Talk:Ivory Coast

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Debate over the name change and protocol[edit]

It's curious to me that (according to the summary above) Wikipedia users debated dropping "Côte d'Ivoire" in favor of "Ivory Coast" fíve times and never did, before having yet another debate and finally agreeing on the sixth time. What made that sixth argument more compelling than the previous five? Shouldn't there be some sort of precedent established by the first few debates? Otherwise issues like this will never die. (talk) 16:13, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

It was the biggest fuckup and insult to a sovereign nation on the project to this date, actually. Piss-poor reading of sources, use of unacceptable sources all to support a decision that had zero basis in reality. It was unacceptable to say the least the panda ɛˢˡ” 16:46, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Maybe because Ivory Coast doesn't have the right to make this demand? --Khajidha (talk) 18:55, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
The argument that it is somehow disrespectful for an English speaker to speak English is nonsense. I can't help noticing that it is fairly patronising, too. Apparently the Germans are not to be offended by "Germany", or the Italians by "Florence" but those Africans, they might well take offence...... Avalon (talk) 08:49, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Of course. It is offensive, colonial, imperalist and racist to call the country by its colonial name instead of its indigenous name. Oh, wait ... --Florian Blaschke (talk) 05:21, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Not really, there's a similar debate at Lyon/Lyons and Marseille/Marseilles (the debate there made considerably easier by the phonetic pointlessless of the different spelling). There were also a couple of sad old buggers trying to argue for the resurrection of Leghorn in place of the now-standard Livorno. Jemimallah (talk) 09:20, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
If Côte d'Ivoire is officially used internationally then why the move? There are plently foreign cities that we do not translate to English. This is a step-back IMO. The above archieved argument does make some sense. Savvyjack23 (talk) 11:11, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Not to mention that we don't call Puerto Rico "Rich Port", Costa Rica "Rich Coast", or El Salvador "The Savior". The name of the country is Côte d'Ivoire. (talk) 16:44, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
And the name of the state in which I live is "North Carolina", not "Caroline du Nord" but you don't see me telling French speakers that they can't call it that. --Khajidha (talk) 23:22, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
The State of North Carolina has not explicitly requested that it be referred to as "North Carolina" in all languages as Côte d'Ivoire has. It is also officially registered in the United Nations as Côte d'Ivoire. (talk) 19:33, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
And you don't find that insistence on controlling the speech of people who use other languages highly insulting? What other English words do I have to run by their government before I can use them? --Khajidha (talk) 22:40, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
I think it's a bit pretentious and silly, particularly as Côte d'Ivoire just means "Ivory Coast", but I think I might lean toward using the official name. They do have some right over what people call them. If we simply use common name we should revive the debate on Aluminium as Aluminum is the more common name in English and even if it's not it's at Aluminium because of official preference not usage.--T. Anthony (talk) 03:43, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
We do "simply use common name" for article titles. See WP:COMMONNAME. As far as Aluminium is concerned, you should take that issue to that article's talk page. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:03, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
For awhile I did, but then I got tired of it. It's a lot "England essentially owns the English language" and "Aluminium is the preferred IUPAC name."--T. Anthony (talk) 15:55, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
"They do have some right over what people call them." Says who? It's not their language, it's not their business. --Khajidha (talk) 15:43, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
Nobody owns the English language, not even the people who speak it, as there is no centralised authority on it, comparable to what German or French or Spanish languages have. Moreover, it certainly isn't owned by people who don't even speak it, as is the case here. Whether a toponym gets translated or treated as a proper name in its original form in other languages is purely those languages' business and varies on a case by case basis. If Ivorians don't like what a compound name such as "Cote d'Ivoire" actually means, then they should have changed the name altogether. But I guess they are fond enough of the colonial placename to keep it, but not fond enough to let others translate it into their own languages. Well it simply does not work that way. InflatableSupertrooper (talk) 09:56, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Official Republic of Côte d'Ivoire means that the name must be Côte d'Ivoire. Please rename the article!!! Altaveron (talk) 13:34, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Says who? And who gives them that authority? --Khajidha (talk) 14:07, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
They do. And I think international bodies have agreed. It is their nation. I think they're being silly but why can't they ask their nation be called by whatever language they want it to be called in?--T. Anthony (talk) 18:56, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
They can name their country whatever they like in their own language. Whether that name is accepted as is, simply translated or entirely replaced when speakers of another language are referring to them is beyond their purview. --Khajidha (talk) 20:48, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
They can ask to be called whatever they want and it will be respected diplomatically, and it is. But demanding that English-speakers refer to your country in French, when that region has been known by the English version of the same name for centuries is ridiculous. No one's going to honor that. If the United States suddenly announced that its name could only be rendered in English, do you think the 400 million Spanish-speakers of the world would stop calling it "Estados Unidos" just because we demanded that they do? Of course not, and it would be stupid to try. "Ivory Coast" is nothing "Côte d'Ivoire" rendered in English. What's next, do we need to call Russia "Росси́я"? Jsc1973 (talk) 05:53, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Jsc1973 's example of Russia in Russian("Росси́я") does not seem to be a valid point, because Russian is written in Cyrillic script, which it is safe to say most English speakers are not likely to read Cyrillic script, whereas "Cote d'Ivoire" is written in the same Latin/Roman script that English uses. And besides the nation's government had officially requested the world community to call them by that name, then we should respect their wishes. It's like a Spanish speaker's name is "Juan" and asks you to call him that, but you insist on translating it into English and call him "John"! Get the point? Mistakefinder (talk) 04:25, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
I completely agree with Jsc1973. This seems much like the Burma or Myanmar debate. MB298 (talk) 03:01, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
@Mistakefinder: In many languages monarchs' names are nearly always translated per tradition. So what you are describing is exactly why we use Pope John Paul II (as opposed to Ioannes Paulus II or Karol) or Pope Francis (as opposed to Franciscus, Francesco or Jorge Mario). So if Francis wakes up one day and decides to order English-speaking people to start referring to him as "Francesco" - should or would they comply? I don't think so. Because such a request would go against established conventions that formed over centuries. This is exactly what Ivorian government is trying to do. If your name is a compound phrase, you can't forbid others to translate it literally; and you can't force others into pretending it is really just a proper noun like "John". It is not. This is not like Costa Brava or Côte d'Azur, the translations of which ("Wild Coast" and "Blue Coast" respectively) are pretty meaningless to an English speaker. The phrase "Ivory Coast" is not. InflatableSupertrooper (talk) 21:46, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
Even if we admit the principle that a person's name should not be translated (which principle I don't actually agree with, I would PREFER that a French speaker call me Guillaume or a German speaker call me Wilhelm if that made it easier for them) a country is not a person. --Khajidha (talk) 01:51, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Missing Capitals[edit]

Bingerville and Abidjan are not mentioned on this page as former capitals. There's also some serious mismatches between Grand-Bassam, Bingerville, and Abidjan on Bingerville's dates as capital -- did it start in 1896, 1900, or 1909?! And did it end in 1933 or 1934?! - Hydronium Hydroxide (talk) 14:58, 17 August 2015 (UTC)