User talk:ThatPeskyCommoner/Archive 17

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Archive 16 Archive 17 Archive 18


I happened to read the little snippets of info about your interests, which made me think of the stubbish newcomer's manual… although probably you already know of it :^) benzband (talk) 08:59, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Aaaaaaarrrrrghhhhhhh! The Attack of the Redlinks! Onoes, onoes, I hate redlinks! If it occurs to me at the same time as I have any inspiration, I may get around to doing the litmus thing and turning some of the red into blue. No promises, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility. It's a thing that some of my stalkers would be very good at tinkering with, if they felt so inclined; we have some really good teachers in here. Pesky (talk) 05:29, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 :-) benzband (talk) 10:24, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Hehe! OK, I just wrote the verifiability policy and how to apply it for you! Pesky (talk) 10:00, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
LOVE IT! Pesky strikes again! Montanabw(talk) 17:02, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
too much jargon Penyulap 23:28, 17 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I lifted that pretty much straight from the Verifiability RfC conversation. I'm going to sum up WP:RS for you next ;P Pesky (talk) 03:36, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Oh ok, I see the problem, it's all nice and bureaucratic and orderly and CRAP there. Ok, try this a bridge the remaining distance to planet newcomer.
  • IF the statement is a quote THEN a citation and inline attribution are needed
  • If it's a quote, the say where you found it (citation) and say who said it (inline attribution) in the same sentence.
Penyulap 05:49, 19 Jul 2012 (UTC)
That's good; I wqould just link it to the definitions, personally.

Anyhoo, I just wrote up Reliable sources for the newcomer's manual. Pesky (talk) 07:07, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

As you please, I just like to take the example of an article and go approachable, so it doesn't need other pages in order to be understood. Penyulap 12:11, 19 Jul 2012 (UTC)
In many ways, that's a very good point. But (having taught for decades!) I've also discovered that in most cases, the fewer words the better in the section where you're just getting the basic ideas across. Once people have grasped the basic idea (and the reasoning behind it), they find it much easier to understand to in-depth stuff, without losing sight of either that basic idea or the next one. It's like setting up a computer program; first we define the parameters and arrays, etc. Or using a style sheet for an html page. We define the styles up front, and then use them on the page / in the program later. Not an exact parallel, of course, but in a human-program term. Pesky (talk) 04:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Adding: here's a horsey one: When you're riding and training a horse, the engine, and the weight of the engine, is in the back end. The front end is there mostly for balance and steering, and should be really light. We influence the front end using subtlety, not force or strength. Expansion: imagine his back legs as thick as tree trunks, and his front legs as thin as bamboo poles. The front legs are there to stop his nose hitting the ground. Pesky (talk) 04:40, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

You're wrong. It's not about this bit being short, it's short enough either way. Your objective is to speak to someone who is new to wikipedia You've already lost them with the words citation and inline attribution. That is just wrong, right there is where you have them confused and you're losing them already. They are trying to understand the docs, they are trying to make sense of it, and you have made it impossible. Go back, and re-read my suggestion and yours through the eyes of a new user. Do not give a new user jargon without explaining it on the spot. Don't. Penyulap 04:49, 25 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Yes, you're right. I've tweaked that as per your suggestion. Pesky (talk) 04:59, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
The emulated newbies 👍 Like
For the next 3 points, you only need two. rather than
  • IF the statement is an exceptional claim and highly likely to be challenged, THEN exceptional source(s) (citations) is / are needed
  • IF the statement is challenged or likely to be challenged, THEN a citation is needed
  • IF the statement is easily verifiable by anyone, unchallenged nor ever likely to be challenged THEN no citation is needed.
Not facebook not like thumbs down.pngDislike 'exceptional source(s)' it was a sticking point in the target demographic (all readers minus the average readers)
try something like this
  • The more controversial the statement, the better quality the source(citation) has to be.
  • IF the statement is never likely to be questioned, uncontroversial, and nobody asks for a citation, THEN no citation is needed.
frivolous claims for a citation should be left out, it is probably easier to deal with it elsewhere, but I am introducing bias into that calculation as I want the interwiki requests for citations to succeed, at the expense of idiots arguing that the sky is blue. Put that part into into the what to do when someone is stupid docs.

oops, I forgot to sign, -Pen. that's better.

