Talk:Torque (game engine)
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- 1 Retired?
- 2 Xbox Live Arcade
- 3 TDN comment
- 4 Marketing section
- 5 Bought It - Hoping to Learn
- 6 re:
- 7 Article sucks
- 8 Too many in list
- 9 PICTURES!!!!!
- 10 Possible error
- 11 Torque X Documentation Comment
- 12 Modified Documentation Section
- 13 Poor Quality and Citations in "Strengths and Weaknesses"
- 14 Merged with TGEA
- 15 Torque 3D
As far as I can tell, this software has now been retied. No mention of it can be found on the GarageGames website, with only TGEA being available. If others can confirm this, the article should be updated to reflect this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 22:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- The product is still available http://www.garagegames.com/products/tge. The engine is no longer the flagship tech for GarageGames. The focus is now on TGEA, and soon Torque 3D. No further updates will be made to Torque Game Engine. GameDevMich (talk) 00:31, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree, this article does not accurately reflect the status of Torque as a game engine and needs rewritten, it's an out of date reference to TGEA which has been updated inaccuretely. The current version is called Torque3d and is still available and in development, Torque Game Engine is still available and supported but not under development. Torque3d is now being developed under an open Source licence.--Chuangzu (talk) 15:33, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Xbox Live Arcade
Anyway to find out which of the Xbox Live Arcade games have been and are being developed via the Torque Shader Engine?
- The best place to find this information would be Garage Games itself. They have forums that are open to anyone. Just ask there--I'm sure they'd be thrilled to tell you. — Frecklefoot | Talk 00:06, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Is it just me, or does this page really seem like it's too much of an advertisement? —Gremagor 00:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
- In what way Gremagor? Is there any area in particular that you object to? To me it seems pretty NPOV. Perhaps there is a lack of a "criticism" section, but I am not aware of any major criticisms of the engine. I know that some people had issues with the state of the engine's documentation, but that seems to have been addressed by GarageGames over the last few months.
- The engine has many documented shortcomings. See http://www.devmaster.net/forums/showpost.php?p=33700&postcount=13 for a recent example. My objection to this article is that it just lists feature after feature without any balancing statements about the well-known limitations of the engine. I'm also a bit unsure that the amount of text dedicated to the pricing of the engine is appropriate—this isn't a shopping center—readers can go to the GarageGames website to get that information.
- Well one of the things which sets this engine apart from others is it's price. It is not a free open source engine (like say Ogre), but it is also no where near as expensive as the Unreal or the Source engines. So perhaps something should be said about its low price relative to other engines, without mentioning any specific amounts. As for the poor documentation - something could be added to the article alright. Also, that link also reminded me of another common criticism of the engine - the poor OpenAL sound support, that's another thing which could be added. It's hard to know what kind of refereneces to use though, that's the problem. Referencing to blogs/forums is not usually considered adequate. Has there been any semi-"official" reviews of the Torque engine? Keithmahoney 05:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that it's probably worth mentioning that the price makes the engine accessible to independent developers, but we don't need all the details of the pricing structure spelled out. Besides, there are many engines that fall into the low-price category, so Torque isn't really unique in that way. Also I would hardly consider Torque to be in the same league as Unreal or Source. As for reviews, I think the only independent "official" reviews are on DevMaster at http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine_details.php?id=3, but many of them are extremely biased. A Google search turned up a few more, but they were somewhat dated. — Gremagor 09:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I feel the TDN comment under the "Shortcomings" (which should be renamed to Limitations) for documentation "GarageGames has made efforts to mitigate this by creating the largely community driven Torque Developer Network  (or the TDN for short) to serve as a documentation for its products. However, the TDN is a wiki and as such, is subject to vandalism, incomplete pages, and inconsistent formatting." is false. The TDN is only acessible to owners of the Torque engine and nobody would pay $100 purely just to vandalize a wiki (anonymous edits and page creations aren't allowed). The inconsistant formatting comment, however, is true. It be reworded to something along the lines of "GarageGames has made efforts to implement a custom community-driven Wiki system, the Torque Developer Network  (or the TDN for short), to serve as basic documentation for its products. However, the TDN as a wiki is subject to unfinished/incomprehensive articles and inconsistent formatting."--Mincetro 07:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Torque's low price tends to attract a lot of people who aren't very mature and because of that, there are users who will still vandalize the wiki. I am not personally an owner of TGE but I have a friend who works with it often and knows specific people who have frequently vandalized the board. The people are ususally aged 12 or younger. It's really amazing that people who pay $100 for the privielege to go to that wiki will still vandalize it. Ayavaron 06:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
