Talk:Scrapple

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Scrapple vs. haggis[edit]

Some Philaldephia friends of mine were scandalized by my comparison of scrapple to haggis, but I know what's in each, I've had both quite a but of both, prepared locally (i.e., in PA and Scotland) and they are, erm, "kissing cousins." Cecropia 07:16, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

As a Philadelphian, I must say, this stuff is great. I don't know about haggis but I'd be open to trying it. It's the weirdest thing the way scrapple disappears from supermarkets as soon as you leave this area, though Dirk Gently 02:31, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think the problem is that Scrapple is perishable and doesn't sell fast enough outside Philly. You can often find Park's brand in New York City and Long Island, but it is usually frozen. -- Cecropia | Talk 02:44, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Oh. Well, I'll just have to freeze a lot of scrapple before I leave in the fall, then. Thanks. Dirk Gently 01:49, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ah yes, this PA delicacy was one of the products of the Church Farm School that was sold to the public along with milk and eggs when I attended it back in the 60s. I've never seen it in a grocery store anywhere. I'm glad it's still produced and enjoyed. Tom Cod

Scrapple freezes well (though the faster the better). It's pretty indestructible. But once you thaw it you have to use the whole thing. Like many other foods refreezing makes it mushy. -- Cecropia | Talk 03:00, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'm definitely going to have to try it. Funnily enough, it's quite easy to get good locally made haggis in Calgary but scrapple seems to be a bit thinner on the ground. -- Derek Ross | Talk 04:39, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I've heard of the comparison with haggis too. My understanding is that haggis is basically offal and oatmeal (stuffed into a stomach or something?), while scrapple is offal and cornmeal, not too big a stretch in my mind: both are offal and cereal. You have to admit, there aren't too many things that are like scrapple at all, and haggis seems like the closest, though there is probably no real connection between the two. BillFlis 00:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Add to that scrapple's ancestor the Panhas, which traditionally uses buckwheat or barley meal and different spices such as a prominent dash of allspice. Add also balkenbrij, the name of which indicates it was Rhinelanders and not Dutch (except maybe Limburger/Gelderlander) who invented scrapple.
Balkenbrij and Panhas try to incorporate chunks of meat and/or fat; the former uses a special spice mixture which contains much SE Asian stuff (back from the VOC days) and licorice root and the latter usually contains pork blood, basically a pan-cooked Blutwurst.
So we're talking about basically variations of a common theme here, but each one is distinct enough to make it a dish in its own right. Dysmorodrepanis 13:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Scrapple is also similar to goetta, in addition to haggis and the other foods mentioned in the article. Most of these savory puddings are linked in the pudding article -- perhaps it would be best to note that scrapple is a member of the pudding family and link back to that topic.71.67.105.124 (talk) 18:27, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm working on a novel set among sailors in the early 19C, and when haggis is mentioned, I added this footnote (should this great work of literature ever be submitted to an editor): "Most farming cultures have at least one “meat” dish made from scraps and “by-products”. In the US, scrapple is such a dish. Haggis is way of making a sausage or “pudding” (boiled-in-a-bag food) from the parts of the sheep (such as the lungs) that would otherwise be inedible." The Pudding article does not mention that such concoctions exist to make "edible" the parts of the animal that would otherwise not be particularly appealing. It would also be interesting to discuss the nutritional composition of such dishes, as the combine body parts that provide little nutrition (the heart) and are of high nutrition (the liver). WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 12:19, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with including "meatloaf" in the list of scrapple similarities as on the Wiki page. Meatloaf consists mainly of regular ground meat. not scraps and/or ofal, and has no characteristics of scrapple, a type of mush, other than possibly its shape (although meatloaf is usually shaped by hand while scrapple is molded). The scrapple I grew up with differs from the authentic Scottish haggis I have eaten because of spices -- scrapple has a distinct spicy flavor enhanced by the frying, while haggis tends to be oatmealy in flavor and looks boiled. I use 12 spices in my recipe for scrapple (I am from a Pennsylvania Dutch, York,PA. ancestry) which seems rare in that most published recipes I have found use salt & pepper, sometimes sage or one other spice. Mine. as well as several local Philadelphia area brands my friends and I use, is much more flavorful, the spices overriding the original blandness of cornmeal, buckwheat, and boiled pork. Mine is best with fried eggs, maple syrup, and catsup in sandwiches.

