring your ideas to the project/talk page. Stay safe, --Another Believer (Talk) 17:52, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Will check it out ... although just now it is taking all my spare time to deal with this page! - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:33, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Our work here is appreciated

Andrew Coyne retweeted this comment so there may be some extra views: https://twitter.com/AndrewScheidl/status/1239384221036224515 Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:47, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm on the board of a church-based organisation, which has been meeting to determine our next steps. I've circulated the link to this page to the other board members, and recommended it as the most reliable and up-to-date news aggregator that I'm aware of. Thank you to everyone who has contributed. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 01:01, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gaming

Minor question for @ViperSnake151: and others: most but not all of the gaming in Canada is provincially owned, right? The two organizations currently cited are a crown corporation and an organization jointly run by the Maritime provinces, I think. So should Gaming not be in Private sector, maybe move to the underpopulated Tourism? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:22, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That may work better. ViperSnake151  Talk  15:37, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done, thanks. Yes with the Quebec casinos added it's mostly but not all public sector. And I'm bullet pointing them too, helps to condense it a little. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:44, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gaming in Saskatchewan is partly provincial, partly 1st Nations. Agree Tourism is a better fit. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 12:34, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Moving gambling back to tourism. Sports is populated enough. Besides, the only type of gaming that habitually makes TSN is poker. No one even suggests that slots should be considered a sport. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:40, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually that turned out to be an outright delete, since all that information was already in the second Tourism paragraph. Let's save the point form for events that happen on specific dates (eg. CNE or PNE) - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:43, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Newfoundland and Labrador schools

Once again, I don't have time to edit this myself: [2] 2607:FEA8:D5E1:1D00:60C7:8A16:43BC:1D23 (talk) 20:42, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is Not a Newspaper

Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a newspaper While including information on recent developments is sometimes appropriate, breaking news should not be emphasized or otherwise treated differently from other information. Timely news subjects not suitable for Wikipedia may be suitable for our sister project Wikinews, though that is not a particularly active project.

If wikipedia does not publish news, how useful is this Wiki article? The situation in Ontario is changing daily!! https://www.tvo.org/article/covid-19-what-you-need-to-know-for-march-16?fbclid=IwAR1LAjLWoS5dDrq8Yyl6R9-uyEg99M2j2KFhRk2sK-TUib7dwNCEntuJzso

The point of an encyclopaedic article is to offer a broad overview of a subject. In this particular case, the article does not document every single piece of incoming information about changes in Ontario (eg. each new case, day-to-day changes in Ford policy and occasional backtracking, what the TTC has to say on every given day), but attempts to distill and summarize all that information into a sweeping coherent picture. Hope this helps. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 08:04, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are 177 cases of COVID-19 in Ontario, according to the latest numbers from provincial health officials on Monday morning. That's a jump of 32 cases from Sunday afternoon's official tally. All but nine of those are in the GTA. Five of them have been resolved. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid-19-coronavirus-monday-1.5498849

Peter K Burian (talk) 21:10, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Numbers not matching up

The "COVID-19 cases in Canada" box says 434 cases right now, but the "COVID-19 cases in Canada by province" table says 413. This divergence seems to have started on March 12th at 157 vs 156 and it has grown to a gap of 4, 7, and then 21 over subsequent days.

Are there cases which aren't being reported in the provincial table? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.46.25.140 (talk) 23:50, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Probably. I don't know how many of us have significant free time outside family and jobs, and events have jumped (as expected) this past weekend. We can get the overall numbers from a single source, but case-by-case analysis often requires checking several different sources. Also, it is the nature of an event such as this that there will always be a delay in updating the numbers throughout all the pages, and those numbers often change even as they are being changed. It's not just WP either. The major worldwide counters don't add up the same ways either, and sometimes even backtrack where it turns out cases came in twice from different sources. In the U.S., it has gotten to the point where two different numbers are shown for totals in the sidebar, because they are so widely different. I can take a look at it if I still have spare time after tackling the other sections, but probably someone else will get to it before me. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 08:07, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

