Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard

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Arbitration motion regarding the extended confirmed restriction

Original announcement

When the committee says Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required does that mean speedy deletion by a single admin? Or is the discretion of an administrator when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations limited to keeping or nominating for deletion or moving to Draft space? nableezy - 18:56, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

This motion didn't change that provision. However, as for the original provision, it's speedy deletion under WP:G5. The remedy is an equivalent to a topic ban for all non-EC editors from the topic. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 18:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Does anything at WP:PIA need updating? –Novem Linguae (talk) 17:44, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Good question; I think Special:Diff/1133756797 removed a need for updates there. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:00, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

I see {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli enforcement}} has been updated; {{Contentious topics/Arab-Israeli talk notice}} has not. (Do we really need both? And same question for {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice}}/{{Contentious topics/Arab-Israeli editnotice}}?) —Cryptic 22:45, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

The change in ECP restrictions at [1] has been discussed here:[2] I've had problems understanding it and having just run across this AE case see that I'm not the only one. User:Selfstudier, User:Zero0000, User:El C any comments or have I misunderstood you? Doug Weller talk 14:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

The only thing they can do is make edit requests. There is no longer any discussion option. FWIW the old version prohibited participation in RFCs also. Barkeep49 (talk) 14:51, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

No, Barkeep49, that is not responsive to the criticism about how the wording is unclear. El_C 15:06, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

You're right it's not responsive to the criticism because I didn't understand it as criticism I understood it as confusion which I attempted to clarify. Let me make some comments and see if any/all of these answer the criticism. I think reading only that sentence in isolation is at the heart of this confusion. The key sentence in this part is not this talk page one but The restriction applies to all edits and pages related to the topic area, broadly construed, with the following exceptions:. So that is an absolute prohibition. Everything that follows starts from non EC can edit nothing. Beyond that the confusion seems to be over the word only. That was added after voting had started based on an editor suggestion in order to clarify things. I didn't throw up a roadblock to that change but also didn't think it needed so if that's the word that's the problem I'm the wrong person to ask. I hope somewhere in here I answered the criticism that you wanted a response to. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:03, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

The confusion can be eliminated by taking out the word "only." Then it will read:

A. The restriction applies to all edits and pages related to the topic area, broadly construed, with the following exceptions:

1. Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.

Which is clear, whether you read (A) and (1) together, or just read (1) in isolation. Levivich (talk) 17:12, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) No, not really. I also don't think it would be productive to get bogged down in the semantics of criticism of confusion due to unclear wording. The issue is about potential edit requests via the talk pages of AfDs, DRVs, etc., onto those project pages themselves. I think it's best to make it expressly clear: that non-EC users are only allowed to file edit requests to pertinent articles (content templates?) in contradistinction to internal project pages and processes. Hope this clarifies mine and others' confusion/criticism/lack of clarity. El_C 17:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Since KevinL offered to consider tweaks at his talk, I suggested something there. Selfstudier (talk) 17:24, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I would write it like this:

A. The restriction applies to all edits and pages related to the topic area, broadly construed, with the following exceptions:

1. Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace to make article edit requests, provided they are not disruptive.

Levivich (talk) 17:26, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Like. El_C 17:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I would go with "provided they are constructive" rather than "not disruptive". Also I opened a discussion that relates to this over at Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Welcome message for new editors editing ARBPIA topics that I would appreciate feedback on. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:49, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

"Constructive" would be holding non-EC editors to a higher standard than EC editors. There's a lot of space between constructive and non-disruptive. WP:DISRUPT is a guideline but "constructive" is in the eye of the beholder. Levivich (talk) 17:57, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

To shorten it further, Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace to make non-disruptive article edit requests. Levivich (talk) 17:59, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think the real confusion at AE was over the word "only", for which the reasoning was given in the talk section right above this one. Rather, I think the confusion is over whether edit requests are permitted throughout the "Talk:" namespace, or whether they are permitted only on the talk pages of EC-protected mainspace articles. And I kinda think the answer to that is up to ArbCom.

