Talk:Pangolin

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Falgaia. Peer reviewers: Gdoman1.

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Taxonomy: Order(s), Genus, Species

The article has the genus Manis split between two subfamilies. Someone who knows more about pangolins than I do needs to fix this. --Suttkus 16:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the interposing 'subfamily'. If it was true, the species in it would have to be transferred to new genera, which they don't appear to have been. If they are in the future, the subfamily ranking, if valid, can be restored. - MPF 20:38, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

A good source is the Gaudin et al paper. It is the latest literature on the classification of pangolins. 208.103.112.69 (talk) 14:36, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

The latest literature splits pangolins into three Genus: Manis, Phataginus, and Smutsia. I have made changes in various places to reflect this.

References

-- 208.103.112.69 (talk) 14:32, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

List of possible Pangolin orders:

Pholidota

Cimolesta

Carnivora (not very possible)

Which one is right?

P.S. Add more if you like. 61x62x61 (talk) 15:20, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Concerning the paper "Resolution of the Early Placental Mammal Radiation Using Bayesian Phylogenetics"; is there any other source confirming or any indication that this paper is generally accepted in its assertion of Pangolin belonging to Carnivora instead of Xenarthra? Aepryus (talk) 15:18, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Molecular phylogenetic data clearly indicate that pangolins are related to carnivorans within Laurasiatheria (although they do not "belong" to Carnivora), and are only distantly related to Xenarthra. See any of the papers here. I think that has been fairly generally accepted. Ucucha 20:24, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps, being able to see the forms of the root nodes of such divisions, would make it seem less shocking, but wow. I understand the concept of convergent evolution, but the forms and mannerisms of the Pangolin are qualitatively so similar to possums and armadillos; it makes me wonder whether previous ancestral forms are not archived in the DNA somehow and there is a lesser barrier to evolve back to a known form than to a whole new form (like a drop of water moving down the side of tub). Aepryus (talk) 17:33, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

The clade chart "Phylogenetic relationships of genera and species of Manidae" shows only 7 of the 8 species. Missing from it is Manis culionensis (Philippine pangolin). I'm not sure how to fix this. Acwilson9 (talk) 02:38, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Place in Lele religious symbolism

The tree pangolin is of central importance to the Lele people. Perhaps something on this could be included? See Animals in Lele Religious Symbolism in Implicit Meanings by Mary Douglas for details. 81.168.46.55 17:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Douglas's "Animals in Lele Religious Symbolism": https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9780203029909/chapters/10.4324/9780203029909-8. ; https://www.uio.no/studier/emner/sv/sai/SOSANT1600/v12/Douglas_Animals_in_Lele_1156365.pdf . Acwilson9 (talk) 03:57, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Vandalism in the "Threats" section

Someone stated that the population of Pangolins has doubled in the past four months in the "Threats" section. They even included a reference link. First of all, the history shows that the statement has been there since at least April, so is it four months or ten months? But it doesn't make any difference because the statement is completely bogus. The reference link mentions pangolins, but it doesn't say anything about their population doubling. I'd fix it, but everything I know about pangolins was what I learned on Wikipedia in the last 5 minutes. So, hopefully a pangolin expert will fix this.

And what's the deal with the bloody Chinese, anyway? Is there any endangered species that they don't eat? Martylunsford 00:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Endangered status

Pangolin were called "nkaka" in the southern and central areas of the Bandundu region of the D.R.C. I ate them several times. Their meat is in a word...fantastic. After hearing that their populations are under pressure from over harvesting, I felt kind of bad for enjoying the meat so much. JoeArc 24 May 2007

I haven’t been able to find anything definitive about the endangered status of various pangolin species, but if anyone knows that they are, they should be put into that category. — Wiki Wikardo 22:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

All Pangolins are in not threatened or least concern status, although hunting is making populations decline. 13:26, 15 August 2007

Dear All, in case anybody wishes to contribute further to this article, THIS could be an interesting link: http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/04/opinion/sutter-change-the-list-pangolin-trafficking/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 Best regards--Semut23A (talk) 01:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Please sign your posts.

Per the article with its citation:

All eight species of pangolin are classified by the IUCN as threatened to extinction, while two are classified as critically endangered."Manis pentadactyla". IUCN Red List. 2014. Archived from the original on 9 February 2015. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

Mtminchi08 (talk) 00:45, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

(1) It is impossible to tell from the article as it is currently written which Pangolins are found on which continent. African pangolin sub-species should be somehow marked as such, or there should be some way to figure out which Pangolins pertain to South-East Asia, etc. The actual wording of the article now makes it seem as if the Chinese are buying Pangolins from Africa; this is not the case; they are hunted and killed in Laos (and the last few forests of Thailand), then sent up to the gourmets to the north.

