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Talk:Casualties of the Israel–Hamas war

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Gaza health ministry losing count/lagging[edit]

Should it be mentioned that the Gaza health ministry death toll is starting to slow down, and that it is still stuck at the mid 30 thousands mark for months despite consistent bombardment?

something like how it is very much an undercount given that due to the destruction of the healthcare system the GHM has basically stopped counting The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you got a reliable source? That's what's needed for things like that. Evene better if there is an analysis of why. Anything we did would otherwise just be WP:OR. NadVolum (talk) 12:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There were many, especially old ones from November
this is the most recent I could find from last month
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/in-gaza-authorities-lose-count-of-the-dead-779ff694 The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They get counts from the media and first responders too now. It looks fairly good to me though it isn't as definitive as previously, I'd guess there's less than twenty thousand missing uncounted, they gave an estimate of ten thousand early on. There's a whole lot of problems and evidence of that but you said about the slowing down of the killing. I believe that has happened and it is actual rather than just apparent because the system has broken down, have you a citation either way for that? NadVolum (talk) 11:13, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t know if this is RS. It mentions Ralph Nader saying the death toll can be possibly as high as 200,000
https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/05/31/you-cant-turn-back-the-clock-on-genocide-200000-deaths-in-gaza/ The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 07:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Gaza Health Ministry figures are for casualties due to the war, not disease famine old age or suchlike. There's probably some mixed in by mistake using media reports and responders but not much. Ralph Nader looks like he is including famine and disease from the war. Including those it still won't be anywhere like his figure yet, but the lack of food clean water and sanitation could rapidy turn the situation far worse. I feel sorry about those young Jews in America, they may be rejecting the ADL and Israel's ideas but they'll still be tarred by what is being done in their name. NadVolum (talk) 09:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll put a link to Gaza Strip famine under the famine section. NadVolum (talk) 09:32, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An appreciable amount of that article was about them, should it be cited without looking at it all? I was not warning anybody, I don't know where you get that idea from. There isn't very much they can do about it. NadVolum (talk) 17:41, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@NadVolum the reporting on the civilians to militants ration is wrong, the Arabs channels of PA itself report that 14000 of the Alaqsa brigade are counted in the total death toll, also is never mentioned that PA speaks about martyrs and not civilians, that is a translation for the English public.
the resources in regards to the civilian to militant ration by the IDF are wrong as that is not an official statement due to counting and analysis. 2001:B07:6463:C039:9D19:A374:3FD7:F2D6 (talk) 10:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I douldn't figure out what you were trying to say. Also we can't respond to anything on this contentious topic until a person is registerd and has contributed 50 edits or so. You can request a specific edit, please provide a citation to support any change you want. NadVolum (talk) 12:01, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing information on some statement's real origin[edit]

Under Gaza Strip->Civilians, concerning the last paragraph: "As of 13 May 2024, the U.N. has reported that the 35,000 who have died in the conflict includes 7,797 minors, 4,959 women and 1,924 elderly with confirmed identities. 52% of those killed are women and minors, and 40% are men; the U.N. does not differentiate between combatant and civilian deaths."

There is some information missing (check ref 42 for this, (https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children , just in case the number changes).

The last part cites the UN numbers: "52% of those killed are women and minors, and 40% are men; the U.N. does not differentiate between combatant and civilian deaths."

However, the reference clearly states that the UN clearly relies on the Hamas-run health ministry's numbers, which is a much less trustworthy/legitimate source, considering their direct involvement in the conflict.

This is why I propose rewriting the aforementioned paragraph to something like "As of 13 May 2024, the U.N., relying on numbers published by the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry, has reported..." to make that clear. Teegrube (talk) 17:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the numbers the health ministry publishes are pretty reliable. They have been in the past, and even independent investigations have always come to more or less the same numbers as the Hamas-run agencies. (see: https://theweek.com/defence/how-trustworthy-are-the-gaza-health-ministrys-casualty-numbers, https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/how-reliable-are-gaza-health-ministry-s-death-numbers/7343831.html).
In my personal opinion, I think it is much more likely that the reported number of deaths is less than the actual casualties, especially when thinking about the destruction caused by Israeli attacks, which leads to many bodies not being found. 2A01:599:923:631C:ECEA:B292:5CC2:4CD3 (talk) 07:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See Talk:Israel–Hamas war#"Hamas-run. Sticking in 'Hamas-run' is a propaganda tactic to dehumanize the deaths of Palestinians and the attribution is totally unnecessary. NadVolum (talk) 08:17, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By the way we have to stick by the 52% because that comes from the best source. But actually the percentages for identified deaths are probably rather wild because people can send in identifications, and a major use for that is so widows can claim support if their husbands have died. I've clarified where it was mention that it refers to identified casualties but not said why that is important. NadVolum (talk) 08:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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