I shouldn't do this, but I'd love the recipe, if you would, click on my talk page, there's an email button on the left hand side. Sounds like what I want. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 19:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't believe haggis is made with cornmeal. I know scrapple is not made with oats.Nitpyck (talk) 19:39, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Scrapple in other regions[edit]

We have scrapple in Maryland too, I remember many a morning as a kid waking up to this stuff.. crispy on the outside, soft on the inside! Spotted it in Delaware too. I live in California now, nobody here has ever heard of the stuff.

Do you drown it in syrup? Or ketchup? That's the way my inlaws like it, but I eat it naked. -- Cecropia | Talk 21:24, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I grew up in Delaware, where this stuff was always available at any supermarket. The traditional way to have in my family was fried, then topped with apple butter. Personally, I've always just seen it as the Mid-Atlantic's contribution to the "people actually eat that?" category of foods. I remember checking the ingredients list of one of our finer Delaware-made brands, which included things like pig lips, snout, etc. Yum! RobLinwood 15:34, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm a Pennsylvania native now in California. You can find frozen Scrapple at some larger Ralphs. Strangely, it's not in the frozen foods section, but frozen in the meat section. I've also made it quite a few times, and it turns out very well, but I've yet to quite get the same spice mix as "store bought" so it does taste a little different. David Hoag 08:55, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
My Dad used to make scrapple about once a month. I grew up in Decatur, GA but he was from Washington, D.C. His mother lived in Conshocken, PA and learned to make it there. While my Father used pork sausage, water, and cornmeal; His Mother used the whole hogs head. It's great with fried eggs and grits. Kit Redmond

My loves, I am pleasd to report that here in the San Francisco Bay Area, Scrapple is available at Safeway in the frozen section. My family is from Philadelphia, but I was born out here on the west coast, and while nobody seems to know about it, including the very staff of Safeway, it's certainly there for the getting. I have converted all of my friends! Hooray for Scrapple! The Habbersett brand's website tells of other locations where frozen Scrapple is available, but I noticed that they really only list the regional distribution location (so California Safeway stores comes up as "Tracy, California" on the list). Incidentally, I enjoy it with ketchup, and it's as good for dinner as it is for breakfast. -Heather Keenan, Novato, CA

Safeway extends even further from Pennsylvania than California, of course. Habersett's is available at Safeway stores all the way out here in Hawaii! I'll probably have to update the page to list Hawaii instead of California... sorry, Californians! Dan 11:15, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I grew up in Maryland. Lived there for 25 years. I never even hear the word scrapple until after I moved away, much less seen it, and obviously never ate it. Go figure... -David Williams, Charleston, SC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.29.80 (talk) 02:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Scrapple is also available in north central North Carolina. This is home to Salem[1] and a large Moravian community. They moved into the region in the mid 18th century. Many common dishes here show the Germanic influences brought with the Church. Scrapple is commonly found in supermarkets and usually found under the Neese's brand. This is a famous local sausage maker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingalin (talkcontribs) 15:21, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Pon Hoss?[edit]

Can anybody take a stab in the dark as to the etymology of the word "Pon Hoss"? (Another word for Scrapple.) Also, how do you pronounce the "Pon"?

From the German Panhas ("pan rabbit") which is the "father" of scrapple. Pon, I'd guess, somewhere between English "pan" and "porn". It's an open/open mid back vowel.Dysmorodrepanis 13:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I love scrapple; my family here in RI makes it by combining it with scrambled eggs, with toast. My dad likes it on his toast with jam. I like it plain with scrambled eggs. Quite delicious. In response to the above question: I think it's spelled "Haas" not "hoss", and I think it's Dutch, since scrapple is thought to originate in Philadelphia. Energyturtle 23:40, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, the Pennsylvania Dutch come from Germany, so, for our purposes I doubt it would be spelled "Haas". This said Panhas is a Westphalian dish which did make its way to Eastern Netherlands. If anyone wants to know more about this grandfather of our PA Dutch delicacy (and if you speak German) check out this link. Aufs klo 18:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Why do you say that about the spelling? There are many regional dialects in German-speaking parts of Europe, and if anything they would have been much stronger around the time when the PA Dutch/Amish-Mennonites left the area. Simply because it's not spelled "Hase" doesn't mean it's not "German" somehow. Historian932 (talk) 15:48, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record, in central PA (Jersey Shore area), my family always called it (as I imagined it spelled) "ponhaus"; "scrapple" was mentioned as poor terminological substitute ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.75.149 (talk) 14:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

