Talk:Naming law in Sweden

Vfd

On 21 Mar 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116 for a record of the discussion. —Korath (Talk) 00:53, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)

Swedish Naming Laws

From the Article: In Sweden parents can choose from a list of about 1000 names. If they don't find a name to their liking, they could opt for a different one using a petition or by going to court. Since about 2000 the naming rules have been relaxed a little, but are still pretty strict as compared to other European countries: opting for a non-existing name still requires a petition.

Does anyone have a source on this? A Swedish friend just told me there are no such restrictions, and I can't really find anything about it on the web. Darksun 13:13, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hmm...it seems that there is a real verifiability problem here. Lots of google hits, even after filtering out the numerous Wikipedia mirrors, but most of the hits seem to be from bloggers who are all copying each other, (and copying off of Wikipedia). Would any one know how to translate this:

PATAFYSISKT NAMN STOPPAS AV RÄTTEN

Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116. Så får inte lille Albin stava sitt namn. Kammarrätten i Göteborg fann inget stöd i lagen för att döpa människor i sådan anda. Den vida kända halländska namnstriden började med att länsrätten i Halland utdömde ett vite mot föräldrarna på 5000 kronor för att inget förnamn alls registrerats på gossebarnet, trots att han hunnit bli fem år. Då skickade föräldrarna in stavningen med 43 tecken. Namnförslaget bör ses i patafysisk anda, skrev föräldrarna i sin inlaga. Men kammarrätten kunde inte se patafysiskt på stavningen. Parafysik är de inbillade lösningarnas vetenskap, uppfunnen av absurdisten Alfred Jarry som annars är mest känd som författare till teaterstycket "Kung Ubu".

It comes from here: [1]. The "Kung Ubu" bit is interesting. Unfortunately, babelfish.altavista.com does not do Swedish. func(talk) 02:58, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That's basically what the article says, however, Im looking for verification on the paragraph about Swedish naming laws, specifically In Sweden parents can choose from a list of about 1000 names.. As far as I can tell, that's completly untrue. Darksun 15:33, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Both that paragraph and the one about Boy Tarzan in the passport was added by the same user (Metacarpus) and both sounds equally fishy. 80.203.115.12 01:36, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I've removed both the paragraph about Swedish naming laws and the Boy Tarzan bit since they are unverified claims. 80.203.115.12 12:51, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm Swedish and there is no official list of acceptable names. Most parents would give their children names that are socially acceptable though. See Most popular names#Sweden for a list of popular Swedish first names. Thuresson 09:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Swedish too, and not only is there no official names, there are likely many, many more than 1000 names possible. If they had named their kid something arbitrary and random like Alahamar, that would probably have went through. Their submission probably failed on the part it was "otherwise not suitable for a child" as it was so radically strange and problematic for many reasons. -- Northgrove 01:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't comment on the verification or existance of such a law in Sweden, but I consider it fairly likely, as I know we have such a law in Norway, which shares its eastern border with Sweden. In Norway, you can't give a child a name that would be considered likely to be a source of bullying or a hinderance in their adult life. There has been some controversy over this, as there are several traditional names that are technically illegal under that law, although I doubt they are actually enforcing it in those cases. For instance, it is illegal to use animal names, such as Bjørn (bear) and Varg (wolf), the former being a common name with a long history, and the second being a name that at least isn't unheard of (e.g. Varg Veum). There have been several protests over this here as well. The law appears well-intentioned, but the issue is too complicated to deal with in law without the consequence being that the state meddles excessively in the affairs of ordinary citizens. Questions or replies to my talk page, as I'm just passing through. LovData can provide verification for Norway, at least, and I imagine Sweden has something similar; I can translate if necessary. Zuiram 21:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no ban on the name Bjørn according to a user on the talk page no:Diskusjon:Bjørn (navn). The law (Lov om personnavn) explicitly permits names that "are traditional forenames in Norway or other countries". -- Abut 14:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Update?

