Talk:Hanna Reitsch

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Eve[edit]

I strongly dispute the neutrality of this article. Compare it to the German version. Best remebered for trying to reach the bunker? I think not. Also, the use of the word "aviatrix" is somewhat belittling. The quotes from Hans Dollingers book are unsubstantiated.

As a goddamned Nazi, she deserves no respect whatsoever. If anything, this article is far too indulgent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:667F:C189:C9E6:AE6D:5E1A:9930 (talk) 02:29, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Eve completely. I dispute the neutrality of this article. The article says her father killed her sister and sisters children but provides no source for this assertion. This is consistent with other wikipedia articles. Its estimated that between 14 and 20 million Germans were brutally expelled from their homes and cities in eastern europe. 2 million German women were raped (many gang raped) by allied soldiers. But according to every wikipedia article I have read on these atrocities, allied soldiers never killed any Germans. According to wikipedia, the infamous Nemmersdorf massacre never happened or at least the Russian army didn't kill these Germans (National Geographic in a 2007 article and most historians disagree) . Another case of a self-inflicted atrocity? I removed the statement that Reitsch's father killed his own family until a reliable source is provided. If wikiipedia would like to talk to someone with with good knowledge of how the allies mistreated German civilians, I can speak to you about how my mother and her sisters were humiliated and mistreated by the allies. Germans did not kill their own families, allied soldiers murdered the fleeing German civilians en-masse. I have read a few articles on Reitsch (including articles from wikipedia in other languages) since reading this article and nowhere else does it say that Reitsch's father killed his family. Also, in order to make this article more complete I will give you the picture of Miss Reitsch visiting Kennedy - http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/reitsch.jpg. It probably shouldn't surprise me you have several pictures of Hanna Reitsch but the one of her visiting President Kennedy is omitted. One further comment. This is an article filled with editorializing and hate against Reitsch. I've given you the photo of Hanna Reitsch visiting President Kennedy. Could anyone in their right mind imagine her visiting the President of the United States after reading this article. Obviously President Kennedy's feelings (and probably American societies feelings at that time) were the polar opposite of the authors of this article. I don't know if she was the best pilot of the century, but she must have been among the best in the world to be invited by the American administration to visit President Kennedy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pgg804 (talk • contribs) 06:28, 26 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're absolutely right, Germany and Germans were the victims in WWII of Allied aggression. German history is a stellar example of a peaceful, kind, enlightened nation and people abused by nefarious neighbors and American neo-imperialism. If only the Germans had won the war, what a wonderful place the world would be today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.130.104 (talk) 10:42, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What does this mean?[edit]

Then she uttered the words that for so long kept her out of the history books: “Many Germans feel guilty about the war. But they don’t explain the real guilt we share – that we lost.”

I'll delete the quote's introduction if I get no response. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.167.211.119 (talk) 22:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

The big problem with this is that it's not clear whether the "then she uttered the words" part is quoted from an interview with Ron Laytner, or whether it was written by a Wikipedia editor. If it is part of Laytner's interview, it should be in italics, or formatted in some way that makes it obviously part of a quote. If it's original content, it should be deleted, because it's an editorial opinion (and wrong - she quite clearly hasn't been kept out of the history books). -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 13:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That unsourced quote had been removed long ago and was briefly restored with this IP edit (see also the clean up section below). It's gone again. Gwen Gale (talk) 14:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Its part of the Laytner interview, a copy of which I found on the internet here: http://issuu.com/edit_international/docs/publication_hanna_reitsch. Reitsch remained a fervent Nazi, proud of all that they did including the Holocost, the wars of aggression, and planned extermination of the Slavic people, right up until the very end and it is regretible that Wikipedia has chosen to whitewash over this in their account of her. Yanqui9 (talk) 22:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reitsch was indeed very loyal to AH but that website is not a reliable source. Gwen Gale (talk) 23:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ron Laytner[edit]