People are going to keep posting updates to closures, cancellations, cases, etc, and we definitely want new editors to keep supporting this article by adding new information. We have hammered out a few guidelines for various sections here. Is there any way of adding a top-of-page message to this specific editing page explaining (eg.) that we are putting cancelled/postponed events in chronological order? or are those kinds of messages limited to WP as a whole? - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 09:37, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overhaul - government response

I have changed my mind - I do think the provincial/territorial subtitles are necessary here, provided they don't end up in the ToC. However, since the impacts are far from equal between provinces (and we hope to keep it that way -- ie. not spreading), could we consolidate some of them? Specifically, I am thinking a division as follows: Alberta, British Columbia, Ontario, Quebec, "Manitoba + Saskatchewan", Atlantic provinces, Territories. This is not about some regions being more equal than others; it is about some regions getting hit much harder than others. We should also have a section on municipal response (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver) -- this should not require subsections, just 1-2 paragraphs for each (aiming for one). This division should hold out for at least the week, I hope. We can always subdivide further if the number of cases increases. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 11:24, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Still strongly disagree. It just sounds to me like the big provinces deserve more attention than the the smaller provinces. If some provinces are not as badly affected as other provinces, that is itself an important fact. Is it because of lower number of travellers? Better response from a particular province’s health system and government? Plus, residents of smaller provinces will be checking this page for news. Having specific entries for each province (and territory, if they start getting cases) is important for residents of smaller provinces. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 12:41, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Plus, to be consistent, wouldn't the entries in the Cases section have to be collapsed in the same way, and the table altered so that the columns are Man+Sask and Atlantic, rather than separate columns for each province? Why would there be any rationale for different treatment in the two sections? The maps should also be altered accordingly. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 12:54, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The comment about "some regions being harder hit than others" is just looking at numbers. But if the numbers are lower in some provinces than others, that is an important fact, especually if at some point it becomes clear that the responses by some governments have helped to "bend the curve". If that happens, that is equally as significant on an article on the pandemic as the distribution of numbers.
Plus, you're not talking about some "regions" getting harder hit. The regions of Canada, as set out in the Constitution, are Ontario, Quebec, the Maritimes, the West (including BC), and N&L. The proposed division is separate entries for the four biggest provinces, and regional entries for the remaining six provinces and territories, whose residents aren't entitled to the same easy access to information about what their governments are doing as the residents of the four important provinces.
And, of course, big cities in the four important provinces are apparently entitled to their own entries, while the six smaller provinces and the territories aren't deserving of such treatment.
Bottom line is that any division based solely on numbers automatically skews the article in favour of the big provinces. It tells residents of smaller provinces, who come to this article seeking information about what their governments are doing, that they aren't as important because their numbers are lower. PEI's absolute numbers will always be lower than Ontario's numbers. That doesn't mean Islanders should have less access to information than residents of big (i.e. Important) provinces. Organising the article based solely on numbers always means larger provinces get more attention. That's not NPOV. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:40, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point. I will first tackle some of the disruptive (correction - most of it does seem to have been good faith, but differently focused and/or ESL slang) editing on the page, then return here.
However, personally I don't see this issue as province vs province politics, but as a function of relative population and transportation hubs, because that is how virus spread sees it. Within that context, to give regions which have little spread and which are likely to see little spread the same weight as regions which have massive spread and are likely to keep seeing massive spread is NPOV.
Yet now that you remind me, I do remember that there was a political meaning of "region". I really don't want to bring politics into it if it can be avoided. (Viruses don't care about borders.) If you can find a non-political way to express a way to emphasize core areas relative to viral hosts (population) and spread (transportation), I am completely open to it. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 16:24, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The non-political way is not to refer to provincial boundaries at all. If the article refers to provincial boundaries when talking about viral hosts and spreads in the big provinces, but "regions" when talking about viral hosts and spreads in the smaller provinces, that is relying on political divisions, and saying some political entities are more significant than others. The residents of smaller provinces are just as entitled to see information about what's going in their province without having to read sections about the big important provinces and then wade through the "others" category to find out what is happening in their province.
And, the phrase "hardest hit" seems to be used in absolute numbers, which again favours the big, important provinces. What if the case-load per million goes off the charts in PEI and the hospitals there are overwhelmed, but their overall numbers are the smallest in Canada? Is it "hardest hit" or just a statistical blip? And again, a low number of cases in a particular province may be an indicator that province is doing well in containment, tracking and treatment, perhaps better than another province. That is useful information in an article about a pandemic. Focuseing on "hardest hit" has the potential to mask significant differences in treatment, particularly if "hardest hit" just means absolute numbers. By that measure, the big important provinces will always be given more treatment in the article, which is not NPOV. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 19:28, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Still curious what the answer to my question is: if it's just about the big numbers, shouldn't the table columns for Manitoba and Saskatchewan be collapsed into one column, and the four Atlantic provinces be collapsed into one column? If it's just about the big numbers, what's the rationale for them each having a separate column? What's the rationale for each small, unimportant province having a separate heading in the "Cases" section?