A new pact; a new userbox

To all the stalkers & co.:

If you agree with this pact, please sign up, and (if you choose), add {{User:ThatPeskyCommoner/Userboxes/APact}} to your space to get this userbox:

Pesky (talk) 07:16, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why people shouldn't follow that pact all the time, just a reconfirmation of WP:AGF for a specific situation, but I agree with it! You'll have to excuse me for not using the userbox, I'm not a big one for userboxen. WormTT(talk) 07:24, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Guys, I;ve added a sentence to this pact. Could all signatories please check that they're OK with the new addition, please? Pesky (talk) 04:20, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

some help would be lovely

I am having an extremely frustrating time due to a number of things, you can probably see from my contribs (it was the only way I could work it out) that I'm falling to sleep erratically all over the place, (I try again tomorrow to see a doctor) I am having a very hard time however identifying who I am going to speak to as far as an SPI is concerned, it's the same case, and I still haven't worked out who the hell is supposed to be the person I speak with. The crap needs mopping up, it's all in my head, and I sure as hell can't write it all down because it is simply going to be tldr as always. Your friend doesn't help by being two faced either, one face on the SPI page, and one on the puppet talkpage. In order to compress everything down to readable twitter sized pieces I have to know which parts are required step by step. When I demonstrate that it is WP:HA and then someone falsely represents themselves to be ignorant of it on the spi page, then I cannot proceed to step two. Do you think it is appropriate that I should give more and more and more detail on the SPI page to someone who is being this two faced ? is that helpful ? is that the T word right there ? If you could assist me to find someone reasonable to work with that would be of great assistance to me. I did not wish to bother Dennis as he is already aware but appears to be heavily loaded with work to do already.

Also I've sent some emails but have had no response, which is confusing too. Penyulap 06:21, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Ahh! Don't fall into the autie-trap of labelling someone as two-faced when they act a bit differently in different places! One of the thinks which neurotypicals are very good at is tailoring their approaches to different people and situations, and it's something which doesn't usually come naturally to us. Assume good faith; there will be a good reason for this, and that reason may never be instinctively clear to you. You're working on a different kind of operating system which specialises in different things. Dennis Brown's pretty darned good on SPI things; he's also very tolerant and understanding and goes the extra mile to see where you're really coming from. Also, don't fall into the trap of thinking someone is "falsely misrepresenting themselves", when the explanation is possibly just that they really are ignorant of it (as in, haven't recognised it, genuinely, or haven't taken it all in and processed it). Talk to Dennis; he'll appreciate the fact that you;re not being wilfully disruptive and that you really do think there's a problem which other people may not have spotted. Be patient with him, too! One of your biggest glitches is that you lose patience with people who don;t see things in as much detail and as clearly as you do. Pesky (talk) 06:32, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Sorry about the email thing; I've been both very tied-up with some deadline-driven stuff IRL, and I'm still trying to think how best to word a response. Pesky (talk) 07:20, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for telling me, with that explanation and knowing of your son, everything is ok, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't talking to me sort of thing. I'm awake in the middle of my (involuntarily induced) sleep. Take care, my thoughts are with your son, and with you. Penyulap 10:09, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)

ZOMG! That cat is soooo clever!

And persistent! You know I talked about how Bryn was trying to clean the litter tray earlier! And left the poop-scoop in the tray?

