Talk:Archdiocese of Arad

Archbishopric vs Archdiocese

Why has the page Archbishopric of Arad been merged with Archdiocese of Arad? As Romania is a Orthodox country, the archbishopric of Arad easily can be identified as the episcopal see of the ROC, and the ROC does not use the term of diocese as to designate its administrative structures. I would say that the designation of diocese applied to an Orthodox Church is somewhat non standard and should be avoided. In Romania the usage of the term diocese and archdiocese is traditional to the use of the Catholic Church. Ioan-Mihai Gale I (talk) 11:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 26 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain ^t/c 16:21, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

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Archdiocese of Arad → Archbishopric of Arad – Proper name for the recognized structure of the Romanian Orthodox Church Ioan-Mihai Gale I (talk) 17:42, 26 July 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 09:07, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. All other Romanian Orthodox diocese and archdiocese seem to not to use "bishopric" (see Template:BORDioceses). I'm willing to change my mind if it can be shown the proposed title is the most common name in reliable sources, but simply being the official name doesn't cut the mustard, sorry. Jenks24 (talk) 11:25, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. The rationale is vacuous in terms of WP:AT which all editors are urged in many places to read before raising or contributing to RMs. See also the essays at WP:correct and MWOT, and I'll probably add this example to that last essay. Andrewa (talk) 19:09, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 8 July 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Number 57 17:57, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

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Bishopric of Arad → Archdiocese of Arad – Recently, this page was moved to the current title with the rather bizarre rationale of "no such thing as Archdiocese of Arad". I'm not quite sure what the mover was thinking, because there very much is such a thing. If you take a look at its official site, you'll note that "arhi-" prefix. It means "arch", as in "archdiocese", a rank which it's held since 2009. As to the rest of the word, that tiresome debate over eeparchy/bishopric/diocese - well, "diocese" is standard English, which is why we use it for all similar divisions of the Romanian Orthodox Church. (Archdiocese of Bucharest, Archdiocese of Râmnic, Diocese of Caransebeș, Archdiocese of Vad, Feleac and Cluj, Romanian Orthodox Archdiocese of America and Canada.) There is zero reason for an exception in this case, so I request we move back as soon as possible and end this silly experiment.

@Jenks24:, @Andrewa:, as participants in the previous move request, you may wish to join this one as well. Biruitorul ^Talk 20:30, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

• Suppot: Recent move stunned me because it is clear that correct title of that page should remain "Archdiocese of Arad" or "Archbishopric of Arad". User "Biruitorul" is right, that is the official name. Explanation of user "Zoupan" that there is "no such thing as Archdiocese of Arad" might be quite surprising for those who are not familiar with actions of that user, but it actually did not surprise me, because few days ago he tried something similar with page Eparchy of Lipljan while I was still working on it on the first day I created it. I told him then that I think he has an agenda, and I am quite certain now that his actions against Eastern Orthodox pages reveal the nature of that agenda. Sorabino (talk) 22:43, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
• Comment: I went by Gbooks, which shows that: "Archdiocese of Arad" is used 0 times, "Archbishopric of Arad" 0, while "bishopric of Arad" is used 10 times. this directly related site uses "Arad Bishopric". Arhiepiscopia Aradului is not translated into "Archdiocese", but "Archbishopric". So, no, the page move should not be reverted. @Sorabino: are you calling me anti-Orthodox or something?--Zoupan 01:56, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose, but support move to "Archbishopric of Arad".--Zoupan 01:56, 10 July 2016 (UTC) --Zoupan 03:16, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
  • Set aside WP:UCN for a moment - we are dealing here with an entity that is not well-covered in English. At the same time, its nature is perfectly clear - it is the territory of an archbishop. Thus, I would argue we should name it in line with what similar entities are called on Wikipedia. At the very least, it is imperative it be named in line with similar subdivisions of the Romanian Orthodox Church. We're not going to have Archdiocese of Bucharest, Archdiocese of Vad, Feleac and Cluj, Archdiocese of Râmnic, Diocese of Giurgiu, Diocese of Caransebeș — oh, and, on a whim, "Archbishopric of Arad".

• • So yes, UCN, but not to the point of absurdity. If you want to move all these articles to "Archbishopric of…."/"Bishopric of….", by all means start a discussion somewhere and make that case. But to imply (that is what I understand by your silence on this matter) that only one of these should be at a certain title and the rest at another, when there is no difference in their structure or their native name — that cannot stand. - Biruitorul ^Talk 03:00, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
    • I was haste moving it. As the Orthodox norm is archbishopric (archiepiscopal see), why are articles on Romanian bishoprics using archdiocese, when the translation of the title (Arhiepiscopia), and the denomination of the church itself, suggests that it should not be at diocese, the Roman Catholic equivalent. The other articles on Orthodox subdivisions predominantly do not use "diocese" for their bishoprics. In English, both are used by the Romanian church (note archbishopric, but archdiocese)..--Zoupan 07:08, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
      • It's patently untrue that other churches don't often have "diocese" in their article titles. For starters, I refer you to Diocese of Kazan, Diocese of Novgorod, Diocese of Pskov, Diocese of Saratov, Diocese of Vladimir (Russia); Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Italy; Diocese of Western Europe (Serbian Patriarchate). It's also false that "diocese" has Catholic connotations in English. (In Serbian or in Romanian, it's a different story.) Again, I refer you to the sites of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, and the Serbian Orthodox Diocese of Eastern America. As to why the Romanian naming convention is thus on en.wiki, I suppose things just evolved that way - and again, if you wish to impose a global change, feel free to start a discussion about that. - Biruitorul ^Talk 14:52, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Note that those that use "diocese" in WP are most often diaspora eparchies, except for Russian. I agree a wider discussion is needed.--Zoupan 00:08, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

• Suppot, again: Common search on Google shows that term "Archdiocese of Arad" has 1670 hits, in English, and that is very good considering the fact that former Diocese of Arad was raised to rank od Archdiocese quite recently, in 2009. So, there is no rel issue here! Page should be called "Archdiocese of Arad" since that is consistent with its real name, and also with terminology used for other archdioceses of Romanian Orthodox Church. And I must respond to @Zoupan: You are creating problems where there should be none. This issue is non-existent, and I suspect that you are quite aware of that. So, why on Earth are you pushing this? If you do not like the fact that Eastern Orthodox seat of Arad is Romanian, I must remind you that it had Romanian ethnic majority even in the times when it was part of our Metropolitanate of Karlovci. I am an ethnic Serb and I must ask you, please, do not make problems for our Romanian neighbors! User "Biruitorul" has a point in this mater, that can not be reasonably denied. Sorabino (talk) 05:14, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Please do not vote twice. Those hits are not right. "Archbishopric" is consistent with its real name, Arhiepiscopia. Don't make this into an ethnic issue.--Zoupan 07:08, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

• Support, consistency with all other Romanian Orthodox diocese as pointed out last RM. Always pays to read the talk page of an article before making a move. Jenks24 (talk) 12:25, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.