Talk:Russian Wikipedia

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on February 18, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

[Untitled][edit]

There is a broken link underneath. Википедия:Посольство. --Bakhteiarov 13:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Question[edit]

If the Russian Wikipedia surpasses the Swedish one (and becomes the 10th largest), as will likely happen in about a week, will it replace the Swedish on the title page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kostja (talkcontribs) 19:49, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Cencorship?[edit]

If find these edits very peculiar. The user somehow did not notice that the whole article does not have external sources and is filled with questionable statements, but deleted very well known facts: (1) ru_wiki arbitration committee blocks users for their comments in external blogs; (2) ru_wiki checkusers disclose private information of the users. I do not buy the explanation of the user who censored this article ("Policies: non-notable, no non-wiki sources") because this same explanation can be used to delete pretty much everything in the article. SA ru (talk) 03:01, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Dubious poorly-sourced content[edit]

I still demand reliable secondary sources for such addition. vvvt 15:31, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom decision is reliable enough. SkyBonTalk/Contributions 15:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
It's still primary source, and "any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation". vvvt 15:52, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
I am very curious why you apply this principle very selectively to delete as "unnotable" the fact on the administrators, checkusers and arbiters who abuse power and violate Wikipedia rules? To be consistent, you should also remove all materials referenced by the following sources:
1. ^ Wikimedia Report Card August 2009 Retrieved on 2009-10-12
2. ^ Russian Wikipedia's press release on Runet Prize (November 2006)
3. ^ See Russian Wikipedia guidelines Википедия:Категоризация (Wikipedia:Categorization) and Википедия:Критерии категоризации персоналий по государственной принадлежности (Wikipedia:Criteria for categorization of people by citizenship)
4. ^ Википедия:История нашего раздела (Wikipedia:The history of our language edition)
9. ^ First currently-kept Main Page of November 7, 2002 SA ru (talk) 16:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
  • You folks ought to initiate an RfC on this article to receive some outside opinions. This issue won't resolve by itself. JamieS93 18:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

RfC: dispute over two paragraphs[edit]

There are two paragraphs in question (they can be found in article history). Are they notable enough and are they properly sourced to be included in the article? SkyBonTalk/Contributions 19:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

