Talk:Malayalam/Archive 2
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Malayalam and Classical status
Malayalam being an offshoot of Tamil and Sanskrit barely qualifies for classical status. It may be old but it is just an old daughter of extremely old parents, Tamil and Sanskrit. Poet ONV Kurup's argument that Malayalam words are found in Silappathikaram cannot make it classical because, there is nothing like pure Malayalam words... they are all either Tamil or Sanskrit, the only two languages of India which deserve the classical tag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.68.56 (talk) 16:19, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
The claims that the present Tulu-Grantha (Sanskrit) Malayalam of Namboothiris existed in the Chera Period
The British and German missionaries not only promoted the Sanskrit based Tulu-Grantha Bhasa but also Sanskritised it. Benjamin Bailey made the first Malayalam types in 1819. While Gundert was to start the first Malayalam daily called Rajya Samacharam. The British rule was not only against all the indigenous Dravidian people and their language system they tried to change the past history of Kerala itself. Many of the books identified as early Malayalam books are in indigenous Malayalam-Tamil and not related to the Namboothiri language. Ramacharitham (12th century) and Ravikutty Pilla Por written in the 17th century will qualify to be Tamil Classics too. The British and their Brahmin researchers from Madras liberally not only antedated the existence of Many Sanskrit works and called them Malayalam.
Tamil Classics branded as Early Malayalam in the British period
Rama Charitham
Mannil Vanthu Vennikkol ILankamanagril Vanthu Meru Mala Thalnthutho Enniya Avani Meethu Vannithorari Kamandalamuthithatho Nannu Moozhi Misai Vaanil Ninnu Nava Vennila Mathi ananthitho Ennellam Karuthumaru Vanthu Thingal Mannil Veezhntha Thirumeniai
This paragraph from Ramacharitham (1200-1400) is clearly in Tamil with very minor variaritons. If Ramacharitham is printed in Tamil it will be considered a Tamil classic. Ramacharitham hardly has any Sanskrit.
Ravikutty Pilla Por (17th Century)
Padai Pokathirunthal Parilullor Nahaiyaro ? Inthappadai Pokathirunthal Iravikulthhukku izhukkallavo ? Ezhu Kadalppurathirumbaraikullirunthalum Ema Raja Thoothar Vanthalillai ental Viduvaro ? Kallale Kottai Ketti Kallaraikullil irunthalum Kalanudaiyalu Vanthal Nalaiental Viduvaro ? Nama Raja Thoothar Vanthal Nalai Ental Viduvaro ? Vilaintha Vayalaruppathukku Vichanapada Vendam Kel
Ravikutty Pilla Por is about the Ravi Kutti Pilla who fought and died the Nayak armies in the 16th century.
All the examples above qualify to be mostly in Dravidian language and can be classified as Tamil or Malayalam-Tamil. Such literary tradition disappeared from Kerala because of the British.
The Sanskrit Works branded as Malayalam The heavily Sanskritised works written in in Tulu Grantha Bhasa written by Namboothiris bear no resemblance to the above Malayalam-Tamil. The Sanskrit works are mostly written by either Namboothiris.
Adyathma Ramayanam by Ezhuthachan in the mid 17th century ( the first book written using Grantha Script(Tulu-Malayalam Script)) Sakala Sukhakulavimalathilakithakalembare, Sarasyoopiyooshassara Sarvasvesvame, Kathaye Mama Kathaye Kathahalilathi Satharam Kakulstha Leelakal Kettal Mathi Vara Bhogangalellam Kshana Prapanchalam Vegene Nashtamamayussu morku nee Vahni Santhaptha Loha Sthambu Bindhuna Sannibam Marthru Janmam Kshana Banguram Chakshuha Srevana Galasthamam Dharduram Bakshanathinabeshikkunathu Pole Kalahina Parigrashtamam Lohavu Mamola Chethassa Bhogangal Thedunnu
Mostly it is a Sanskrit work with hardly any Dravidian words.
Nairs and Namboothris and Samanthas claim that Malayalam existed even in the Sangham Era - Tamil Sangams. But Sangam literature contain only Tamil hardly display any Sanskrit. The famous claim is that Vazhapally Sasanam given by a Tamil Chera king in the 9th century AD is Malayalam since it contains few lines Sanskrit written in Grantha Script. The Villavar kings of Chera Dynasty were ethnic Tamils and Tamil was the official language of Chera Kingdom. Most of the Malayalees who never had Matriarchy may descend from the ancient Tamils of Chera kingdom too. The Chera kings were well versed in Sanskrit too. Sanskrit was used as a decoration but not an integral part of the Tamil language during the Chera period. Chera Inscriptions and documents start with Swasthisree. Kulasekahra Varman the founder of the second Chera Kingdom who wrote Perumal Thirumozhi in Tamil also wrote Mukundamala in Sanskrit. The Jains and Buddhists of Kerala also used Sanskrit but they never mixed with Tamil.
Most of the heavily Sanskritised works claimed to be early Malayalam are written by Namboothiris themselves who were present in Kerala from the 8th Century onwards.
