Talk:Kim Hughes

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Former good article nominee Kim Hughes was a Sports and recreation good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
January 3, 2011 Good article nominee Not listed



links for future use[edit]

chappelli[edit]

pointed out his allegiance. In Captain Australia (yes, yes) there are quite a lot of examples extremely pungent and acidic borderline personal attacks by IC against KJH. YellowMonkey (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 03:49, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

In Ten Turbulent Years (basically a PBL/WSC love-in) IC in his own article calls Hughes (and Yallop) "the worst leaders since Burke and Wills! Thanks for the help, BTW. It has been a slow process as I have been busy in RL. -- Mattinbgn\talk 04:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Photo[edit]

Outstanding work Matt. I was thinking about trying to track him down to ask for a photo. Waddya reckon? He can only tell me to piss off. I saw him at the WACA last summer but I didn't have my camera with me. Grrr. Djanga 04:53, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

If you could that would be great. As you say, the worst he can say is no. The period between 1955 (and this may be pushed back to pre-WW2) and the mid nineties is the "black hole" of photos. Our other option is to do what Phanto did for Ian Chappell; see if the national archives will release an image under a free licence like this one. Or, even better, we could do both. In Ryan's book there are some beautiful photographs of Hughes in the Centenary Test (one where he is 3 yards down the pitch and outside leg, and on one knee driving through the covers!) by Patrick Eagar (no article!) that would sit nicely here, but I think there is zero chance of getting them released on a free licence. -- Mattinbgn\talk 05:12, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

From the horses mouth[edit]

[1] - primary sources not allowed per WP policies. Djanga 08:05, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Great find and very interesting! We can't use it as a source per se, but could we list it as an external link? -- Mattinbgn\talk 08:41, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Post-cricket[edit]

Hughes now works with former Australian rules footballer and coach Ken Judge as a motivational and leadership development speaker. The pair are called "The Captain & The Coach". (unsourced) Djanga 08:35, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

To do[edit]

  • Brief section on Lillee-Marsh "feud". Difficult to integrate into the article without disturbing the flow so separate section best
  • Style section needs content on others' opinion of his style and (batting) temperament
  • Expand lead
  • Copyedit.

-- Mattinbgn\talk 23:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Kim Hughes/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk) 21:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Generally, this is a nice article. It is well written and fairly comprehensive. Looks like a candidate for a future FAC. For the moment, a few issues, mainly because it's such a long article. Nothing too hard, I don't think.

Lead:

  • Second para of lead: "Hughes was seen to possess" and "Hughes was identified": it's usually better to say who thought so, which would usually be journalists, critics, etc.
  • The lead states he was considered to have Test potential from an early age, but the article does not really say this. The article does not suggest that the delays in his career were caused by his personlity clashes.
  • "to stay with the establishment": Presumably the ACB (or whatever they were called back then)? Or link establishment?
  • "Hughes' captaincy record with Australia was hindered..." Not sure a record can be hindered, but I know what you mean. Tarnished? Blemished? Checked?

Early life:

  • Overlinking? One teacher school, headmaster.
  • Most likely - links removed.
  • One very minor unclear point: Hughes' father presumably got several jobs which necessitated the frequent movement, rather than having a "mobile" job.
  • He would have been employed by the Department of Education in WA throughout his working life as a teacher and as such his place of employment would have subject to their requirements, albeit with some consideration of his family circumstances. As rural areas always struggle to find teachers volunteering to work in those areas, compulsion would sometimes have been required. Think of it more like a soldier having to accept postings to various units, rather than a move from employer to employer. I am happy to tweak if needed but more detail seems a little WP:UNDUE. I am also happy to accept any advice.
  • I think a sentence would help: as it is, he is living in one place "The Hughes family lived in nearby Kudardup, where Stan was in charge of the one-teacher school", and then his job is taking him all over. It just seems a little... disjointed? Maybe a phrase like "... but his job required frequent relocation around the area." --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:13, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "His boyhood hero was Austin Robertson, Jr. who played for Subiaco Football Club; the club that Hughes' father had played for as a young man." Should this be a comma rather than semi-colon?
  • I have a tendency to overuse semi-colons, changed.
  • And another minor point, "to compete in the junior 'Country Week' tournament in the state capital of Perth": should this be "Country Week", per MOS? (I'm not too hot on MOS!)
  • I suspect you are correct, changed.
  • "He was selected again in the Geraldton Country Week team again the following year, where his performances playing against much older boys again to receive some attention from cricket administration." Three agains, and the sentence does not quite make sense.
  • Split the sentence and reworded. Much better now (I hope)
  • "Hughes made his first first grade century against Midland-Guildford and finished the season topping the club batting averages" Could this be reworded to avoid "first first"?
  • done

