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Requests for arbitration

Arbitration Committee proceedings
Request name Motions Initiated Votes
Lugnuts Motions 8 June 2022 3/0/0
Johnpacklambert   8 June 2022 0/0/0
[edit]
Open cases
Case name Links Evidence due Prop. Dec. due
Venezuelan politics (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 20 Apr 2024 04 May 2024
Mzajac (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) — Case suspended
[edit]
Recently closed cases (Past cases)
Case name Closed
Conflict of interest management 13 Apr 2024

Currently, no requests for clarification or amendment are open.

No arbitrator motions are currently open.

Lugnuts

Initiated by Fram (talk) at 09:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Fram

While the current ANI discussion linked above is about 2 editors, I decided to separate them into 2 ArbCom requests because the issues with both go back for many years, and very often aren't about both together but about their separate editing issues. Specifically for Lugnuts: he has a block log starting in 2010, with 2 blocks for personal attacks from this year[2]. He has 2 Wikipedia:Editing restrictions, one from 2021 and one from 2022. It is clear that the issues are recent and recurring. As an example of behavioural issues from this year: Lugnuts has a signature that causes Linter errors. This was raised in January, at User_talk:Lugnuts#Please take a moment to update your signature. Only after this was repeated in February, April and May did Lugnuts finally answer, to refuse this. At User_talk:Lugnuts#Signature from April 2022 he said he'll look into it after 2 other people asked him to, but nothing changed. Then at User_talk:Lugnuts#Your signature and lint errors another editor asked to change it, only to be met with "First, you didn't say please.". That editor then tried to clean up some of the Linter errors, but was reverted. The discussion with Lugnuts at User_talk:Lugnuts#note shows the patronizing, unhelpful attitude. This is in itself just a minor incident, but it shows that the problems that lead to blocks, or the other incivility in the current ANI thread (or the examples given there) are not confined to that thread or situation, but are happening way too often.

The issues with both their editing and their attitude have been going on for many years, and don't seem to get resolved by ANI discussions, so it is time for ArbCom to take a look and see what (if anything) needs to be done. Fram (talk) 09:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another example of Lugnuts' approach to respecting consensus and collaboration. In February 2022 he got an editing restriction on cosmetic edits, because he very often used these to be the "most recent" contributor; when someone changed a page he had created, he made very soon afterwards a "null" edit to be once again the most recent editor of that page. So what does he do now? He doesn't make null edits, he removes perfectly valid redlinks, again just to be the most recent editor. Examples from today: [3][4][5], ... Fram (talk) 09:37, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Wugapodes. When you have editors with multiple editing restrictions and blocks, and still they get an ANI thread, and still the community can't really resolve this as opinions are clearly divided, then I (and at least some others) think it is ArbCom time. I mean, that's why we pay you, right? :-) And as the issues seem to be different for the two editors, and previous restrictions weren't caused by their interaction, and there are clearly active issues beyond their interaction, it seemed to me more logical to look at each individually, not just at the play between them. Yes, that will mean that some bits of evidence will be entered in both cases; but that also will mean that we don't get an artificially restricted scope where evidence of more general problems with these editors can't be discussed (e.g. Lugnuts' signature has nothing to do with AfD or his interaction with JPL, so bringing it up as evidence would be strange). Fram (talk) 15:42, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just a note that this is now the second time that Lugnuts has tried to scare me off with their supposed contacts with T&S. I have no idea what they are trying to achieve by corresponding with T&S about issues they don't seem to have tried to resolve at ANI or ArbCom first, it's not as if there is anything off-wiki or real-life involved in this. But it is yet another example of Lugnuts' manner of dealing with criticism. Arbcom seems set on restricting this to deletion-related behaviour: if accepted as that, I guess the other behavioural problems highlighted here will need to get an ANI discussion instead. Seems not to be the most efficient way to deal with this though. Fram (talk) 08:22, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Lugnuts

Hi. The changes to WP:NSPORT have been huge to WP, with the whole process of changing some, part, or all of it, going on for years. The RfC was a headache for all. I added a few comments on it, but didn't get dragged in to the minutiae or bludgeon the debate. Most of my work has been in this subject area, so naturally I have an interest in these changes, and the knock-on affect of work I've spent time on. The impact of the change has been meant opening the floodgates at AfD, with the assumption that someone who was notable x months ago is no longer notable in any form following the RfC, with deletion being the only outcome to some.

My last block was enacted after one admin read my comment of JPL not doing a WP:BEFORE as an aspersion. In the ongoing ANI thread, there are still concerns about JPL's before-work (or lack of). You can see in that section on my talkpage what other editors thought of that block, along with comments on their talkpage. That same admin was adamant to take me to ANI even though I answered their question. They then make multiple false claims (aspersions) about me in that ANI thread.

On the topic of JPL, it's incredible to believe they are NOT making an active attempt to target articles I've created. From the stats on my talkpage, 91 AfDs started this year, with 41 for pages I started. But they state "There is no attempt to single out articles created by you for deletion". If it was the other way round, would people believe I'm not targeting an individual? The two-way I-Ban was suggested and got some support for implementation, and would be something I would be happy with supporting. Infact, I think I did support that suggestion at the ANI thread. I think Star Mississippi suggested it first (apologies if I'm wrong here).

However, within FIVE days of the ANI thread being started, Fram suggests Arbcom before coming here a few days later, with the pretext of this not being possible to be solved by the community. This user has previously stated that "I have no beef with Lugnuts", which does not seem to be true. I have an emails to and from the Wikimedia Trust going back about 18 months with my concerns about their conduct towards me. Happy to share that with any Arbs in good standing, if needed.

