Talk:Mieczysław Jagielski

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Good article Mieczysław Jagielski has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
January 14, 2009 Good article nominee Listed
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 25, 2008.

Date of birth[edit]

Polish Wikipedia is clear: born on 12 January 1924 in Kolomyia. What sources give different d. o. b.? PS. 1924 is also given by WIEM Encyklopedia: [1] and PWN Encyklopedia: [2]. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 05:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the dob stated in the Polish Wikipedia, nor in the WIEM and PWN Encyklopedias. I drew upon two possible birth years, based upon the day he died, and how old he was when he died. Terrakyte (talk) 08:56, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Atheist[edit]

Where's the reference for him being an atheist? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:23, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I am afraid I am not sure what you mean. Are you saying that there was a reference on the article for the fact that he was an atheist, which is now not there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrakyte (talkcontribs) 20:38, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
I am saying that there is a category which is not backed up by any references. It is likely that he was an atheist (most prominent communists were), but it is not certain. If there are no refs to indicate his religious views, I suggest removing this category.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
I now see you what you meant, and I agree that the category should be removed until a reference can be found to back up the assertion that he was an atheist. Terrakyte (talk) 00:03, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

GA?[edit]

I wonder if the article would be good enough for a WP:GAC after the DYKing? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:21, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the article is within reach of meeting the GA criteria, though I think the article needs more info about his early life (childhood, entry into politics, early service in the Sejm), and post-Deputy Prime Minister life, before it can obtain GA-status, though I might be wrong in my estimation of what is needed to attain that class. I like the idea of nominating the article for GA. If you also believe the article is within reach/already reached the GA criteria, then regarding when we nominate the article, how about you post a statement on this talk page stating when you feel you have done all you can with the article, and then when I have posted likewise (or vice-versa), the article can be nominated? Terrakyte (talk) 20:32, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
I thought it might be useful, if you are game for trying to get this article up to GA-class, for me to tell you what I am planning atm to do in order to improve the article:
  • Firstly, I have a few more English news articles which talk about Jagielski to a degree for me to go through. I have found several what I presume to be Polish-language news articles as well. May I ask if you could look at the Polish-language articles, and get some info transfered to this article, if that is ok? The link to a list of these articles is here: [3]
  • Secondly, I plan to expand the info in the infobox with information like his service in the Sejm, which Presidents he served under e.t.c.Terrakyte (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately most media articles are not free. I will see if I can dig any useful information from what I can access. I can access most academic articles for free, but none seemed to contain useful info (there was one photo but of poor quality). Some more photos here: [4]--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
It seems all Polish articles are pay-per-view, and further, unlike Google Scholar, Google News does not recognize my university affiliation (or Pitt has not bought the rights to them). If you find Polish text for me to translate, let me know, but I looked at the first few pages of Polish results on GNews and it's all non-free :( --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 23:28, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the link to the academic articles, and the photos. I likewise have not been able to find much out of them. It's a shame a lot of the news articles that could help us are non-free. Whatever happened to freedom of information? Nothing much free about it.  :) Thank you for the offer of translating Polish work I link you to. Terrakyte (talk) 00:08, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
That's why we have to fight for free culture. Long live Lessig! :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 00:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Dates and few other comments[edit]