Bhaskara Kaudiliyam based on Kautilyas Artha Sasthra in the 12th century. Krishana Gatha (14th Century) Bhagavatham (15th Century) are some works by Namboothiris.
Dravidian inhabitants of Kerala hardly used any Sanskrit until the advent of British rule.
Thus there are two language groups existed in Kerala in the 17th century
1)Tamil and Malayalam Tamil used by indigenous Dravidians of Kerala written with Tamil Script (Vatteluttu, Malyanma or Kolezhuthu).
2)Sanskritised language used by the Namboothiris and Nairs written using Tulu Script. This Grantha Bhasa or Grantha Malayalam had been a minority language spoken by peo Naga and Aryan people from Ahichatra.
British promoted the Naga & Aryan language and banned the Dravidian tongue the Malayalam-Tamil in 1815. The Malabar English dictionary printed by Graham Shaw in 1779 at Quilon few years earlier was none other than Tamil English Dictionary.
Vilmeenkodi (talk) 21:14, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Malayalam-Tamil or Malayanma the Native Dravidian language of Kerala
Iravikuttipilla Por is one of the classical works in the Malayalam-Tamil or Malayanma in the 17th century. Iravikkutti Pilla was the brave General of the Travancore kingdom who fought against the invading forces of Vittalaraya of Vijayanagara kingdom in 1547 . This battle was witnessed by Francis Xavier. Iravikutty Pilla Por written in Malayanma can be considered a classical Tamil work too which contains very few Sanskrit words.
Tamil version (Font TSCKURAL) þÃÅ¢ÌðÊÀ¢ûÇ §À¡÷
À¨¼§À¡¸¡¾¢Õó¾¡ø À¡Ã¢Öû§Ç¡÷ ¿¨¸Â¡§Ã¡ þó¾ôÀ¨¼ §À¡¸¡¾¢Õó¾¡ø þÃÅ¢ìÌÄòÐ츢Øì¸øħš ²Ø¸¼ÄôÒÈò¾¢ÕõÀ¨ÈìÌûǢĢÕó¾¡Öõ ±Ááƒà¾÷ Åó¾¡Ä¢ø¨Ä¦ÂýÈ¡ø Å¢ÎÅ¡§Ã¡ ? ¸øÄ¡¦Ä §¸¡ð¨¼ ¦¸ðÊ ¸øĨÈìÌûǢĢÕó¾¡Öõ ¸¡ÄÛ¨¼Â¡Ù Åó¾¡ø ¸ñÊø¦ÄýÈ¡ø Å¢ÎÅ¡§Ã¡ ? ¿Ááƒà¾÷ Åó¾¡ø ¿¡¦Ç¦ÂýÈ¡ø Å¢ÎÅ¡§Ã¡ ? Å¢¨Çó¾ ÅÂÄÚôÀÐìÌ Å¢ºÉô¦À¼ §Åñ¼¡õ §¸û
Malayalam version (Font TTKarthika) Cchn¡p«n¸nÅt¸mcv
]ssSt]mImXncp´mev ]mcneptÅmcv \ssIbmtcm C´¸ssS t]mImXn¦ncp´mev Cchn¡pe¯p¡ngp¡Ãthm GgpISe¸pd¯nencp¼ssd¡pÅncp´mepw FacmPZqXcv h´menssÃsb\vdmev hnSphmtcm IÃmte tImss« sI«n IÃssd¡pÅncp´mepw Ime\pSbmfp h´mev InsÃ\vdmev hnSphmtcm \acmPZqXcv h´mev \mssfsb\vdmev hnSphmtcm hnssf´hbedp¸Xp¡p hnN\s¸Sthmw tIfv
Ramachritham written in the 14th century in Malayalam-Tamil Malayalam version (Font TTKarthika) a¶nev sh¶os¡mfoe¦am\Icoev h´q tacqae Xmgv´ptXm F¶otb Ah\naoXq h¶nsXmccn¡a¬eaqXn¯ntXm \¶papgnansN hm\nev\n¶q \hsh®nemaXnbW´ntXm Fs¶Ãmw IcqXpamdp h´pXn¦fv a¶nev hogv´ Xncpta\nbmbv
(cmaNcnXw 102 þ#m0 `mKw)
Tamil Version (Font TSCKURAL) Áñ½¢ø ¦ÅýÉ¢¦¸¡Ç¢Äí¸ Á¡¿¸Ã¢ø ÅóÐ §ÁÕ ÁÄ ¾¡ú󾧾¡ ±ýÉ¢§Â «ÅÉ¢ Á£Ð ÅýÉ¢§¾¡Ãâì¸Áñ¼ÄÓ¾¢ò¾¢§¾¡ ¿ýÛÓÆ¢Á¢¨º Å¡É¢ø ¿¢ýÛ ¿Å¦Åñ½¢Ä¡Á¾¢ ½󾢧¾¡ ±ý¦ÉøÄ¡õ ¸ÕÐÁ¡Ú ÅóÐ ¾¢í¸û Áñ½¢ø Å£úó¾ ¾¢Õ§Áɢ¡ö
(áÁ ºÃ¢¾õ 102õ À¡¸õ)
Vilmeenkodi (talk) 17:37, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Tulu-Grantha Bhasa was used by Ezhuthachan
Adyathma Ramayana written by Thunchathu Ezhuthachan in the 17th century is considered to be the first Malayalam literary work. Malayalam version(Font TTKarthika) kIe ipIIpehnaeXneInXItf_tc kmcky]obqjkmckcthtkzta IYb aa IYb aa IXIfXnkmZcw ImIpevØeoeIfv tI«mev aXn hcm «ò¡òÁ áÁ¡Â½õ Tamil (Font TSCKURAL) …¸Ä ͸ÌÄÅ¢Áľ¢Ä¸¢¾¸§ÇÀ§Ã º¡ÃŠÂÀ£ä‡…¡Ã…÷ŊŧÁ ¸¾Â ÁÁ ¸¾Â ¸¾¸Ç¾¢…¡¾Ãõ ¸¡ÌøŠ¾Ä£Ä¸û §¸ð¼¡ø Á¾¢Åá
Ezhuthachans Ramayanam is however is almost 90% Sanskrit and contains hardly any Dravidian Malayalam-Tamil language. This is because the Tulu Brahmins/Namboothiris and (Bunt) community/Nairs used Tulu script to write their works often with heavy Sanskrit usage. Though various subcastes of (Bunt) community such as Nayara Menava Kuruba and Samantha who practiced Matriarchy appeared in Kerala after 1310 AD as rulers the Grantha Bhasa was used only by Namboothiris and the majority of the indigenous Dravidian population of Kerala used only Malayalam-Tamil. Ezhuthachans work is also famed to have displayed the Modern Tulu-Malalyalam Script. Mandara Ramayayanam written in the Tulu language in the 16th century could be the source of this work. Ezhuthachan used Tulu Script to write his great work instead the traditional Vatteluttu script or Tamil Script hitherto used to write the Malayalam-Tamil. The Tulu-Grantha Bhasa, the personal language of Namboothiris in the later days promoted by the British under Monroe Dewan and Resident Mecaulay in the 1815s as the official language of Kerala.
