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September 16

What was the occupation of "timer" circa 1902?

My local newspaper, the Canton Repository, is running a series of front pages of the last 200 years for each day, to commemorate the paper's 200th anniversary. The Sept. 4 one was a front page from 1902 speaking of various Labor Day activities and other things involving work; a good taste of Labor Day in Canton back then.

One headline intrigued me; it mentioned timers seeking more pay and that those in Massillon and Alliance made a couple cents more an hour. I've tried to search on Google, but while it could be buried deep, I can't seem to find anything when I ask what the occupation of "timer" is. I'm guessing it has to do with train switches and determining how on schedule they are, things which would be all automated now (and not as common anyway with much less train travel than back then) but i really have little clue.

So, I turn to the fine people here - does anyone here know what the occupation of Timer was? Thanks.Somebody or his brother (talk) 21:47, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I wish people didn't ask these sort of questions as it makes me feel so old... This was about TINNERS not timers. A person who works with tin or tin plate. Don't appologies, I have the ~~sanne~~ same problem with printed letters.--Aspro (talk) 22:23, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Wikipedia has a disambiguation page on tinners, there are two such jobs; one was a tin smith the other was someone involved in tin mining. Also relevant to this question is the concept of kerning, look up "kerning goofs" on Google. You'll see lots of fun examples (words like "click" look like "dick" and things like that). --Jayron 32 23:35, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I thought of that too (being half Cornish), but I had a look at our Canton, Ohio article, and there are no tin mines there, nor ever have been. Therefore, tinsmith it is. Alansplodge (talk) 10:23, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Still, thinking "timer" was a job is a reasonable misinterpretation. In 1902 a computer was the name of an occupation, not a gizmo that we use to communicate around the world :) SemanticMantis (talk) 22:57, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for understanding; yes, being legally blind makes things very interesting at times. I guess I just tried too hard to make it seem like it had to be vastly different than what we use the word for now.Somebody or his brother (talk) 01:24, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

September 17

Standing transportation

Recent studies show that sitting is unhealthy, while standing is better. Unfortunately, it is rare, in any form of transportation, where you can stand. There's the Segway scooter and other scooters, but you can't go very far in those. You can stand on a subway, bus, or train, although people might look at you like you were insane if there are seats available. Standing on a plane is definitely out, as those narrow aisles mean that one person standing up blocks all passage up and down that aisle. What I'm most interested in is cars and trucks (particularly for long haul truckers). Is there any design that will allow them to stand while driving, or even as a passenger ? Seat belts seem to require that you be seated, but I imagine they could be redesigned. Commercial truck cabs seem to be tall enough that a person could stand up in them without raising the roof (you might need to lower the floor, though). Similarly, is there any motor vehicle where you can lie down safely while somebody else drives ? (The driver lying down would be bad, as it would tend to promote sleep.) Obviously if you are in an RV you can lie down, but without the equivalent of a seat belt, this is dangerous, while the vehicles is in motion. StuRat (talk) 16:07, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On many transit systems, such as the New York City Subway, and the Tokyo Metro, standing is normal. At many times of the day, far more people stand than sit. These trains often have straps, poles, and handles for people to hold on when standing, for safety. Many buses do as well. See here for an example. --Jayron 32 16:18, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Don't some urban package delivery vehicles and garbage trucks allow accommodate standing driving (to facilitate quick entry and exit)? Hayttom (talk) 10:23, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding lying down, many trains have Sleeping cars, or they used to, when people actually rode trains long distance. --Jayron 32 16:19, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I wish long plane trips had the option to lie down. It doesn't seem to me that it takes up any more space for people to lie down than to sit, if the cabin is rearranged in the proper way, with people on shelves stacked one above the other. StuRat (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You said what the problem with that idea is though...you wish you had the option to lie down. If they built the cabin space for people to lie flat (or to stand up, for that matter) - then there would be no option to sit down - and again, you'd be unhappy. (Well, if not you, then at least quite a few people).

That's really indicative of the general problem here. It would be relatively easy to construct vehicles that would be driven by people standing up...and it would be fairly easy to make them for people laying down - but building something that accomodates sitting and standing - or laying down and standing is really difficult. Even if you managed it, the vehicle would have to be GIGANTIC. So given the choice, they pick the most popular stance - which is sitting down. SteveBaker (talk) 18:58, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I meant I'd like to have the option of buying either a siting or reclining ticket. I'd be fine with reclining for the entire flight. I am prone to DVT/blood clots, so it would be much safer for me. StuRat (talk) 03:22, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Except in the case of buses, where you can sometimes find homeless bums sleeping on the chairs... and where you can (technically) drive the bus standing up if it's low enough, provided that you have a stool.... (oh, and BTW, how do you drive standing up?? Most vehicles have two foot pedals, which makes that very hard.) Epic Genius (talk) 19:12, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

it is rare, in any form of transportation, where you can stand – Commuters of public bus, commuter rail, or subways (basically, anyone in an urban area or within walking distance of a transit system) get ample opportunities to stand.