Different subject, but trying to keep the "Government response" topics together. I am going to remove a good deal of the federal government response to focus entirely on current and active government actions. However, I don't want to lose any of that information! I have saved out the text and am going to be moving it into the Timeline immediately (even though, generally speaking, I have still not tackled Timeline past January). This has become my sole goal for this session. (The next session will probably be in about ten hours.) - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:15, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have not lost the deleted information, but I have run out of time for now -- will put it into Timeline when I get back. I previously deleted "Public Service Disruptions", someone restored it. I don't think it merits a subsection for now -- every business is looking at ways to do the same with their own white-collar workers, and we don't have a mention for that. We do need a mention for other forms of transportation -- VIA Rail trains are also disrupted now (again). Gone until later. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 19:01, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Further condensation

Having been the one who expanded the sports section into bullet points, I like what Tenebris has done in the first para. at 2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Canada#Sports and I think I can easily condense the rest into one or two more paragraphs. Any objections? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:48, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is now protected?

@El C: In that case, I must strongly object to the semi-protection of this article. Per WP:SEMI, indefinite semi-protection is appropriate for heavy and persistent vandalism, which this article clearly has not seen. It also specifically states that "Semi-protection should not be used as a preemptive measure against vandalism that has not yet occurred," which it seems is the reasoning behind this semi-protection. IP users have made valuable contributions to this page, particularly @66.11.171.90:, and I don't think removing their permissions to edit is at all justified for this specific article. UmpireRay (talk) 22:30, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is existing consensus to take firm hand, UmpireRay. This is too important. El_C 22:44, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Interestingly, there is NO consensus whatsoever for that in *this* article. Yes, I read your linked page. It does not imply the kind of consensus you are claiming here. We were not having any problems. As far as anyone can see, you basically drove by, took a look at the traffic, and decided to slap on a level of protection which was not needed. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 03:08, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But it doesn't take into account how nice Canadians are! Seriously, I hope our great IP contributors create accounts. There's no reason not to. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:49, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On that there is no dispute — Canadians are nice. El_C 22:57, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Why am I suddenly reminded of the Dixie Chicks (Not Ready to Make Nice)? When did "nice" become a perceived synonym for "pushover"? - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 04:20, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note to new editors: Welcome. While this article is semi-protected, please continue helping us improve this article by recommending edits. You may also consider creating an account.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 22:37, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(laugh) Where were you, El C, when we were actively working on this article during the past week? and making it as damn good as you see it? But clearly you have decided you specifically don't want *my* edits, your "Non-confirmed editors can still contribute via edit requests" notwithstanding. See, if you had actually been around during our work the past week, you would understand just how impossible that realistically is for some of us IPs. And DON'T tell me that I can always make an account. WP is supposed to treat all editors equally, be they members or non-members. It is actually one of the pillars of WP. You are the one who has decided otherwise here -- and it certainly is not on the basis of relative positive contributions to the article. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 02:43, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 66, I expect El C's decision to make this page semi-protected was not directed at you. It is important that information on health issues is accurate. That is especially the case on topics of significant public concern like Covid-19. While you are an unregistered editor who has improved the article significantly, some new editors do not always have as noble intentions. In certain circumstances (usually temporarily) editing restrictions are imposed to guard against such sort of thing. I hope you will continue editing, and consider creating an account to help us continue to build a better encyclopedia. There are some advantages to opening an account. Firstly, it permits you to edit semi-protected articles once you have logged some edits. Secondly, it can provide better anonymity (as IP addresses can be tracked). Anyway, thanks for your contributions and please stick around. Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 02:59, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I know it was not *aimed* at me. Nonetheless it hit me. What I don't know is whether it was aimed thoughtlessly and indiscriminately at the dozens of other IPs who have also given valuable contributions on this page; and who were hit as well. The reason given in the consensus was the concern about misinformation. We have none here. We did not even have problems with misinformation here. This action, as it relates to this specific page, goes far beyond overkill. The WP administrative structure is entirely capable of going beyond one-size-fits-all decisions, but only if its admins have the courage and independence of thought to consider anything but the easy road. Considering that I do value WP's pillars and know deuced well that administrators are just as capable of coming up with consensus for exceptions to the rule as they are for sweeping decisions, can you tell me one single reason why I should stick around where my contributions as an IP are clearly not valued by those who set the rules? - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 03:57, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
66, there are procedures to implement and maintain semi-protected status on articles. As far as I am aware, there is no procedure to exempt a specific IP. One of the reasons for that is multiple users can use the same IP (ie universities, employers, libraries etc). It seems there will be a discussion about whether the article requires to be protected and when that would end. Others can provide more insight into that. All of that said, one of our key pillars is WP:AGF. El C protected this article because they believe that is necessary. That may change soon, it may not. It does not appear to have been directed at you. If you wish to continue editing this article you can make suggestions, create an account, or request the protection be lifted (that may or may not happen). If you want some advice on any of those processes this is the right place, otherwise this is not the right place for the discussion. Thanks for your edits. I appreciate them and others seem to as well. Hope you stick around. Have a good night. Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 04:31, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"66"? I sign off on a name specifically to create individuality for an IP and to take responsibility for my edits, and you choose to answer to a number? WP:AGF? I did assume good faith before. I specifically said that I did not think the action was aimed at me personally. This answer suggests I may have been mistakened. "Thanks for your edits. I appreciate them and others seem to as well. Hope you stick around. Have a good night." That is the approximate equivalent of "Thoughts and prayers," when said by a person in whose power it is to alter the event that led to that cliché, but who does not themself have any desire to do so. The procedure *you* would take btw is quite simple - propose an amendment to the decision on this page: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard, on the basis that for this page at least, it was not needed. That one is specifically in your power to do. It is not in members' power to do. You now know the facts of the situation on this page. Will you have the courage to value substance over expediency? - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 05:27, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Tenebris, if you want the protection to be lifted discuss it on the noiceboard. I suggest you assume good faith of the editors there. Just because some disagree with you about the level of protection appropriate, does not mean that they are choosing "expediency" over "substance" or failing to value the contributions of unregistered editors to date. It also doesn't mean they are wrong. I only commented here to offer you assistance and encouragement. I am feeling hostility in return. Wish you the best of luck, but I won't be pushing for a lifting of the protection status at this time. You will find more allies here if you don't play the man and accept help when it is offered instead of lashing out. Have a great day. Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 15:00, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the semiprotect. I feel like semiprotecting this page is quite detrimental. I was editing via ip address, but given the 4-day lockout period for people creating new accounts the hurdle is a bit too big. This page is active enough that any vandalism will be quickly reverted, and I haven't seen significant vandalism of this page. If there happens to be significant vandalism, I would at that moment support semiprotecting. --Gau Choob (talk) 15:25, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, not sure it is up for a vote either. Gau Choob, I think the discussion to lift protections might have to take place on the noticeboard.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk)
It is not open for a vote. I am exercising community mandate, as an uninvolved admin, with the authority of WP:GS/COVID19. El_C 16:49, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2020