Vilmeenkodi (talk) 17:37, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Thunjatu ramanujan Ezhuthachan is the father of Malayalam . every malayalees of what ever community & what ever education universally accepts ezhuthachan as father of Malayalam & A.R.Raja raja varma as keralapanini . this two are the athoritis in malayalam. tamizh fanatics view have no value here. Ezhuthachans malayalam of 80% Sanskrit & 20% classical dravidian is THE MALAYALAM . with out that 80% Sanskrit its just classical Dravidian & not Malayalam. & stop your tulu bullshit tamizh fanatic. Read kumaranashan's literature it has more Sanskrit than ezhuthachan & hes from ezhava community & not from you tulu conspiracy theory communities. & if you doubt kumaranashan you have no place in malayalam's talk page, get lost Tamizh fanatic.& one more thing Ezhuthachan belong to chakala nair community & hes not a nair!. this community have nair name only because they were servants in nair house hold. his caste is just like ezhava caste or any other backward caste. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.99.142.224 (talk) 05:04, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Origin of word Malayalam
Malay means mountain in Tamil. Al means people. Hence it refers to language of people from the mountainous regions. This refers to the mountainous region of the Western Ghats, now called Kerala.
Palindrome
I modified the reference to "Malayalam" being a palindrome in English to avoid saying that it is not one "strictly speaking". In English, palindromes are normally determined as such at the letter level, without regard to pronunciation. For example, the words "radar" and "sees" are palindromes, notwithstanding the fact that the two a's in "radar" are pronounced differently from each other, as are the two s's in "sees". --Metropolitan90 (talk) 10:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Move?
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:26, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Malayalam language → Malayalam —
- There need not be any ambiguity related to the word Malayalam. The name only specify a language, and not any group of people (like english, french or german does. The group of people who talk malayalam are known as Malayali). Aravind V R (talk) 13:25, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
- "Malayalam" also may mean the script. And many people likely confuse "Malayalam" and "Malayali". I have restored page Malayalam to the useful disambig page. See also Talk:Malayalam. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:18, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
- On the move to a new page: I have mixed feelings about this. Most language (at least, the ones I flipped through) seemed to have a "name_language" page, and it's nice to be consistent. The language page also does differentiate from a "name_script" page, if one should exist separately (as does for Tamil). Or Malayalam Cinema - which is clearly an important topic =). On the other hand, it's true that there are fewer things that it needs to be distinguished from than most languages which are also the names of groups of people. What do others think? Seems like if nothing else, we should move the talk page over somehow...? Leppac 14:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
- I moved this message by User:Leppac from the page which is now at Talk:Malayalam (disambiguation)#Move? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:26, 21 February 2010 (UTC).
