Talk:Dorothee Manski

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A fact from Dorothee Manski appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 16 February 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Dorothee Manski, a soprano of the Berlin Court Opera, gave 335 performances at the Metropolitan Opera after being invited to appear there as the Witch in Humperdinck's Hänsel und Gretel in 1927?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Dorothée Manski.

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Chipmunkdavis (talk) 15:58, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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... that Dorothee Manski, a soprano from the Berlin Court Opera, was invited to appear as The Witch in Humperdinck's Hänsel und Gretel at the Metropolitan Opera in 1927, and went on to sing 335 performances at the house? Source: [1] for the premiere and the figure, and others

Reviewed: Hilda Ellis Davidson
Comment: I asked if the article should be moved because the diacritic appears only in library files, but no answer yet.

Created by Ser Amantio di Nicolao (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 14:08, 2 February 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Article is new enough, long enough, no obvious copyvio. QPQ is done and verified. Hook fact is verifiable. HOWEVER: I see no reason to pipe the subject's name in the hook. Also, per the article, we have "... as the Witch in Humperdinck's Hansel and Gretel ..." so why does the hook say "... as The Witch in Humperdinck's Hänsel und Gretel ..."? Also the article says "with the company" rather than "at the house". Is the 335 performances specific to the Witch or a total of all her roles, the hook is a little misleading if the latter... If the hook is refactored to reflect the usage within the article and is unambiguous, and the subject is unpiped, this is good to go. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 11:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for looking! We can say "company", why not, it was the same house for all of her career (but not the same house as today). However, how would we elegantly say that of course that is the over-all count, which is high. (Compare the 22 for Maria Callas [2] who appeared in one live broadcast which was aired last Saturday.) The opera is rarely performed, even in Germany. If you look for Hänsel in the source, you find 49. It is almost quirky that they invited someone to cross the ocean for that role (and was good for her and her later life). Can you help me to a proper phrase in English?

... that Dorothee Manski, a soprano from the Berlin Court Opera, was invited to appear as The Witch in Humperdinck's Hänsel und Gretel at the Metropolitan Opera in 1927, and went on to sing 335 performances with the company? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:28, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot: the subject has the name as in the hook because that is the name in ALL sources. The article was created (not by me) the other name because that is the name WorldCat and other libraries have. I think it should be moved, and began a discussion on Project Opera, with little response. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:30, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I think the name should not be piped, if it's moved before the DYK runs, then we can change the hook: it looks unprofessional to send readers to an article with a slightly different name. The other issues are the capitalisation in "The Witch" and the different "Hansel and Gretel" links and formatting. I fear this may be trying to cram too many feats in one hook, I have no idea how many performances is "a lot" and would assume that when you mention a role and then go on to say "to sing 335 performances" then that would all be of the previously mentioned work. I imagine West End performers have made hundreds of performances of the same work on decades-long theatre runs. So perhaps just stick to one fact, or reorganise such that you mention her 335 performances for the Metropolitan Opera, including as the Witch...? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 13:15, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

E.g.: ... that Dorothee Manski, a soprano from the Berlin Court Opera, made 335 performances at the Metropolitan Opera after being invited to appear there as the Witch in Humperdinck's Hansel and Gretel in 1927?
I was bold and moved it. Mandarax, magic? [Done. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 17:28, 9 February 2021 (UTC)] Well, I like to please, so will adopt your offer although I think it's a strange chronology, and "made" not my favourite verb. The opera is given with a German title in the Met archive, so I changed the article, but "the" should be lowercase for the Witch, sorry about that.[reply]

ALT1: ... that Dorothee Manski, a soprano from the Berlin Court Opera, made 335 performances at the Metropolitan Opera after being invited to appear there as the Witch in Humperdinck's Hänsel und Gretel in 1927? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:46, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gerda Arendt You could go for "gave 335 performances" if you prefer that? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Good idea, thank you!

ALT1a: ... that Dorothee Manski, a soprano from the Berlin Court Opera, gave 335 performances at the Metropolitan Opera after being invited to appear there as the Witch in Humperdinck's Hänsel und Gretel in 1927? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:56, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
peachy, this is good to go, thanks for your patience while we got it over the line. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 22:32, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
thank you! - want a tough job: review BWV 1 for FAC? ... or BWV 227 for GA which may be tougher? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:03, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. I'm staying out of FAC at the moment, the place doesn't want my type of nomination nor my kind of reviews so I'll focus my energy elsewhere! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:13, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
... which makes the place worse, but what could I do? How about the GA then. I nominated it, it was failed, I nominated it again, but the one who failed it intervened so much that the reviewer gave up, then the failer nominated it. I haven't seen anything like it, and nobody dares to touch it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:36, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]