Talk:Cristina Fernández de Kirchner

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Totally biased[edit]

This article is totally biased. Around 90% of newspapers cited are Clarín and La Nación, which have known conflicts of interests with CFK's administration. It needs to be changed toward a neutral POV. I think the Spanish version would be a good starting point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.96.255.98 (talk) 02:42, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

La Nación is a Newspaper of record, and Clarín is the highest sold newspaper in Argentina. They do not have conflicts of interest with Kirchner, it's Kirchner who has a conflict with everyone and everything that does not bow to her in absolute obedience. Cambalachero (talk) 02:52, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Ooooh, we have the objective opinion of the week here! La Nación being a Newspaper of record doesn't change the fact of it having conflicts of interest with CFK, neither Clarín being the highest sold newspaper in Argentina. Ever heard of Papel Prensa? Ever heard of digital television standards? I can't believe someone would even try to sustain what you just wrote. Come on!168.96.255.98 (talk) 03:06, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Both newspapers qualify as reliable sources. Period. This is not a forum to discuss with whom the current government has conflicts with.--Jetstreamer Talk 10:16, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Oh, yeah? According to who? Clarín and La Nación are totally biased in matters regarding the current government. Sources like Página 12, Miradas al Sur, Veintitrés, etc. need to be included to neutralize the article (read the Spanish version, for God's sake!). Cambalachero has been editing-out all attempts to include references to sources not critical of the government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.96.255.98 (talk) 19:18, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I agree. Cambalachero either doesn't understand Spanish or is purposely making false and misleading statements. He translated a statement about hotels in Patagonia being mostly empty in winter to CFK's hotels being mostly empty. This is a VERY BIASED interpretation to give the illusion that they were only existing for money laundering or something. Monkeypuzzled (talk) 13:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
That's simple summary style. El Calafate is a winter vacation resort, so to say that an hotel is mostly empty "in winter" and say that it is mostly empty, period, is the same thing. And no, there is no "illusion", the article cited is not a lost comment inside some newspaper article that talks about something unrelated, it is an article that is precisely talking about "money laundering or something". Read the whole article. If a terrain is bought at $150,000 and then sold at $2,400,000, what else are we talking about, if not of money laundering? Cambalachero (talk) 17:51, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
  • No, it is not simple summary style. You are purposefully obfuscating what the article says. "Está llena de hoteles lujosos y en funcionamiento pero vacíos de turistas, al menos en invierno." I translate this as... "It (Calafate) is full of luxurious hotels up and running, but empty of tourists in winter." Since most people go to Calafate in summer, the impact is minor. I've edited it in NPOV, as a compromise, but it really doesn't belong in the article.Monkeypuzzled (talk) 12:17, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
It's also hard for me to find a direct connection between this stuff and the core of the article.--Jetstreamer Talk 17:46, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
You wanna find a connection? The connection is that this Cambalachero's practically the sole editor of this article, being the only frequent editor with enough privileges to do whatever he wants. The result is a totally biased and misleading article about a current president. You can see for yourself Cambalachero's totally "anti-K" above (I cite: "it's Kirchner who has a conflict with everyone and everything that does not bow to her in absolute obedience"), and he's using this article to express his own vision of the political reality of Argentina. This is a terrible thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.49.43.130 (talk) 17:04, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
How about you go read the Talk page on the spanish version of this article? For example: "(...) Wikipedia's not Clarín nor Págnina/12, as I had said before. I insist that in order to obtain biased information we go read those newspapers. This is an encyclopedia." (a comment by user "Erico Valadares"; http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discusión:Cristina_Fernández_de_Kirchner#Ciencia_y_tecnologia). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.175.173.156 (talk) 18:16, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
I subscribe the accusations of biased information. In the Antonini Wilson scandal, the U.S. Embassy sources quoted are newspapers, when Santiago O'Donnell's book [i]Argenleaks[/i] is a First Hand source. In research and academic papers first hand sources should always be used when available. Overall, most of the sources are newspapers rather than books or other research papers. Newspaper articles are not always signed or thoroughly researched. Online newspapers and articles create the illusion of multiple independent sources, while actually most are copies of the same newspaper source. henry_the_horse 200.3.190.65 (talk) 04:35, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:No original research says the opposite thing, secondary sources such as newspapers are preferred over first hand sources. And yes, books may be better than newspapers when possible, but that's hard to do with subjects that keep generating new information daily, such as sitting heads of state. In any case, newspapers are not a problem just for being newspapers or for being online, La Nación is a newspaper of record and that makes it a reliable source, despite of such trivial concerns. Cambalachero (talk) 13:42, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi I just wanted to say that in my opinion this article is terrible biased. Anyone with minimal knowledge of Argentinian politics