- Support move. The "... language" disambiguator is used only where necessary, i.e. where the language name is also a nationality name or the like. It is not a style/consistency issue. Of the other articles that supposedly necessitate a disambig page at Malayalam, the Malayalam script is the only legitimate candidate, but in a case where the language and the script are so closely bound together (the M. script is named after the language and is used only for writing this language; in this it differs significantly from the case of, say, "Latin", where the scope of the script is radically different from that of the language), the script article can be treated as a quasi-subarticle of the language parent article and doesn't need an extra disambig entry. All the other entries on the dab page ("M. cinema", "M. literature" etc.) are out as per WP:DAB#Partial title matches. Therefore nothing that would block the move. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:20, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Pronunciation
Article states pronunciation of Malayalam is [maleɪˈɑ:ləm] or [mɐləjaːɭɐm]. As a Malayali I think it is wrong, I am not talking about anglicized pronunciation, but native pronunciation. It is something similar to [malɐjaːɭam]. Thanks--Praveen:talk 05:21, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
- Agrees to that. Seeking other opinions as well -- Aarem (Talk) 07:59, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Genology map
{{Dravidian languages genealogy}} Should we be adding the genealogy map to the article? I feel that a new template indicating the timelines should be created as well. -- Aarem (Talk) 08:01, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Example short phrases
The table below shows some common short phrases and words in malayalam. This is converted from kannada and doesnt represent malayalam words properly. So someone can correct this and include it in the article. 117.99.85.33 (talk) 09:35, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
| Words/phrases | Transliteration | Meaning |
|---|---|---|
| നമസ്കാര | Namaskara. | Hi/Hello. |
| നീവു ഹേകിത്തീരി? | Neevu Heegidiri? | How do you do? |
| ഹേകിത്തീയൊ? | Heegidiyo? | How are you? (to a male) |
| ഹേകിത്തീയെ? | Heegidiye ? | How are you? (to a female) |
| നീവു ഹേകിത്തീരി? | Neevu Heegidiri? | How are you? (formal) |
| നിമ്മന്നു പേടിമാടി സമ്തോഷവായിതു | Nimmannu Bhetemade Santhoshavayitu | Pleased to meet you. |
| മത്തെ പേടി മാടോണ | Matthae Bhaete Maadona | We will meet again. |
| തന്യവാത | Dhanyavāda | Thank you. |
| ഹൗതു | Houdu. | Yes. |
| ഇല്ല | Ella | No. |
| പേട തന്യവാതകളു | Beda Dhanyavadagalu | No, thank you. |
| എസ്ടു? | Aestu | How much?/How many? |
| എല്ലി? | Aelle? | Where? |
| ഹേകെ? | Heege? | How? |
| യാവാക? | Yaavaaga? | When? |
| യാരു? | Yaru? | Who? |
| ഏനു? | Aenu? | What? |
| ശുപ പ്രപാത | Śhubh prabhaat. | Good Morning. |
| ശുപ മത്യാന | Śhubh madhyaan. | Good Afternoon. |
| ശുപ രാത്രീ | Śhubh Ratri. | Good night. |
| സുസ്വാകത | su- swagata. | Welcome. |
- How did you get it in the Malayalam script? Below is a copy with the corrections/changes I made. Adding to the article... --Joshua Issac (talk) 02:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
- It was software converted. 27.57.75.203 (talk) 05:10, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
| Words/phrases | Transliteration (ISO 15919) | Meaning |
|---|---|---|
| നമസ്കാരം | Namaskāram | Hi/Hello |
| എന്തൊക്കെ ഉണ്ട് വിശേഷം? | Entokke uṇṭu viśēṣam? | How are things? |
| താങ്കളെ കണ്ടതിൽ സന്തോഷം | Tāṅkaḷe kaṇṭatil santoṣam | It was nice meeting you |
| പിന്നെ കാണാം | Pinne kāṇām | See you later |
| ദയവായി | Dayavāyi | Kindly/please (formal) |
| നന്ദി | Nanni | Thank you (formal) |
| അതെ/അല്ല | Athe/Alla | Yes/No ; Agree/Disagree (logical concept related) |
| ഉണ്ട്/ഇല്ല | undu/illa | Yes/No ; Have/Do Not Have (quantity related) |
| എത്ര? | Etṟa? | How much?/How many? |
| എവിടെ? | Eviṭe? | Where? |
| എങ്ങനെ? | Eṅṅane? | How? |
| എപ്പോൾ?? | Eppōḷ? | When? |
| ആർ? | Ār? | Who? |
| എന്തു? | Entu? | What? |
| സ്വാഗതം | Svāgatam | Welcome |
| Words/phrases | Transliteration | Meaning |
|---|---|---|
| നമസ്കാര | Namaskaram. | Hi/Hello. |
| നീവു ഹേകിത്തീരി? | Sukham Aano? | How do you do? |
| |Sukham Aano? | How are you? (to a male) | |
| ഹേകിത്തീയെ? | Sukham Aano? | How are you? (to a female) |
| നീവു ഹേകിത്തീരി? | Sukham Aano? | How are you? (formal) |
| നിമ്മന്നു പേടിമാടി സമ്തോഷവായിതു | Kandittu santhosam aayi | Pleased to meet you. |
| മത്തെ പേടി മാടോണ | Pinneum kanaam | We will meet again. |
| തന്യവാത | Nanni | Thank you. |
| ഹൗതു | Aanu. | Yes. |
| ഇല്ല | Ella | No. |
| പേട തന്യവാതകളു | venda, nanni | No, thank you. |
| എസ്ടു? | Etra? | How much?/How many? |
| എല്ലി? | Evide? | Where? |
| ഹേകെ? | Engane? | How? |
| യാവാക? | Ethu samayet? | When? |
| യാരു? | Aaru? | Who? |
| ഏനു? | Endu? | What? |
| ശുപ പ്രപാത | Śhubhprabhaatam. | Good Morning. |
| ശുപ മത്യാന | Śhubhmadhyaanam. | Good Afternoon. |
| ശുപ രാത്രീ | Śhubha Ratri. | Good night. |
| സുസ്വാകത | su-swagatam. | Welcome. |