Well, this morning, he managed to get a poo-bag into the tray, and carefully (and very deftly) managed to sort out the poo and put it on top of the bag. Wow! I'm just waiting for the day when he gets the poo into the bag, ties up the bag, and trots off to the bin with it ... Pesky (talk) 06:39, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

You could easily retrain it to use and flush the toilet, may cats can. Unless he has a thing for the tray. Penyulap 10:20, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I know they can be trained to use a toilet. But Bryn's unlikely to be trainable to do so, just from insecurity. He's a big cat (only a shade under 4 ft long from nose-tip to tail-tip, and weighs around 10 Kg), and only has one 'proper' hip joint (he had to have an operation to remove the head of his right femur as a youngster, as he got Legg–Calvé–Perthes syndrome); his other hip joint isn't 100% right, either. The result being that he's not totally confident with his balance in all situations, so perching on the loo seat isn't something he'd want to try. And we also have two other cats, one of whom is now 17, with a touch of arthritis in his pelvis and lower back, so it wouldn't be for him, either! Pesky (talk) 03:00, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Everyone in your house is glad to have each other I bet. Penyulap 06:14, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Hmmm. I don't think the "multi-species family" concept applies well between, say, the mammalian pets (cats and dog), and the boa constrictor ... boas' perceptions of the world don't include any equivalent of "family". Pesky (talk) 06:39, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Prioritising ...

Pen (and others), I apologise if I'm not giving the amount of input / response that you may deserve. Thing is, though, that I'm spending a lot of time with my son, doing some of the stuff that he needs to get done, and keeping an eye on him helping me do some of the stuff that I should be getting done, and in other circumstances might just have been able to delegate to him. This is the son with the PE. I'm basically on constant semi-alert mode, keeping an eye out for anything which could indicate a potentially-life-threatening second (or further) embolism, and (because he's on anticoagulants) also keeping an eye out for anything which might indicate an equally-potentially-life-threatening bleed. So that's taking priority over WikiRelated stuff for a while. Pesky (talk) 08:58, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

And so it bloody should. My thoughts are with you and your son. WormTT(talk) 09:02, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Family pwns everything. I too am thinking about your family and wish you all the best. Keilana|Parlez ici 14:40, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Pesky

but you've got mail. WormTT(talk) 12:05, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Heh! I'll read it after lunch (if I remember ...) Pesky (talk) 13:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Don't worry about it Pesky. I've changed my mind, it's not worth the stress for any of the people involved. As far as I'm concerned, everything is now resolved. WormTT(talk) 13:26, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Adventure: Request for feedback on Community Fellowship proposal

Hi! I'm contacting you because you have participated or discussed The Wikipedia Adventure learning tutorial/game idea. I think you should know about a current Community Fellowship proposal to create the game with some Wikimedia Foundation support. Your feedback on the proposal would be very much appreciated. I should note that the feedback is for the proposal, not the proposer, and even if the Fellowship goes forward it might be undertaken by presently not-mentioned editors. Thanks again for your consideration.


Cheers, User:Ocaasi 16:42, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Dispute Resolution IRC office hours.

Hello there. As you expressed interest in hearing updates to my research in the dispute resolution survey that was done a few months ago, I just wanted to let you know that I am hosting an IRC office hours session this coming Saturday, 28th July at 19:00 UTC (approximately 12 hours from now). This will be located in the #wikimedia-office connect IRC channel - if you have not participated in an IRC discussion before you can connect to IRC here.

Regards, User:Szhang (WMF) (talk) 07:06, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Off Wiki question

  • Something got the missus flustered and it ain't me, let's just say that there is a student below the age of 12 and he somehow overheard the teachers discussing about another student going through anger management counselling and he decides to "poke" this other student, what do you think would happen next? --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 18:44, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Oops! Well, almost anything could happen. Tell you what, though; see if you can get the youngster on board to help the other guy out with some role-play stuff for anger management. Let them both know they're working together; they might both have a heap of fun with it. The little poker gets to try to be as obnoxious as he can, and the other guy gets to "beat" him at the game by not getting annoyed but just taking it all with a Buddha-like smile on his face ... Pesky (talk) 02:47, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Oh oh, I remember that signature from here, I remember because it's not often I get to use my supreme talent for stupidity to blast an argument into oblivion and restore order. cool ! Penyulap 06:23, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Pen, was that constructive? You're brilliant, but please engage brain before hitting "Save"! Pesky (talk) 06:36, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
what brain are you talking about ? Penyulap 17:31, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

How amazing!