What exactly is scrapple?[edit]

Articles should lead with a good, clear definition, and I think the word "food", recently added, is a little weak. I had "cornmeal mush ...", and yeah, I know "flour, usually buckwheat flour" is often added (good addition!), so maybe cornmeal shouldn't be the first ingredient mentioned. But my American Heritage Dictionary has this: "A mush of ground pork and cornmeal that is set in a mold and then sliced and fried." A different edition online here has the same. So how about we put "mush" back in for "food" and leave the mention of cornmeal till later where it is? I also had "savory" in there too, recently deleted; I meant it not as "appetizing" but in its alternate definition of "Piquant, pungent, or salty to the taste; not sweet", which is used to describe many meat dishes. I'd say that plain old cornmeal mush is not savory in this sense, but that scrapple is; I think it's a useful distinction. Hey, scrapple might be the hardest thing to describe to someone who's never tried it!--BillFlis 21:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

My own concise definition of "scrapple" is "a mixture of cornmeal mush and pork brains, strongly spiced with red pepper and black pepper, normally sliced and fried as an accompaniment to fried or scrambled eggs for breakfast." I have heard "headcheese" as a synonym in some areas.
My uncle calls it "everything but the oink". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.239.45.4 (talk) 22:10, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
The word "scrapple" is both (1) an noun primarily referring to the Pennsylvania and Delaware German solidified pork mush, and (2) has come to be the generic name of any cooked, solidified cereal grain mush to which meat, vegetables, or any combination of the two has been added.
For an East coast type of scrapple, pork broth made from boiled meat scraps set aside during the butchering of pigs and/or hogs, and from the lips, tongue, cheek meat, liver and heart of the butchered animal (pork brains are never used in an East Coast scrapple).  For an East coast scrapple, the mush is made wholly or in combination with the cereal grains buckwheat, cornmeal, and wheat, ranging from 100% of any one of those single cereal grains, or a 50%-50% combination of two of the cereal grains (generally buckwheat and cornmeal), and occasionally with all three cereal grains in a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 combination.  Pennsylvania German scrapples generally differ from Delaware Dutch scrapples in that the Delaware variety uses wheat as the primary cereal grain, whereas in the eastern Pennsylvania variety cornmeal is the more predominant cereal grain.  In central and western Pennsylvania scrapples buckwheat is the more predominant grain, most often in combination with cornmeal, infrequently as the sole cereal grain in those scrapples.
The East coast type of North American scrapples are made and can be found in regions of the United States and Canada where there are relatively large Mennonite and Amish communities.  Outside of Mennonite and Amish communities, scrapples go by different names.  "Pon Haus", a North German type of scrapple, can be found in German communities in Wisconsin and Ohio. In the southern United States scrapples are commonly only made with cornmeal as the cereal grain.  Likewise, scrapples made in Italy are made with polenta (finely ground corn meal) as the cereal grain.  In the chestnut (castagna) growing regions of northern Italy, you can find polenta being combined with fine chestnut flour to make a sweet polenta mush.
Scrapples are made in virtually every country where pork is a staple and common food product, and where cereal grains similar to wheat, rye, oats, buckwheat and corn are grown and/or readily available in the local markets.  Scrapples have been made throughout the world literally for thousands of years.