Tulu language and culture started dominating Kerala only after 1310 AD
Tulunadu had Tulu Script almost 1000 years earlier before it appeared in Kerala as Malayalam Script.The Tulu Script was originally used by only Shivalli Brahmins of Tulunadu ie Mangalore area.When the Tulu Brahmins who migrated to Kerala in the middle ages redisignated themselves as Namboothiris. Many subcastes of Tulu Bunt (community) such as Nayara Menava Kuruba and Samantha appeared in Kerala as rulers after the 1310 invasion of Malik Kafur. Tulu Script was also a derivative of Grantha Script like Tamil and Malayalam. However Tulu-Malayalam script was never used by any Malayalaee until Thunchatu Ezhuthachan used it to write Ramayana in the 1650s. Tulunadus Aliasanthana, Matriarchy appeared as Marumakkathayam in Kerala after 1310 AD. Matriarchy Polyandry and Naga worship with live Snakes all came to Kerala after the decline of Tamil Chera Dynasty but they became common customs only after 1310 AD. After this Samantha rulers of Travancore Cochin, Samuthiris originally a subcaste of Tulu Bunt (community) appeared as rulers of Kerala only after 1310 AD. Tamil dynasties such as Chera Dynasty , Ay kingdom or Pandyan Dynasty never practised Matriarchy or Polyandry or Matrilineal descndency. Matriarchy was practised by Tulunadus Bunt (community) from the 345 AD when Kadamba King Mayuravarma brought the Nagas from Ahichatra and the adjoing areas of Nepal in 345 AD. The Brahmins who led the hereditarily bonded Nagas from Ahichatra to Kadamba capital Banavasi in 345 AD according to book called Grama Padhathi, Tulunadu Chronicles kept by Tulu Brahmins. These Nagas were not allowed to marry and the childen remained with the mothers. They were called Bunta or Bunts from whom Tulunadus Bunt (community) and Nairs of Kerala descent. The Aryan Brahmins thus came to Tulunadu used the Tulu Script to write their Sanskrit literature. Unlike Tamil Tulu language was never used widely and its literary achievments till 15th century were minimal. But Sanskrit education was common among the Ahichatra Aryan Brahmins ie Tulu Brahmins and Namboothris. The dominance of Nagas and Aryans with roots from Ahichatra in the Indo-Nepalese border in the Uttarkhand led to ascendency of Sanskrit and Tulu writing system which replaced the indigenous Malayalam- Tamil otherwise called Lingua Malabar Tamul (Native language of Malabar- Tamil) by the Portuguese. Between 1310 to 1500s suddenly Tamil was not encouraged by the Samantha rulers but Sankrit was encouraged and Tulu Script made its appearance. However the native Tamil as well as Manipravalam works used Vatteluttu script of Tamil commonly. Vatteluttu and its descendents called Malayanma script (Malayalam-Tamil Script) Kolezhuthu (Cochin) resembled Tamil and lacked the four fold letters required to write the Sanskrit. A new language called Manipravalam evolved by the mixture of Tamil and Sankrit. At the end of the 15th century when various Tulu works were written at Tulunadu the same works appeared in Kerala too. Thus Devimahatme appeared as Devimahatmium in Kerala written in Tulu-Grantha Bhasa(which would replace Malayalam in the British period). Similarly Sri Bhagavatha appeared as Bhagavatham in Grantha Bhasa of Namboothiris. The Tulu-Grantha Bhasa was limited to Namboothiris who make up to hardly 0.3 percent of Keralas population. The Tulu-Grantha Bhasa was spoken hardly by the people with Tulu roots till the Dutch started actively supporting it. Arnos Padiri alias Johann Ernst Hanxleden was among the early Dutch priest with German roots to support the Sanskrit based Tulu-Grantha Bhasa of Namboothris. Unlike the Portuguese who supported the native language Lingua Malabar Tamul the German and Dutch priests did not have any affinity to Dravidian langauges including Malayalam-Tamil. The new found knowledge that German was related to Sankrit made them support the Sanskrit based Tulu-Grantha Bhasa. Johann Ernst Hanxleden in 1699 wrote Grantha Bhashayude Vyagaranam (in that era the Namboothiri language was called Grantha Bhasa and Malayalam meant Malayalam-Tamil). Now Grantha Bhashyude Vyagaranam hailed by many as the first Malayalam Grammer. But Johann Ernst Hanxleden called it not as Malayalam Grammar. During the Dutch period (1660-1760) the Tulu Grantha Bhasa was gaining strength when the Catholic church also made subtle gestures of acceptance. In the 1702 Clemens wrote a book using the Namboothiri language at Rome called Samsheepa Vidartham. However Tamil or Malayalam-Tamil remained the mass language of Kerala until the British who started supporting the Nair-Namboothri states with the large Christian population who were in their controle.During the Portuguese period the Chavittu Nadakam the main entertainment of the Christians of that era was in Tamil and still performed in medival Tamil. Chinnathambi Annavi was the acclaimed author of Chavittu Natakam who lived at Mattancherry in Cochin in the 16th century. Chavittu Natakam is called so because of the tromping movements performed by the actors in the Koothu style.