Finally, Harry mentions something about automated editing. While I'm pretty sure he's not saying that my edits are automated, I just want to clarify that I've never used automation for any article creation on WP. Yes, I've created lots of articles, usually in batches, but everything I've ever done has been in line with the notabilty requirements at the time, and done manually. Times have moved on, and mass-creation is frowned upon, so I've accepted the restrictions on doing that. Thank you. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 19:24, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Barkeep49 - Just sent. I marked it for your attention too if that helps. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:03, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by S Marshall

Please will the committee accept a case called "Conduct at AfD", with Lugnuts, John Pack Lambert, and Ten Pound Hammer as parties.—S Marshall T/C 11:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • (Later) Black Kite is certainly right to say that it'll develop into inclusionist/deletionist mudslinging. Separating the cases won't stop this happening. The triple-AN/I that's currently visible from orbit is bursting with exactly that mudslinging. If the committee takes this case, then the Arbcom case pages will serve as mud-containers for a while --- hugely to the benefit of the encyclopaedia. I know that there are big differences between the cases, but there are three key commonalities: positions at extreme ends of the inclusionist/deletionist spectrum; prolific or borderline compulsive use or overuse of the venue; and behaviours which don't stop despite clear community consensus that they're unacceptable.—S Marshall T/C 12:49, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just a minor point about case titling: Not all the conduct we're asking you to consider took place in 2022. The matter of the linter errors created by Lugnuts' signature and his disregard of requests to change it is, I think, too simple to give you very much trouble. You could deal with that by summary motion or task the community to deal with it at AN/I. I don't think you need to reflect that issue in the case title even if you do choose to deal with it. I feel that the challenge for Arbcom is to unpick the behaviour in deletion disputes.—S Marshall T/C 11:05, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Barkeep requests evidence that TPH's behaviour in deletion-related discussions is a problem, so I present as sample discussions Wikipedia:Requests for comment/TenPoundHammer, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive752#User:TenPoundHammer, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive661#User:TenPoundHammer, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive767#TenPoundHammer, AfD and WP:IDONTUNDERSTANDIT, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive233#Back off the Hammer, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive745#TenPoundHammer's article redirections (please note a common thread with the JPL and Lugnuts matter there: conflict around redirection-as-deletion), and all seven of TPH's requests for adminship. There are a number of other similar discussions with which I shall not bore you. These culminate in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive974#TenPoundHammer in which TPH is indefinitely banned from all deletion activities, and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive314#Topic ban appeal, part... II? III? MCVI? in which TPH's topic ban is lifted on the strength of his representation that I understand why my topic-ban was imposed in the first place, and I will chalk it up to an overzealous attempt to clear out cleanup categories which led to a great deal of reckless nominations. I admit I've touched XFD less in general, but my interactions in that namespace have been a lot smoother. I have also shifted my focus toward article creation and improvement, as seen by the large number of good articles I've passed through since then. I think that my above-mentioned method of watchlisting articles or other content that I find suitable for deletion, and watching them for a period of time before determining whether or not to nominate, will help me take a more measured, uncontroversial approach to the issues that led to this ban in the first place.
    You will then want evidence that the community isn't able to deal with it ourselves. Please imagine me pointing at the AN/I thread in which the community can't coalesce around a remedy and then looking at you with one raised eyebrow.
    At issue here, with all three of TPH, JPL and Lugnuts, is low-level behaviour where no one individual smoking-gun diff gives grounds for a topic ban. In all three cases the behaviour is very, very prolific and uses up colossal quantities of volunteer time. All three have very high edit counts and are, to varying but appreciable degrees, popular users with supporters.
    Finally, I feel that we need your leadership here because of how the disputed behaviours interact with the proposed Universal Code of Conduct. This is a test case for the first limb of UCoC 3.3: The repeated arbitrary or unmotivated removal of any content without appropriate discussion or providing explanation. Do the PRODs or redirections invoke this clause? How should we apply it in this case? If you do take this on, then when you make your findings, please would you be very clear and explicit on these points, because on Wikipedia, ad-hoc rulings meant to apply in one case take on the force of precedent, and go from cobweb to cable in about six months.—S Marshall T/C 17:01, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by FOARP

ARBCOM should accept cases related to Lugnuts and JPL individually, and should not be limited to the interactions of these two editors at AFD, as the issues in both cases extend way beyond this limited scope. Furthermore these issues are not only seen at AFD but more generally. Particularly in the case of Lugnuts we have seen a pattern of uncivil behaviour directed at many other editors (not just JPL) and not only at AFD going back multiple years. This conduct is something that blocks and warnings have simply failed to address (as is evidenced by Lugnut's long record of blocks and community sanctions) and for this reason ARBCOM is sadly the only forum that can consider it. FOARP (talk) 11:16, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To re-iterate: the problem particularly with Lugnuts extends way beyond deletion discussions. Blocks and warnings have been deployed but short of an indef block (which admins have until now refused to apply given the fact that Lugnuts is essentially considered unblockable) nothing will change. Only arcom can resolve this. FOARP (talk) 13:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Black Kite

Please don't merge the two cases, it'll just degenerate into another he said/he said mud-slinging fest (not to mention an inclusionist / deletionist one). And of course that means not including Ten Pound Hammer, either. Black Kite (talk) 11:23, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Although even if they're seperated, the statements by User:FOARP sort of give the issue away anyway (Lugnuts must be blocked / JPL is innocent). That's pretty much what you're going to get from editors like this. Good luck. Black Kite (talk) 14:56, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Rhododendrites

[This is relevant to the JPL case, and a TPH case if it emerges, but just leaving it here to avoid duplication]:

There is no shortage of evidence that Lugnuts, JPL, and TPH have all been taken to ANI many times for behavioral issues related to the creation and/or deletion of low quality articles. There's no shortage of evidence that all three have taken up large amounts of time, and that the issues have long persisted. Where this request may fail is (a) figuring out a scope that avoids having a bunch of person-centered cases, and (b) that there have been various restrictions placed on all three AFAIK, so the argument that the community is unable to handle the problem is complicated.