"Some game developers feel like TGE is marketed in a dishonest way. The TGE product page  is said to lead potential users into believing that TGE is a product suited for beginners without a lot of programming experience or skill while some users believe that it is only useful if you are already an adept programmer." This paragraph is full of weasel words. Furthermore, there is nothing on the TGE Product page which indicates that it is a suitable product for non-programmers. Keithmahoney 22:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
- I have removed this section now that a week has passed with no objections. Keithmahoney 00:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- |Yea, I did write that kind of weaselly and you make a good point. I think I was overeager to trash on it at that point. Removal agreed to even though it's well after the fact. Ayavaron 22:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Bought It - Hoping to Learn
I would just like to comment as a recent purchaser of TGE, and hopefully this this can help possible future consumers of TGE. I consider myself more than adept in computer skills. I have taken classes in college and am always tinkering with my computer in some way or another. I do not know to program. I have done a minimal amount of BASIC. Even that was gratifying. So when this whole microsoft XNA thing came out, I decided to give myself time for learning to program and create a game, even if it would take a few years. Upon researching, I realized that creating a game from the ground up is really kind of a futile effort, especially for a beginning programmer. You need some king of engine to modify, so alot of the tedious, deeply scientific work is done for you. You can focus on objects, physics, lighting, gameplay, etc... The fun part, right? Torque easily seemed like the best option right away. It bragged quick development times, compatibilty with XNA, C#, which is another "quick development tool". Best of all, I thought, It has thousands of pages of documentation. I'm the kind of guy that can do anything, especially a good tutorial.
SO, I bought Torque. What did I get? I DONT KNOW!!! As a beginner is has been frustrating, because I don't even know where to start! The tutorials haven't worked for me yet, and I have spent time on them... Alot of times, I'll click on a promising looking tutorial, only to find an empty page, like TorQue is waiting for someone to magically finsh it. I dont know how to use it with XNA, or my new C# express. I've also noticed that veteran programmers are kind of snoddy to newcomers in this field. We are not stupid, just eager to learn. Just answer the question, then maybe one day we will answer it for someone else. There are alot of complaints on Torque, but me, I dont know what to complain about. But for the love of god, Torque, at least help me learn, like you said you would. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs)
- I'm one of those "veteran programmers [that] are kind of snoddy to newcomers in" game programming. I haven't purchased or used Torque, but I can't beleive that someone who hasn't programmed extensively would attempt such an undertaking to learn programming as they developed a game using a cutting-edge game engine. What's wrong with starting small with a "Hello World!" program? Goodness sake, C++ is hard enough without trying to decipher someone else's code (a hard task in itself) and then trying to figure out how to add new features.
- I don't know what GarageGames promises outside of a game engine, but I suspect anything it delivers beyond that is pure gravy. So, any documentation you get in addition to the engine is provided as a bonus, and isn't always going to be complete.
- Also, it's compatability with C# is probably only through data files or COM. You're probably better off sticking to the native C++ code.
- Another thing, it doesn't sound like you're using cutting-edge tools (C# Express). I'm pretty certain you're going to have to own a fairly late version of Visual Studio in order to edit & compile any code. No, it's not cheap, but who said game development is easy?
- Anticipated question: "But how am I going to learn?" That's easy, learn C++ first before trying to develop a full-blown 3D game. You sound like you have the interest, so you may very well have the aptitude. Get a beginning book on C++ (or C#, which is a good language, but very similar to C++). Work through it. Develop simple, command-line programs and games. Then move up to 2D graphics. After creating a few games that way, then you might be able to move up to 3D.
