Talk:Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev was copied or moved into Dzhokhar Tsarnaev with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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nationality

Kyrgyz is an ethnic term. Citizens or those otherwise identified as belonging to the country are Kyrgyzstani. Same with Kazakhstani, Tajikistani, Uzbekistani, and in Russian there is an equivalent distinction of Russian by ethnicity from citizen of Russia. I will change this and remove the "discuss this before changing" secret edit. To anyone who knows anything of Central Asia this is an important distinction. Nlight2 (talk) 07:48, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

By "Kyrgyz" the article means a citizen of the country of Kyrgyzstan, as Dzhokhar indeed had citizenship of that country. Dzhokhar is not an ethnic Kyrgyz. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:50, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

thank you for the edit - I was wondering if there was a suitable demonym. The "discuss this before changing" was aimed at editors outright changing from "man" to "terrorist" without explanation. Again, thank you. hbdragon88 (talk) 01:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tsarnaev brothers are were only born in Kyrgyzstan, their nationality are chechens, country Chechnia ( Chechnya ) Bishkekgal8888 (talk) 00:45, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Bishkekgal8888: NDTV states that Tamerlan indeed had Russian citizenship but Dzhokhar had Kyrgyz citizenship. The source also states that while Dzhokhar was born in Kyrgyzstan, Tamerlan was born in Kalmykia. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:48, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In WHAT area?

The subsection Family background contains this sentence in its first paragraph"

"According to some, other Chechen Americans in the area apparently did not consider the American branch of the family to be "fully" Chechen because they had never lived in Chechnya."

But what area is referred to in the phrase "in the area" is left entirely unclear. 2601:200:C000:1A0:9CE9:DF69:6F9B:BAB5 (talk)

Often answering such questions means checking the source article, from Rolling Stone in this case. However I can't find the word "fully" (which would suggest a direct quote) so I removed the sentence for failed verification. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:04, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Newer URL for Jahar's World, and I failed to find a phrase which supported the sentence above. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:13, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bizarrely humanized intro sentence?

Tamerlan Tsarnaev's wiki article introduces him as "an American-based Chechen terrorist and former boxer." Ramzi Yousef (perpetrator of the 1993 WTC bombing) is introduced as "a Pakistani convicted terrorist." Nidal Hasan (Fort Hood shooter) is "an American former Army major, physician and mass murderer."

Yet Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is "a Kyrgyz-American man of Chechen descent, convicted of terrorism."

You see that subtle difference? He's not a terrorist or a mass murder - first and foremost he is a man, a human, a fellow - who happens to be convicted of terrorism. It almost makes it sound like he's not guilty. He didn't do it, he was just convicted of it - perhaps unfairly!

What is this bizarre framing? Makes it sound like article authors are trying to portray him in a sympathetic light and sounds really unobjective and stylistically inappropriate.

176.58.194.125 (talk) 18:20, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, the descriptions you cite in your opening paragraph are bizarrely dehumanized. Whether you believe in a soul or not, we are all humans before we are anything else.

It is not justice to dehumanize with words those who have dehumanized with violence. People do violence to one another all the time, directly and indirectly, in large ways and in small ways. Those same people love and are loved. Do you think you can judge who remains "human" without damaging your own capacity for love? Pay attention and you will see that the word "terrorist" behaves much like an ethnic slur.

Who decides where the threshold lies between human and less-than-human? Those who kill with violence did not make the world that made them killers. 2600:6C64:7D3F:6900:7439:F214:1B32:766B (talk) 12:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nationality dispute

Sorry to make a new point of this—I realize it had loosely been discussed above, but I've found some conflicting info on Tsarnaev's nationality. I know we currently cite NDTV for the claim that Tsarnaev was born in Kyrgyzstan and was a Kyrgyz citizen. The NDTV (really, the Indo-Asian News Service) is attributing that information to Joomart Otorbayev, the first deputy prime minister of the former Soviet republic. (Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, Boston bombing suspect, was born in Kyrgyzstan, says minister).

But, to be honest, that struck me as a strange source (the minister, not the IA News Service), so I Googled.

I found a BBC article that said that Tsarnaev was thought to have been born in Kyrgyzstan in 1994. But then I found this Radio Free Europe article that said the family left Kyrgyzstan in 1992 and that Dzhokhar was born in Russia's republic of Daghestan in 1993. I then found this article from the Guardian that addressed both, saying, "Local police, cited in Kyrgyz media, suggest that both were born in Kyrgyzstan. But family members in the US said the younger brother, Dzhokhar, was born in Dagestan."

@WhisperToMe: I see you were involved in disputes related to this before, so I wanted to make sure I tagged you. Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 12:35, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Jerome Frank Disciple: Thank you for letting me know! If there is no consensus among sources on where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was born and/or his citizenship, I would write "disputed" and describe the various claims. I would go with a consensus if such was formed among sources that evaluated the claims of such. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:55, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah absolutely! I did find a source, a review of Marsha Gessen's book The Brothers that said, "In the late 1980s and ’90s, the Tsarnaev family moved peripatetically across Central Asia." I think that probably means the answer isn't really knowable here. I've tried to update the article accordingly. P.s. I also found a source—the LA Times which said that says Tamerlan had Kyrgyzstani and Russian citizenship. Given that Russia, at least allegedly, tried to suppress the brothers' links to Russia (see [1] (noting that Russian ties were off limits to Russian media) ... or, less on point, [2] (noting that the Russian consulate had quickly announced that neither brother was a citizen of Russia) ... I have to admit I wonder if the former Russian minister is a reliable source as to Dzhokhar's citizenship—after all, IA News printed the statement, not the bare claim. --Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 12:31, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Dzhojar Tsárnayev.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:38, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Profile background and descent

Why is his descent not solely mentioned in "Personal background", like the standard? Wiki of Artur Beterbiev and Khamzat Chimaev are examples. 213.49.80.160 (talk) 05:46, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]