So did the kid (who is now, if living, an adult) ever get a name (or, perhaps more precisely, an acceptable—to the government—spelling of his name)? What does he sign now that he's old enough to sign legally binding stuff of his own? --Haruo 12:10, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

According to my calculations, he's 14 years old. I don't think Swedish law considers 14-year-olds as adults. — JIP | Talk 12:20, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Yikes, how'd I do that?! I managed to add a decade to his age right here in my own head! Still, I'd be interested to know what his legal name is, and if he has none, how that works. Hope the poor kid's homeschooled ;-) --Haruo 12:59, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

If his parents are like that all the time, I hope he's NOT homeschooled...

Since homeschooling is virtually non-existant in Sweden (it might even be illegal) I doubt that the boy is homeschooled. But with such parents, anything is possible... 217.208.26.177 11:11, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

If they don't like how Sweden's goverment works, why don't they just leave and go to an extremely libral place like Andorra.... Link9er 16:56, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

If there are still doubts about this story, I suggest asking the parents mentioned in the article (Elisabeth Hallin and Lasse Diding). Couple with the same names runs bit extravagant hotel Gastis *[2] (see here - *[3]) in Varberg (small town some 40km north to Halmstad (*[4]). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom.Nasdaq (talk • contribs) 23:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Naming Laws

Is there an article about Swedish naming laws anywhere? Link9er 16:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

To answer this, and the other posters here asking if there really is such a law, the actual rule involved here is only one paragraph from Namnlagen ("the name law"):

34 § Som förnamn får inte godkännas namn som kan väcka anstöt eller kan antas leda till obehag för den som skall bära det eller namn som av någon annan anledning uppenbarligen inte är lämpligt som förnamn.

which loosely translated means:

First (i.e. 'given') names shall not be approved if they can cause offense or can be supposed to cause discomfort for the one using it, or names which for some obvious reason is not suitable as a first name.

So it's not like Sweden has some huge set of laws on what you're allowed to be named and not. It's just the above paragraph. Which is enforced by the tax authorities (census data being their responsibility). Their decision can be appealed to court. --BluePlatypus 23:06, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Is Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmmprxvclmnckssqlbb11116 or whatever a name? Names have to have vowels in them thisis not great this may be put for deletion. If you say so le me know. --Bill and Pete by Tomiede Paola 02:44, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Read the article and find out. There was already a vote for deletion for this article, and the result was a "keep" with a large margin. It may be a quite trivial thing, but is still a factual event that was widely reported. --BluePlatypus 15:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't think this article has its place in Wikipedia

I think this article is childish and has the taste of yellow journalism. Therefore is not suitable as an entry in a serious encyclopedia. Imagine one day Wikipedia is printed. Who would ever search for such an entry? Please consider it for deletion...

See the VFD decision last year. WP 11:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

If every single episode of Babylon Five has its own article, then absolutely ANYTHING can have its own article on Wikipedia. I am thinking about writing an article about myself, since I am hopefully infinitely less trivial than some of the stuff I see. Bretonbanquet 14:19, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps ... but then it would probable get flagged for deletion due to being a non-notable person.  ;-) --Kralizec! (talk) 14:50, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Probably, if it already hadn't occurred. -- 127.*.*.1 18:53, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

The article isn't about the person - it's about the name. The name is clearly notable - it's been reported in numerous news reports. I think it's perfectly possible that someone encountering a reference to this event might wish to look it up in an encyclopedia to get a coherent description of what happened and why. There is no good reason to remove it. The 'non-notable person' rule is there PURELY to avoid people writing about themselves, their friends and relatives as vanity articles or tributes to the deceased. This is none of those things. What is severely missing from the article is the final outcome. If this happened over a decade ago, the kid must by now have a name - or the law must have changed or something...what happened?? SteveBaker 19:05, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Most likely he's just named "Albin", the conventional spelling of the name. --BluePlatypus 21:38, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, so may be the child's parents have somehow lost their marbles and come unglued, but I just really don't see the point of this article being on Wikipedia, for it is neither necessary or resourceful, and obviously written in very bad taste. Perhaps the boy's parents would like to launch a campaign... but not here! Luthinya 15:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