(2) It remains entirely unclear to me which Pangolin sub-species are endangered, if any. I have personally seen Pangolin being chopped up for food in the middle of a Lao "National Park" (NBCA), viz., for the delectation of (likely Chinese) tourists. Most locals report that they find the meat revolting (which is also interesting...) --as the article states, the interest is primarily medicinal (and, perhaps, partly grim curiosity).

Sorry, there is no further information that I can supply.

Anonymous

Please sign your posts. Also this source shows that African pangolins ARE being shipped to China.

Fletcher, Martin (4 February 2015). "The world's most-trafficked mammal - and the scaliest". BBC News. Archived from the original on 5 February 2015. Retrieved 4 February 2015. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |website= (help); Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

Mtminchi08 (talk) 00:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Captivity

Maybe I'm crazy, but I distinctly remember seeing a pangolin at the Bronx Zoo a few years ago in the section of nocturnal animals. This article states that they are only in captivity in two places. Someone should check up on that. Maybe I will. -David — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.168.129.124 (talk) 19:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

They are at the Pittsburgh Zoo. See http://www.npr.org/2017/07/03/535408634/biologists-divided-over-how-to-save-endangered-pangolin. 173.90.65.191 (talk) 03:30, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Baby diet

I've found a baby Giant Pangolin, apparently there have only been two recorded births, and they are on the scarce side. i do not know what to feed it and would greatly appreciate info posted on there diets as babies. I'm in the tropical forests of Liberia and there are no vets or wild life conservations here. i cannot let it go as i have already bought it from a guy who was planning on eating it, there are no laws against killing and eating any animals of any sort here, it would be cought and killed in under 15 minutes. post any helpful links or advice on my page.Henrigreeff (talk) 10:42, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I have to say, I think you're in completely the wrong place for advice like this. If the Diet section isn't enough info, I doubt anyone here knows. I'd try looking at the references for an expert who might've worked with pangolins directly and contact them; or you could try to read up on other, more popular, insectivores and what they are fed in captivity as infants (anteaters maybe are popular enough). --Gwern (contribs) 15:46 21 September 2009 (GMT)

What happened to this baby pangolin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.130.243 (talk) 02:52, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Pangolin used for clothing

The Pangolin page in the Catalan edition has an image of a Coat of pangolin scales. Would that be something to include here? --Cavalaxis (talk) 02:13, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll put that straight away if I can find a suitable place to include it. By the way, if you are the same Cavalaxis I met on Flickr, you must have seen I put your Baby Pangolin picture to good use :) Leptictidium (mt) 17:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The caption of the photo of the Pangolin armor in the Threats section said it was given to George III in 1820. However, George III died in January of 1820. Is the date wrong, or could it be that it was actually given to George IV instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6017:7D:5596:6189:66DF:131 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Biome

what is the biome for a pangolin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.191.247.22 (talk) 18:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Split the article

Looking at the taxonomy section it looks like this should be split into at least, order, family and genus level articles, as there are a number of taxa at each level that are not talked about at all now, as the article is basically a genus level one right now.--Kevmin (talk) 20:32, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree, there should be a family- and an order-level article spawned off from this article, although I don't think they will be anything more than stubs for a long time, although the order article will include the full tree given in this article. Go for it. :) - UtherSRG (talk) 20:43, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Not an instrument

Yes, I know AC, I know. AC Bait (talk) 00:52, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Lead Section

Hello, as an English class project, I have added a bit more information to the lead section as well as some links to other related Wikipedia pages.Acaill6 (talk) 16:44, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Conservation and Cleanup

Hello fellow editors, I recently added a section on the issues faced by Pangolins being raised in captivity as well as adding several new citations and edits for grammar and flow into the article. If you see any issues with it, feel free to contact me. Falgaia (talk) 21:39, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi. The content looks good. One minor point, the titles of papers in journal are usually written in WP without capitals for each word (sentencecase). Happy editing. DrChrissy ^(talk) 22:08, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll be sure to keep that in mind with future page edits. Falgaia (talk) 05:05, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

@Falgaia and DrChrissy: The taxobox in this article now lists the entire family of pangolins as "critically endangered." Is this classification accurate? Jarble (talk) 18:35, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

I removed that entry from the taxobox. Assessments within the family range from Vulnerable to Critically Endangered, so no statements can be made for the clade as a whole. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 09:45, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Etymology

The following was only in the lead, and not in the body, and not sourced anywhere. Moving here per WP:PRESERVE. well-sourced content on etymology would be great.

The name pangolin comes from the Malay word "pengguling", meaning "something that rolls up". Other sources posits that it probably comes from the Serer word pangool (saints and/ancestral spirits). It is found in tropical regions throughout Africa and Asia.

