Talk:Deaths in June 2020

Carlo Ubbiali

What does "six-time Grand Prix winner" mean? Ubbiali is a nine-time world champion und has 39 race wins. --Intimidator (talk) 02:20, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm only guessing (not my area of expertise, motor sports), but the six-times Grand Prix statement is consistent with his own article lead-in, at least as far as the 125cc class goes. I assume you add on the three 250cc titles to make the nine? If it's plain wrong in your opinion, it's there to be edited. (I think the "race wins" stat is a little too deep for a one-line obit entry.) Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:23, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Changed to nine and added the WC bit. Tied for third all-time. Wyliepedia @ 06:34, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:38, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Arrogate

Why is this animal described as 'Male Horse' rather than 'Stallion' ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greetham J (talk • contribs) 13:09, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

This list does not usually make note of sex or gender, unless part of a natural occupation title or a superlative. Arrogate's occupation is listed as a racehorse and the description of his notability indicates he won a notable award called the American Champion Three-Year-Old Male Horse. Vycl1994 (talk)

Thanks - It just seemed odd but if that's how the leftpondians talk, who am I to argue :) Two Nations divided by a common language! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greetham J (talk • contribs) 15:50, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. Colt (three year old) is more concise. Editrite! (talk) 01:43, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

I genuinely don't know this, so don't shoot, but why is a horse included in a list of recent deaths? Is there any prior precedent to including animals in a list in which I normally only see humans? Dane|Geld 15:23, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

There is precedent to include deaths of notable plants and animals. Lonesome George is mentioned at the FAQ on top of this talk page. Discussion regarding the listing of animals and plants include 2017 and 2019, as well as these two sections on this very talk page. While people without articles are usually listed for thirty days before their removal from this list, animals and plants must have their notability asserted by the presence of a bluelinked article. If articles are deleted, the listings are removed. Vycl1994 (talk) 17:07, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Joseph Rizzo, brother of Frank Rizzo

Joseph Rizzo was the former fire commissioner of Philadelphia, appointed by his brother Frank when the latter was elected mayor. See Philadelphia Inquirer. He died June 1, but it was apparently not reported until today.

There is already a WP article on a very unrelated Joseph Rizzo. 73.81.116.68 (talk) 01:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

"Died June 8", per your source. I personally won't add him, because it seems too local (there isn't a Philadelphia Fire Commissioner article either), but I wouldn't remove his entry should others list him (without Frank's notability). Wyliepedia @ 05:19, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Pass. Certainly a notability issue in the wider sense. Ref ^(chew)(do) 07:19, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

It is too local. Usually Mayors of towns of more than 150k are the only notable officials that would rate on a national scale. There are exceptions for people on the city council and in the police and fire departments who are involved in notable things such as specific crimes, getting major projects pushed through or legislated, or having a film based off of their exploits (Serpico for instance).SunnyDoo, 17:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Won't happen. Wyliepedia @ 06:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

In the weird wild world of death with the rule of 3, we now have our 2nd death this month revolving around the Rizzos. Delbert Africa died today and he was in direct conflict with the mayor. Its kind of funny how this all plays out sometimes.SunnyDoo, 19:28, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Mohammed Nasim

So, his own page mentions COVID-19 as cause of death. Half a dozen articles, which I linked, make plain clear that he tested positive, his family tested positive, he had been hospitalized for COVID-19, brain haemorrage and stroke occurred while he was being treated for COVID-19. Why are you so hell bent on blaming his death on "not COVID-19"? --Pesqara (talk) 14:23, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Because you have not produced one source that says definitively “he died of COVID”. WWGB (talk) 14:27, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

By the same reasoning, you have not produced one source that says definitively “he died of a stroke”. --Pesqara (talk) 14:33, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Happy to omit. COD is undisclosed. WWGB (talk) 14:37, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Then you would have to omit 90% of death causes in this page. --Pesqara (talk) 14:39, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

If something necessitates your life support, then you die when life support ends, it killed you. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:43, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

I can't very exercised about this but the longstanding practice on this page is only to provide one reference per person. Someone else, who knows more about him, choose which one. Rcb1 (talk) 14:50, 13 June 2020 (UTC)rcb1

He ultimately died of a stroke, or cerebral hemorrhage, but that was likely caused by COVID, which is a systemic illness rather than a respiratory one. Actually I'd go for "stroke and COVID-19", though more correct would be "stroke as a complication from COVID-19". It's a bit like the Urdu poet who died yesterday: he was negative to COVID, but "left him so frail" he died of a "cardiac arrest" just a few days later. In both cases COVID was not the ultimate CoD, but almost surely responsible for their demises, so I'd cite it as a concurrent CoD. --Folengo (talk) 15:50, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