It's certainly not in very bad taste - there's nothing wrong with the way it's written. The story was newsworthy and it's obviously still a talking point - just look at this page. It's a lot more worthy than many other articles in my opinion. Bretonbanquet 16:37, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

There's just something about this story that just gets under people's skin; there's a reason why the article is translated into 16 other Wikipedia databases. Sandover 17:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

April fools

Is this an April Fool's joke? Yanksta x 23:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Note: http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Info/longname.html cites "Reuters, Boston Globe 30-May-96" as a source. -- The Anome 23:49, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Searching on http://www.boston.com/globe/search/ doesn't produce anything like that story. I'll keep looking. JesseW 14:23, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I first seen this name mentioned in a magazine a while back. I remembred about it when this joke question appeared. Kirk 23:53, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

How much is 5000 Kroner? Mark Richards 20:15, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Roughly GBP £400, €500 or USD $650 Dmn 20:30, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Did Euros exist when the fine was given out? Andjam 09:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

No, but Sweden still uses kroners now in any case. -- Blorg 14:52, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

What's wrong with this name? Is this strange? -- Taku 23:45, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

One of the general rules about naming law is that the name must be pronounceable as written, and not be nothing. Chris 17:07, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, "Albin" is clearly pronouncablem although generally it doesn't look much like Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116 in script...

Yes, but his name isn't Albin. It's Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116, which in itself isn't pronounceable if you haven't already been told it's pronounced that way. Chris 23:02, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I am from Laholm (some 20 km south of Halmstad). I remember seeing thios in Hallandsposten, the local newspaper, don't remember exactly when though. Actually, the parents tried another spelling of the name afterwards (read the article), which wasn't approved of either.

moving this down to "April fools" section Bmecoli 21:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

It's true: http://www.kulturrad.no/sitefiles/1/postjournal/2006/oktober/off2410-261006.pdf

What's the kid called now?

It doesn't say in the article what name the kid finally got, anyone know? AllanHainey 11:56, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Probably just Albin or A. 87.74.4.65 11:08, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

This means that in the UK if he "couldn't be named for legal reasons" he couldn't be called "Child A" because then he'd have been named...?Britmax 10:18, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

If I had my way, I'd call him Dennis the Menace. --§ Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody _{(talk + contribs + userboxes)} 21:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Now that would be unfair to a child who could be presumed to be an innocent victim to the whims of his parents? Clearly, if we were to attach a value judgement to this, wouldn't it be the parents who are the menaces?? --CodeGeneratR 09:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

How is this real? Are you kidding me? --66.218.13.155

Not kidding. It was reported pretty widely in Swedish media. The article could use a better reference (preferrably in English), though. This whole story makes me support the naming law even stronger.--CodeGeneratR 02:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd pretty much hate my parents if they did this. BirdValiant 21:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

"Boy named Sue" aside, I'm thinking the parents did this in protest against an intrusive law, and I'd say there's a good chance that (a) schools etc would cooperate in sticking with the pronounced version of the name to avoid bullying, and (b) the kid would grow up to be more reflected than its peers. Growing up in any home that holds beliefs or values that cause friction in society can be a source of frustration for a child growing up, but unless we're going to codify the social mores we require a child to be imprinted with, parents will continue to raise kids with their own mores and such things will continue to happen; it is no different than growing up with hippie parents, or as one of the Smith's Friends, or even (in some areas) growing up Jewish. Either way, you end up with some aspect of people's perception of you being out of line with the local norm, which often has a lot of potential for bullying and social ostracism when growing up. Hating one's parents for their views not being in line with the local norm as a result of the inability of people to respect such differences is assigning the blame in the wrong place. Just my 2 kroner. Zuiram 21:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Not worthy of being on Wikipedia

Althrough it makes an interesting read, It is NOT a biography, and NOT explanation of anything. It is simply a made up word by the parents in order to supposibly avoid a fine by Swedish courts. This should not be in Wikipedia.