- I don't think Torque promises to making game development easy, they just promise to make it easier. HTH — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- First of all: You do not need to be able to program C++ to create a game with TGE (though it helps). You need to be able to write C++ and compile it if you want to make changes to the engine. If the "out-of-box" version of TGE is adequate for your needs you will be fine (you will be limited with what you can acheieve however). Second of all; the easiest way to get started with TGE is to buy 3D Game Programming All In One by Kenneth Finney. It covers all aspects of game development, not just "programming" but also 3d modelling, textures, sound, etc. There is loads of documentation on the garage games website, but it is very patchy and quite unorganised, and not suitable for a complete newbie to game development. I hope that you realise that creating a game will be no easy task by any means. But Finney's book should at least point you in the right direction. Keithmahoney 20:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you guys so much for the responses. I have been able to figure a few things out, little by little, and every new discovery brings inspiration and hope to my learning experience. I also feel a lot better about my purchase of TGE. I am finding that right now, the most crucial aspect is gaining a basic understanding of OOP, because, no matter what I use; Script, C++, or C#, it is the fundimental basis of game programming.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs)
- Exactly, which is kinda why I suggested learning programming before diving into creating a game. But if you can learn why creating a game, more power to you. :-)
- In the future, please sign your posts. You can do this with 3 or 4 tildes. Instructions are included at the bottom of every edit page. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
- That's a problem for many articles here at the 'pedia. What start out as good articles sometimes become trashed by well-meaning, but ill experienced editors. I just took a look at the current state of the article and it looks like somewhere over the last dozen edits, it got trashed. I restored it to a previous un-trashed version. — Frecklefoot | Talk 12:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Too many in list
The list of games made with the Torque engine is supposed to be just a list of some examples, yet it is long and most of the entries are red. Shouldn't we trim the list down to notable games made by Torque? Should there even be a list at all? I think ideally we would have a single sentence, integrated into the main text, which cites maybe a handful (3 or 4) notable Torque games. -- Solberg 01:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)Solberg
- I agree. Make it so! — Frecklefoot | Talk 13:27, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- Done. Killed all the red entries and moved 4 of the blue ones to a brief mention in the intro. Notability judgments were based on critical reception and number of Indie game and other types of awards mentioned in the existing articles. -- Solberg 08:23, 9 June 2007 (UTC)Solberg
- I added a navbox to the bottom. I'd like to add more games, as well as split them into groups based on the version of TGE; but I don't have this information. SharkD (talk) 03:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
This page need pictures of gameplay of torque games!!!!1!!! 126.96.36.199 19:53, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
"After the release of Torque Game Builder, GarageGames went of to create Torque X. Torque X is a game engine based of Torque X using a component system that allows multiple game objects to have the same abilities." I don't know enough about Torque to be completely certain that this is wrong, but it definitely seems so. Could someone with more knowledge on the subject confirm? 188.8.131.52 (talk) 22:56, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Torque X Documentation Comment
Regarding the Torque X section, the article claims "documentation are nearly non-existent" and "there is next to no formal documentation." More work has been put into documentation over the past 6 month, including two major updates to Torque X's documentation: http://docs.garagegames.com/torquex/ and http://docs.garagegames.com/torquex/official. Would it be fair to say something closer to "only recently has Torque X's documentation began to receive more content and updates" ? GameDevMich (talk) 23:44, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
Modified Documentation Section
TDN no longer requires you to own a Torque engine to gain access. You only need a GarageGames.com account, which is free. Also noted that GG has hired a documentation engineer to improve product documentation. GameDevMich (talk) 09:02, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Poor Quality and Citations in "Strengths and Weaknesses"
The sections "Strengths and Weaknesses" are of very poor quality, opinionated, and lack citations. Too much of it is "it is considered" (who considers it to be so?) or "many users believe" (which polls show this?).
Merged with TGEA
I've merged the article Torque Game Engine Advanced because it is blatent advertising for a non-active product. TGEA is the engine that powers the current TGE and therefore represents nothing significant on the product/engine front. I'm merging it because it is far too much advertising for components of the same product.
Please see Talk:Torque (game engine)/TGEA for the talk page of the original article.
I just added a brief paragraph about the new GarageGames engine, I unfortunately don't know the exact date it was first released. Perhaps more information on the development history could be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JackStonePGD (talk • contribs) 04:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)