I do think this is an extraordinary situation, though. The extent of polarization and partisanship through every thread about Lugnuts, JPL, or TPH has become overwhelming and impedes both discussion and outcomes. An arbcom case could help to cut through some of that. It's for the same reason that I disagree with Black Kite: they should be merged in part because they're all going to turn into polarized mud-slinging fests anyway, with most of the same people getting involved in all of them, so let's just have one rather than two or three.

Maybe a reasonable scope would be "behavior around mass created articles and deletion discussions". While mass creation doesn't look like it's a big part of the current ANI thread, it runs underneath it (and most of the discussions that deal with Lugnuts, or the various people contending with mass created articles, like JPL). The scale of creation, redirection, unredirection, proposed deletion, deprodding, and nominating for deletion is an exacerbating factor throughout, creating for various editors a sense of either urgency, time wasted, perceived hounding, carelessness, etc. To make things worse, we don't have great best practices for dealing with mass created articles (or for mass creating articles for that matter). ArbCom can't create those best practices, but it can look at what kinds of behaviors go over the lines we do have, and can assess whether the approaches by these three editors are helping or hindering efforts to improve the project in deletion-related areas. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:46, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Statement by Robert McClenon (Lugnuts)

ArbCom should open a single case on Conduct in Deletion Disputes.

There are currently three disputes open at WP:ANI with four principal parties involving conduct in deletion disputes. These cases are continuing to grow, and do not appear to be approaching any readiness for closure. Reasonable closure of these disputes will involve a detailed examination of the conduct of the parties, but that process is better suited for the quasi-judicial process of ArbCom than for community drama. I urge ArbCom to open a consolidated case involving conduct in deletion disputes. The current disputes involve User:Lugnuts, User:Johnpacklambert, User:TenPoundHammer, and User:Alansohn. All of those editors have previously been the subject of controversy, and I ask ArbCom to consider them all as cases that have not been resolved satisfactorily by the community, because the community is not well equipped to deal with long-term complex behavioral disputes and should not be expected to deal with them.

ArbCom should have three objectives in accepting this case:

  • 1. ArbCom should restate, and if necessary clarify, the long-standing policies and guidelines that apply to deletion discussions, including verifiability and notability, and that civility is the fourth pillar of Wikipedia.
  • 2. ArbCom should review the conduct of the parties and determine whether they have violated these policies and guidelines, and impose appropriate restrictions.
  • 3. Because disputes about conduct in deletion discussions have been and continuing to be too common, ArbCom should develop an appropriate set of guidelines for ArbCom discretionary sanctions for editors whose conduct in deletion discussions (whether in starting too many of them or in disrupting them) has been disruptive.

Robert McClenon (talk) 16:19, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Additions to Statement by Robert McClenon

Long disputes about conduct by certain editors in deletion discussions happen every few months. Perhaps I have a minority opinion that the community is not the best forum to deal with complex conduct disputes with history going back years. My view is that conduct disputes involving extended review of history are better handled by a more deliberative process than the community drama boards. In these cases, I am asking ArbCom to do or delegate the dirty work of reviewing the history because the community should not be expected or required to do that. In areas where conduct disputes are too common, ArbCom has assigned the dirty work of reviewing the history to a corps of dedicated volunteer administrators at Arbitration Enforcement. Disputes about conduct in deletion discussions are sufficiently and unfortunately common enough that ArbCom should assign that dirty work to administrators who will take the time to review the history of any disruption and take appropriate action. The community does its best to handle these disputes, but the community is not really the best forum when Arbitration Enforcement can be made available.

If ArbCom accepts this case, I request permission to provide another 300 words. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JoelleJay

I outlined my thoughts on this here (let me know if I should copy and paste to this section instead). I would support either separate or combined cases. I do think some of the straightforward civility issues can be dealt with by the community. JoelleJay (talk) 17:16, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ

To expand upon the issue of Lugnuts' signature mentioned by User:Fram, multiple users have been asking them to replace it for the last 5 years: 2021, 2019, 2017, 2018. Since 2017, a group of gnomes have been reaching out to users who had obsolete tags in their signatures and given them replacements. Nearly all of them have been helpful and changed it. It is just a one minute process. Lugnuts however has been pointily refusing to change their signature, forcing gnomes and bots to clean up after them. This is especially problematic when they comment at WP:RFPPI, which is transcluded in multiple templates, and in WP:DYK nomination pages, which are in template namespace. Templates with Lint errors affect a lot of pages, so Lint error reports in template namespace is watched by many template maintainers and Lugnuts' signature creates more work for them. Lugnuts has even editwarred with template maintainers who replace his signature. For a recent example, see this page history and this discussion. This is exactly the kind of long term disruptive and uncollaborative behaviour by Lugnuts in multiple areas of the project that has been repeatedly brought up. The difference is that when this happens in mainspace or in AFD, people escalate it to admin noticeboards, whereas gnomes and template maintainers quietly move on. I urge Arbcom to accept a case focused on Lugnuts since there are issues with their editing in multiple areas, not just at AFDs. --ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 16:39, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I should add that all the times that Lugnuts reverted users who replaced their signature, they were violating their editing restriction of Regardless of the editing method (i.e. manual, semi-automatic, or automatic; from any account), Lugnuts is indefinitely prohibited from making cosmetic changes to wikicode that have no effect on the rendered page. Users who were replacing Lugnuts' signature likely weren't aware that they was under this restriction, hence didn't escalate. Arbcom should not restrict the scope to AFD and give an opportunity to present evidence of Lugnuts' disruption and violations of existing restrictions elsewhere. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 07:30, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by RoySmith

