Talk:Placekicker

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On 15 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Kicker (gridiron football position). The result of the discussion was not moved.

Best kickers

I'm deleting the section that was just added on the "best" NFL kickers, since a list of the best anything without a citation is an obvious NPOV issue. --djrobgordon 01:02, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

I'm not doubting the cited survey; think I heard something of it myself; but it really needs a reference. Rlquall 03:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Notable Kickers

I realize this section is inherently POV, and if someone wants to delete it, I probably wouldn't argue, but in the meantime, can we try and limit it to Hall of Famers, record holders, perennial All-Pros, etc? I don't want to be the notability Nazi, but people have been adding journeymen and NFL Europe kickers lately. Just think before you add. --djrobgordon 06:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is only one Hall of Fame kicker, even Adam Vinatieri could be counted against him, had it not been his Super Bowl titles because he is a specialist kicker (never played any other position at any point before his NFL career.203.184.56.44 09:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kicker/Punter/QB?

I heard that some kickers can be a QB,. even a dual-threat QB? I wonder if that is so. But why can't a QB be a kicker/punter as well?

They can. It's not uncommon for that to be the case on high school teams, especially at small high schools. --SodiumBenzoate 04:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

Don't we have a better pic? That one is hard to make out. --JaGa^talk 12:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Soccer style?

The description of the place kicker's action seems more like the kick of a rugby player converting a try than a soccer kick. Ozdaren (talk) 13:48, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

punters v. kickers

Are punters generally larger than placekickers, because the former is sometimes expected to be a running back or quarterback during special plays? If this is true, it should probably be mentioned on either of the place pages, because punters generally are phyiscally larger, aren't they? --Criticalthinker (talk) 05:49, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure. Kickers are getting bigger too. See Placekicker#Salary_and_team_standing.—Bagumba (talk) 06:02, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Common name should be simply kicker?

The WP:COMMONNAME for the position is kicker, so shouldn't the article be moved to reflect that? Basically every source that refers to, let's say Adam Vinatieri, simply calls him a kicker. You only really see "placekicker" in places like NFL stat books. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 11:22, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 June 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 03:18, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Placekicker → Kicker (gridiron football position) – I'm going to piggyback off the 7 year old post from @Dissident93: above. Kicker is by a large margin the more common term. Team rosters generally call them "kicker" or abbreviated to "K" per these examples: 1 2 3. Recruiting profiles use kicker here and [1]. Articles ranking all-time kickers typically use "kicker" 1 2 3. Fantasy football uses the term kicker 1 2 3. The Hall of Fame uses kicker 1 2. Heck even Madden uses kicker. Sure they are some one off places that say place kicker still like this but that article specifically was written by someone who was a scout when the common term was place kicker. Place kicker seems to dropped in usage to almost non-existent. Rockchalk7 17 00:20, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Inclined to oppose. "Placekicker" gets a significant number of normal, recent Google hits from reliable sources and satisfies WP:NATDIS. Examples: 2013 book Placekicking in the NFL: A History and Analysis, fivethirtyeight.com in 2020, Bleacher Report in 2010, Harvard Magazine in 2012. These were all found in under a minute. I don't see a compelling reason to switch to complex parenthetical disambiguation since the basic term is likely to be understood easily. Dekimasuよ! 00:41, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Based on the fact that that's the position's WP:COMMONNAME. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:24, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to "Kicker (gridiron football)" without "position" in the descriptor per nom and WP:COMMONNAME. I am opposed to "Kicker (gridiron football position)" because "position" is not needed; there is no other use for "kicker" in gridiron football outside of a person who kicks the ball. This would also match the format of Guard (gridiron football) and Center (gridiron football). Frank Anchor 15:57, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to weak oppose per Bagumba’s analysis of WP:NATURALDIS, a guideline I was previously unaware of. However, I maintain my preference for “kicker (gridiron football)” instead of “kicker (gridiron football position)” if this page is moved. Frank Anchor 13:13, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per NATURAL, although I'd probably Support kicker as I'm pretty sure it's PRIMARY.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:26, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong disagree that this is the primary topic for "kicker". It's probably more common than other individual uses but not the overwhelming likelihood necessary for a primary topic. WPscatter ^t/_c 17:17, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:NATURALDIS:
Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title.
Parenthetical disambiguation is the least preferred option (emphasis added):
Adding a disambiguating term in parentheses after the ambiguous name is Wikipedia's standard disambiguation technique when none of the other solutions lead to an optimal article title.
This is like a football sack being titled quarterback sack.—Bagumba (talk) 01:06, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Note that Kicker (gridiron football) already works fine as a redirect per {{R from predictable disambiguation}} and as a WP:PRECISE title without position.—Bagumba (talk) 10:53, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Bagumba. Placekicker is still recognizable to all, so NATURALDIS applies. From a glance at the dab page, this might be the primary topic. Srnec (talk) 02:26, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:NATDIS, overriding WP:COMMONNAME. Suggest redirecting suggested destination to this page instead. WPscatter ^t/_c 17:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per wp natural Red Slash 03:37, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.