K. Kellogg-Smith (talk) 02:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Dutch connection[edit]

Everybody knows that scrapple is associated with the Pennsylvania Dutch. However, Habbersett's website (see External Links) says that it was invented by "Dutch", adding "who sailed from Holland," apparently in emphasis that they were not "Pennsylvania Dutch", which is to say, "actually from Germany" (Deutsch). The Habbersett's article also says it was invented in Chester County, not Lancaster County, which is most associated with the PD. Can anyone point to a reference, and I mean a really authoritative one, that this was not the case? What I'm asking is: is it a sort of urban legend that the Pennsylvania Dutch invented scrapple?--BillFlis 10:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

See above (Scrapple vs haggis); terms like "pawn hoss" clearly point at a Rhineland/Westphalian connection; certainly not Holland (i.e. NW Netherlands). Dysmorodrepanis 13:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but I don't follow your logic here. Outside PD Country, it's almost universally called "scrapple", not "pawn hoss"; I buy scrapple all the time and I've never seen "pawn hoss" or whatever printed anywhere on the package, even from manufacturers in PD Country. So the PD call it by a German name--that doesn't mean they invented it. Also, the Balkenbrij article actually refers to scrapple as being from New England!--BillFlis 12:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I very recently bought some scrapple, in Hamburg, PA, that was labeled "pon hass". Also, I have one of the Foxfire books (about Southern Appalachia, in Georgia) that uses a similar term for what is clearly scrapple.--BillFlis (talk) 19:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
The reference to Dutch colonist is incorrect, it should read Pennsylvania Dutch. Deutsch, pronounced like Dutch, is the German word for German--24.144.220.63
I know all about the ethnic history, but the true Dutch, from Holland, were in Pennsylvania long before the "Pennsylvania Dutch". Can you find a reference that you would agree is correct and authoritative?--BillFlis (talk) 19:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Generally speaking, were not the "true Dutch" mainly in New York not Pennsylvania? If anything the first Europeans in numbers in the area were the Swedes, in the Philadelphia/Delaware region, supposedly. Historian932 (talk) 15:53, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

The webpage note 11 references is no longer available. Nitpyck (talk) 19:43, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

German or Dutch[edit]

I see my change of May 2009 has been reversed. You wanted a source indicating that scrapple is German. Here is a copy of a text from 1869 on the subject. http://www.archive.org/stream/pennsylvaniadutc00gibbiala/pennsylvaniadutc00gibbiala_djvu.txt Kevinm1984 (talk) 20:09, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The 181 page book "Pennsylvania Dutch" (published in 1872) that you provided a link to is absolutely fascinating reading.  In my opinion it is required reading for anyone at all interested in a detailed, up close and personal insight and reference to Amish/Mennonite history, and their life in America up until the date the book was published.  On pages 45-46 the author provides us with a brief, ballpark description of the difference between 'scrapple' and 'pawn-haus'.  Panhas is certainly German in origin; the recipe and cooking instructions are in "Praktishes Kochbuch für die Deuteschen in Amerika" (Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 1879), pages 357 and 87 respectively.  However, it's entirely possible that the term "scrabble" is a derivative of the Dutch verb "schrappen", which means to scrape, cut, or chop. When used in the context of butchering, the cutting and scraping in the deboning operation would generate small pieces, or "scrapes"/"scraps", of meat. Keep in mind also that in Dutch 'sch__' is pronounced as 'sk__', as in "school" and "schedule". So "schrappen" would be pronounced as "skrappen", not "shroppen" as it might seemto anyone not familiar with the language.  And it's very clear from your reference that the Mennonites spent a considerable length of time in the relative safety of Holland after they fled Germany (and Switzerland) before Wm. Penn was able to start bringing them to America.  And they also passed through Dutch Delaware on their way to their lands in Lancaster County.  In my opinion, attributing the source of the word "scrapple" to the Pennsylvania Germans is incorrect; they use/used the word, but they didn't invent it.  Besides that, the word certainly isn't unique; the Oxford English Dictionary has a 1354 AD entry referencing the word "scrapple" to 'scraping', and an 1825 AD reference (and subsequent entries) referencing "scrapple" as meaning to rake or scrape.  And for another thing, scrapple-like cooked cereal with meat in a mush combinations were not 'invented' in Germany; that combination is commonly found in foods of many other countries.  Thanks again for your very fine link. K. Kellogg-Smith (talk) 06:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

See Also Section[edit]

Unless the food contains at least some of the two main ingredients (cornmeal and pork scraps)it probably shouldn't be included. Nitpyck (talk) 19:08, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Or at least meat and grain. Boudin is just sausage, isn't it? No grain?