Also, you can lie down in the backseat of most cars. Epic Genius (talk) 16:43, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The backseats of most cars are entirely too small for an adult to lie down, at least without your knees being bent. Also, it would be unsafe in an accident, without modified seat belts that could restrain you in that position. StuRat (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify, there's nothing inherently unhealthy about sitting per se. Sitting#Health_risks - it's sitting for "prolonged periods" without alternating with standing/walking/laying down/doing things that has risks. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:51, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. People are actually "designed" for sitting, but only for a few minutes at a time, it seems. StuRat (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find any kind of passenger cars or trucks that allow for standing drivers, and that is and interesting notion to think about for long-haul truckers. Here's [1] a journal article documenting the health risks of sitting while commuting by motor vehicle, and it they come to some fairly negative conclusions.

But many people ride a bicycle to get around, with a functional maximum of around 10 miles each way to work and back [2]. That way not only are you not "sitting", you're also getting exercise. In England and Wales, the average distance to work is 15.0 km, and much more of them could be cycling more often [3]. In the USA, as of 2003 [4], over 50% of people traveled <10 miles to work, and they could often be cycling too. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:51, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and you can ride a bike in a standing position, too. Still, not practical for long distances or in bad weather. StuRat (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Standing while driving a vehicle strikes me as being unsafe. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:04, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Only unsafe because they haven't designed a safe way to do so. There are cars designed for parapalegics, who can't use their feet, so they already have a system in place for operating the accelerator and brakes without the feet. As mentioned already, you would also need a way to restrain a standing person in an accident. StuRat (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a New York Times article about a type of truck designed to be driven standind up. [5]. WP:WHAAOE: Divco. --Xuxl (talk) 11:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A military Humvee (not the commercial Hummer) was designed for operation while standing. With a fording adapter, you could drive it completely submerged in water (except for the top of the adapter, of course). That meant that you could get down to where you had to stand up or you'd be well underwater. The standing throttle is a bar on the wheel, similar to where most cars have windshield wiper sticks. I never drove one underwater, but my Humvee had a fording adapter, so I technically could have if I really wanted to clean out all the gunk when I was done. 209.149.113.66 (talk) 19:45, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting ! Wouldn't you think Ford Motor Company would have invented that system ? :-) StuRat (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To get back to the long-haul trucking part of the questions, I think most of the 18-wheeler type rigs have a sleeper compartment behind the driver's seat in the cab. These are not usually intended to be used while another person is driving, but it wouldn't be too hard to design some sort of restraint system is case of accident. The main issue is that the whole long-haul trucking industry is designed around a single operator in the cab taking regular (and regulated) breaks, and not a two-person crew alternating between driving and resting. This does happen in long-distance driving competitions, though (see, e.g., Tim Cahill's book Road Fever). --Xuxl (talk) 11:25, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Standing nonstop also has problems. What you really need is a way to allow workers/commuters to (safely) change positions from time to time. 64.235.97.146 (talk) 16:06, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As far as a standing seat belt, I'm thinking more of an elastic mesh or net than a single belt, attached to a bar that plugs in on one side. This net could run from the armpits down to the hips, with the arms over the top of it. Has anyone invented anything like that ? StuRat (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen a harness for children that lets them stand up and move around a bit in a car, while still being anchored, something along the lines of this [6]. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Despite the Jeep brand on that harness, I don't think it's for use inside a vehicle. That looks like a standard harness for walking a toddler, the equivalent of a dog leash. StuRat (talk) 03:18, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A gondola is driven by a standing gondolier.—Wavelength (talk) 04:53, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As is a steam locomotive. Tevildo (talk) 11:17, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Passengers stand in an elevator (a lift), on an escalator, and on a moving walkway. A rider stands on roller skates, ice skates, water skis, snow skis, a skateboard, or a surfboard. (Astronauts float in outer space.) Do passengers stand in the basket of a balloon?

—Wavelength (talk) 14:36, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

September 19

Controlling People?

We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Is it true that, when it comes to controlling people, just trick them into doing what you say, guilt trip them, lie nicely to their faces, make them believe that you are the master, also get them to think that anyone who does not do what you say is being a spoiled, stupid, brat, etc. Is that true? Or is it simply the wishes of a Machiavellian personality, that has come to life? Also, and this is a idea that just popped into my head, if someone does not do what you say, they are fighting for control and also seek to rule over others, and thus must be rendered harmless, and if you are able, with no risk to yourself, or anyone else, to prevent making new enemies of your mates. Is that true too, or is it the work of a twisted mind? Just asking some simple questions, folks! 2.98.92.28 (talk) 15:12, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a chat forum, please see the page instructions. You have aready mentioned Machiavelli, do yo have a factual question or need access to one of its references? Feel free to ask a specific question in a new section, or below the closed area. Otherwise this sort of quest is better for chat fora. μηδείς (talk) 17:29, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Use of Dolomite powder