Please bear in mind that you don't have to like every article in Wikipedia. This is also interwiki linked to Wikipedia in 22 other languages; there is significant and obvious interest in this article. Unfocused 16:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that I don't have to like every article written in Wikipedia, but at a very minimum, since Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116 is NOT a person's name, this article is miscatigorized and needs to be changed to reflect that. In addition, the links to this article from other Wiki pages don't support the other ariticles nor does this article provide any information other than legal. If you wanted to add every legal decision ever made by every court in the world to Wikipedia, then I think this article would finally have a home, but that's not the case. Also, the article has no references. Gohiking 16:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

AGREE

• The name may be notable but the person himself is definitely NOT.
• The name has NOT been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works, since it has a single source (Reuter).
• Some may argue it is an unusual article. It is okay to be unsual, but it is at all "a valuable contribution" to Wikipedia? They fail to explain the value for its existence as an article. Attempting to show the creativeness of Swedish parents? Or the rigidity of the Swedish jurisdiction?
• If I was to re-name myself to gibberish12398240912841240124, but got rejected from the jurisdiction, do I get an entry in Wikipedia? The name itself really isn't worth anyone remembering.
• It is original thought - WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_publisher_of_original_thought
• The article is so far been unverified. This article started April 6, 2004, it has been nearly 2 years and 8 months, we have nothing - no the person's school record, photo, email... etc.. to verify this claim. This kid was born in 1991, he must have been now 15 years old. If he is known to everyone has Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116, how there isn't anyone who can verify this is beyond me. Lack of news reporter in Sweden?

If it was to be included in Wikipedia, the most appropriate will be in the List of unusual personal names.

-- drybittermelon (talk．contribs) 17:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The issue is that is isn't even a personal name. The name suggested by the parents was rejected by the courts. It should not even be included on a list of unusual names. Gohiking 20:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This article should be deleted, and the contents moved to articles dealing with naming laws in Sweden etc. LDHan 18:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not even sure this is an actual name, since all I could find on Google were those two links that are already on the article, neither of which are absolutely verifiable. I contacted Reuters via email, but it'll be a little while before I can expect a reply. Blast 05,03,07 0321 (UTC)

Norwegian news seems to have reported this in 1996 with a slightly different spelling of the name: Brfxxccxxmnpckcccc111mmnprxvclmnckssq1bb11116 [5]. You have to pay to see the whole article. I have access to it, it is very short and similar to the Reuters article and cites swedish newspaper Hallans Nyheter as the source. 129.240.86.4 13:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Question:

How tf is Blkjrfhsljfghslkjfg(whatever) pronounced Aibin (or something)? NikoSilver 01:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

None knows what these people had on their mind when they baptized this kid :P --KaragouniS 14:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The parents are athiests, so there was no baptism. Gohiking 17:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

That's making an assumption. I know a guy from Norway who is a "baptized atheist." It may have been because of the language barrier, but he was never able to actually explain (before he went back to Norway) what that meant. -- trlkly 09:51, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm a baptized atheist. It's very simple. You just have to have parents who are willing to let a pastor sprinkle some water on you when you're too young to make you're own decisions and then you grow up to never develop a belief in a deity. Voila! -- Randall00 ^Talk 18:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Qua definition, everyone is born atheist (or, at the very least, agnostic). Therefore every baptised child is a baptised atheist -- and also a Roman Catholic (or whatever the priest baptising it was). Also, should they not adopt the Roman Catholic faith, they will remain a Roman Catholic atheist (or even a, say, Roman Catholic Muslim if they adopt a different faith). I'm not sure about other religions, but the only way to undo baptising for Roman Catholics is to get excommunicated by the Vatican.