Club cricket and first-class debut:

  • Is it worth mentioning any performances in his debut season apart from his two centuries, as an average of 33 suggests it was peaks and troughs!
  • Two ducks and a one, otherwise just a series of moderate scores. Nothing that would seem unusual IMO from a first year player.
  • Quite a few redlinks in this section; are they all notable enough to have an article?
  • Watsonians perhaps not, but the Australian clubs all meet WP:CRIN as first grade clubs

Test debut:

  • Overlinking: restraint of trade
  • You think so? This is a specific and defined legal term even if it is being used flippantly by the source.
  • Not too bothered. If you prefer it in, I've no problem. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:13, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

World Series Cricket years:

  • "Hughes suffered from appendicitis": do you suffer from appendicitis or just suffer it?
  • "Hughes' only century came in the first Test at Brisbane." Seems a little odd to put this first and then describe his maiden century: I would think that the fact of his achieving his first 100 is more important than it being his only one of the series.
  • "Hughes continued on and was the last Australian wicket to fall, top-scoring with 129; his maiden Test century." Another semi-colon where it should be a comma; also, not sure "continued on" is necessary.

A young captain:

  • Was any comment made about Hughes assuming the captaincy with so little experience?
  • Any media comments on the dubious dismissals in the second Test?
  • "after Sarfraz Nawaz took an incredible seven wickets for only one run in the Australian second innings" Incredible suggests POV.
  • "Hughes had started his Australian captaincy with a win." Not a big deal, but seems a little stuck on the end.
  • " lived up to those low expectations by not making the semi-finals" Not sure you can live up to low expectations.

Reunification:

  • Averages for 79-80? Other series averages are included.
  • " It was this innings, however, that was seen as his most brilliant of the match." Nitpicking, it should be "the more brilliant of his innings", unless it was the most brilliant of anyone.
  • "This Test saw Hughes...": Not a big deal for GA, but I know FAC can be sniffy about "saw".
  • "tradional": typo

On-again, off-again skipper:

  • "Hughes enforced the follow-on (forced to take its second batting innings immediately after its first)." The part in the brackets does not match the subject in the sentence, it should be "England was forced to...". It may be easier just to link follow on.
  • Not much on Hughes batting performance or captaincy performance in 81. It only mentions one innings.
  • I seem to remember that Hughes got a lot of grief on this tour from the senior players: is there anything that could go in here? (I'm fairly sure it's available, but if it's a problem, the article would still pass GA. FA would be more of a problem.)

Last days of the Chappell era:

  • "This time Hughes would lead a full strength Australian team..." Not sure this is necessary as it's very similar to the earlier comment after Chappell's resignation.

Downfall:

  • "The West Indies was commonly regarded at that times as the best team in the world": The article has already said this.

Rebel and retirement:

  • "lost them both 1 "Test"" Should be one Test, per MOSNUM.

Style and personality

  • Possibly a few too many quotes here; it seems a bit too many in a list. Also, reads too much like a character reference and I don't think his "niceness" needs emphasising so much.

General:

  • Not much on ODIs, and some Test series are a little patchy in terms of statistical coverage. There is not too much sense of how well he did in each series as a batsman; at the very least, series averages could be given for more series. There does not seem to be much about his f-c career in the Shield between his Tests. If, as I suspect, he didn't play much due to touring, maybe the article could say so.
  • Maybe more could be made of his personality clashes, esp with Marsh, Chappell, etc. This does not entirely come across. (These last two would not stop it passing GA if they cannot be done in a hurry)
  • Spot check of online refs was fine.
  • 2 Dablinks, Andy Roberts and Golden duck.
  • External links fine.
  • Images check out.

I'll place the article on hold for a week (longer if it helps) and feel free to argue with any of my points, but I don't see too many problems. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Comment from Aaron:

  • Why isn't the amount of Tests and ODIs - and even first-class and List A matches metioned in the lead. Only the amount of Tests he captained is mentioned. Aaroncrick TALK 23:10, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm know there's other reasons for him being nicknamed Claggy? Thommo said about him being soft. Aaroncrick TALK

After discussion with nominator, I am failing this article for now, but I am happy to review it again once he has time to work on it. --Sarastro1 (talk) 23:02, 3 January 2011 (UTC)