The source for the quote added to the article ( see Revision as of 03:14, 11 September 2006 User:67.35.127.57 is probably this article Hanna Reitsch: A German WWII test pilot who has been called "The Century’s Greatest Pilot", on the website of Greyfalcon.us ( Grey Falcon ) unless the box on that page is itself a copy of this page. If this is a copy of that page then the lead in sentence is a copyright violation. But is the site a reliable source? --Philip Baird Shearer 16:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The website source appears to be a Nazi-myth packager so I don't think they do much fact-checking as such. Truth be told, it appears to me that the article cited in the section below was cribbed from this one (they share lots of the same pictures, for starters). Reitsch was a highly skilled and talented pilot but I'm not aware of any aviation sources having characterized her as "the century's greatest..." For that matter, I'd be skeptical of that assertion for any pilot. Please see below, too. Gwen Gale 06:22, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Given the unreliability of this source I've rm'd it from the article, along with both the quote it supported and two other unsupported assertions about her personal post-war beliefs. Gwen Gale 23:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The greyfalcon reference is indeed dubious, but the relevant quotes come from Laytner's own report. This report is properly referenced in the article and it appears to be quite valid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.143.150 (talk) 13:24, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First astronaut[edit]

I came across this interesting article [1] Further investigation is needed, but it could easily expand this biography —Preceding unsigned comment added by Admartch (talk • contribs) 05:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The V-1 cruised at no more than a thousand metres and I've never read anything to indicate it could fly (or that she flew in one, the Fi 103r, high enough) to even come close to qualifying that semi-robotic bomb as a spacecraft. None of the other aircraft she flew would qualify either. Also, the source doesn't assert anything about altitude or other details to support the claim in any meaningful way. Moreover, the source is riddled with errors of fact (I don't even think Reitsch is always accurately quoted in the article) and the publisher is a small (father and son) free lance syndication (articles for sale) website which appears to specialize in what amounts to "Nazi exploitation" stuff... gaudy pictures of alleged Hitler trinkets looted in 1945... a sloppy tabloid style article on Lebensborn and so on. So IMHO no way this source meets WP:RS, never mind WP:WEIGHT. Gwen Gale 06:06, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup[edit]

Thoroughly done, still needs citations. Gwen Gale 22:36, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not so thoroughly, in my opinion.S711 18:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In English, "cleanup" in no way means "complete" or "thoroughly cited." Cheers! Gwen Gale 18:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Either way, if you have concerns about the content of the article, please post the specifics here, thanks. Gwen Gale 18:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Section V1 lacks most of the significant facts. I don't have the relevant sources at my disposal, otherwise I would have written it.S711 19:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment implies her test flight of the piloted version and determination of the very high stall speed are insignificant. Is this true? What significant facts are lacking? Gwen Gale 00:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have to side with S711. As it stands, this article is an unreferenced, user-hostile block of text, with a broken picture, that ends with the typical load of one-sentence paragraphs. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 13:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite, a few days ago the article was vastly altered and seeded with unsourced text, along with the section titles being removed. Fixing. Gwen Gale (talk) 14:07, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Gwen Gale (talk) 14:11, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not getting into a dispute about what "cleanup" means, but several sections are nearly incomprehensible (particularly the "death" section). I would fix it if I could figure out what it is attempting to describe. I think it's about a suspected or unreported suicide, but the rest of is beyond my ability to decode. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.24.187 (talk) 23:59, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

About the suicide speculation then "Reitsch had managed to retain her cyanide pill." is strange, no CYANIDE pill remains effective over so long time. Good for museum only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.65.197.107 (talk) 21:47, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Riedel[edit]

If Hanna Reitsch learned of the attrocities from Riedel, what did she think of them? What was her reaction? Did she do or say anything (one way or the other)? Richard David Ramsey 15:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Another portrayal in film[edit]

She is also portrayed in the 1965 film Operation Crossbow. Sorry, don't have time to add it myself. PapayaSF (talk) 04:51, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is already in the article (V-1 section). Gwen Gale (talk) 04:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, you are correct. So if it's not going to be in the "Portrayal in the Media" section, perhaps that should be changed to "Other Portrayals in the Media"? My sense is that the section should just list all media portrayals, whether discussed above or not, but I don't know the guidelines here well enough to decide. PapayaSF (talk) 21:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, not sure where I should add this but the following statement is false: "The film Operation Crossbow began a popular myth that early guidance and stabilisation problems with the V-1 flying bomb were solved during a daring test flight by Reitsch" On July 28th 1944 a German press release reported this story (along with a few other lies). Still trying to find a link but here it is in Dutch: http://kranten.kb.nl/view/paper/id/ddd%3A010330908%3Ampeg21%3Ap001%3Aa0001 