In 1815 when Monroe became the Diwan of Travancore Church Mission Society was started at Kottayam. In this the language of Namboothiris, the Tulu Grantha Bhasa was used as the medium of instruction. From this point onwards the British deliberately promoted Sanskrit and Tulu writing system (often called Arya Ezhuthu). Most of the Keralas ancient Knowledge written in indigenous Malayalam-Tamil using Vatteluttu, Kolezuthu and and Malayanma in Palm leaf books disappeared soon. After the Diwanship of Monroe in 1815 and Lord Mecaulay who followed him as resident in 1820s supported this move. From this point onwards the Tulu-Grantha script was called Malayalam.Hardly any of the Keralas Christians had ever used Sanskrit to write prior to the British arrival. But the Christian instruction in Tulu-Grantha Bhasa led to the decline of indignous Malayalam-Tamil.
Vilmeenkodi (talk) 19:13, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Evolution Of Malayalam
Hi,
The "Evolution" section of the article seems to require revision to meet the NPOV standard. The version of the evolution of Malayalam presented in the section has few relevant citations and does not present any alternative views.
There seem to be various contradictions with other pages of Wikipedia. The article states "Till the 14th century the language of Kerala was Dravidian Tamil and hardly had any Sanskrit words." However, Dr. Geethakumari's study "A Contrastive Analysis of Hindi and Malayalam" states "After the 11th century a unique mixture of the native languages of Kerala and Sanskrit known as `Manipravalam� served as the medium of literary expression (Ramaswamy Iyer., 1936)." (A Contrastive Analysis of Hindi and Malayalam). There is disagreement in the timelines given.
Encyclopedia Britannica Online states "Malayalam evolved either from a western dialect of Tamil or from the branch of Proto-Dravidian from which modern Tamil also evolved. The earliest record of the language is an inscription dated to approximately 830 ce. An early and extensive influx of Sanskrit words influenced the Malayalam script. Known as Koleluttu (“Rod Script”), it is derived from the Grantha script, which in turn is derived from Brahmi. Koleluttu has letters to represent the entire corpus of sounds from both Dravidian and Sanskrit." (Italics mine). Again, there seem to be differences of opinion regarding teh time-line for introduction of Sanskrit words.
There are also many references to the influence of local rulers, who encouraged Sanskritization from an early period.
The section seems to ascribe responsibility for the Sanskritization of Malayalam, in toto, to "Namboothiris and those with Tulunadu roots", Christian Missionaries, the Portuguese and the British. It is difficult to accept that the influence of these groups, none of which directly ruled Kerala would have been capable of completely changing the nature of the language within a few hundred years.
The section includes emotionally charged statements - which seem to stem from differing viewpoints and attitudes among different social sections of Malayalees. These seem to be strongly biased towards a pro-Tamil, anti-Sanskrit viewpoint. Such emotional statements do not have a place in an encyclopedia article.
I would recommend a revision of this section, properly supported by citations and with alternative views presented in order to bring the section up to the standards of Wikipedia.
Regards,
Fair1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fair1 (talk • contribs) 14:40, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
It seems that Tamilians have been editing this page to make Malayalam look like an outlaw-dialect of Tamil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Linda Martens (talk • contribs) 14:18, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
- Strongly agree with Fair1, this section needs to be rewritten with correct references. arun talk 14:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
- It may not be correct to tag the entire article with OR, primarysources, etc. as the article cites about 35 references and many of them seems to be reliable. I suggest tagging only those sections which appears to be problematic. Salih (talk) 15:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
- Ok. arun talk 15:36, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
- Strongly agree with Fair1, this section needs to be rewritten with correct references. arun talk 14:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
I AGREE TO THE FACT AND BASICALLY BELIEVE THAT JUST ON GEOGRAPHICAL GROUNDS AND THE LIBI USED, MALAYALAM SHOULD NOT BE CLASSIFIED AS PURE DRAVIDIAN. 80% IS SANSKRIT WHY NOT CLASSIFY IT ACCORDINGLY ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.48.204.40 (talk) 16:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
I also feel bad about the fact that Malayalam is being tried to be shown as a modified copy of tamil. Just as the libi is similar, most words are sanskrut and the sandhis i.e joining of words to for a complex wording is totally similar to sanskrit. 182.48.204.40 (talk) 16:27, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Tamil and Malayalam were single language.
