Talk:List of The Great British Bake Off finalists (series 8–present)

Redirect Giuseppe Dell'Anno?

Moved from Talk:List of The Great British Bake Off finalists (series 1–7) § Redirect Giuseppe Dell'Anno?

The draft of the article "Giuseppe Dell'Anno" was recently approved by GRuban. Before approval, I questioned the state of the article, which may have some sourcing issues, and the subject's notability (Talk:Giuseppe Dell'Anno#More likely fails WP:notability), yet GRuban disagreed with me, citing continued coverage and... list goes on in that (other) discussion.

I appreciate the efforts done by the article creator, who is also the article subject himself, and GRuban's review and analyses. However, the article as-is is... I don't know how else to describe its so-so or poor quality. But the subject used his own academic publications to verify his education. I tried to find secondary sources verifying such info without avail. Furthermore, valuable info is already in List of The Great British Bake Off finalists#Giuseppe Dell'Anno (winner).

With the article's current state, I don't feel like awaiting continued coverage to improve the article. Rather it should be redirected to this list. George Ho (talk) 22:01, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't understand - why don't you think The Times article verifies his education? [1] --GRuban (talk) 22:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I was referring to the other Times article (via Gale A683765620), written by another Bake Off contestant Henry Bird. The one you were referring to (Gale A723377487) verifies his 2002 emigration from Italy. Neither article AFAIK mentions his education (when using Gale database), and I couldn't thoroughly find "university", "college", "school" or other related terms. I wonder whether and how you can fully access The Times articles. George Ho (talk) 23:05, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

The straight forward way, having a subscription. It straight out says he studied chemical engineering in university in Pisa. George, and I say this with the greatest respect, as a fellow George, if you can't read the best sources that are right in the article, your words "I tried to find secondary sources verifying such info without avail" are not nearly as valuable as they otherwise would be. --GRuban (talk) 23:33, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I added the Pisa one in the list's section. George Ho (talk) 23:44, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! In fact, I can see that much of your text from the list section needs to be added to the article. My compliments, it's well written. Can always trust a George! That said, I do think the article has sufficient content to be better stand-alone than solely as part of this list. I'm reading on a rather large monitor, and this list is already 11 screens long for me, it's 110KB in length. That's not all readable prose, but still; there are Wikipedia:Featured articles that are shorter. I think Giuseppe Dell'Anno has sufficient notability as a standalone article. We need both - we need the list, for someone who just wants to skim all the winners, and we need the article, for someone who wants more depth on a notable person. --GRuban (talk) 23:59, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I almost wanted to request closure, but I figured that the request would likely be rejected due to insufficient discussion. I want to be bold and redirect the article right away, but first I would like to know whether you would object this direction. George Ho (talk) 20:29, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I would object to turning this article into a redirect to your list. --GRuban (talk) 21:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

It's not my list, but... whatever. George Ho (talk) 21:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Considering you both created it and made more edits to it than everyone else put together, I think that is an apt description, actually. --GRuban (talk) 21:55, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose redirect. The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:43, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

  Why? George Ho (talk) 07:46, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

  • Because I'm satisfied, on the basis of GRuban's work, that it satisfies WP:GNG. I'm half-tempted to push to have your list deleted entirely, because the minor people don't need articles in any form and your obsessive attempts to redirect literally everyone who's ever been on the show here regardless of notability are becoming endlessly disruptive. The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

    Go ahead. Nominate this list if you're willing. Bring it on! George Ho (talk) 07:59, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Redirect Kim-Joy?

Moved from Talk:List of The Great British Bake Off finalists (series 1–7) § Redirect Kim-Joy?

I'm concerned about the article quality of Kim-Joy and the article's ability to grow further. Furthermore, the person's notability may be marginal and/but not enough to guarantee a stand-alone article. Also, the article is tagged with "COI" and has sourcing issues. I propose merging/redirecting the page to this list. --George Ho (talk) 00:30, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

• Update: I went bold and then redirected the Kim-Joy page to the list. If you object, then please don't hesitate to revert the redirection I made. --George Ho (talk) 01:43, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Now someone created a new version as "Kim-Joy Hewlett", but then I cut-and-pasted the content into Kim-Joy. I still wonder why Kim-Joy is perceived to have met WP:Notability. George Ho (talk) 19:26, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

@George Ho, she's notable because there have been multiple instances of significant coverage in independent reliable sources about her. What exactly makes you think that despite those instances of significant coverage in independent reliable sources, she still might not be notable? Valereee (talk) 19:48, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Well... I now remember that her notability is "marginal". We'll agree to disagree about worthiness of the article, but I'll not try to be bold and revert back as I've done to the other article. Instead, I'll contribute to the article as much as I can. I appreciate your inclusion of critics' opinions on Kim-Joy, but.... I don't know. I wouldn't include critics' opinions about her bakes, but... I can't stop you or try to exclude them. George Ho (talk) 19:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

@George Ho, but really, I'd like to understand what you're trying to get at here: why would you think that a subject that has had multiple instances of significant coverage in reliable sources isn't notable? I really want to know the answer to that question, completely regardless of this article. Why would you think any article subject (other than wp:one event subjects) that has had multiple instances of significant coverage in reliable sources wouldn't be notable? We really need to get into this because to me it feels like you don't understand how we assess notability. Valereee (talk) 20:04, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, I was impressed with her life story... but then less impressed with how far she can further her baking career, especially outside Bake Off. Three cookbooks, one baking-related card game, working for one bakery... I guess independent reliable sources make those accomplishments sufficient for notability? But then I can say the same thing about other Bake Off contestants. George Ho (talk) 20:25, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

How does it matter whether she can further her baking career? Valereee (talk) 20:32, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Honestly... I don't know anymore. I now realized that I care more about either article size and/or the context about one person than notability, which to me isn't always a secure guarantee for a stand-alone article. George Ho (talk) 20:39, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

What makes you think notability isn't a secure guarantee for a standalone article? I literally can't think of any reason it wouldn't be other than that we couldn't find enough reliable information about the subject to write such an article. Which clearly is not the case here. George, this feels really strange. You have way too much experience to be arguing about this stuff. Valereee (talk) 20:45, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

You know, we should take this to the actual article. Valereee (talk) 20:46, 28 November 2022 (UTC)