I corrected a few errors (Minister of Agriculture from 1959, not 1957) and added some day/month dates, as well as the position of Deputy Minister of Agriculture (1957-1959). I cannot find day and month dates for his appointments (and ends of) to Central Committee, Politbiuro, and the Planning Committee (the latter has a day and month of when he left); I also cannot find a reference for his appointment to the Central Committee in 1959 - this year is based on unreferenced claim on pl wiki (although it is probably correct). I wonder if those positions shouldn't be added to the infobox? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for correcting some errors, and adding additional info. I think adding the years he served as a member of the Politburo should be added to the infobox, as from what I have gathered, being a member of the Politburo was a very important position. I am not sure regarding my position on adding his years of service in the two committees you have highlighted, as on the one hand, I think that adding that information may be going a bit overboard, and that the infobox should be reserved for stating positions of great importance (and I do not think having a position within these two committees were positions of great importance); but on the other hand, I think that info should be added for completeness. If the claim stating that he became a member of the Central Committee in 1959 cannot be sourced, I suggest we remove it, as a typical GA reviewer tends to frown upon a sentence with a citation needed tag. What do you think, both regarding the issue of adding the two committees to the infobox, and the possible removal of the claim? On another note, I read in the article that Jagielski served " for all consecutive terms from 2nd to 8th". I am afraid I do not know what "2nd to 8th" means, and I fear other people reading the article may not know either. As a result, could you write on the article an elaboration of what 2nd to 8th means? Also, in the infobox under the title "Deputy Prime Minister of the People's Republic of Poland", it says "20 June 1970 – 31 July August 1981". Did Jagielski's term end on July 31, or August 31? Thanks in advance if you respond to my queries. Terrakyte (talk) 19:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Also, in the article it says "Born on January 12, 1924, in Kołomyja, Second Polish Republic (now Kolomyia, Ukraine)". Do you think it would be better to state the geographic, rather than the political entity that he was born in? Also, under the "Early political career" section, there is a single-line paragraph which states "He was also an economist, and from 1975 held a professorship in the Main School of Planning and Statistics in Warsaw." I am aware that single-lined paragraphs are not recommended, so I think this paragraph should be attached to the larger paragraph above it in the same section. Terrakyte (talk) 21:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
I support adding committees to the infobox.
I think finding a ref for him entering the CC is very important, as it was an important position, too (I've stubbed it: Central Committee of the Polish United Workers Party).
By terms 2nd to 8th I mean terms of office - i.e. 8th Polish Sejm or the 112th United States Congress.
Kołomyja was in Poland (the Second Polish Republic), now is in Ukraine. I think it is more clear to state it this way?
I think his economic career deserves a separate paragraph, if not a section, and hopefully will be somehow expanded in the future.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

After deliberating more upon the idea of adding committees to the infobox, and based upon your own approval of the idea of adding them, I support it. I'll add the committees asap. I agree that adding a ref for the CC claim is very important, and I will do my best to find such a ref. Thanks for your explanation as to what 2nd to 8th means. "Kołomyja was in Poland (the Second Polish Republic), now is in Ukraine. I think it is more clear to state it this way?" Definetly more clear. Cheers. As for his economic career, I agree it should have more coverage. However, I believe until such time as more information is found regarding his economic career, the single-line paragraph should be merged with the larger one above. We can always take it out again when we have found more info about his economic career. Just like to remind that under the title "Deputy Prime Minister of the People's Republic of Poland" in the infobox, it says "20 June 1970 – 31 July August 1981". Did Jagielski's term end on July 31, or August 31? Terrakyte (talk) 00:06, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I think that an occasional single line para is ok, what looks bad is a series of those. According to [5], Jagielski's term as the Deputy Prime Minister ended on 31 July, I will correct this ASAP.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 00:13, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Good news! A collegue of mine, User:Picus viridis, has been so kind as to suprise me by seeking some books with biograms of MJ and sending me the scans (those books are mostly unavailable to read via Google Print). We have the ref date for him joining the CC in '59 and few other tidbits; I'll probably update the article in the next day or so. I left Picus a thank you note on pl wiki, thought you may want to chime in - he is a really helpful guy, always willing to scan biograms of people for use on wiki :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:58, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Great work in finding a reference for the CC fact, and I've thanked Picus viridis for his valuable assistance. :) Thanks for correcting the infobox. Terrakyte (talk) 18:05, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
It does strike me when I realise that, only 8 days ago, this article was 4 lines long. :) Terrakyte (talk) 20:48, 27 November 2008 (UTC)