As I read it in the source being used at the time, he was admitted to hospital with a stroke. While there, he was also tested for COVID-19 and came up positive. Later on, before the effects of the stroke became terminal, they tested again and it was negative. That timeline and scenario was the only reason I made the edit discounting coronavirus, and started this whole shebang it seems. It could have been an incorrect test first and a correct one second (in which case COVID would not enter into it at all), or vice versa of course - or (slim chance) he could have made a virus recovery between tests while in hospital. That all appears to leave it pure guesswork as to whether his period of infection counted towards his worsening stroke; the stroke might be going to take him anyway, regardless of treatment or virus. The only SURE thing about his death was the stroke part. That was my rationale as far as the source being used was concerned. If other sources, reliable ones, tell a different story, use them and change it however you see it. (Note: never come on here to argue veracity of sources and say "his own article says". That's a self-contained Wikipedia construction too and can be just as wrong as you think we were here.) Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:53, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

WP:NOR exists as policy for a reason. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:46, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Multiple sources report that Mohammed Nasim was admitted for COVID-19, not stroke, which instead occurred while he was undergoing treatment for COVID-19. This article states that: "Nasim, who served Hasina in four different cabinet roles, was admitted to the hospital on June 1 with Covid-19 symptoms, including fever and cold. His tests came back as positive later. Four days later, on June 5, he was rushed into surgery after suffering a stroke. He was kept on life support since then. A second test of his samples came back as negative, but his condition continued to deteriorate." This other article also says that "Nasim was hospitalised with a fever on Jun 1 and later tested positive for the novel coronavirus. With underlying health conditions, he had undergone brain surgery after suffering a stroke during treatment. Nasim was put in intensive care and later on life support, doctors said. Although he later tested negative for COVID-19, his condition showed no signs of improvement over the following days. Nasim had initially tested negative for the coronavirus but his wife and a house help had been confirmed to have caught COVID-19. But as his fever, cough and other health conditions began to worsen, the family got him admitted to the hospital on Jun 1 and a second test confirmed he had contracted the virus." The very article that is currently used as source repeatedly mentions that he had COVID. It would seem to me that COVID-19 should really be mentioned as cause of death. Folengo and InedibleHulk: There is no original research here. All articles about Nasim - including the one currently used as source - explicitly mention that he was hospitalized for COVID, that he tested positive for covid, that his wife and one of his house assistants were confirmed as having covid, that the stroke occurred while he was undergoing treatment for covid. --Pesqara (talk) 22:48, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

They don't say COVID killed him or caused the fatal stroke. Saying so here is OR. Having or possibly having COVID does not preclude dying of normal things in or around that time. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:25, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

They don't say that the stroke killed him, either, if we want to be this ridiculous. Saying so here is also OR. By the same standard, most causes of death in this page are OR. --Pesqara (talk) 23:40, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Just explained life support above, not retyping it. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:45, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Nothing in a reasoning process which consists of deciding between two outcomes based on multiple sources is ridiculous. Trying to blur the lines of the process by descending it into a squabble is also not good. Ref ^(chew)(do) 08:46, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Edén Pastora

Hello all, are you sure Edén Pastora died the 13 from COVID-19? The NYT said he died today not from COVID-19 -> [1] --Danielvis08 (talk) 16:47, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Seeing as the presently listed source was published days before the NYT article, it is safe to say the NYT article saying he died today is incorrect. Rusted AutoParts 16:58, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Ok. but other sources, Associated Press etc, begin to pop on google that says all he died early tuesday. --Danielvis08 (talk) 17:02, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Did he died Tuesday June 2, 2020 [2] I don't read Spanish. --Danielvis08 (talk) 17:08, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

No he had been hospitalized since June 2. Rusted AutoParts 17:20, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

On the other sources saying early Tuesday front, I’d chalk that up to just miming what NYT said. Rusted AutoParts 17:19, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello Rusted AutoParts. Read this, I'm not sure but I think he died today and the 13 wasn't the right date, just a rumour [3] --Danielvis08 (talk) 17:28, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Well that certainly throws a spanner in things. Why wouldn’t the source the 13th correct their article as the death wasn’t confirmed? Rusted AutoParts 17:30, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

I know wiki isn't a good source but the spanish wiki also changed for the 16th [4]. --Danielvis08 (talk) 17:35, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

See also [5].--Masegand (talk) 18:30, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

I didnt realize there was a discussion going on in the Talk page. I changed the article that was linked to a more coherent one from the AP wire. It describes his death by respiratory failure with no mention of COVID.SunnyDoo, 19:47, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Bob