I'm not swayed by Fram's statement: The issues ... don't seem to get resolved by ANI discussions, so it is time for ArbCom to take a look. The community has the power to solve this by imposing various sorts of bans, which any admin can enforce by means of a block. I see a couple of ban proposals being discussed now. Both look likely to fail. I get the frustration with ongoing problem users, but if the community has chosen to not sanction them, asking arbcom to do so seems like it's in WP:OTHERPARENT territory, with a side of WP:UNBLOCKABLE. I'd prefer to see arbcom restrict themselves to cases which the community is intrinsically incapable of handling; admin misconduct, confidential off-wiki evidence, and the like. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:26, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Folly Mox

On the signature issue alone, isn't it possible for a passing intadmin to like reach into Lugnuts's userspace and alter the signature to be lint-compliant or whatever, and mandate it remain so as an individual admin action? Totally uncertain if that's technically possible (not possible, per Izno below) and policy-compliant, but it doesn't seem like something eleven arbs need to weigh in on if it's genuinely causing work for people who for some reason care about deprecated tags in user signatures, like MalnadachBot's operator commenting above. People like me on mobile on dark mode already don't see font-faces and get inverted colours, but Some People Care.

On the merits of the case(s), what distinguishes our three protagonists Lugnuts JPL and TPH is the volume of their work. I believe what we're seeing are structural failings as the encyclopaedia's filtration mechanisms of AFD AFC and NPP begin to buckle under load, overburdened and understaffed, while the community has never held a convergent opinion on what the minimum requirements for a standalone article should be, and how to handle topics slightly beneath that minimum, while the real commercial value of having a standalone article continues to increase, and also at a point in time where a plurality of us do not know and have never known an encyclopaedia other than Wikipedia, and so have no reference for comparison. That's a knot of problems the committee is not mandated to fix. Folly Mox (talk) 19:21, 10 June 2022 (UTC) (edited 06:44, 11 June 2022 (UTC))[reply]

@Lugnuts:, @Star Mississippi:, here is that diff of the proposed two-way Iban. Folly Mox (talk) 22:11, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding DS for AfD, after some thought I have been unable to imagine anything feeling more kafkaesque to a new article creator than having their work brought before AfD, then receiving a DS template upon !voting to keep it. Folly Mox (talk) 01:17, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Hobit

I think it unlikely that the community will manage to solve any of these problems. And that's mostly because the actions of the three folks involved are largely not worthy of admin actions if they were coming in small quantities. But they aren't. In the quantities they are working in, they are quite disruptive. But people look at the individual things and say "this isn't horrible" or even "I agree with this" and can't grok that what's acceptable in small quantities gets disruptive when done in mass. On top of that, many of us look at these three and believe that most (all?) of them are quite capable of being solid net positives. They've all done good work at various times and they are generally responsive to limits placed on them. They just get obsessive and push things in an attempt to solve what they view as problems. Ideally some kind of restriction with a bright line on quality of work and fairly harsh penalty for crossing it would be employed. (BilledMammal proposed something like this at ANI but the line drawn wasn't as bright as I think would be needed given the personalities involved, especially wrt BEFORE). Other options include banning them all from deletion activities, placing tight restrictions on them in deletion discussions (and likely article creation), or just ignoring it all. But that last one is going to come back here with a high degree of certainty.

What I'm less sure of is if this should be 1, 2, or 3 cases. That's got to be up to those of you that are going to arbitrate it... All three options (and frankly even two different groups of 2) seem reasonable. I wish you luck on that one... Hobit (talk) 21:42, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Barkeep49: where do you want such diffs? The current case requests are about 2 specific editors. It feels odd to supply diffs about others here. Hobit (talk) 16:02, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • I will note that at the start of WP:ANI#TenPoundHammer:_prods_and_AfDs lays out a case about TPH that's pretty darn well documented. Do you want that copied here or somewhere else? A case opened? Hobit (talk) 16:07, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      (FYI because of the various issues your ping didn't go through though obviously I'm still seeing this) Yeah that's a really fair question. As you've probably seen I think these things should be merged and so I'm going to say here but fair point that we as arbs need to give some structure for you to do these things. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:10, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by BilledMammal

I believe Conduct at deletion discussions would narrow the scope too much - it would exclude most behaviour around prods and redirects. BilledMammal (talk) 07:26, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mhawk10: I think it would. BilledMammal (talk) 05:08, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dlthewave

ArbCom should open a case on deletion disputes broadly construed to include AfD, PROD, redirects etc. I agree with the basic framework proposed by Robert McClenon: 1) restate the relevant policies, 2) review individual user conduct and 3) enact dicretionary sanctions.

A core issue is that community members interpret our policies surrounding mass article creation, stubs, deletion and burden of proof/WP:BEFORE in conflicting ways, which makes it difficult to determine whether editors' activities are productive or disruptive. Setting clear standards and implementing a process for those don't follow those standards would significantly reduce the unproductive back-and-forth that we've been seeing when Lugnuts' (and others') clearly disruptive behavior is brought to ANI.