  • Link: paragraphs themselves. vvvt 19:44, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
  • I would suggest a more general approach. We should decide if this article is allowed to use any Wikipedia-derived information. If such information is not allowed, then 70% of the content should be removed as Wikipedia citing itself. However, if factually correct information derived from Wikipedia documents is allowed, I do not see any reason for censorship here. It is very notable that in ruwiki users are banned not for violating the rules, but for off-wiki activities (blogs, private life). I would also include examples of "collective letter" writings (or collective stalking) and some other quite notable facts. SA ru (talk) 22:59, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia should not be used as source for itself. See this for explanation why. All such information (except, may be, links to counters) shall be deleted from the article. Only information noted in newspapers/magazines/etc shall be preserved. Vlsergey (talk) 00:10, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
    That's just an essay where I could find no explanation of your position. Furthermore rules in Russian Wikipedia do not apply in English Wikipedia. Finally it'd be superb if there was some reviewer who is _not_ taking part in Russian Wikipedia. SkyBonTalk/Contributions 09:37, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
    Of course this is not a rule. This is an essay with detailed explanation and examples what will happens if the position described in essay is not taken into account. By the way, if you insist that reviewer shall not be editor of ru-wiki, you must retreat first. Along with SmartAss (SA ru) preferably. Vlsergey (talk) 09:58, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
    Well, I do insist on it and there's just no need for me and Smartass to retreat (We're not pretending to be a third party reviewer). SkyBonTalk/Contributions 10:24, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
    SmartAssociation officially is not a ruwiki editor because he/she is banned in ruwiki. Besides, you duplicated his/her suggestions. Once the article is open for editing, I will remove all information that is not confirmed by non-Wikipedia sources. SA ru (talk) 15:01, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
    It's weird to talk about yourself in 3-rd face, you know? Vlsergey (talk) 16:25, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
    I presume that by this comment you intend to state that you are the smartass here, not someone else. Well, you are entitled to think whatever you want. But please stick to the discussion topic. SA ru (talk) 21:11, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
    I think that the fact that one of editors of ru-wiki article (you = SA ru = smartass = SmartAssociation = smartass2008 = whatever) is blocked in ru-wiki is the fact that shall be noted in case this discussion is going to be on RfC. Vlsergey (talk) 21:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
    First of all, I was not even involved in that war of edits (check the edit history first, then attack). Second, I already explained to ru:user:Alex Smotrov that ad hominem arguments[1] are not such a good idea, and the drama creators like you should not be so self-confident because the drama may turn a different way from the way they planned. So, you want to mention on RfC that I was banned in ruwiki? OK. May be we should also mention that ru:user:Vlsergey did not get a sysop position because some of the users accused him of antisemitism? For your information, I do not have any particular interest in this article, and I am not even going to insert any new information. What I might do is only remove ALL information sourced by Wikipedia itself. SA ru (talk) 22:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
  • To quote WP:WEIGHT: "An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject." The fact that users can be blocked for activities external to Wikipedia might perhaps be significant enough to give it a couple of lines. However, the story of the sysop who became the live-in girlfriend of an infamous vandal and sock puppeteer has, IMHO, no encyclopedic significance whatsoever; Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid. Tetromino (talk) 18:39, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Now, please imagine this: user SkyBon decides to read the archives of English ArbCom, picks some cases that he finds interesting and then "impoves" English Wikipedia article by adding his own interpretation of each case. Let me ask you: would you need RFC to discuss that? It's obvious that all these guys have is their own opinion which they try to push into the article as a way to continue their trolling started in Russian Wikipedia. Why are we even discussing this in the first place? — AlexSm 19:35, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Please do not make personal attacks and do not accuse people in trolling. (Are you trying to say that you yourself are a great contributor to the articles content as opposed to the ones whom you accuse in trolling? If you insist we can compare the contributions.) Speaking of opinions, I do not see any opinions in the two paragraphs in question:
Paragraph1: The arbitration committee has on several occasions blocked users for behavior outside Wikipedia, for example, for critical blog comments about other Wikipedia users. In addition, an administator of the Russian Wikipedia was desysoped for being a domestic partner of vandal and for splashing one of the administrators with a glass of water at one of the Wikimeetings. Such blocks have proven to be quite controversial, and as a result, a major discussion to establish whether a user can be blocked for external behavior took place in February 2010.
Paragraph2: Some actions of the administrators have raised concerns in the community like deleting an article of indefinitely blocked user in order to rewrite it from scratch so as not to attribute him despite the broad consensus about the positive contributions by the indefinitely blocked.
I do not see any opinions here, just mere facts. Are you trying to say that any of these statements are incorrect (besides a slight error in the sequence of events in the story of ru:user:Lvova's indefinite ban)? SA ru (talk) 21:07, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Both statements are false, and you know it very well. But even if they weren't, they are not notable and there are no external reliable sources => that's it, they do not belong in the article. This discussion is pointless unless you provide the sources. P.S. You were permabanned for trolling in ruwiki by 10+ admins and then by ArbCom, so this is indeed a fact, however, I'm not trying to insert this into any article, unlike you.AlexSm 21:54, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
I agree with you that there are no external sources for this information. However, you use this argumentation only to remove very specific facts from this article and somehow do not notice that 70% of the article is based on quoting Wikipedia (just look at the reference list). The two facts are true and I know that. If you think they are not true tell exactly what is not true. Regarding my record, I simply could not get indefinitely banned in ruwiki for trolling because at the time of the ban I had been banned for several months and did not edit ruwiki. I was banned for making jokes of you guys at external sites completely unrelated with Wikipedia. Additionally, the so-called arbiters falsely attributed to me some ruwiki accounts which neither I nor any of the people who might have access to my computer have anything to do with. This is a falsification, provocation and harassment. I repeated this multiple times. If they want to argue with me, the first thing to do is to disclose to me the results of their checks. Let me see these IPs, and then we will talk. Curiously, one of the arbiters (ru:user:Андрей Романенко) is a real sockpuppet, which makes the situation even funnier. In any way, it looks like we are coming to a consensus that all information sourced only by Wikipedia should be removed from the article. Do you agree with that? SA ru (talk) 22:37, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Your excuses and futher made-up allegations have nothing to do with the article, so please just stop with the drama. Since we came to the same conclusion that those two paragraphs do not belong in the article, this discussion is over. If you want to discuss other parts of the article, please start a separate talk section. — AlexSm 23:08, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
First you want to create a drama by making ad hominem arguments[1], but then, when the drama does not go exactly the way you wanted it to go, you want to stop. OK, let's stop. This discussion is not finished, though. Other people may want to express their opinion. And we do not agree that only these two paragraphs should go. We only agree that all statements without the sources should be deleted. And I am not starting a new section on that because it is quite obvious. SA ru (talk) 23:49, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
If you read the discussion above, my arguments were notability and sources; my opinion of your real intentions could not and simply never been an "argument" here. — AlexSm 05:23, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
If your opinion of my real intentions simply never has been an argument here, why did you bring this topic? Here is my contribution to the article. Note that unlike you I was not involved in a war of edits, but simply suggested a topic for discussion. I do not see any problem in my behavior, do you? The next time you want to speak of intentions, please be more specific and stick to a concrete topic. SA ru (talk) 12:50, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
    I ask you again you not to post stuff completely unrelated to this discussion. This is not a place fot your propaganda against Russian Wikipedia and not a place to try to get you unbanned.AlexSm 23:56, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
    Noted. I deleted you insertion in my talk page because it does not belong there. SA ru (talk) 00:16, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