The IP who opened the AE did indeed have confusion over "only", but if one looks at what the IP said, the contention was that "in the "Talk:" namespace, nothing other than an edit request may be made or edit requests may not be made anywhere else than in the "Talk:" namespace" are contradictions. As long as there is clarity over what is meant by the "Talk:" namespace, it's clear that the first interpretation is the correct (intended) one, while the second is actually a true statement that does not contradict anything (that I can see). Instead, it's just kind of irrelevant, and maybe wikilawyering that other talk page contributions are permitted, so long as edit requests aren't put in the wrong place.

I think that this can be cleared up by saying:

A. The restriction applies to all edits and pages related to the topic area, broadly construed, with the following exceptions:

1. Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the talk pages of articles within the topic area, but only to make non-disruptive edit requests.

--Tryptofish (talk) 00:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I have problems with the use of WP:EDITXY as the indicator of what "making an edit-request" means.
(a) The paragraph at WP:Edit requests that introduces EDITXY says to establish consensus before adding an edit-request template. This is now impossible, as discussion is forbidden, so actually non-EC editors cannot follow WP:Edit requests as it is written.
(b) EDITXY requires that editors not only see a problem but also know exactly how to fix it. However, new editors often don't know how to fix problems that they see, and if they are total newbies they might not know the first thing about editing policy and practice. So, for example, "Ref [12] does not contain the information sourced to it." or "The link in ref [12] is dead." are comments we should welcome from anyone but they don't match EDITXY and so now seem to be forbidden. (Editors who use the edit-request template to make such comments commonly get a templated response "Not done. Make your request in a 'change X to Y' format.")
(c) If someone making an edit-request is asked to justify it, are they forbidden from replying?
Much of this comment can be seen as a complaint against EDITXY, which has annoyed me for a long time. I propose first that the link to EDITXY be removed, and second that a revised wording to make the rule self-contained be constructed. As a 0-th attempt: "Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace to point out explicit problems in an article and suggest ways to fix them." Zero^talk 03:40, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

This is actually the main problem with the new wording, which I forgot about yesterday. But I remember thinking about it a week ago when I first seen the motion (seen it, mind you, briefly and in passing). Namely, what do you with WP:ER follow ups. What limits should be set for these, and how does it not become merely a normal discussion? Because indeed, sometimes solutions and resolutions only materialize after several iterations of dialogue within a single edit request. So how many edit requests does a non-EC user get per talk page, per subject matter inquiry, and how many follow ups? I realize a lot of it falls on admin discretion and a broad sense of reasonableness, but the absence of clear guidelines could make this model quite problematic. I get the wish to impose greater limits on non-EC participation, which I'm not inherently opposed to, but applying it in practice may prove to be a whole other animal (in a whole other galaxy). El_C 08:58, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Is there any template we can use to inform editors of the current restrictions on them participating in discussions? I don't mean a generic contentious topics one, rather I'm wondering if there's a template I could have used to inform these IP editors [3] why I deleted their posting. (As I understand it, it was reasonable for me to delete their comments since they weren't allowed to post them and no one had commented who could.) Nil Einne (talk) 07:17, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I threw together {{welcome-arbpia}}. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:25, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

SFR, I'd suggest changing the template background color to something like Template:Contentious topics/alert/first. The current lime green color makes it look like a warning instead of an introduction. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I thought green was a non-threatening color, and it won't disappear if the alert/first template is given at the same time. The hope is that the plain language explanation of the most important thing will stand out. I opened a discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Welcome message for new editors editing ARBPIA topics. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:14, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

I know its too late for a reconsideration, but thinking about it I think you all are creating an Emergency law in Egypt situation, where one event (Sadat's assassination) led to an indefinite "state of emergency" that banned what would have already been limited rights. Right now, this second, we have a sub-topic of an already contentious topic that has reached this fever pitch, and we have an influx of users, new or returning but it doesnt matter, drawn to WP because of a real world event. And I agree the level of disruption does indeed warrant emergency actions, but for the scope and duration of the emergency. Think you would all be much better off making this apply only to articles related to the 2023 Israel-Hamas war, and for a limited duration of time. Do we really need to ban any non-ec participation outside of edit-requests to the wider topic area indefinitely? That strikes me as an overreaction to a problem that is limited in scope, and, likely, also limited in time. And for that emergency just simplify it and say no non-EC participation period for these articles/talk pages for war+n months. nableezy - 00:37, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

KevinL has a suggested rewrite Selfstudier (talk) 11:33, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