Is Dolomitic Limestone powder the product to use in 'open pit' latrines to reduce smells & fly's and to accelerate decomposition? For TILDES — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluebottle103 (talk • contribs) 23:37, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not really - what you want is quicklime (calcium oxide), which is (traditionally) manufactured from limestone. Tevildo (talk) 01:54, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

By the way , Bluebottle103, if "For TILDES" was an attempt to sign your question, you need to use four instances of the character called a Tilde ('~'), thus: ~~~~. Cheers, --ColinFine (talk) 19:55, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

September 20

General Trias

Is General Trias in Cavite, Phillippines is safe place , and how affluent is it ? AttriycaTreylopk (talk) 19:13, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

After you have read General Trias, Cavite, let us know if you have further questions. μηδείς (talk) 01:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

September 21

@@ Line 102: / Line 102: @@
 = September 20 =
-== Is it convincing or not for the article about cooking and aging? ==
-The article is here [http://www.thriveology123.com/2015/07/is-your-bbq-aging-you-3-simple-grilling-hacks/ Is Your BBQ Aging You? 3 Simple Grilling Hacks].  I noticed that people in US and Canada seem to BBQ quite frequently. And people out there seem to age faster as opposed to people live in East Asia. As far as I know most East Asian don't eat that much BBQ. So I guess the cooking is part of the cause. I would like to know if such an article (or any similar article like that) look convincing or not? And why if that's not convincing? Would you make a change after you reading it? Do you think sharing such information to friends is a bad idea? Were you aware of it before? - [[User:Justin545|Justin545]] ([[User talk:Justin545|talk]]) 10:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
-:They seem to be talking about outdoor grilling (fast, at high temperatures) more than BBQ (slow, at low temperatures).  I think their arguments are sound (except that the marinade might add too much salt and/or sugar).  Also, you don't need to precook food, just keep the grill temperature low (if cooking over coals, wait until the flames go out, if over propane, turn the flame size down).
-:However, the portion size and choice of food, such as beef and pork, versus what Asians are more likely to eat (fish and veggies) probably has more to do with why Americans and Canadians are less healthy and don't live as long.
-:And to cook food in as healthy a way as possible, steam it.  You can do this on a grill, if you have the right equipment.  I use a 42 quart stock (Grand Gourmet brand) stainless steel pot with a steamer basket, and cook outside over a propane burner.  (I put the food in a bowl inside the steamer basket, so drippings don't get into the water, find their way to the edge and burn there.)
-:And yes, I was aware that burnt food is unhealthy, and I cringe every time I see them creating a "blackened" crust on cooking shows. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 14:46, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
-::Since the OP mentioned East Asia, we should remember as our article mentions, [[pork#Asian pork consumption|pork]] is actually an extremely popular meat among many Chinese, although obviously only the wealthier ones can afford to eat it a lot (then again if you aren't near the coast, you may not be able to afford fish much either). [http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21636507-chinas-insatiable-appetite-pork-symbol-countrys-rise-it-also] suggests the average consumption is higher among Chinese (I'm fairly sure this means in the PRC, perhaps including HK and Macau) than Americans. China does after all have a "strategic pork reserve" and consume over half the world's pork. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 16:08, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
-::: So is there any evidence that pork or beef is related to aging? For example, high temperature cooking produces more [[Advanced glycation end-product|AGEs]] (as mentioned in the external-linked article) which is actually related to aging. Cite the wiki page: "These harmful compounds (AGEs) can affect nearly every type of cell and molecule in the body and are thought to be one factor in aging and in some age-related chronic diseases. They are also believed to play a causative role in the blood-vessel complications of diabetes mellitus. AGEs are seen as speeding up oxidative damage to cells and in altering their normal behavior." - [[User:Justin545|Justin545]] ([[User talk:Justin545|talk]]) 00:13, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
-:Don't lump Canada in there.  We are near teh top of the [[List of countries by life expectancy|list in life expectancy]]. [[User:Mingmingla|Mingmingla]] ([[User talk:Mingmingla|talk]]) 17:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
-::Ok, but I was talking about the appearance (not how long to live) in terms of aging. North American seem to get wrinkles younger and look old earlier. (Not to be offensive just try to describe what I saw :) - [[User:Justin545|Justin545]] ([[User talk:Justin545|talk]]) 23:59, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
-*This user has been trolling the ref desks since 2008, and is apparently a sockpuppet of Sagitarian Mily Way, who is currently under discussion on the ref desk talk page, and at [[WP:AN]].  See, for example, this [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&diff=prev&oldid=212245383 100K+ edit] regarding esoteric physics. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 02:05, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
 == General Trias ==