A popular view is that this language was split from Tamil so that Hindi people can rule. It is the age old technique of divide and rule. Had Tamil and Malayalam been a single language, it would have been even the national language of India. The split has resulted in no benefit except for internal fights and quarrels like the Periyar issue! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.13.109 (talk) 15:38, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
yes tamizhans should have also reformed there language with there western brothers & accepted the most scientific language on earth -Sanskrit to blend with the most poetic language on earth - classical Dravidian. so that we both now would have spoken the most scientific & poetic language on earth Malayalam . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.99.142.224 (talk) 05:16, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
- Malayalam is a classical language and entirely independent from tamil. Malayalam developed and grew on its own and has its own features. Stop piling on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.91.140.4 (talk) 09:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Giving classical status for Malayalam
If classical status is give to Malayalam, the very meaning of the word 'classical language' will be tarnished and redefined. Greek, Latin and Tamil etc should come under a more elevated status, than 'classical' if Malayalam is made on par with them. Will not any international agency intervene and put sane thoughts in the Indian Government, who is afraid of riots and declares languages one by one as classical? If Telugu and Kannada were not declared classical, then Malayalam demands would have been unheard of. It has become an ego problem. Only solution is to withdraw classical status to Telugu and Kannada! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.13.109 (talk) 08:52, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
- Malayalam has been given a status of classical language and hence is not any more to be subjected to the so called fake declarations of being of tamil origin. Malayalam is an independent language that grew on its own and has its independent features. Please stop the tinkering. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.91.140.4 (talk) 09:50, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Classical status for Malayalam
Following the lines of Kannada and Telugu, Malayalam is also demanding classical language status. deccanherald.com/content/67850/kerala-demands-classical-status-malayalam.html How correctly Dr.George Hart predicted this will happen? He is not only a great linguist but also a prophet! 'there is a fear that if Tamil is selected as a classical language, other Indian languages may claim similar status.' tamil.berkeley.edu/tamil-chair/letter-on-tamil-as-a-classical-language
'Malayalam most likely originated from ancient Tamil in the 6th century' Any language which is not of independent origin cannot be a classical language. Latin and Greek can be traced to originate from a source, whose name is not known. Such languages are called 'Proto' types. Likewise Tamil. Hence Tamil alone can be classical among Dravidian languages. The Indian govt shows ignorance and submission to riots when declaring any language as classical... That is why Kannada and Telugu have been declared classical.... A joke of the century! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.13.109 (talk) 09:38, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Tamil and Malayalam were once a single language
A popular view is that this language was split from Tamil so that Hindi people can rule. It is the age old technique of divide and rule. Had Tamil and Malayalam been a single language, it would have been even the national language of India. The split has resulted in no benefit except for internal fights and quarrels like the Periyar issue!80.195.13.109 (talk) 13:27, 12 March 2011 (UTC)Malliah
80 percent Malayalam words are 'directly' from Sanskrit?
The introductory part says 80% of Malayalam vocabulary is 'directly' from Sanskrit, so the remaining 20% are indirectly from Sanskrit !!? It cites three links but none of them could be verified, please provide something verifiable for the 80% part. It seems too much and definitely not 'Classical'. Legolas95 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 25 February 2011 (UTC).
- The confusion in sources is due to some technical change of links in google books. well, another- ref see this [1] page 144 says "A very important feature in which Malayalam stands apart from Tamil is the degree of the influence of Sanskrit on it. The percentage of Sanskrit words now in use in Malayalam will almost be 80." the other sources need to be relinked Arjuncodename024 17:11, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
It would be better if you could fix the problem with the links or give working and verifiable ones if you are putting it up there. Another thing is these figures are mostly estimates from examining few random pages of a dictionary. I am not sure how they come at these figures or how reliable and accurate they are. Also the colloquial Malayalam doesnt contain as much Sanskrit as most Sanskrit words find their place in literary works and technical writing. I think its misleading to provide such details from passing comments in rather obscure sources. If such details are to be provided, it better be from some authentic sources.(Legolas95 (talk) 09:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC))
- you are correct. scholarly usage of Malayalam contains such high percentage of Sanskrit. Malayalam literary survey by Kerala Sahitya Akademi source provided. Arjuncodename024 06:35, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
thanks for the clarification. I have moved the comment to the 'Words from Sanskrit' section as it would be more appropriate there than in the lead. Legolas95 (talk) 02:50, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Grammar article
Most languages seem to have a separate article for grammar, so I'm going to start one for Malayalam. Please help out if you can. Kannan91 (talk) 16:20, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- I've started it now (not much there yet): Malayalam grammar Kannan91 (talk) 17:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Selective removal.. etc Malayalam
Could you explain what you mean?--Malaikaran (talk) 14:24, 4 July 2011 (UTC) I would like to explain, why there is less content.. First of all most of the content was fiction. The strangely presented story was also sourced badly with dubious content like "arya ezhuthu" as a name for the Grantha script. Malayalam was influenced by Sanskrit, has many words in it, but to say it has over 80% Sanskrit words in it is pure nonsense and unbackable by any reliable sources. If it had over 80% Sanskrit I could never understand my mothertongue. It is a total lie or a non-knowledgable editor, who was pushing for Sanskrit. Additionally try to find a gbook with the word Grantha Bhasha in it. Zero results. Maybe this helps to understand some of the action I made to improve the intro.--Malaikaran (talk) 15:16, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
- Well, i appreciate your intention to make the lead succinct. But, in doing so; the balance has been lost as ceratin elements were retained and those related to Manipravalam, Grantha, Sanskrit etc were removed. The Pallava Grantha script is another variant and not the one used for Malayalam (afaik). Moreover, you sneakily removed the phrase "most probably originated" from the lead where theories of origin are described. Since there are different theories and since we cannot for-sure conclude whether Malayalam originated from ancient Tamil or from a proto-Dravidian tongue before that; such is necessary.