    Third party comments go here[edit]

    • [Remove] This is in the regular encyclopedia namespace. These items should only be included if they are noteable. Sources (such as good newspaper articles) should be added if this information should remain. --→James Kidd (contr/talk/email) 10:46, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

    Proposal[edit]

    If somebody uninvolved still feels that it's necessary to keep this can of worms open, I propose the following edit:

    The arbitration committee has on several occasions blocked users for behavior outside Wikipedia such as posting abusive comments about sysops on other sites[1]. Such blocks have proven to be quite controversial, and as a result, a major discussion to establish whether a user can be blocked for external behavior took place in February 2010.[2].--Victoria (talk) 23:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

    These comments were not necessarily abusive. SkyBonTalk/Contributions 23:58, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
    I oppose. Still no proof that those facts are notable. vvvt 10:22, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

    Proposal 2[edit]

    Here is my proposal: Do not include paras in question. Remove all wiki-sourced statements (4 out of 6 sources). SkyBonTalk/Contributions 16:42, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

    Censorship information controversy[edit]

    I have noted recent deletion of the information from the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russian_Wikipedia&action=historysubmit&diff=391233891&oldid=391207687).

    • Hermitage Capital corruption scandal. Russian Wikipedia bans links to – an anticorruption site launched by friends and relatives of late Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky, who died in Moscow prison after he was denied medical help on the orders of corrupted police officials.

    I think this information is important. Information on the Magnitsky case is censored heavily in Russian mass media. I see banning of the information site from Russian Wiki as another move of the corrupted Russian police and FSB officials. IMHO this case of censorship is important feature of Russian Wikipedia and as such should be present in the article. Stop Censorship (talk) 13:51, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

    I disagree. Right now it is your original research since you do not rely your claim on any reliable secondary source. It also fails to comply with WP:NPOV, since I hardly believe it is neutral to call putting the site into the spam blacklist "censorship". vvvt 15:19, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
    Hi, vvv.
    I may agree with you as for my statement in the discussion above (Magnitsky case, etc.). But the fact that the site www.russian-untouchables.com dedicated to Sergei Magnitsky has been banned in Russian Wiki is a self obvious one. It can be checked directly and as such do not need references. May I ask why you keep deleting this fact from the article? Stop Censorship (talk) 07:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
    Hello. I keep deleting it because it violates Wikipedia policies, i.e. WP:NPOV, WP:V and WP:OR. vvvt 17:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
    Thanks for your explanation. Let us go through these points:
    • WP:NPOV - ru.wiki bans information site directly related to an important and much discussed international topic. Ru.Wiki is unique in this sense, i.g. the site in question is cited freely in en.wiki and many other projects. That is why this fact should be mentioned in the article as per NPOV rule. Stop Censorship (talk) 14:25, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
    • WP:V - I can partly agree. The fact can be verified easily by anyone, but it takes additional actions namely trying to cite www.russian-untouchables.com in ru.wiki. To overcome this objection I can provide the ban-message in the paragraph. Will it suit you?
    • WP:OR - taking in aaccount your objections I have striped the paragraphe of all comnclusions such as mentioning censorship, etc and have retained the bare facts only.
    In lieu of conclusion: Considering that Wikipedia is based on freedom of information I see banning of an information site from a language project as an important feature of the latter. If you desagree I propose to apply for a Third Opinion as per rules of resolving disputes. Stop Censorship (talk) 15:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

    It has surpassed Portuguese and Dutch Wikipedias[edit]

    As of March 1th. 2011, it has surpassed Portuguese and Dutch Wikipedias. It must be written in this article--Noder4 (talk) 17:10, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

    Already mentioned since February 25th. --illythr (talk) 19:16, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

    References[edit]

    Million pages[edit]

    Lui (2013-05-11), Why Wikipedia's Millionth Russian Page Is Worth Celebrating, archived from the original on 2013-05-15, retrieved 2013-05-15 --Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 09:59, 24 December 2013 (UTC)