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Perhaps the Gaza Health Ministry data from the beginning of the war through April (the same period as the UN report), which says that only 52% of those killed were women and children, should be added to the first paragraph. Also, perhaps, a second pie chart should be added reflecting the GMH data. PotatoKugel (talk) 06:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is when they started reporting the number of killed people whose identies had been verified. There were also very many people killed who had not been identified. A much higher proportion of people who have been killed have now been identified. Why is that particular date important? NadVolum (talk) 22:13, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Stephan rostie, I don't agree with this edit. The OHCHR data is based only on 8,119 of the dead, all of whom meet the requirement of of their death being verified by at least three independent sources. While its a noble effort, it might introduce selection bias, which the report admits to: "a large proportion of the fatalities verified by OHCHR were killed in residential buildings or similar housing is also partly explained by OHCHR’s verification methodology". This selection bias could then impact the demographics of the counts. I prefer sticking to the GHM data that is more comprehensive. The GHM data shows the percentage of children killed is a lot lower (33%) than what the OHCHR has been able to verify in its study (44%). Ping to NadVolum.VR(Please ping on reply)08:46, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I think there's good reasons to believe the number of children killed is being badly underreported to the GHM and the actual overall percentage is closer to that from the OHCHR. The most straightforward is we should expect about twice as many children killed than women from the overall demographics. The GHM figures are the ones we've got to use if only one figure is shown in summaries but I don't think we can just dismiss the OHCA figure otherwise. And a very large percentage of the dead are from residential buildings anyway. NadVolum (talk) 12:58, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@NadVolum Why would GHM underreport child fatalities? The only reason I can think is if somehow child fatalities are disproportionately high in the "buried under rubble" or "missing" category, as that is something the GHM admits its data excludes. GHM data also excludes people dying of otherwise treatable diseases, and in that case epidemiology data (both worldwide and in Gaza war) shows that children are more vulnerable than the general population, but those are indirect casualties.VR(Please ping on reply)15:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty certain they are being badly unreported, as to why - perhaps they are just not considered so important in reports in the field since there are so many of them. Or when a whole family is killed only the parents are mentioned. There could be any number of reasons. Reports from other wars indicates that in explosions they are more likely to die than adults in the same circumstances and that's how most of the women would be killed. I don't know why they're unreported but I would be extremely surprised if it eventually turns out I'm wrong about that. I don't think being buried under the rubble nor dying of malnutrition or disease would explain much of the difference. NadVolum (talk) 16:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so if I understand you correctly, we should:
show both GHM-based demographic breakdown and OHCHR 3-source demographic breakdown in the body and in charts
if a table requires only a single value, let it be the GHM value as that's more widely accepted by sources
Yes. I think if we're going to have one pie chart the GHM figures would be preferable. I don't know what sources the OHCHR used and 3 sources sounds to me like a way of making silly omissions but I guess they've probably got enough experience and know what they're doing. NadVolum (talk) 19:56, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The percentage of men killed compared to women should also be much higher and more in line with the GHM figure. This is probably much more affected by the residental buildings business you mentioned. NadVolum (talk) 15:34, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Vice regent: I'm not sure what 'that' refers to, but the IDF have been targetting militants directly as well as dropping huge bombs on buildings. The figure of 30% men and 26% women implies a figure for militants of about 4% - some would be killed along with women in bombings but that has to balanced against the IDF preferentially killing men even if civilian. A 4% figure would mean only about 1,800 militants killed by now and I don't think even Hamas would try to defend that! NadVolum (talk) 00:36, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