For any feline lovers out there, Bob the Cat has passed. He was the subject of 3 best selling novels in England and 2 films- all of which are covered in Wikidom, eg A Street Cat Named Bob (film). Article can be found here: http://islingtontribune.com/article/bob-the-cat-has-died. Has to have an article before he can be added as per the rule.SunnyDoo, 19:33, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Interesting to read that, as well as "Bob", there were stand-ins for the star in the film called Oscar, Booker, Jafffa, Leo, Ricki and Trayce. Odds of a standalone article? Zero, purely because of that piece of movie trickery, I think. Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:42, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

He’s been added numerous times and I’ve taken him out twice. @BrocktonBomber: won’t stop adding him in. Bob is no separate article and as per standard shouldn’t be added. Rusted AutoParts 23:57, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Bizarre reasoning from User:Rusted AutoParts, since Bob is the main subject of multiple articles. It sounds more like you have a personal ax to grind and are trying to hide behind an unreasonably restricted interpretation of Wiki norms. In this month alone, there are well over a dozen listed deaths for people who do not have an article. 82.176.221.176 (talk) 10:11, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

And I would like to add that it is sufficiently noteworthy to merit a number of news articles, including: [6], [7], [8], [9]. 82.176.221.176 (talk) 10:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

And in 30 days, those non-entries will be removed. Human biographies have a greater chance of surviving verifiable notability than animals. Wyliepedia @ 20:17, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

I think the best way forward would be for someone to write a short stub about Bob (Bob (cat)), including his real life and movie appearance. Then he can be listed here without contradiction. WWGB (talk) 11:02, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

You do, of course, mean "Bob the Seven Cats" (see my post above). Not me. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:42, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Milan Kundera

Heads up. His "death" is a Twitter rumour and is once removed from the list. Ref ^(chew)(do) 12:50, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Dan Foster COD

According to everything I can find, the COD for Dan Foster of COVID-19 has not been confirmed. As such, I think it should be removed. Thoughts? 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 17:38, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

I was thinking that earlier. All we have is "suspected" and "it has been reported" (by whom? An official health source? Another newspaper?) in most of the sources. Not verified. Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:01, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

However, this source backs up the one being used, and quotes his wife as confirming the cause was COVID-19. So it should stay in, in my opinion. Ref ^(chew)(do) 21:32, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I did not know that a family member was a health official or any kind of official to make an official announcement. Family members have been known to say one thing when actual autopsy/official/death certificate state something else. How about waiting on listing COD until an official/professional announcement is made? Just a thought. 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 00:47, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Talking point

Hi. I have recently repositioned Jean Kennedy Smith after her entry was moved to a different date. I notice that she was positioned under K for Kennedy in the old edit, but the defaultsort for her own article says "Smith, Jean Kennedy" which surely means she should be under S for Smith (and that's where I've moved her to). Is there some contentious issue I'm not aware of regarding her naming, either here or at her article? Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:48, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I remember pointing at a DEFAULTSORT for someone here somewhat recently and being semiviciously skewered for daring to suggest it mattered to this subworld, but my memory is fuzzy and our archives are confusing. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:56, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

InedibleHulk: Is this what you're talking about? If so, you weren't "semiviciously skewered" by me. I was merely pointing out the differences and, possibly, errors at the entry's article. Wyliepedia @ 00:53, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

No, this was earlier, last year or so, explicitly about default sorting. Might have been you shishkebabbing me softly, definitely someone regular. Sorry for the scantness of this lead, but precedent is out there. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:19, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Whatever the yeys and nays, surely the article is the lead for us, the example from which we take our cue? If the article is wrong it should be changed before we reflect the new status here, I would have thought. Thanks for the input. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:22, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Graham Salisbury

For a heads up to editors, the Graham Salisbury, the Australian horse jockey that has passed at 76 is not the same Graham Salisbury who is an American author that is also 76. Just providing the distinction in the event someone adds in the author. Rusted AutoParts 20:41, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

The name hasn’t been added to Deaths in 2020 yet though. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 20:46, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

And he was never a jockey. Read the obituary at [10] and you'll see he was just a course official for Racing Victoria. He was only "in the saddle" in terms of his service to the organisation, and realistically while riding a horse called Subzero around on promotional visits. Bare notability if any I think. Not added. Ref ^(chew)(do) 07:30, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

So he doesn’t qualify then. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 14:01, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

There are hundreds, probably thousands of race officials in the world, and it's not a noteworthy occupation. Had he been a jockey, he would still have had to win something significant or have raced a career's worth of top class events. But he wasn't, and he didn't. The fact that he was a committed promoter of Racing Victoria on the back of the horse Subzero during a number of promotions doesn't increase his notability enough if at all. Ref ^(chew)(do) 00:22, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Denise Jallais