{{subst:trim|1=

Request: update Government Response -> Provincial -> Ontario to add at a minimum "On March 17 Premier Doug Ford declared a state of emergency"

citation: https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/3/ontario-enacts-declaration-of-emergency-to-protect-the-public.html


 Done. Expanded a little more than asked for. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 04:19, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Semi-protected edit request

I created a subpage for Quebec 2020 coronavirus_pandemic in Quebec.

Please add a link to the header of the Quebec section. Gau Choob (talk) 06:11, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. El_C 16:53, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request

This section reads

The federal government's pandemic response is based on two primary documents: the Canadian Pandemic Influenza Preparedness planning guidelines, which outlines risks and measures to address a viral disease, and the Canadian Pandemic Influenza Preparedness planning guidelines

Emphasis mine, the bolded sections are referenced by citations but the second one is cited to a different document indicating it was an editing mistake and should instead read "Federal/Provincial/Territorial Public Health Response Plan for Biological Events".

QuestionMarked (talk) 06:42, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. El_C 16:57, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2020

Under the "Sports" para, the second-last sentence says:

Three upcoming national team matches that were scheduled to be played...

but the sport isn't specified.

Suggest: Three upcoming national soccer team matches that were scheduled to be played... 142.165.171.147 (talk) 18:04, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. El_C 18:07, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cases per million nationally

The cases per million map breaks the rate down by province and territory, but no-where in the article does it say how many cases per million for the country as a whole. That’s an interesting stat for comparing countries at the international level. Could we add that stat as a line under the cases per million map? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 18:54, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Added the cases per million data along with a table showing recoveries and deaths in each province.UmpireRay (talk) 23:39, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. Thanks! (One query - is there a « rowspan » code in the « Ref » box in the top row? It’s displacing one of the references. ) Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 00:02, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Total cases chart: please add a column for the numerical history of total deaths

As has been done e.g. for the cases charts for Italy and UK:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_data/Italy_medical_cases_chart&oldid=946194252

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_data/United_Kingdom_medical_cases_chart&oldid=946201520

CountMacula (talk) 20:45, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Media

I've created this new section: there has been some confusion expressed on social media about what has happened to local news broadcasts on CBC and I think we can be of some service. In fact, I think we could offer some useful content on paywall suspensions etc. too. I don't think Media belongs under Private sector/Business practices because of course CBC (and some other media) aren't private. thanks, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:21, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dodgy references

The timetable list of cases and death seems to have some dodgy references and should use official sources only instead of some third party site. Krazytea(talk) 01:55, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Somehow the official Government of Canada reference and site only appears on this page once...[3]. Krazytea(talk) 02:04, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Krazytea, what references are you finding dodgy? Most references are from Global News and CTV News. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 06:26, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For the timetable the chief reference is a link to Chinese website, this should be the authoritative source for list of cases. We should be using official Health Canada and provincial numbers only. [4] Krazytea(talk) 15:02, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

fix reference

Ref #193, at the end of Manitoba, is incorrectly dated January 3, 1933. It should be dated March 15, 2020.

Please fix this. 2607:FEA8:1DDF:FEE1:9C97:AD4:C28A:82B8 (talk) 08:48, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I believe we should have a passage or small section related to attacks against Asian Canadians as outlined in https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/koreans-montreal-safety-warning-1.5501963 . Should it be a separate little section? As you see at the end of the article this is not just a Montreal or Quebec problem and Dr. Tam had previously warned about it. I am not saying we give it undue weight but it is part of the story. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:36, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe add this here Xenophobia and racism related to the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic ? --hroest 20:09, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done per Hannes, above. It's there already. That's fine. I don't want to give undue weight to it as Canadians are mostly very good about this sort of thing. If we ever get a Social response section we could mention very briefly with perhaps a piped link to the Canada subsection. Thanks Hannes, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Number of tests

