Talk:Anonymus (notary of Béla III)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hungary Low‑importance

	Hungary portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hungary on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

National myths

Yes, Anonymus give rise to several national mythologies. For example, he was the first author to associate the Székelys with the Huns, implying that the Székely had been continuosly present in the Carpathian Basin from the 4th-5th centuries. Similarly, his reference to the Vlachs at the time of the Magyar conquest implies that the Vlachs were present in the Carpathian Basin around 895. Furthermore, Romanian historians claim that Anonymus' reference to late-9th-century Vlachs also proves that the Romanians had been continuisly present in the Carpathian Basin from the 3th century. They even transformed Anonymus Bulgarian Menumorut and Glad into Romanian princes. Consequently, we could clearly dedicate a section to Anonymus' role in the development of national mythologies based on reliable sources. However, we cannot edit an article based on our thoughts. @Skyhighway:, please carefully read WP:3RR, because edit warring may have serious consequences. Borsoka (talk) 04:30, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is this your argument? Do you have others because your arguments are very week. Skyhighway (talk) 15:53, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. Borsoka (talk) 16:44, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly WP:NOR and WP:NPOV contradicts your edits. Very good that you bring them here in discussion. Skyhighway (talk) 05:17, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

See the source: http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/historiens/anonyme/bela.htm Skyhighway (talk) 09:20, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

De terra ultra siluana Et dum ibi diutius morarentur, tunc tuhutum pater horca sicut erat uir astutus dum cepisset audire ab incolis, bonitatem terre ultra siluane, ubi gelou quidam blacus dominium tenebat. Cepit ad hoc hanelare quod si posse esset, per gratiam ducis arpad domini sui terram ultra siluanam sibi et suis posteris acquireret. Quod et sic factum fuit postea. Nam terram ultra siluanam posteritas tuhutum usque ad tempus sancti regis stephani habuerunt: et diucius habuissent, si minor gyla cum duobus filiis suis biuia et bucna christiani esse, uoluissent et semper contrarie sancto regni non fecissent, ut in sequentibus dicetur.

XXIV. De la terre Transylvaine. Tandis qu'ils demeuraient dans ce lieu, Tuhutum père de Horca, entendit souvent les habitants qui parlaient de la terre Transylvaine, & en louaient la bonté & disaient qu'elle était sous la puissance d'an certain Blaque appelé Gelon. Tuhutum qui était un homme rusé songea au moyen d'avoir cette terre pour lui et ses descendants, ce qu’il obtint aussi par la suite. Car la postérité de Tuhutum a possédé la terre Transylvaine, jusques au règne d'Etienne, & elle l’aurait gardé plus longtemps, si le jeune Gyla avec ses fils Bivia & Bucna eussent voulu se faire chrétiens & ne pas toujours contrarier le Roi, ainsi qu'on verra plus loin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyhighway (talk • contribs) 09:23, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 December 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Anonymus (notary of Béla III) - as three !voters here have labelled an acceptable title, and nobody supports the status quo, there is a consensus for this option. — Amakuru (talk) 17:56, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Anonymus (chronicler) → Anonymus Bele regis notarius – Incomplete disambiguation. This is not the only chronicler known only as Anonymus. Srnec (talk) 00:03, 13 December 2019 (UTC) —Relisting. — Amakuru (talk) 14:24, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, it is incomplete. What about Anonymus (chronicler) → Anonymus (King Béla's notary) or Anonymus (chronicler) → Anonymus (Gesta Hungarorum)? Borsoka (talk) 04:04, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Those are OK by me, although I'd prefer "notary of Béla III" over "King Béla's notary". We could opt for a purely descriptive title like Author of the Gesta Hungarorum or even merge this article into Gesta Hungarorum. I moved this article to Bele Regis Notarius in 2010, but it got moved back in a histmerge in 2016. Srnec (talk) 05:24, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Anonymus (chronicler) → Anonymus (notary of Béla III) is ok for me. Years ago I was also thinking of merging the two articles, but I concluded that the preservation of both articles is more practical: we can refer to them separately and readers interested in the author do not have to read lengthy sentences about the Gesta, while those who want to read about the Gesta are not forced to read several scholarly theoris about its author's identification. Borsoka (talk) 05:51, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Anonymus (notary of Béla III), as this seems like a workable compromise. BD2412 T 19:43, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Master P. (chronicler) since it falls more in line with WP:NATURALDAB than any other options presented so far (pending any evidence that one name is more notable than the other ["Anonymous" vs. "Master P."].) Steel1943 (talk) 17:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I like the idea, although I have experienced several times that "chronicler" is a strange word for many native English speakers. Borsoka (talk) 05:12, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - No objection from me. We could combine the options into Master P. (notary of Béla III). The most natural disambiguation, to me, is "Author of the Gesta Hungarorum" or "Anonymous author of the Gesta Hungarorum". Srnec (talk) 20:51, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Master P. (notary of Béla III) is not the best option: we want to refer to the chronicler. Borsoka (talk) 04:45, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.