LGTM. If this doesn't work, maybe try "a whistle." Levivich (talk) 17:43, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Call for Checkusers and Oversighters

Original announcement

Good idea! - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 22:37, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

+1 Clyde _{[trout needed]} 23:07, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Is this related to the lack of candidates in this year's election? Galobtter (talk) 02:17, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

 Highly likely - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 03:13, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Good change that benefits Wikipedia. I see no reason to limit qualified candidates from applying for the perms at any given time. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Seems like an OK starting point, would much rather just devolve CUOS from arbcom to the community (change from appointments to !elections) - there are drawbacks to that as well though (see 2019 VPI thread on the topic). — xaosflux ^Talk 14:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that link because I'm pleased to see that I had concerns about this idea even before I became an admin (let alone arb). Barkeep49 (talk) 15:28, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Yep, not trying to bury the lede that it would be far from a trivial change. Some other large community managed CU's include dewiki, ptwiki, and eswiki. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:43, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't know about ptwiki, but I do know that dewiki's and eswiki's culture around admin appointments is healthier than ours. Having seen how the last CUOS appointment that really put the emphasis on the community played out (2018) I don't consider the benefits of outweighing the drawbacks. And I'm genuinely thankful and relieved to know that I had these concerns before becoming a person making those decisions as it tells me that I've come to those concerns honestly rather than because I trust myself (and my colleagues). Barkeep49 (talk) 15:52, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Just for a bit of wiki-history: I was a candidate the last time we did CUOS by election, 2010 if I recall. I feel like there were around eleven applicants. Not one person got elected, at a time when we actually needed new functionaries, and we got literally zero feedback as to why none of the candidates were elcted. That's when the committee developed the process we have been using since then. And I do think it makes sense for the committee to oversee the functionaries, for the simple reason that they can see what the functs are doing, whereas the broader community, by design, cannot. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:06, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Beeblebrox, wasn't CUOS2018 a community process too? A few were elected there. ——Serial 15:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Those weren't elections; like every CUOS round in many years, community consultation was advisory. See WP:CUOS (The May 2010 elections were conducted using SecurePoll instead of public voting. Only one candidate was successful, which was deemed insufficient given the demand. Following a request for comment, the committee announced that until there was a strong consensus for an alternative approach, the committee would resume making the final selection after seeking input from the community concerning potential candidates.). The Committee's role in making "the final selection" has remained the same since its 2010 announcement. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 15:08, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Incredible! A total opposefest! I guess its testament to allowing admins to be judged by those they might have sanctioned previously. Pretty much an object lesson in what happen at reconfirmation RfAs, too. ——Serial 15:40, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm glad to see this dropping out of annual cycle, regardless of the current process it's in. -- Amanda (she/her) 03:24, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Appeal from Ethan2345678

Original announcement

How does an Arbcom appeal of a globally locked user work? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:43, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus great question. We consult with the Stewards about whether an unlock is possible if we wanted to grant an unblock. They either tell us it is (in which case we consider the appeal) or it isn't (in which case we don't). Barkeep49 (talk) 15:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Is ArbCom able to share the contents of Ethan's appeal, or at least a summary of it? If I were looking at this in CAT:UNBLOCK, I'd mostly care about their understanding of what went wrong before, and what they plan to edit going forward. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 16:07, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

• To clarify, are you requesting input from the community on an appeal that we don't have access to and which, due to the global lock, may not be possible to proceed with if granted? Also, as a question of process, was it the consensus of Arbs that this was the best way to move forward with this specific appeal?-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 16:34, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

  This has proven to be a difficult appeal for any number of reasons and so yes coming to the community for feedback was seen as a way of helping ArbCom reach a decision about what to do; speaking only for myself I'm inclined to accept the appeal but felt uneasy about doing it without community feedback given what happened with this user and because of the lock a straight "remove the CU element of this block" wasn't an option. It was absolutely a mistake to not get something substantive to post here and we're working behind the scenes to correct that now. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:39, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Barkeep49 where is the "CU element" of this block? While there appears to be socking for evasion, it seems to be simple socking and seems to have been admitted to (c.f. User_talk:Definitelyduke255). I don't see any of the blocks on either of these accounts listed as CU blocks, or ArbCom blocks. Is the committee escalating one or both of these blocks to checkuser or committee blocks - preventing this from following the standard unblock appeal process? — xaosflux ^Talk 13:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