Rbakker99 (talk) 04:44, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Her father killed her mother and sisters[edit]

The article tells that Hanna Reitsch's father killed her mother and sisters.How terrible was the Third Reich for the germans!Agre22 (talk) 03:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)agre22[reply]

You just wanted to get that off your chest?--Propaganda328 (talk) 22:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No caption on main image[edit]

Does anybody else think it's odd how the lead carefully makes absolutely no mention of Nazism, all while the reader is staring at a photo of a grinning Hanna throwing a Nazi salute? And with NO caption at all to explain context on the main image of an article? I understand if you want to compartmentalize the Nazi aspect relative to the aviation pioneer aspect, but if that's the best and most iconic picture we have of her, shouldn't the caption reflect what it actually is, rather than just being blank? It think it should say something akin to "Reitsch saluting a crowd of well-wishers during a visit to her hometown. To her left is Karl Hanke, Gauleiter of Lower Silesia." Bravo Foxtrot (talk) 00:07, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There was a formatting botch in the image code, which is why no caption at all was showing up. I've fixed that and lengthened the caption. I've also put another line into the lead, which lets readers know straight off about her historical link to the national socialists. Gwen Gale (talk) 10:24, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nazism in lead section[edit]

The main complaint by Bravo Foxtrot is that the lead is missing mention of Nazism. Luckily the image makes that clear.פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 09:26, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fight out of Berlin[edit]

Greim and Hanna Reitsch flew out that night in an old Arado trainer a Luftwaffe pilot managed to somehow to land and get off the ground again.

— Ziemke, Earl F. (1969), Battle for Berlin End of the Third Reich Ballantine's Illustrated History of World War II (Battle Book #6), Ballantine Books, p. 118

-- PBS (talk) 15:04, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Iron Cross inconsistency[edit]

In the first line of the article, it states she's the only woman to have won the Iron Cross, but later it states she's one of two. The Iron Cross article also says she's one of two, but doesn't name the other. Which is correct? Mokele (talk) 13:20, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The other was Riefenstahl, whom Reitsch detested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.48.186 (talk) 01:17, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fa 61?[edit]

"During the mid-1950s Reitsch was interviewed on film and talked about her wartime flight tests of the Fa 61, Me 262, and Me 163. In 1959, she was invited to India by prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru to begin a gliding centre. In 1961, Reitsch was invited to the White House by US President John F. Kennedy. From 1962 to 1966, she lived in Ghana, where she founded the first black African national gliding school.[12][13] She gained the Diamond Badge in 1970.[2]"

What is the FA 61? 80.195.104.67 (talk) 15:21, 6 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Focke-Wulf Fw 61 - also known as Fa 61, though the former is probably historically correct. I'll change the article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:38, 6 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

this was not the right psychological moment." He gave his approval Operation Suicide[edit]

In the 3rd reich section Hitler dismissed and approved operation suicide? the quote is in conflict with the decision, can anyone shed light on how that transpired? Darkstar1st (talk) 11:13, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I too found it odd and contradictory. Perhaps the words 'At first' are missing, to explain Hitler's change of mind. 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:252E:A5A9:A4C7:78BE (talk) 08:32, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Records[edit]

I found a list of five at FAI including some rotorcraft records.

https://www.fai.org/records?record=Hanna+Reitsch

The previous link from the same org, now dead, was supposed to support 40 records.

More information here would help.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 17:47, 30 January 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Cyanide capsule?[edit]

The article says it was suggested she, almost 35 years after ww2, committed suicide with a capsule Hitler gave her. But cyanide is a compound that I believe degrades over time and can become harmless -- seems like that 35 years might significantly affect its potency, probably much less time. Perhaps if properly sealed it would remain potent but few things are worse than a botched suicide and a glider pilot one might think could find much surer ways by crashing, much less painful. 50.230.251.244 (talk) 22:44, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The speculation is just speculation, but is properly referenced. If you want to caveat that speculation by raising the potency issue in the text, you need to do so with a proper citation about the likelihood or otherwise of the cyanide remaining active. Whether this further speculation would serve any useful purpose regarding Reitsch is perhaps another matter. Sbishop (talk) 08:08, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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