Although this wouldn't cover the full scope of Lugnuts' civility breaches, I think that a deletion/notability case is a necessary step toward addressing the overall conflict in this area. Best to stick with a single case for now and consider a Lugnuts-specific case if this doesn't address the problem. –dlthewave ☎ 17:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ingratis

In their hugely different ways both Lugnuts and Johnpacklambert are productive editors despite their less desirable behaviours, and neither of them is a net negative (although JPL often seems determined to make himself look like one). Both have disciplinary histories, but in normal circumstances the problems could still be dealt with by ordinary measures: there are various combination of bans that could still be tried, and so forth. However, the background here is the continuing war of attrition between deletion and inclusion in certain areas, at the moment especially sports, which is independent of these two but has brought their always jagged relationship into unusual focus. Other editors have already commented on the noticeable anti-Lugnuts / pro-JPL lobbying on this page, which is symptomatic. If this does go forward, a combined case would be better suited to take account of the common ground underlying it, and an important concern would have to be, in the present vicious climate, that one or both should not be held liable / penalised for stronger undercurrents for which they're not particularly responsible. However, (AFAIK) ArbCom can't resolve the deletion / inclusion polarisation, which is where the real problem lies, so perhaps this is even now best left to further community sanctions. Ingratis (talk) 00:25, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mhawk10

@BilledMammal: the WP:Deletion policy covers blanking and redirection. Would Conduct relating to article deletion work better for you? — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 16:37, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Levivich

(I'm just gonna make one comment here although this applies to both currently-open case requests.) I was going to put together a list of ANI threads about editors' behavior in deletion discussions, but I quickly realized that would take too long. So I did this fun exercise instead:

  • Go to WP:ANI and search on the page (CTRL+F or CMD+F) for "AFD". I get 458 hits. That's a bit of a fluke, and why we're here now: there are at least five separate AFD threads at ANI right now. But then:
  • Archive 1100: 28 hits for "AFD"
  • Archive 1099: 54 hits
  • Archive 1098: 69 hits
  • Archive 1097: 26 hits
  • Archive 1096: 88 hits (we're back to April 2022 at this point)

There does not appear to be any page of ANI archives that don't have at least one thread about AFD. That's a measure of how often AFD problems are discussed at ANI: it looks like more than ten threads just from the past couple of months! (I tried doing the same with "CSD", "UPE", "COI", and got far lower numbers, and some of those were false positives like "super" and "coincidence").

Authorizing discretionary sanctions for "deletion" would allow admins to issue sanctions like topic bans without needing to get consensus at ANI. This, in theory, is what DS is for: to save the community from having to review an AFD issue at ANI twice a week by empowering admins to make unilateral decisions. Authorizing DS for deletion could be done by motion, and might be a way of improving the situation short of a full case. But I'm not sure if we have any admins who would be interested in enforcing this new DS, so maybe merely authorizing DS would be ineffective, and a full case should be held. Levivich 21:18, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Harry Mitchell

I commend Hobit's statement above. As Hobit suggests, the problems here are not any one individual action or edit but a pattern of thousands or tens of thousands of edits across the encyclopaedia and internal processes like AfD. Both JPL and Lugnuts have strong track records of improvements to the encyclopaedia but, similar to some of the cases involving automation, also have a track record of doing things in very large volumes. While any one edit may not be problematic, or not sufficiently problematic as to be actionable, the volume of edits itself becomes disruptive (for example creating very large numbers of articles at short intervals, or nominating large numbers of articles for deletion without doing the prerequisite checking). It is well known that the community struggles to deal with patterns of low-level disruptive edits over a prolonged period, and with good-faith contributors whose contributions are largely positive but sometimes (possibly inadvertently) disruptive (there are echoes here of some of the cases involving automated editing, eg Betacommand and Rich Farmbrough). Thus, I believe the structure of a case is the only way to effectively examine the conduct of these two editors and preferably find a way that they continue to make positive contributions without derailing discussions or draining the community's resources. A broader examination of AfD, mass creation of articles, and related processes, possibly with a scope broader than these two individuals, is also overdue. I'm not sure I'd support something as broad as discretionary sanctions across AfD, but a workshop could allow for proposals to be made and refined in a more structured environment than ANI. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 09:10, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JayBeeEll

Issues concerning deletion discussions are difficult to resolve by consensus because of the highly partisan nature of the discussions, e.g. as described in Rhododendrite's comment here or as evident in this newer discussion. A case that addressed this issue effectively would have to consider many more editors than just the three mentioned here. -JBL (talk) 19:33, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Wugapodes: Thanks for the ping. My response is necessarily off-the-cuff -- I don't spend much time thinking about these things and certainly don't keep records, so it's just going by memory plus browsing the past few months of ANI. (I realize this may mean it's not very helpful for your purposes, so apologies for that; and apologies in advance to anyone who feels I have wrongly listed them here.)
    There are a zillion editors identified as members of ARS, but only a handful of them seem to routinely recur in fights at ANI, especially 7&6=thirteen and FeydHuxtable. (In the past I would have included Colonel Warden/Andrew Davidson and Lightburst, but previous sanctions appear to have dealt effectively with their disruption, eventually.) Other editors who have been the locus of major recent disputes include Nfitz and No Great Shaker. Maybe NemesisAT. DreamFocus seems to reliably pop up to defend bad behavior by other ARS members at ANI but I don't object to their behavior at AfD. There's a whole group of sports editors whose behavior at AfD is dreadful but I don't keep track of them because I don't edit sports very much. On the "other side", obviously JPL and TPH are both frequently to be found at ANI; I was going to mention Adamant1 but I see they were topic-banned a couple months ago. (The "deletionist side" is less organized, which makes identifying its "members" more complicated -- but also they are less likely to defend obviously poor behavior, as evidenced by the !votes in the Adamant1 ban discussion.)
    I think that some comments above about volume are correct: e.g., my own behavior at AfD is not exemplary, but because I don't participate in very many deletion discussions, I'm not harming the broader environment, and I don't end up at ANI about it repeatedly. --JBL (talk) 18:07, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ritchie333

I share Barkeep's view here. Although not directly related to this request, when I see an admin close a thread as "This is all a horrible time sink and it's clear that the community can't determine an outcome. I suggest that the next time someone feels the urge to take an ARS-related matter here, they (a) hold their peace or (b) let their gaze fall upon Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests", then it suggests that some sort of arbitration is required. I'm just not sure what, or to whom. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:53, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Moneytrees