Ergo, baptising doesn't infer religious confession, theism or "faith". This goes for legal notes as well -- you can be a Lutheran according to your papers, but not believe in any deities. In fact, I'd wager most atheists or atheist agnostics remain in their official "religion" because they can't be arsed to wade through the bureaucratic jungle to undo what their parents did to them as newborns. Converts (including prior atheists/agnostics), OTOH, are more likely to be militant enough about their (new) faith to do so. -- 62.143.100.196 08:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

True. OTOH, there are many baptized or not baptized believers who prefer to only declare "atheists", rather than bearing the stigma of the possibly negative connotations of their particular religion among peers who believe in a different one. BTW, this whole irrelevant conversation started from a pronunciation question. Anyone knows the answer? NikoSilver 13:01, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, Mormons don't baptise the living until the age of 8, so the person being baptised has a little more understanding than an infant. AFAIK, their baptisms of the dead (by proxy) do not share the same age restriction. Prolly something about that in our article on the topic. Secondly, I'm pretty sure it's pronounced "albin" because the "Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116" is silent, but I haven't found a citation for that yet. :) Ronabop (talk) 06:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

This article in the Wikipedia store

I've made some merchandise for the Wikipedia store based on this article: [www.cafepress.com/wikipedia/2585476 Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116] section. Let me know what you think on the meta page. Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 01:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

That's how I found this article. Cool. Rocket000 (talk) 19:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

"nckssqlbb11116" seems to be missing from the cafepress item titles? Ronabop (talk) 07:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Is he still alive today?

Is he, and if so, what is his name? A•N•N•A hi! 20:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a forum. -- 200.226.38.250 (talk) 09:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116

Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116

1991 yılında İsveçli bir aile(Elisabeth Hallin and Lasse Diding), İsveçteki "İsim Verme Yasası"nı protesto etmek amacıyla yeni doğan çocuklarına "Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116" adını verdi. Devlet tarafından açılan dava sonucunda aile sözü geçen yasaya aykırı davrandıkları için yaklaşık 5,000 kronor( US$ 682 ) lık cezaya çarptırıldılar. Temyize giden aile bu kez çocuklarının adını "A" olarak değiştirmek istediler fakat mahkeme bu isme de karşı çıktı.(language:Turkish)

This is the English Wikipedia, not the Turkish (see here). I suggest all comments in English. Basketball110 03:50, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hers/his bad. See here. --Michael Angelkovich (talk) 22:25, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia. That means that articles are written in English, not the talk pages. If this person wants to help improve the English Wikipedia but can only do it in Turkish, then they have every right to try. --149.4.211.183 (talk) 17:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Hash Key

Wow, this looks more like a Hash key than a name :) Can we get some more refrences? Thedjatclubrock :-) ^(T/C) 02:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Refs

Per the (declined) speedy; see GNews Hits. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 18:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

"Parents refused right to name son Allah"

[6] Might be worth adding to the article. Theleftorium 13:09, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Interwiki

Is it correct to give direct links from this article to entries about Brfx...11116's case itself in other languages? It's only one of cases having to do with this law. If another one gets so known, then why Brfx...1116 must be of a higher priority? I suggest removal of all interwikis save for he: and sv:, which lead to analogous articles. --Microcell (talk) 12:09, 1 January 2011 (UTC)\

Nobles

primarily in order to prevent non-noble families from giving their children the names of noble families. It would be great to have some examples of both.

I was bold and removed this sentence, it is wrong. Pat8548 (talk) 19:59, 25 September 2011 (UTC) This article needs editing, i will try to make this article better, perhaps translations of swedish wiki articles.Pat8548 (talk) 20:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Some examples of the kind of names the law set out to prohibit would be good. Can you really not call your child Carl?Nickpheas (talk) 20:24, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Someone brought back that sentence because it was included in one of the references. That reference was wrongly worded; I've clarified according to another of the references. The article is however still outdated. Emelkaji (talk) 17:13, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

You might want to consider updating the inflation rates manually

title says it all 65.113.155.18 (talk) 21:06, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I guess you're referring to the use of the {{Inflation}} template in this article, and you're proposing replacing that with a number that would need to be manually updated periodically? I can't see any reason that that would be an improvement. Can you explain why you think it would be better to maintain inflation numbers manually in thousands of articles rather than in one place? CodeTalker (talk) 21:48, 6 February 2023 (UTC)