@UmpireRay: I've added the number of tests to date to the lead as that seems to be critical info. Should that be in a data table? I know they are doing that in the Italian article. Is it there and I just don't know how to read it? thanks for your work on the data! Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:57, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Shawn in Montreal: Thanks for the suggestion. Since there is no good data I'm aware of for testing by date, and many provinces aren't updating those numbers regularly, I will add the available testing data to the cases by province table. Thanks for all your work on this article! UmpireRay (talk) 21:29, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You too, my friend.Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:33, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2020

In the "deaths per day" graph juat above "External Links", the y-axis needs reformatting. Reads 0 0 1 1 2 ... Should be 0 0.5 1.0 1.5 2.0 ... 142.165.171.147 (talk) 21:46, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Two sections now complete for add-on, plus final post

This will be my last post here, until WP policy ceases to be violated by this decision. Sorry for the delay. As it happens, I am in the midst of some firsthand experience with current flight changes and border controls. (Among other things, I can personally confirm the halving of WestJet's domestic flights.)

I post here primarily to give you the two sections I had been working on previously, updated to the current date. (Looking at the preview, it seems to be interpreting my formatting for the raw sections, so I will add another section division for the remainder of this post, after the sections.) I suggest you insert "Epidemiology" as a major section either immediately before or immediately after "Timeline" -- ie. either first or second in the article below the ToC. This section also duplicates and summarizes several details from the "Cases by province" section, which can now be deleted. I suggest inserting "Transportation impact" just above "Economic impact". I have also transferred the first paragraph of "Business practices" to "Transportation impact".

In passing, a few quick suggestions.

  • "Layoffs" really should be expanded by someone. (Air Canada - https://globalnews.ca/news/6706293/coronavirus-air-canada-layoffs-union/ ) Add store closures, with notes about which stores are still paying their employees (and especially for how long -- keep track of this, they won't be able to do it for the full closure period.)
  • In "Business practices", many grocery stores have stopped issuing rain checks, based on their inability to keep core items on the shelves. Hours have also changed: usually shortened, with one dedicated seniors' shopping hour at the beginning (to minimize chances of contagion). Mall food courts are roping off seating areas and restricting business to takeout only. The numbers of shops which have closed is staggering.
  • One upcoming change in "Transportation restrictions" involves physical barriers on city bus to keep passengers away from the driver -- keep an eye on this one. (Halifax has already done it -- this is in the article, separate paragraph because I expect additions.) The reasoning here is that if one driver gets infected, everyone who comes into contact with them will also be at risk for transmission ... including all the other drivers. (In some cases, fares may be dropped altogether during this period, since keeping passengers away from the driver also blocks fareboxes.)
  • For Timeline revision, this reference gives a nice example of relative importance of different events. That is one where you will have to be absolutely ruthless in cutting down. https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/tracking-the-coronavirus-from-wuhan-china-to-canadas-capital-a-covid-19-timeline

Full text of "Epidemiology" follows below.

Epidemiology

With its relatively high rates of immigration [1], personal travel, [2] and international tourism, [2][3] Canada is a bellwether country for reflecting global infection patterns. Hidden COVID-19 spread in other countries has come to light as a result of cases in Canada with travel history to that country. [4][5][6]

All of Canada's cases for the first month of reported cases were directly related to international travel. [7] Community spread did not begin until March 5. [8] By March 6, most of Canada's new cases were linked to the U.S.[9]

Transmission

The first COVID-19 case in Canada was reported by health authorities in Toronto on January 25, [7] approximately one month after the first Wuhan cases were reported by health authorities. [10] A patient with a travel history to Wuhan reported to Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre with a fever and respiratory symptoms. She had taken appropriate precautions during her travel and was immediately taken into isolation. [7] The virus was identified as SARS-CoV-2, the same virus as had caused the outbreak in Wuhan. [7][11] Canadian scientists from Sunnybrook isolated the virus by March 12. [12][13]