Hello. Death of Denise Jallais on June 13 is unsourced (as it is in her French article), and I can't find any source other than her funeral announcement already linked. So I think it should be moved to June 18 with a "(death announced on this date)". Regards, Xavier 90.6.207.63 (talk) 06:22, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

If you follow the link titled "Ses informations >Je consulte l'avis de décès" at the one and only obituary page [11], you will see that the announcement was made by that site on June 16th, so that's what I'll change the listed entry to reflect. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 07:17, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

OK (and my 18 was a typo, sorry). Thanks, Xavier 90.6.207.63 (talk) 07:47, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Jose Cutileiro times two

There are TWO Jose Cutileiros (father and son) listed, one in June (son), and the other in May. The problem is that only one has an article (father) and the blue link for the son goes to the father. It was changed to a red link earlier and clearly indicated in the edit summary. Editrite! (talk) 07:17, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

José Cutileiro Jr., which you linked, now redirects to his mention at his father's article, as per usual with less-notable family members or spouses. Feel free to expand the redirect. Wyliepedia @ 08:24, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Observation: It's a valid redirect, that method always has been, but it does lead to entry removal after thirty days. Ref ^(chew)(do) 12:45, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Age of Huey

I'm reading several articles that say he was either 31 or 32 when he died. Articles that say 31:[12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23] These articles say 32:[24], [25], [26], [27], [28], [29], [30], [31], [32], [33] What should be done about it? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 14:21, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

In its related article, Huey, the verified DOB with a reliale source is JAN-1-1989;[34] the DOD is JUN-25-2020.[35] When the math is done, the result is 31 years, 5 months, 3 weeks, 3 days, so it will be kept as 31.{{reply to|Can I Log In}}'s talk page! 17:02, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I got confused, so that’s why I wanted to ask. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 17:58, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Date of birth dispute discussion at Talk:Huey (rapper)

There is currently a discussion at Talk:Huey (rapper) regarding a date of birth dispute about Huey and subtle vandalism. The thread is Huey—information not contained at sources. {{reply to|Can I Log In}}'s talk page! 21:59, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

I'll look at it now. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 22:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Sometimes it takes a day or two for things to wash out. Eventually the info will right itself.SunnyDoo, 03:40, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

MA has been blocked for one month. [36] WWGB (talk) 12:54, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Again?? Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:13, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Emy Phelps has died

Emy Phelps died June 22, 2020. Singer / Songwriter. She played on many recordings with Darol Anger. Cause of death was lymphoma. Still trying to find an obituary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.98.176.46 (talk) 12:36 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, unfortunately without a source, she's not notable. She's not even mentioned at Darol's page, and he was her caretaker caregiver in her last years. Wyliepedia @ 16:32, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

I've joined the search, no luck so far. (BTW, this source says she was actually Darol's wife, as stated by him in interview. More than a caretaker?) Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:12, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

I think she married Darol Anger in her last days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.98.176.46 (talk) 00:51, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

More like a caregiver, I would say. Editrite! (talk) 02:24, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

74.98.176.46 - just to be clear, the "marriage" interview link I quoted was from 2015. Why would he claim in interview that they were married five years ago and then actually marry only recently? Ref ^(chew)(do) 07:28, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Extremely disappointing that Darol Anger has not so far formally announced in print the passing of Emy Phelps. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:48, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

He did, in his on way, on Facebook and in the following week. Wyliepedia @ 02:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Nothing we can use to introduce her here though. Ref ^(chew)(do) 05:47, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

The Old Apple Tree

Any fans of trees or the State of Washington may want to handle this one. The Old Apple Tree has died at the age of 194. As the article states, it was the matriarch to the apple industry in Washington producing both the first apple in the state and the first commercial crop. Must have an article before it can be added to the list.[37] Consider that a cider house rule.SunnyDoo, 00:14, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Federica Bubba

Federica Bubba (25th June) is to me a notability concern. A researcher who had not completed her PhD, she appears to be notable only for being one of nine founders of an organisation I've never heard of. She has no article in her native Italian Wikipedia. Ref ^(chew)(do) 21:22, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

She had completed 2 PHDs in other fields in Paris, but was working on a 3rd in Italy. I am seeing a number of research papers she authored or was part of the research on, but no notable awards. I dont really have an opinion on this one, but leaning against inclusion.SunnyDoo, 22:23, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

30 days then. I'm not worried if that's the case. Ref ^(chew)(do) 00:41, 30 June 2020 (UTC)