  Want to acknowledge I've seen this and will be coming back to you with an answer after talking with my colleagues. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:34, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

  With my steward hat on, I can say that unblocking is certainly possible while locked - however the user still won't be able to log on and contribute. Ultimately the unlock decision will be handled by stewards, but yes arbcom does ask if it is possible so as not to waste time (generally locks are for reasons in excess of a local block). Being unblocked by a project that a locked user has a significant connection to is generally viewed as favorable during unlock decisions. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:17, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

• I think Tamzin and Ponyo's points are valid. How can the community to give feedback on a appeal we have little to no information about and no summary of? My first inclination is the Ethan had issues with understanding English, something I understand completely as English isn't my first language. It seemed there may have a general lack of knowledge in the area of vandalism patrolling which is also understandable even with the filters and tools patrollers have at the disposal. In their overexuberance to remove vandalism they made mistakes, repeated mistakes. This led to them being blocked. Were they globally locked as the result of the alleged Sockpuppeting? --ARoseWolf 17:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

  @ARoseWolf: I believe the global lock came about when they were blocked on three Wikipedias. The one on THAIWKI expired after the lock. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:41, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Deepfriedokra. I wasn't sure how all that worked. --ARoseWolf 12:46, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

• I'm curious how this ended up on ArbCom's plate. The global lock is an issue for the stewards, and the underlying blocks (both Ethan2345678's and Definitelyduke255's) seem to be non-CU actions that the community would typically be able to review on its own. Is there some non-public reason that this needs to go through the Committee? (If so, I'm happy to take your word for it, of course.) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

• FWIW, user has UTRS access. Back in May, 2022 I proposed some unblock conditions. User was emailing ArbCom. (If memory serves, it was his idea.) UTRS appeal #55809 is available to admins for context. Thanks, -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:23, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Patient Zero: was willing at that time to mentor. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:25, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

  Still happy to mentor if Ethan is unblocked - thank you for reminding me of the matter, Deepfriedokra. Could someone please email me what Ethan has said in his appeal, just so that I can gain an understanding of whether he has committed to change the editing patterns and disruption that led to his block, and so that I know, in theory, what we will need to work on? Thank you in advance, but no worries if this isn’t possible due to confidentiality. Patient Zero^talk 00:39, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Patient Zero, I think this is an excellent idea and I was going to suggest mentoring. I don't mind lending you a hand if it gives a committed editor another opportunity. I don't view it a waste of time for the community to work together to assist an editor that has potential and a willingness to do what right. Just need to see that they are committed to it. --ARoseWolf 12:55, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

• As the original blocking admin, I'll say that the block was not for any kind of nefarious behavior, but for an impressive lack of competence. I'd say ArbCom is probably capable of judging whether the user's competence and maturity have improved 2+ years later, just based on interacting with them. I can imagine that the competence may have been age-related, so 2+ years is a long time. If yes, it seems like unblocking would be fine, especially with a mentor and/or with conditions. If no, then please don't subject other editors to having to clean up their mess. But I will note that this doesn't seem like a high-stakes unblock; if it turns out to be a mistake, it's easy to reblock for 2 more years or something. It wasn't borderline harassment or a controversial block or bad faith or anything, just exuberance combined with cluelessness and immunity to feedback. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

  Assuming this is really a "normal" block (see above) - seems like a possible WP:ROPE candidate - if we had some sort of statement from the user. Do they acknowledge their disruption? How do they plan to act differently now? — xaosflux ^Talk 14:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Deepfriedokra and Barkeep49 - any update? Patient Zero^talk 01:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

AFAIK, ArbCom has not given us further info . . . . . -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

It's stuck waiting to hear back from Ethan. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:06, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

@Barkeep49 wait what? The question we're asking is if this is or isn't a checkuser block, how would anything the blocked party says impact the current state of the block? — xaosflux ^Talk 02:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

