Talk:John D. Rockefeller

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Good article John D. Rockefeller has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
April 21, 2011 Good article nominee Listed

awards[edit]

+++I'm interested to know of any awards John D. Rockefeller Sr. received, either during his life or posthumously. Please include on this page if you know of any. If you can provide a link to further related content. Thanks.

His wealth[edit]

Why does this article, among others, compare net worth to GDP in a year? Net worth is a stock concept, and GDP is a flow concept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shovangupta (talkcontribs) 13:00, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

$1.4 billion in 1937 is equivalent to about $23 billion today. Not any of the other, much higher figures cited in this article. $900 million in 1913 is equivalent to about $21.5 billion today.

In the article, we have lines like "Adjusting for inflation, his fortune upon his death in 1937 stood at $336 billion". That is not true. Not even close. The article goes on to say "accounting for more than 1.5% of the national economy,". Now, if you take 1.5% of the US economy today you get about $255 billion, but this number is utterly meaningless. The US has far more people in it today than it did back then, for example. If Bill Gates moved to New Zealand he'd be worth a big chunk of their economy -- but wouldn't be any richer.

So, let's stop this utter nonsense that Rockefeller was worth hundreds of billions, based on this concept of calculating his wealth as a percentage of the national economy at the time and then scaling it up to today. Inflation is the only real indicator. The claims that he was worth hundreds of billions must be deleted permanently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.159.167 (talk) 17:40, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure where or how you deduced that, but Business Insider gives $336 billion (obviously adjusted for inflation) while Forbes says his net worth was $305.3 billion in 2006 dollars. Both are highly respected publications for business and financial reports. I suppose the question is whether one is more credible than the other. Snuggums (talk / edits) 20:01, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
You're not sure how I deduced it? Did you read what I wrote? I explained quite clearly how I deduced it. $1.4 billion in 1937 is $23 billion today, adjusted for inflation. I explained how the (wrong) figures of hundreds of billions were arrived at. It is a clear case of (not particularly credible) online news sources being wrong. The article should be changed. 110.175.159.167 (talk) 09:18, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

The above comment is a good example of a know-it-all who knows nothing. There are multiple ways to try to convert the value of money in one period for another; a simple inflation adjustment is not the only and probably not the best. Bill Gates is small potatoes from a historical perspective. There have been many far richer people in history. How much was a Roman Emperor worth? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:6044:A600:C55C:8060:5B3D:B516 (talk) 06:43, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

I was referring to the figure you gave. It's not like inflation methods are common knowledge or anything. Snuggums (talk / edits) 13:10, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
So are we going to remove the lies posted on the page about his wealth? 110.175.159.167 (talk) 13:07, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
First, I'm not sure where the $1.4 billion number comes from. Second, two of the cited sources give his wealth in modern terms as $192 billion and $323 billion, so perhaps we should be giving a range of estimated numbers. Third, it is not at all clear that the high numbers are derived from applying Rockefeller's percentage of the US economy to the current US economy; the percentage seems to be an aside, and not the method upon which the calculation was based. We should be hesitant to disregard the numbers given by usually reliable sources. Plazak (talk) 13:40, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
The $1.4 billion number comes from what his wealth was in 1937, according to this article. It is quite simple to adjust this for inflation, to see what it would be worth today -- Google "inflation calculator". It is obvious how these publications, if you could call them that, got the staggering figures of his wealth -- they simply took 1.5% of the economy today, and put that as the number. Forbes is not a reliable source, anybody can contribute and it has no central editorial board. Similarly with Business Insider. We MUST remove these erroneous claims about his wealth. Let me quote from the article: Adjusting for inflation, his fortune upon his death in 1937 stood at $336 billion. This is quite clearly WRONG. His wealth in 1937 was $1.4 billion, and that is NOT $336 billion adjusted for inflation. At the very least, we must remove this lie. 110.175.159.167 (talk) 17:56, 17 March 2016 (UTC)


let me add this: here's a forbes source saying his wealth would be $30 billion adjusted for inflation, NOT $100B +: http://www.forbes.com/profile/rockefeller/. heres another forbes article saying that TO CONTROL A SIMILAR SHARE OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMY his net worth would have to be $300B + . this is not the same as adjusting for inflation. http://www.forbes.com/sites/carlodonnell/2014/07/11/the-rockefellers-the-legacy-of-historys-richest-man/#45befed860e7 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.159.167 (talk) 18:03, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I modified the page to include both definitions. I used the autoupdating template I found here. There seems to be some legitimate concerns with using CPI to adjust for inflation for wealthy individuals. The discussion on the talk page of the template made me think that it was okay for now since according to one user the correlation is .99 (hopefully they add a template to adjust for capital inflation in the future). I hope I didn't go over anyone's head here but I wanted the page to be clear on the different ways to think of his wealth. Emschorsch (talk) 02:12, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for at least doing *something*. That's a really good start. I think it's still going to have to be improved though. Putting the two definitions next to each other without explanation is a bit jarring. Do we have any reason at all to believe that the $200 billion + estimates are anything but misguided bullshit based on the percent of GDP figure? I don't think we do.

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on John D. Rockefeller. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:14, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Etymology of Name Wrong[edit]

"Rockefeller" derives from "Rockenfeld", which was first mentioned in the late 13th c. as "Rukenvelt", referring not to a skirt or dress (Rock) but to a ridge (Rücken). Thus "distaff field" is either folk etymology or someone's sad idea of a joke, and needs to be changed. (See the German-language pages for verification) 98.118.17.72 (talk) 18:00, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Corrected as requested. There is no source currently, so any restore should require a source. — kashmiri TALK 16:50, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on John D. Rockefeller. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:59, 27 November 2017 (UTC)