Canned Scrapple[edit]

When I was young Scrapple was available in canned form, though I haven't seen it on the shelf in years and can't find any current makers. It tasted OK (for Scrapple) but looked uncomfortably like canned dog food. Saxophobia (talk) 14:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Moving hidden note here[edit]

"the Habbersett's page says "Dutch ... from Holland". Please do not change to "German"... user-added note: the Pennsylvania Dutch were mostly from Germany and Switzerland but also from "the Low Countries" which does include modern Holland. Added-added note: not "Pennsylvania Dutch", they were real Dutch from HOLLAND; see article on New Netherland; the Pennsylvania Dutch came much later; added-added-added note: the Habbersett link is no longer there; I believe it was wrong to refer to the "Dutch ... from Holland," as scrapple has always been a German "Pennsylvania Deutsch" recipe and the Germans who settled in PA were mostly from the southwest of Germany and/or Switzerland"

Why are we using the Habbersett page as a source in any case? Not only does it not work, it doesn't meet our criteria at WP:RS. We should be using sources such as [1] (The Oxford Companion to American Food and Drink), [2] Dougweller (talk) 21:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

A "meat-and-grain sausage" or "meat-and-grain mush"?[edit]

I'm wondering if the lede needs to be clearer, and if saying Scrapple is a type of meat-and-grain sausage or meat-and-grain mush would be more clear than describing it simply as a mush? It's like goetta and haggis -- unique in that they're all ground- or scrap-meat and grain combinations that are deliberate dish-of-poverty substitutes for sausage. I think this should be maybe the first step in describing it to people who don't know what it is? valereee (talk) 10:44, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Name origin[edit]

I had long assumed that the name was based on it being composed largely of pork scraps. However, this New York Times article seems to say differently: "WHEN the future Edward VII, then the Prince of Wales, visited this staid old city in 1860, he had a little trouble getting his bearings. During his stay, he reported later, 'I met a very large and interesting family named Scrapple, and I discovered a rather delicious native food that they call biddle.'"

While I shudder at anything calling scrapple "delicious", the source is otherwise reliable and adds "biddle" to the list of alternate names and implies that the name came from the family. However, the story is reminiscent of a guy I met, named "_______ Broccoli", who claimed that his great grandfather was the first person to sell broccoli in his town and the locals began calling it broccoli based on his name. (Broccolo means "cabbage flower", a rather unlikely coincidence.)

Thoughts, comments, sources, hints and allegations are welcome. - SummerPhDv2.0 14:41, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

I resemble your attack on scrapple! It is indeed delicious, especially when served with grape jelly or maple syrup. Seriously. And I'm usually not fond of this sort of thing. Maybe you've had bad scrapple. Back to biddle though. It's discussed in this university press book which calls it the hoariest of Philadelphia jokes. The point is that it is "Biddle" that is the family name, not scrapple. See also[3] which confirms this. And here is a 1907 memoir by Ellen Biddle[4] where she tells the cook how to make scrapple.[5] Doug Weller talk 15:04, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Looking a bit more closely at the source I cited, it does clarify this in the next paragraph, albeit in high-falutin' New York City talk that a simple Philadelphian, such as myself, can scarcely be expected to understand on a Monday morning. (That said: Butcher a hog. Sell what you can to city folk. Grind the rest with some corn, feed it to your family and hope for higher pork prices next week. No one grinds bacon and pork loin with corn to hide what it is.) - SummerPhDv2.0 15:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
I've had it twice here. Lucky you being able to go to the Reading Terminal Market regularly. Doug Weller talk 15:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
I've had it throughout the area. Traveling the area and having scrapple is a lot like traveling through Mexico and having dysentery, but not as pleasant.
I've thought of expanding this article a bit with some of the closely related "foods": pan pudding, liver sausage, blood sausage and such, but I'm not really seeing many reliable sources delving into the waste-not-want-not foods of the region. I think we've got a big intersection between those and starvation foods. Basically because some of these foods really must have had some motivation other than flavor behind their popularity. - SummerPhDv2.0 16:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

hog's head?[edit]

If the entire head is used, then can one contract CJD from eating it?

66.82.144.144 (talk) 10:27, 7 September 2016 (UTC)