The first COVID-19 case in British Columbia was reported on January 28. It was also linked to travel in Wuhan, and was completely contained. [7][11]

The first case outside either Ontario or British Columbia was reported in Montreal, Quebec, on February 28, in a patient who had returned from Iran. [14] Toronto had reported its first case linked to Iran travel two days earlier. [7] Travel-related cases to Egypt, India, the U.S., France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and the UK were reported during the following week. [7]

Canada's first case in Alberta was also its first case in a person who was repatriated from the Grand Princess. [15] During the following week, travel-related cases were reported in every part of Canada except the far north.

Statistics

As of March 20, Canada has reported 873 cases, with 12 deaths.[link to match infobox] Canada recorded its first COVID-19 death on March 9. [7]

Five men are reported dead. In seven cases, gender has not been released. [7] In the global pattern to date, more men have died than women. [16] However, most cases have not yet been resolved, so gender-based conclusions are preliminary.[link to match infobox]

All Canadians who died of COVID-19 were over 50 years of age. [7] One was in his 50s, while another was in his 60s; all others were older. [7] Seven residents of the Lynn Valley care centre have died. [7] Globally, 80% of those who have died of COVID-19 were over 60. [17] Details of underlying health conditions are only available for three cases; but the man who died in his 50s did have underlying health conditions. [7]

Very few Canadian children have been reported with COVID-19. Previous research from China suggests that while children generally have milder symptoms, children under school age may be particularly vulnerable and may fall seriously ill. [18]

"Epidemiology" section done. "Transportation restriction" section follows. In general, I listed airlines in order of severity of route changes. I looked for specific information about loyalty programs, and found very little. Keep an eye on this -- it is likely to change.

Transportation impact

Air

Porter Airlines has suspended all service starting March 21. [1] WestJet has cancelled all its international flights, including to the U.S., starting March 22, [2] and has halved its domestic service. [3] Transat has been reducing flights, but has set no deadline. [4] Air Canada has reduced domestic flights [5] and suspended most of its international flights, but will maintain "air-bridges" until April 30 to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Delhi, Tokyo, Hong Kong, and 13 U.S. locations to allow Canadians to return home. [6]

Smaller airlines are consolidating services or cancelling routes based on customer demand. As of March 19, Air North has cancelled most of its Vancouver flights, and consolidated its northern Yukon route, but it has extended the validity of its flight passes by two months. [7] In-flight service has also been reduced, and lounges closed. [8]

Most Canadian airlines are temporarily waiving cancellation fees and one-time change fees. [4] Most are offering flight credits instead of refunds. [4] There is some controversy over higher prices being charged for the changed flights, since changes are being made closer to departure. [9] WestJet has stated that it is lowering the price on inbound international flights; while Sunwing will allow one-time changes at no additional cost. [9]

Rail

VIA Rail cancelled all overnight trains except the Churchill, which will no longer be offering sleeper service. [10] The co-branded Amtrak Maple Leaf is cancelled. [10] Originally VIA Rail halved the number of its Corridor [11] trains, [12] but as of March 19, only fifteen Corridor trains are still running. [10] Other routes are still running on a once-a-week basis. [10]

All VIA Rail business lounges are closed. [10] All VIA 1 service is suspended. [10] Economy passengers will receive a complementary bottle of water and snack. [10]

VIA Rail is temporarily waiving cancellation fees and one-time change fees. [10] Cancellations will result in a full refund. [10]

These restrictions hit VIA Rail less than a week after it was able to restore most of the rail service cancelled due to anti-pipeline solidarity protests. [13][14]

Ground

Greyhound Lines cancelled services between Canada and the U.S. after the border was closed to non-essential traffic. [15] https://www.greyhound.com/en/help-and-info/travel-info/schedule-service-changes Passengers can choose between a one-time complementary change or travel credit. [16] As of March 20, other Canadian Greyhound routes are not affected.