-- Jytdog (talk) 06:56, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I have restored the first and last sentences, with a citation for the first one that should be sufficient. I do not know what the "other sources" referred to in the second sentence might be, so I have not restored that part. Obviously, if somebody else does, then feel free! Anaxial (talk) 19:12, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

great, thanks. i moved it to the body. Jytdog (talk) 20:58, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Behavior

Mating

If females seek out males, how do the fights between males over females happen? The citation link is broken/dead. 86.139.252.193 (talk) 12:49, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Not Nocturnal

According to Maria Diekmann, who is one of the few people who raised and cared for Pangolins, they are not nocturnal. She says most of the on-line information is incorrect. This was mentioned on the PBS Nature episode on Pangolins. BruceBarnett (talk) 16:00, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Provide a proper citation. She's not the only person to ever work with these animals, and if she contradicts the opinion of others, that doesn't necessarily mean she's right. Long-tailed pangolins are indeed active by day, but remember that other nocturnal mammals such as bats start out their lives diurnal and switch to being active at night as they grow up. Perhaps that's what's going on with her pangolins? Sumanuil (talk) 21:30, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

UPDATE: I watched the episode. She does not say they're not nocturnal, or that they don't eat termites. She says they eat more ants than termites, and that they're not nocturnal in the winter. Sumanuil (talk) 23:26, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Vandalism reverting

While I was checking the "View history" area, I noticed apparent vandalism that Cluebot NG hadn't found yet. It said things like "Pangolins are ugly". The template was stated as "Automatic taboxxxxxxxx". I reverted the changes and resumed researching. However, they had suddenly popped up on the article. I manually deleted these, but when I was forced to delete the template, all of the citations and other stuff that's hidden in the article suddenly came. If I undo the changes, the vandalism will come back. I can't leave this like it is. Can anyone help me? Nomnom121

Hi Nomnom121, you re-added some vandalism by mistake: I've reverted it. Don't worry about it, we all make mistakes. Cheers, Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 16:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Um.. It says -120 for my good faith edits when you reverted. No offense, but it may have detracted from the article.

SARS coronavirus 2 vector

Ok, I don’t doubt that this is the proper scientific name, but really. Most people have trouble getting beyond corinavirus to COVID19, let alone SARS coronavirus 2 vector. Is it really necessary to use this term A as the section title and B so many times in the text? Let’s keep it understandable and readable and, therefore, usable, eh? Boscaswell talk 06:47, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

no comments from anyone so I went ahead and changed it, re-writing the whole subsection as well as the title. Boscaswell talk 23:16, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Suggest review of The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2 to revise this section. The data cited in this section is outdated and inconsistent with the currently accurate data being published. GrantAdamCole (talk) 18:34, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

References

Conservation status rating

Shouldn't the conservation status, be one of the ones found within - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_status

What is CITES, appendix 1, this should be translated to one of the conversation statuses as listed in the above link (?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.75.106.73 (talk) 11:00, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

CITES is one of the oldest efforts to conserve species, although the IUCN red list is now generally considered more important. The IUCN red list reports assess individual species so will be in the taxoboxes of species articles, e.g. Manis crassicaudata.

I'm not sure if CITES should be used for the general pangolins article. However, the reference does list 8 species under Appendix I with the rest of the Manis species in Appendix II., so it's not totally inappropriate. —  Jts1882 | talk  11:44, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

References

what does the "†" (dagger) notation indicate?

skakEL 14:56, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

OK, I figured out that it means extinct. I added Pangolin#Notation, to make that clear to uninitiated readers. but I'm not sure if that's the convention way to do that. please adjust as necessary. skakEL 15:04, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

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Wiki Education assignment: BSC 4052 Conservation Biology

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2023 and 28 April 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zaid Alkh (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Janantayudha (talk) 15:33, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

What does the acronym TCM mean?

Mentioned in folk medicine section. When introducing an acronym, it is best to expand it when it is first mentioned. 98.97.8.243 (talk) 17:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Lifespan?

There is no mention in the article of the natural lifespan of Pangolins. 98.97.8.243 (talk) 17:51, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Is the pangolin the "only" mammal with keratin

This article for pangolins state that:
"Pangolins have large, protective keratin scales, similar in material to fingernails and toenails, covering their skin; they are the only known mammals with this feature"

Yet, in the Armadillo's page, this is said (section Characteristics, subsection skin):
"The armor is formed by plates of dermal bone covered in relatively small overlapping epidermal scales called "scutes" which are composed of keratin"

Wouldn't it be more correct to say, then, "the Armadillo is one of two only mammals" e.g. in lieu of saying it's the only mammal? MedAnisMessaoudi (talk) 00:49, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

I'd say not, because "small overlapping keratin scales... [covering plates of dermal bone]" are not the same as "large protective keratin scales... covering skin". On the wider question, obviously, all mammals have keratin, but I don't think the article currently says otherwise. Anaxial (talk) 05:04, 1 July 2024 (UTC)