Wikipedia talk:Notability

Kent Hughes

Torrey C. Mitchell was represented by Kent Hughes for 11 years as a NHL player when he was a player agent. On Kent Hughes wikipedia site Torrey was omitted on the list of players Mr. Hughes represented .

In addition , on the University of Vermont Hockey alumni notables wikipedia site Torrey C. Mitchell was omitted as a Team Captain, Team Rookie of the year and MVP , Hall of Fame Inductee. Torrey definitely was a UVM Hockey Notable. He contributed over 100 points in slightly over 100 games. The Catamounts had three winning seasons with Torrey in the lineup. 174.94.83.103 (talk) 17:32, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Source? Slatersteven (talk) 17:33, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Puckpedia doesn't list an agent for Mitchell. Certainly he was a significant player for Vermont, and he had a long enough NHL career that he'd meet the customary standards for inclusion in such an alumni listing. Ravenswing 22:52, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Deleting

Your article makes no statement on proposing deletion for a pageFourLights (talk) 22:00, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Notability#Articles not satisfying the notability guidelines. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:32, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Question about schools

Hello. Was wondering what generally is considered sigcov / enough for notability when it comes to schools, in particular business colleges? I don't think I've ever written any articles about institutions or organizations before, but came across two pages that I pondered whether they deserve articles. The two schools in particular are the two entries at Template:Colleges and universities in Delaware missing articles: Hines Private Business College and Thompson's Business College (both former institutions from my home state). Thompson's has some coverage in the state papers, such as [1], [2], [3] [4] [5] [6] [7], as well as many quick mentions; also has a page discussing it in the offline 1958 Delaware Blue Book (which I have). Hines has an article on it here as well as a number of brief mentions, including short pieces such as this on its baseball team. Do the notability folks think that either of these colleges are notable? Thanks, BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:19, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

See WP:NSCHOOLS. Public schools need to meet the GNG, private ones, NCORP. — Masem (t) 23:25, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

"Private" isn't quite a synonym for "for profit" althought the distinction is moot for this particular case. North8000 (talk) 01:36, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Quite. Many schools (such as, I think, all of the Ivy League universities in the US) are private but non-profit. Phil Bridger (talk) 07:11, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

In the U.S., the overwhelming majority of private colleges and universities are non-profit. That's why we don't even include "non-profit" in the infobox or lede sentence for those institutions - we only include "for-profit" for the handful of institutions that differ. ElKevbo (talk) 12:25, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@Masem: Your thoughts on the mentioned two schools as to whether they meet the criteria? BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Neither school looks to have the GNG requirement of sources covering the schools in depth, the longest articles are only a few paragraphs long and seem to half cover the person that founded the school. Masem (t) 00:07, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@Masem: Located three other links for Thompson as you wrote your comment up (5-7); just to confirm, could you also take a quick look at those and see if you think it makes any difference? Thanks, BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:12, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Again, I don't think any of them provide what we are looking for in terms of significant coverage. The articles only hit a few facts but do not really delve into the school outside of a bit of history (in the case of the last article). And best I can tell, the Thompson there is a non-notable figure for us, and so as a private school, also readily fails NCORP. — Masem (t) 00:44, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

While this has no place in any presumed binary flow chart, IMO in the fuzzy wp:notability system, if they have a significant NGeo type presence, that can weigh in a bit towards inclusion. But I think that my point is moot for the particular example at hand. North8000 (talk) 01:33, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

I should point out that anything that meets WP:GNG can have an article. WP:NCORP is an SNG and does not supersede GNG. An SNG can suggest a broadening of notability requirements but it cannot narrow them. Making a distinction between public and private institutions is therefore completely unnecessary. NCORP is merely meant to emphasise that sources for commercial organisations have to be looked at carefully due to advertising; it is not the deletionist's charter that some editors seem to think it is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:27, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

WP:NCORP is an SNG and does not supersede GNG. An SNG can suggest a broadening of notability requirements but it cannot narrow them. That is not the consensus about what NCORP requires, and WP:ORGCRIT makes very clear that the reason NCORP creates a higher standard is because it's very easy to churnalism your way to "notability". voorts (talk/contributions) 15:29, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

I think that this may be moot for the specific one at hand, but there's pretty wide acceptance and practice that for businesses, the additional NCorp source type criteria is used when applying GNG. North8000 (talk) 15:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC) Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Re: I should point out that anything that meets WP:GNG can have an article - I don't think this reflects overall community consensus. Many topics, such as living people, corporations, numbers, and unreleased films, are subject to WP:SNGs that are more restrictive than GNG, and arguments for retaining a separate article, based on a GNG pass that does not meet those more restrictive standards, are not generally accepted in those domains.

Also, although a number of editors seem confused on this point, GNG itself is like any SNG in that it offers at best a presumption that a topic could have an article - other considerations (including WP:NOT and WP:PAGEDECIDE) always apply. I'm not assuming that Necrothesp disagrees with this, but "can" seems more assertive than "could", and the presumption is always conditional. Newimpartial (talk) 16:18, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Technically meeting notability

Hi, 331dot, and thanks for helping at WP:Tea house. I wanted to explore a point in a Tea house response you made about Notability in this edit, where you said:

A person can technically meet the notability criteria and still not merit an article because the sources are not there.

In my understanding of Notability, that is a self-contradiction, or else I don't understand what you are saying. If someone meets notability criteria then it means the sources are there, full stop. No sources, no Notability. Afaik, the main reason not to merit an article if the N threshold passes is WP:NOPAGE, but that still requires sources. What am I missing here? Can you elaborate on your comment? (P.S. raising this here, and not at the Tea house in order not to confuse the questioner with technical discussions about fine points of policy.) Mathglot (talk) 17:11, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

If a person clearly meets a SNG, but there are no sources to develop an article, then they aren't really eligible for a stand-alone page. We've really changed on this in the past few years to deprecate a lot of the SNGs especially in say sports so this is less relevant than it used to be. SportingFlyer T·C 17:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks; I get WP:NOPAGE (when something *does* have sources meeting N but still does not merit a page), that's not the problem. I'm disputing the highlighted text, not NOPAGE. They might meet a SNG but SIGCOV still applies, so N fails. Mathglot (talk) 17:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure how I feel about the quoted text, but there are certainly living people who meet WP:NPROF without sources that satisfy GNG or WP:NBASIC, and we often have articles about such people on enwiki.

So I guess the issue I have with the quoted text is the ambiguity of the phrase, the sources are not there. All articles must have a claim to significance that meets WP:V, at least, but any stronger statement than that really depends on which notability criterion is being invoked in a specific case. Newimpartial (talk) 17:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)