Halifax Transit is waiving fares on its entire system, including ferries, to help maintain separation between drivers and passengers.[17]

Yellow Cab Halifax drivers are now required to wear gloves and masks while on duty, and to wipe down equipment as frequently as possible. Passengers will no longer be allowed to sit in the front seat. [18]

As of March 20, rental car companies are not yet affected.

Ferries

BC Ferries is currently operating on a reduced schedule. [19] All food service except for vending machines has been suspended. [20] As of March 17, BC ferries will allow passengers to stay with their vehicles on the car deck. Transport Canada regulations previously did not allow this for safety reasons. [21]

Washington State Ferries service between Anacortes, Washington and Sidney, British Columbia and Clipper Ferry [22] service between Seattle and Victoria, British Columbia were suspended after the border was closed to non-essential traffic. [23][24] The Black Ball Ferry Line will suspend service between Port Angeles, Washington and Victoria, British Columbia starting March 30. [25]

Transportation section done.

Remainder of final post

I have carefully kept these sections separate from what follows below, to make life easier on those assessing the possible addition. I am terrible at formatting references, so I have listed numbers with associated urls below. (It would have been ten times easier and faster to just post it; hence the delay.)

Unfortunately the same skills which have allowed me to distill what was happening into a concise article and now a concise section unfortunately also allow me to recognize the truth behind what is being claimed for this sweeping WP action.

Specifically, the semi-protection, as applied here, is an illicit decision. The decision imposed upon this article specifically violates WP policy, and was made in the face of evidence which did not support the underlying assumption that IPs were being disruptive to accurate information.

The administrators knew this. The awareness of policy violation was specifically stated right near the beginning of the first of the discussion threads which used to be linked directly in the above posts. Further down, you will see a comment that given the violation, the original discussion thread should be allowed to grow stale and disappear, rather than being closed -- and the key decision was taken in a separate thread (also linked above), which was open for only two hours and 15 administrators' comments.

El_C is *not* an uninvolved administrator in this context. They are the person who closed the key decision discussion after those two hours. WP:SNOW was not intended to apply where insufficient time is given for a reasonable cross-section of opinions, especially where previous discussion has indicated that sweeping decisions might not be appropriate, mandated, or even WP-legal. It is not at all common or personally easy to make comments after threads are closed, especially among those qualified as administrators; yet there are a few such comments below the closure. For someone at managerial-equivalent level to make that kind of comment at all requires both independence of thought and a rare courage.

(In passing, I do find it amusing that my posts in response to being slapped in the face are considered "hostile", and that I am the one repeatedly being told to assume good faith -- when clearly the same is not assumed of IPs. I can only guess that the poster who wrote that either has absolutely no previous experience with determined satyagraha, or is incapable of recognizing it when they see it.)

I apologize to those who have worked hard on this article for having to leave this article (although at least I have managed to offer a solid middle!). I will continue to work on various unprotected COVID articles as I find them, for as long as I am permitted. I was working on the U.S. one until it was semi-protected, but that action was not sweeping the way the current one is, and did have disruption issues due to the underlying politics.

There are many who have wondered why I don't just set aside this issue in a time of crisis. For my part, within three generations of my family, I count at least 20 times of crisis in which we were involved: at least two of which literally decimated (killed off more than 10%) of the related societies (in one case, of a country). Among other things, I grew up knowing firsthand what smallpox scars look like -- my mother had it, was blinded by it, and nearly lost her life to it. It is possible that I have a slightly longer perspective on crisis and the aftereffects of crisis as a result.

So to finish, let's just say that I think it at least as important to preserve societal values for the time *after* the pandemic ends as it is to give accurate information during the pandemic. The seeds of future crises are most often laid in the way we choose to deal with the current crisis. Thus I cannot continue with this article while it remains illicitly semi-protected. I leave my trust in those who remain. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 11:51, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:COVID-19_pandemic_in_Canada&oldid=946476799"