- I agree that sources for the 80% words from Sanskrit claim couldn't be easily verifiable from the web. Since you asked to do a gbook search; I did the same and saw [2]. In the first page of the result, 4 of the given snippets verify the claim.
- For "Arya ezhuth", clear citations were already given there ([3]). Arjuncodename024 05:24, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- I will try to fix those citations. I guess Malayalam literary survey published by Kerala Sahitya Akademi is a worthy source. Arjuncodename024 05:46, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- No, if there are only 4 sources against hundreds, it is not worthy to mention here. Any source will say, that Malayalam actually developed from old Tamiil,the dating is even rather clear by many sources... the word probably is used very generic and can be omitted here. I wrote "a P G s", not "the P G s", that means a variant of that script.--Malaikaran (talk) 07:24, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- There are theories of Malayalam origin. Malayalam could well have split from proto Dravidian before Tamil. You have again tried to remove Arya Ezhuth albeit sources; not only here, but also in Manipravalam. You have without reason deleted the Tamil Nadu State Department of Archaeology src. Stop your fanatic Tamil Jingoism. You seriously have a conflict of interest with Wikipedia. Arjuncodename024 08:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- Most gbooks don't use Arya Ezhuttu anywhere for the Mal script.. don't push your pov and invent Manipravalam-Malayalam fairy tales Upper Caste Hindu.--Malaikaran (talk) 09:02, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- There are theories of Malayalam origin. Malayalam could well have split from proto Dravidian before Tamil. You have again tried to remove Arya Ezhuth albeit sources; not only here, but also in Manipravalam. You have without reason deleted the Tamil Nadu State Department of Archaeology src. Stop your fanatic Tamil Jingoism. You seriously have a conflict of interest with Wikipedia. Arjuncodename024 08:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- No, if there are only 4 sources against hundreds, it is not worthy to mention here. Any source will say, that Malayalam actually developed from old Tamiil,the dating is even rather clear by many sources... the word probably is used very generic and can be omitted here. I wrote "a P G s", not "the P G s", that means a variant of that script.--Malaikaran (talk) 07:24, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
For the record : Malaikaran (talk · contribs) indefinitely blocked. Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Kalarimaster. Arjuncodename024 06:37, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Repetition
An anonymous user has been repeatedly removing a section starting with "In either case, Malayalam imbibed many elements from Sanskrit..." and the reference attached to it. His explanation is "repetition". I don't understand how does that constitute repetition and the removal of a reference is almost certainly not justified. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 08:20, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Interesting bit of history, if true
I've removed the following text from the talk page, which was added by 223.238.114.88 (talk). The references are given not as links but as numbers, and the numbers given do not correspond to the numbered references at the bottom of the page, or I'd have fixed it. It's a very interesting bit of history, so I'm hoping someone can help out, possibly with sourcing it.
- The old name for malayalkam is Manipravalam (Malayalam: മണിപ്രവാളം, maṇipravāḷam ?; “ruby coral”) was a literary style used in medieval liturgical texts in South India, which used an admixture of Tamil (early Malayalam of Kerala) and Sanskrit.[1][2][3] Manipravalam is termed a mixture of Sanskrit and Tamil.[4] Tamil language was the language of the region, part of Tamilakam, at the time of Manipravalam's genesis and use and its introduction caused a significant transition of Malayalam from Tamil in Kerala.[5][6][7] Mani-pravalam literally means ruby-coral, where Mani means ruby in Tamil while Pravalam means Coral in Sanskrit.[8] Malayalam is referred to as ruby and Sanskrit as coral.
Thanks, Quintucket (talk) 10:52, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
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Sugith
I assume that this name, common among Kerala Christians, is Biblical. If so, what is its English version? Masalai (talk) 14:45, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
sudheer nilambur
he is a proffesional photographer born in 1976 at nilambur. still workking in photography — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sudheernilambur (talk • contribs) 09:41, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
Edit in Laguage section
"Originally Malayalam was no more than a local dialect of pure Tamil. Political isolation and local conflicts, the impact of Christianity and Islam, and the arrival of the Nambudiri Brahmins a little over a thousand years ago, all created conditions favorable to the development of the local dialect Malayalam. The Nambudri grafted a good deal of Sanskrit onto the local dialect and influenced its physiognomy. Popular and religious songs were composed first. Presently, the phenomenal popularity of Kamban's Tamil Ramayana led in course of time to a similar version in the local dialect."
The above mentioned statements are based on Aryan Invasion theory and the legends about Parashurama providing migration of Nambudiri's from outside. This holds no credibility and hence cannot be used to term that Malayalam was bought/influenced by outsiders and is a modification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.91.140.4 (talk) 09:46, 17 September 2013 (UTC)