Talk:School segregation in the United States

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Hey all—I know at least one of y'all are working on this page for an assignment. I just wanted to offer my assistance if you have any questions about Wikipedia or structuring your future edits to mesh with the rest of the encyclopedia. (E.g., I'd be happy to take a look at an outline for where you want to go with the article.) Take care I am watching this page for the near future—no need to whisperback czar  13:38, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello! I am working on this page for an assignment in a Poverty, Justice, and Human Capabilities course at Rice University. I'll be adding more to the article over the next week, and I would greatly appreciate any feedback you have to give. Specifically, I will be adding an "Effects" section to the article, with subtopics in "Educational outcomes" and "social wellbeing." I will also add a "Policy proposals and controversies" section. I'm eventually going to flesh out the history section a little more, too, but for the moment my main focus is on issues of contemporary segregation. Thanks! Sallyhc42 (talk) 20:10, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
@Sallyhc42: I'd consider how you want to handle history of the discourse versus history of the phenomenon, for the present info. I'm not sure "Effects" would be the most encyclopedic term, but we can address that later (maybe something like "findings" unless causality is established). I wouldn't worry about subtopics until the section gets long enough where it needs to be split. For your recent edits, be sure to mark any content edits as non-minor edit and I thought the dates of the studies (recently removed) helped put the findings in perspective. Let me know if I can help with anything czar  20:49, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Scope and duration[edit]

Note that in parts of Texas, schools were segregated three ways: 'white', 'colored' (African-American), and 'Mexican' (Mexican-American). This 'three-way segregation' may have existed in other southwestern US states, as well. De facto school segregation in some places in Texas lasted well past Brown vs. Board of Education, into even the 1970s... A 'fourth dimension' of school segregation in the US involved the separate and forced education of Native American children in 'Indian schools'. Regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 09:27, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

P.S. Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas usually are referred to as part of the US southwest. Missouri, as part of the midwest. Right? Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 09:36, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Peer Review[edit]

This article is in very good shape right now. The sourcing, formatting, and readability is all almost perfect, so the focus at this point should be on adding more content. Adding specific causal theories to the Sources of contemporary segregation section would balance the studies that you already have in a more theoretical way, which is what this article needs at the moment. The other major area that could use expanding is the Implications of segregation section, which is currently limited to just education and social well being. Many more topic areas (economic, health, employment, etc.) could be explored here, and it would add greatly to the quality of the article. While further work could be done with adding images and footnotes, the article is looking good enough to where the main edits should simply be adding more content. DerekHolliday (talk) 03:06, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Peer Review 2[edit]

This article has a very well organized structure and each paragraph has a clear leading sentence. The content is well written and easy to follow. The statistics are the latest and reliable references are used. Expansion of some subtopics might be helpful to further address this topic (the examples noted by Derek can be considered). More in-text links and more pictures can be added to this article. In addition, there are many direct quotes in the entry and it would better to summarize some of them (see Wikipedia:Quotations) and there are two sentences not sourced. Overall, this article is really well edited.(Feihuamengxue (talk) 05:04, 7 November 2013 (UTC))

Proposed revisions[edit]

I am considering revising this page, particularly the sections on proposed policies and the history of segregation. Rjpg12 (talk) 20:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm interested in adding a bit of information on the varied experiences of school segregation for different ethnic groups in the United States, such as Mexican Americans, suggestions as to what subheading might best benefit from this information are welcomed. Jordantoni UCSD (talk) 17:25, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
1)One aspect of school segregation in the United States that lacks discussion here is the effort made by public and private actors to challenge segregation, at least at the communal level. There isn't bias directed towards presentation of governmental action but the page lacks information on the actions of interest groups to reduce, or at least challenge the practice of segregation. Information on campaigns by the NAACP, for instance, could shed light on the community perspectives and initiatives that led to enrollment of black students in parts of the country prior to federal involvement.
2)Evidence that compares and contrasts the effect segregation had on different minority student populations might also greatly benefit the article as it currently discusses the implication in a largely black-white binary framework which centers on the impacts of black students. Though not without profound impacts on the current social and educational structures that exist for black students in the United States, including other non-black minority students in the discussion could present different perspectives for citing literature that presented solutions for segregation in the past.
3)The different evidence used and the claims presented here thus far are nonetheless neutral and consider the political attitudes during the time that determined the outcome of segregation. It is worth noting that the inclusion of contemporary educational segregation is very important to this article because it contextualizes segregation as a result of numerous socio-economic and historical conditions such as those outlined and cited here. Delving more into primary accounts and including discussion on the intersections of identity, such as wealth and citizenship, would provide a more accurate picture of the driving force behind school segregation.-Jordantoni UCSD (talk) 03:31, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

This Article Should Be Deleted or Substantially Rewritten[edit]

The article contends that de jure school segregation first occurred in the South after Reconstruction. That is demonstrably false, and no article should be permitted to misstate history and thereby libel an entire region of the country. An early example of de jure segregation is found in Massachusetts, in which the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts held that the City of Boston was within its rights to require black students to attend separate schools. See Roberts v. City of Boston. Assuming that there needs to be an article on this subject, it needs to be based on the facts and a proper premise.John Paul Parks (talk) 15:50, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Point of View Tag; Factual Accuracy Disputed Tag[edit]

The article states that de jure school segregation began in the South following the end of Reconstruction. That is absolute nonsense. An early example of legally-required school segregation was found in the City of Boston. In 1850, the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts held that there was no problem requiring school students in Boston to be segregated by race. See Roberts v. City of Boston.

This entire article needs to be deleted or substantially rewritten.John Paul Parks (talk) 15:44, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I removed the request that the article be deleted. Factual inaccuracies are not a valid reason for deleting an article. The sentence to which you object, which has a source, doesn't say that the first example of school segregation was in the post-Reconstruction South. It says that formal segregation by race began there. Boston may have had a segregated school in 1850, but as far as I know, most of the city was not segregated. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 15:27, 3 July 2017 (UTC)