Maybe I'm missing something, but I have some questions for those accepting/considering accepting: is this going to become a broad case on behavior at AfD (eg not just Lugnuts and JPL), or does more evidence need to be presented to make it a broader case? Or is this just a case overlooking the histories of Lugnuts and JPL and is not confined to their activities at AfD? Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 18:25, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Atsme

Please...no DS. If we're talking about auto stub creation, redirects being removed, and inadequate sourcing, then we're getting into the work of NPP, autopatrolled rights, and AfC. JoelleJay made some good points, as did Roy Smith. I'm of the mind that some temporary restrictions will resolve these issues, as will some unambiguous updates to our current PAGs and the timely enforcement of them. Atsme 💬 📧 22:13, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {Non-party}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Lugnuts: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
  • @Robert McClenon: the word counts for preliminary statements (what we're doing here) are counted separately than word counts for evidence. If the case is accepted you can definitely ask for a word count extension at that point from whomever is designated as the drafting arbs. Barkeep49 (talk) 01:55, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lugnuts: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <3/0/0>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

  • I'm not generally that keen on cases about individuals, excepting advanced rights holders as there's no other place to handle. That said, there are long term issues, and so I can see that a case may be needed. If consensus is that we need two cases, so be it, but I'd prefer this was merged into one request. Otherwise, awaiting statements. WormTT(talk) 09:28, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm tilting to Accept a single case, around behaviour at article deletion. The three individuals who have been most discussed should be parties. WormTT(talk) 07:50, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have only read part of 1 section of the ANI discussion (Thinking outside the box: raise the stakes for JPL's redirects and Lugnuts' reverts) and so I have a lot of reading to do. I want to be transparent about what my thinking is going into that reading. I think I got my vote wrong in the November 2021 Conduct in Articles for Deletion case request. I voted with the majority to decline, but future events suggested a case would have been helpful. I see the issues in that request to be related but distinct to these case requests. I don't want to repeat that mistake and I also don't want to overcorrect in the other direction (accepting unnecessarily) but that request will impact my thinking here. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Lugnuts: please email (arbcom-en@wikimedia.org) the committee any relevant private evidence. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:52, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm open to considering single or multiple cases. @Lugnuts: I think your statement would be helpful here. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 06:05, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In regards to both, I'm still grappling with whether the community is unable to handle this. Given the history of blocks and restrictions, it seems like oversight is adequate though probably not perfect; why are blocks and editing restrictions as regular admin and community actions not feasible? Reading through the various ANI threads, I do agree that a structured and systematic look at the area could help reduce problems and encourage more uninvolved editors to participate in the area. So I'm of two minds at the moment. I'd appreciate more comments on why this has gone beyond the community's ability to resolve. — Wug·a·po·des​ 15:16, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I appreciate the thoughts so far. I'm leaning towards accepting. JayBeeEll, not to put you on the spot, but since you mentioned needing more than three parties, did you have any in mind? Looking through some of the discussions you (and others) linked it seems like we'd need to be careful of having the scope balloon. — Wug·a·po·des​ 05:38, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Accept along the same lines as WTT. I've been looking through the discussions linked here and the case declined in November 2021, and it's clear that this is a recurring problem that would benefit from a systematic review. I'm still not sure about what solutions might be useful, but even just collecting and synthesizing concerns around these two or three editors would help reduce how much needs to be considered in future community decision-making processes. — Wug·a·po·des​ 21:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Folly Mox, no, that is not possible today. phab:T306574 exists apparently since a few months ago, and something like my suggestion in phab:T230653#5549304 would be interesting for this. (There are several other tasks near to T230653 that all discuss the issue of lint errors in signatures and being able to enforce that users have de-linted signatures, and the system does now enforce it for some kinds of lint. Not all, including outdated HTML, so it would require community consensus here to enable it for outdated HTML. I am still reading so I do not know if outdated HTML is relevant in this case.) --Izno (talk) 22:05, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I finished my read of the background information last night and I think there is something actionable for ArbCom here. But what that something is, is less clear to me. I think when there are multiple AN/ANI threads that sprawl about the same topic over a relatively concentrated period of time that indicates that the community's process isn't working and the more structured and more final method of ArbCom is appropriate to reach an acceptable outcome. Fram has presented clear evidence of that for Lugnuts and Johnpacklambert and even the "the case request has been filed" has not been enough for the community to find consensus (as it sometimes does). Others have asserted in their statements that it may be appropriate to include others. However, these assertions have not been backed up by any diffs which makes it hard for me to action them - in fact as far as I can tell the only person besides Fram to offer diffs has been ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ around Lugnuts and sigs. So I will be voting to accept, but am holding off for the moment to give those who think there's a case beyond these two people to come with diffs to show it so I can vote to accept with what I think the scope to be. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept I went back and re-read my vote from the last AfD case request, seven months ago. At the time I expressed hope that the close of the ANI thread would solve the problem, and that the case request would put the AfD regulars on notice that standards needed to improve. As I said: Perhaps AfD contributors might remember to control themselves and act in the spirit of Wikipedia, for they may find our solution to be bitter medicine. Well it seems that AfD has not controlled itself, and it is time for Doctor ArbCom to write a prescription. I would like a single combined case that includes not only the editors from the current requests, but also the editors in question from last year's request. But I want the focus to be not on editors, but on AfD itself, and how its processes do or do not work. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 17:42, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Moneytrees: the primary focus will likely be that of JPL and Lugnuts (and potentially TPH), but by not specifically making it about those two it leaves the door open for broader behavioural issues to be recognised and potentially remedied, such as the "AFD DS regime" floated by Levivich. Primefac (talk) 18:47, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrator motions

The Lugnuts and Johnpacklambert case requests will be merged into a single case request called "Conduct in deletion discussions". If a case is accepted, standard opening procedures will be used to determine parties, scope, and name. This will be considered an emergency motion, to go into effect when a majority of active non-recused arbitrators support.