would say this article is just an editorial. I don't know wikipedia's rules about citing etc, but i have read the discussion and it is clear for me that "Cambalachero" is using this article in an attempt to harm CFK's reputation (but the only reputation being harmed is Wikipedia's) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.46.249.46 (talk) 18:36, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Cambalachero (talk · contribs) is not the one editing the article. Aside from complaining, there are other ways to contribute to Wikipedia, i.e. editng it according to the policies. I don't think Cambalachero has broken any of them.--Jetstreamer Talk 21:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Cambalachero twists the policies so no one can put a reference to a newspaper that says good things about CFK. And given his privileges, he can do whatever he wants, unless some other user with enough privileges and a true commitment to Wikipedia's neutrality does something. 168.96.149.224 (talk) 07:05, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Which privileges? You're free to create an account and edit the same way most of the users do it.--Jetstreamer Talk 10:52, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Awful article. Completely disbalanced and biased. Borderline insulting to the intelligence of the reader. I think Cambalachero should get a life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.254.4.13 (talk) 14:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Anyone is free to edit the article, of course subject to the policies and guidelines of this site. WP:BOLD.--Jetstreamer Talk 14:48, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Jetstreamer: Are you saying this article is not biased? Honestly. It seems rather clear to me that Cambalachero is using it as a means of expressing his own political views. Only references to Clarín and La Nación, but not to Página 12? At the end of the header you can read critics to her government, but not a single achievement? It seems to me Cambalachero is an experienced Wikipedist (you can tell he has a thorough knowledge of Wikipedia's rules), but, sadly, he's using that knowledge to handle this article as he pleases.181.15.176.3 (talk) 23:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Ok, just removed the libelous reference to her title, something that was discredited BY THE UNIVERSITY ITSELF. I added sources. Let's see how long it takes for cambalachero to vandalize it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.254.4.13 (talk) 15:34, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I propose that the criticism should be moved to a section under that name. At this point, in this article, a lot of editorial content is shown as fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.254.4.13 (talk) 15:43, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Disgustingly biased. I can't believe this is a Wikipedia article — I literally looked at the adress bar to verify if I really was on Wikipedia. Section by section this is just a piece of "Anti-K" and conservative propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.50.167.37 (talk) 02:05, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Article sections[edit]

Most articles about modern heads of state do not have sections for each year, they have sections for each major topic within their administrations (economy, international policy, the main political disputes during their term, etc.). See for example the article of Barack Obama, which is a featured article. Cambalachero (talk) 13:01, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

@Cambalachero: Hey, That was a good idea to change the topics, but removing material without discussing it in the talk page by you was not a good action. Please restore the deleted sentences. Thanks Mhhossein (talk) 08:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

2015[edit]

There is too much about the Nisman case in this section. I resembles more a brief description of the case than a section about her 2015 actions. I think the things about the Nisman case should be made shorter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.25.166.93 (talk) 01:06, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

That's the main noteworthy topic involving her in this year, so far. Still, I will redesign the article in some days, by topic instead of year. Nisman's death would be included in a topic dealing with the investigation of the AMIA bombing under her government. Cambalachero (talk) 03:47, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Critisism shown as fact[edit]

I appeal to the common sense of this wikipedia community. Stop manipulating the article to reflect your own political interests ideas and bias. We should show facts and we are only showing a collection of accusations, many of them dubious. Stop treating people as idiots. Balance the sources. Balance the ideas and remove critisism from the introductory statement. IT DOES NOT BELONG THERE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.254.4.10 (talk) 17:30, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Explanation of the neutral point of view, we do not present facts as if they were opinions. I have seen your recent edit to the article, and adding things such as "accused of", "allegedly", "so-said", "have been claimed", etc; before claims is not a good writing standard. I am familiar with the Kirchnerite policy of pretending that everything is relative and depends on who says it, but for the rest of the world 2+2=4 no matter who says it. We don't care if an outlandish populist leader and his network of propaganda says that 2 + 2 = 5, we have to call a spade a spade. Cambalachero (talk) 18:06, 29 July 2015 (UTC)