That's not what I was asking.😛 AFAIK, not a CU block. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 02:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth there DFO, this was more along what Extraordinary Writ was also asking - why is this situation being handled by our final dispute resolution body? Has the ability for the community to deal with this unblock appeal been exhausted? — xaosflux ^Talk 02:58, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Xaosflux, I left out important information. What limited discussion there has not brought evidence that this was a CU block. The question was asked to Ethan about posting his appeal on wiki either for feedback (if it turns out to be CU) or for community handling (if it wasn't). Barkeep49 (talk) 02:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

I will try to take some time tomorrow to dig up/explain the history behind this account appealing. Izno (talk) 07:05, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Opabinia regalis resignation

Original announcement

Thank you for your service. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 07:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your service! Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:00, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Noting, this has no impact on WP:ACE2023. Best wishes with your next efforts OR. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:41, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your service. #prodraxis ^connect 17:38, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your service. —pythoncoder (talk | contribs) 04:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Alalch E.'s topic ban rescinded

Original announcement

Suspension of Beeblebrox

Original announcement

• Given that his term ends in December anyway (unless I'm mistaken), why is he suspended for six months, as opposed to removed? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  Two reasons. The first, and immediately practical, is that this provides a timeline for which he can ask for restoration of his CUOS and/or mailing list access. The second is because we're setting a precedent here if any future committee finds itself needing to discuss removal or suspension (and I hope none do) they can weigh it against the evidence here in deciding an appropriate action. Barkeep49 (talk) 05:12, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

• Thanks for being willing to take these steps when necessary. DMacks (talk) 05:16, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
• Has an arbitrator ever been successfully removed before? (I know it's been tried before.) Galobtter (talk) 05:39, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, Iridescent was removed due to inactivity in 2011. I'm not aware of any previous times in which an arb was removed for cause, though. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 05:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

• If he's no longer an arbitrator, then he isn't suspended. He's been removed from the position. GoodDay (talk) 06:04, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  There is a significant distinction between suspension and removal, both of which are allowed for in WP:ARBCOND: suspension removes from the arbitrator their roles and responsibilities temporarily, removal removes them permanently. Izno (talk) 06:36, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  Ok, Beeblebrox is still an arbitrator (just doesn't have the duties), thanks for the clarification. GoodDay (talk) 06:41, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

• I'm sorry guys, I don't think you made the right decision here. I can piece together recent events, and well aware of the long history, and I think it looks like you have been taken advantage of by a troll and Beeblebrox has come out the victim. Look back at the history - how many times has it been all related to this one individual. Pushing buttons, changing their mind, manipulating the facts. I know where I got caught out, and I know I'm glad I'm not on the committee at the moment. Worm^TT(talk) 06:56, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  If this is about what I think it is I have to agree with Worm here. — SamX [talk · contribs] 07:01, 27 November 2023 (UTC) Upon further reflection, I don't know enough about this to have an informed opinion. I wish I hadn't even commented here in the first place. — SamX [talk · contribs] 07:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  Even if Beeblebrox disclosures had been problematic, I don't see the need for such a public rebuke when this could have been handled with tact in private. BB only has a month on their term and said they are not going to run again. Hemiauchenia (talk) 07:19, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  The private tact had been tried in 2021 with the private warning and we only knew Beeblebrox was not planning to run this year. Given the multituple disclosures this year, one of which for me was the most severe disclosure breach of the multiple documented disclosures, it was my opinion that doing nothing or repeating the private warning was not a reasonable response to the conduct. Barkeep49 (talk) 08:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Worm That Turned there were two disclosures this year which had not been discussed while you were on the committee. One of them was something which I personally don't think would have raised as many, or even any, eyebrows if it had occurred on wiki and is about the person I believe you're referencing. Not every arb agrees with us on that and perhaps one will say more about why they think differently. The other disclosure this year was for me the most severe in nature and willful in its execution of any of the disclosures. So even if one were to give zero weight to any disclosures about the person I believe you're referring to there were still multiple other instances of complaints about disclosures going back to 2019 and a pattern of concerns expressed to the committee for which no other arb comes close to matching during my 3 years on the committee. I think it significant that 10 out of 11 Arbs voted for this with the remaining arb abstaining (compared to being opposed). Barkeep49 (talk) 08:24, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Barkeep49 I respect you guys a lot, and with the full information, I may have made the same decision. I don't envy you all there at all - and the decision has been made, unanimously, and that speaks volumes. Worm^TT(talk) 08:55, 27 November 2023 (UTC)