For this motion there are 14 active arbitrators. With 2 arbitrators abstaining, 7 support or oppose votes are a majority.

Support
  1. Right now these parallel case requests stemming from a single ANI thread are creating a mess of a page, with nearly all comments supplied by users applying to both case requests (or both with small nuances). We also have editors suggesting a broader case, involving more editors, or potentially a third individual case including Ten Pound Hammer. I am continuing to read the extensive background information supplied so far - as I expect other arbs are - and have no idea if I think any case is appropriate and if one is who should be a party, what the scope should or name should be but our standard procedures give us flexibility in that regard. In the meantime I think we're doing a disservice to editors who wish to comment and a disservice to arbs in trying to sort out what needs sorting. An arb has objected to doing this as a standard clerking action, as is their right, so I am going the formal motion route because I think it will ultimately be to our benefit to have done so. Arbs are, as they traditionally do, going to also note what they see as they vote to accept (if they vote to accept) so we don't lose that transparency. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:11, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I'm still undecided on whether to accept, but based on the comments and my reading of the ANI threads, a single case on "Conduct at deletion discussions" seems like the best path forward. That scope seems consistent with the pattern of ANIs and keeps us from duplicating work. — Wug·a·po·des​ 00:43, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. See below. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 17:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. A single case seems a more efficient use of everybody's time & effort. Cabayi (talk) 20:16, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  5. I mentioned that I'd prefer a single case above. Nothing I've seen convinces me that we need multiple parallel ones. I am also quite happy with "Conduct in deletion discussions" WormTT(talk) 08:10, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  6. While the initial case request reads as "Lugnuts and Johnpacklambert are bad, and should be sanctioned", I am seeing a lot of concern about specific areas where they (and TenPoundHammer) frequently edit that are not necessarily solely predicated on those three editor's actions specifically. Opening a single case will allow us to look at not only the editor activity, but also the topic area(s) as a whole. Primefac (talk) 17:52, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Single case for sure, new name is good for me. Opabinia regalis (talk) 05:49, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Abstain
  1. I'm not convinced that this is necessary or beneficial at the case request stage, but also don't see major problems. If we open the case(s), I imagine we would do so by motion specifying what case(s) are opened and their respective scope(s). Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 06:05, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Noting that Maxim has (via clerks) said he should be considered inactive for this case as he will not be around to see it to conclusion if it is accepted. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:29, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Arbitrator Comments
I suspect that merging the way to go given the shared origins and overlapping comments, but "2022 user conduct"? That's as vague as it gets. Opabinia regalis (talk) 06:50, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The arb who objected brought up concerns about anchoring by consolidating so yes I intentionally choose the vaguest name I could knowing that if we open an actual case, involving multiple editors we'd like choose something different (though if we do open a case about a specific editor, I would prefer this more generic naming, as I do with ADMIN cases). But for me the priority is to consolidate for now and I don't really care what we call it. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:49, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gosh, I have to agree that "2022 User Conduct" is a really unhelpful name. I think we should just go with "Conduct in deletion discussions" or some variation thereupon, as numerous folks have suggested. If we're gonna pass a motion, lets make it a useful name and not some temporary intermediate name. But I do think these requests should be combined and soon, no need to double the work or split people's attention for the same root issue. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 06:12, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I really don't care what we call it at this point. I intentionally choose a generic name in the hopes that it would be the least controversial, given the concern that an arb has about anchoring. If that's not the best, fine. What I do want is to get this organizational trainwreck sorted and we can have a longer, more thoughtful, discussion about the name of the actual case if/when we decide to open one. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:13, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I've just gone ahead and edited the case name from "2022 User Conduct" to "Conduct in deletion discussions". CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 17:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I quite like the suggestion above of "Conduct at article deletion", which covers redirects and prods, but I'm quite happy with this one too. WormTT(talk) 07:51, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Johnpacklambert

Initiated by Fram (talk) at 09:03, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Fram

While the current ANI discussion linked above is about 2 editors, I decided to separate them into 2 ArbCom requests because the issues with both go back for many years, and very often aren't about both together but about their separate editing issues. Specifically for Johnpacklambert, he has a block log stretching back a decade, with infef blocks in 2015 and 2021 (and 2 other blocks in 2021)[7]. He has two Wikipedia:Editing restrictions, one from 2017, one from 2021. Despite all this, issues continue with a way too high frequence, as can be seen in the above linked discussions.

The issues with their editing (around deletion and in general) have been going on for many years, and don't seem to get resolved by ANI discussions, so it is time for ArbCom to take a look and see what (if anything) needs to be done. Fram (talk) 09:03, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Johnpacklambert

This statement fails to really specify any specific current behavior that they want to change. It also brings up issues literally from a decade ago. I have been trying to abide by both of those limits, even though one of them was even admitted when it began that it was extremely broad. As a result of the most recent ANI I have made a decision to alter my process of bringing Proposed deletion and have been trying to be more sure that a Proposed Deletion is brought when reasonable. I have also backed off from calling forcefully for deletion still after a redirect is proposed. I have explained what is actually going on with the Olympic articles and that it is not specifically focused on a specific editor, and most other editors have recognized this is what is happening. That I have made mistakes in the past I freely acknowledge. I do not think this rises to the level of behavior that the Arbcom needs to review, and I do not think it makes sense to even bring up in 2022 something that happened in 2015. This unfairly focuses on a few problems and ignores the huge amount of good I have done in developing Wikipedia. It also ignores that starting last September I have tried very, very, very hard to be more congenial, to speak with others in a more balanced way, to seek for consensus, and to build Wikipedia by collaboration. Multiple other editors have thanked me for my contributions, have said that my way of interacting with others has greatly improved, and many other realted statements. I do not think this is a fair summary of my contributions, and I do not think such a high level request for review is merited.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:19, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Black Kite

Please don't merge the two cases, it'll just degenerate into another he said/he said mud-slinging fest (not to mention an inclusionist / deletionist one). Black Kite (talk) 11:23, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by FOARP

To add to what I said about re: Lugnuts, it is clear from a review of JPL's history - particularly reviewing the ANI cases they have been involved in and blocks brought against them - that their issues are not in any meaningful way related to interactions with Lugnuts per se. As such Lugnuts and JPL should be addressed in separate cases if ARBCOM wishes to take these cases up. FOARP (talk) 12:35, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Robert McClenon (Johnpacklambert)

ArbCom should open a single case on Conduct in Deletion Disputes.

There are currently three disputes open at WP:ANI with four principal parties involving conduct in deletion disputes. These cases are continuing to grow, and do not appear to be approaching any readiness for closure. Reasonable closure of these disputes will involve a detailed examination of the conduct of the parties, but that process is better suited for the quasi-judicial process of ArbCom than for community drama. I urge ArbCom to open a consolidated case involving conduct in deletion disputes. The current disputes involve User:Lugnuts, User:Johnpacklambert, User:TenPoundHammer, and User:Alansohn. All of those editors have previously been the subject of controversy, and I ask ArbCom to consider them all as cases that have not been resolved satisfactorily by the community, because the community is not well equipped to deal with long-term complex behavioral disputes and should not be expected to deal with them.

ArbCom should have three objectives in accepting this case:

  • 1. ArbCom should restate, and if necessary clarify, the long-standing policies and guidelines that apply to deletion discussions, including verifiability and notability, and that civility is the fourth pillar of Wikipedia.
  • 2. ArbCom should review the conduct of the parties and determine whether they have violated these policies and guidelines, and impose appropriate restrictions.
  • 3. Because disputes about conduct in deletion discussions have been and continuing to be too common, ArbCom should develop an appropriate set of guidelines for ArbCom discretionary sanctions for editors whose conduct in deletion discussions (whether in starting too many of them or in disrupting them) has been disruptive.

I may add to this statement within 24 hours. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:21, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by BilledMammal

First, I agree with FOARP; the intersection between any case on Lugnuts, and any case of John Pack Lambert, is going to be minimal. In addition, I am not certain that there should be a case on John Pack Lambert; ArbCom is here to act as a final binding decision-maker primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve.

In the case of John Pack Lambert, there have been no issues that the community has been unable to resolve; in the discussions linked by Fram it was able to address and resolve the issues raised. This most recent discussion didn't go as well, but that is due to the nature of it; it started as a discussion on Lugnuts, but John was unfortunate enough to be drawn into the discussion without a clear definition of what the issue with John is, or how that issue relates to Lugnuts.

I see no reason to believe that a discussion at ANI considering only John, and with a clear scope, would fail to produce a consensus in one direction or the other. BilledMammal (talk) 13:25, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JoelleJay

See my statement in the Lugnuts request. I additionally would like to note that, while JPL continues to have issues nominating AfDs with insufficient BEFORE, and needs to do a much better job ensuring his PRODS are "uncontroversial", he does attempt to abide by his restrictions and improve his editing when called out. I think this is especially evident in his !votes at AfDs, which are in general much more fleshed-out and article-specific than they were just a couple years ago.

I would like to know if others here would be satisfied without taking on a case if @Johnpacklambert: agreed to 1) spell out his BEFORE searches and their results, and why the coverage isn't acceptable, for both AfDs and PRODs; 2) give redirecting MUCH more consideration; 3) limit how many replies/comments he posts in a discussion so he doesn't bludgeon it with the same arguments over and over. JoelleJay (talk) 17:40, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Star Mississippi

While I agree with @Robert McClenon: that this is probably a deletion conduct case rather than a John Pack Lambert, Lugnuts, Ten Pound Hammer case, I quote from @Floquenbeam:'s close here: However, this is becoming too chaotic to continue having a productive discussion; emotions are high. If arbs are less inclined to take on one or the other named cases, I think JPL's is the most ripe because this is an intractable problem with varied groups. Not just Lugnuts or any other person with whom they disagree on a topic. Disclosure, I proposed the aforementioned topic ban. Star Mississippi 13:47, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just confirming here what @Lugnuts said in their case above in the event it's needed. I did suggest the two way ban Lugnuts referenced. I cannot find the diff given the large discussions that ate AN:I but it's live in the first section. Happy to provide additional info as needed Star Mississippi 20:18, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Atsme

My statement in Lugnuts case applies equally here. No DS, fix the ambiguity in the PAGs, and enforce them...supporting the work of NPP and AfC, and temporarily removing autopatrolled rights will also help. The onus for creating articles without RS is on the article creator. Allow reviewers to do their job, and either kick it to draft, PROD it or CSD it - that will wipe out the problem faster than you think. Atsme 💬 📧 22:20, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {Non-party}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Johnpacklambert: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Johnpacklambert: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/0/0>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

  • Per my thoughts on Lugnuts request, would prefer merging these two and awaiting statements WormTT(talk) 09:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I will note these thoughts which I made in the case request above and which also apply here. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Please note the motion I have made above which would impact this case request. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:13, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think this case request is reasonable to make, and I think there is sufficient background here that a case could be taken looking into JPL's behavior, but based on a review of the threads linked, I am not sure that the community has been unable to manage the issues that have popped up with respect to JPL, with only this latest discussion still unresolved. One use a case could have would be to add structure to an examination of the behavior that has generally been lacking in the community's discussions about this editor, but then ArbCom in a decision potentially ends up in the position of pre-empting a community that doesn't look finished with handling this editor's behavior. I am inclined both to accept and decline this request as a result, so count me as presently neutral. --Izno (talk) 23:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have left this comment about my thoughts on this case above. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:07, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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