I can put this here now that the discussion is closed and there can be no accusations of canvassing!

Twenty-two people don't think that it is important that our policies should be immediately and unambiguously clear to all our editors, including those for whom English is a second language, and those who are on the Autism spectrum, or that any statement that may cause confusion, or a "jolt" to the thinking processes, should be clarified with a full explanation in order to avoid misinterpretation and / or mistakes in applying policy that cause avoidable stress and argument, and unnecessarily waste editors' time and resources.

ROFL! Pesky (talk) 15:38, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

No, no, they're quite right. If anything, policies should even more ambiguous and confusing. Else where's the fun? OohBunnies! (talk) 15:49, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
But if the policies weren't ambiguous and confusing admins would lose their excuse to make them up as they go along. Malleus Fatuorum 15:54, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Exactly - no fun! Our policies need to completely get in the way of actually building an encyclopedia. Otherwise this place would be, like, sane or something. *shudder* OohBunnies! (talk) 16:10, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Since it's over, surely it won't hurt to point to that discussion now ;) --Anthonyhcole (talk) 16:22, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Actions that can reasonably be construed as improving the encyclopedia should not be considered abuse. is NOT something you can actually say out loud.

Luckily we all agree that "A third party may request the review of a block at the Administrators' noticeboard." but after literally one dozen pages, we can't decide if we actually want to tell anyone. (I think, although I can't make out what the close actually said, can anyone help me here?) Penyulap 17:27, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Here it is ... enjoy! The comments can basically be broken down into the "It'll never fly!" group; the "Stupid idea!" group, the "I'm objecting to some extrapolation of it which has occurred to me" group, the "Gosh, you're trying to get rid of VnT in a really underhanded manner" group, the "So now we're going to have to word everything in every conceivable way to cope with the incompetent disabled" group, and the "I don't like it" group. Happy, happy closers ... Pesky (talk) 22:02, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Ugh. As Tryptofish points out early in the discussion, though, this concept is possibly a bit too "meta" for a forum addressing the wording of a specific policy. Thanks for the link. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 06:33, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Hehe! The real point, though (which I'm sure ~I made over there) is that this concept should be borne in mind when discussing the wording of any and all policies. Otherwise it gets overlooked, and policies end up being worded in Collegiate American, as opposed to Universal English, for want of a better phrase. The language of policy should not be higher-educated-US-centric. Pesky (talk) 06:37, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
I agree with you there, but it seems that has yet to be affirmed in policy (policy on policy). I haven't read the whole thread so if I'm not making sense in that context, that's why. A lot of policy could be expressed in simpler, less ambiguous, less dissonant or less recursive terms, including that one. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 06:53, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Defined as follows:

* "Clear, straightforward expression, using only as many words as are necessary. It is language that avoids obscurity, inflated vocabulary and convoluted construction. It is not baby talk, nor is it a simplified version of ... language." (Dr Robert Eagleson)

Pesky (talk) 07:00, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

... and this is a lovely one:


“The amount of expenses reimbursed to a claimant under this subpart shall be reduced by any amount that the claimant receives from a collateral source in connection with the same act of international terrorism. In cases in which a claimant receives reimbursement under this subpart for expenses that also will or may be reimbursed from another source, the claimant shall subrogate the United States to the claim for payment from the collateral source up to the amount for which the claimant was reimbursed under this subpart.”


“If you get a payment from a collateral source, we will reduce our payment by the amount you get. If you get payments from us and from a collateral source for the same expenses, you must pay us back the amount we paid you.” Pesky (talk) 07:14, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Ah, but of course they don't want to use the active voice. :-) Arc de Ciel (talk) 09:38, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Easy either way, and for a translation of the concept to child's play, then if mummy and daddy both give you some pocket-money, it cannot exceed your allowance (you little terrorist :) Penyulap 09:43, 29 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Arc, what they should want to do is the most effective thing. It's quite astounding just how many people would rather have My Favourite than either Something Better or The Best. We should never lose sight of the reasons we have our policies available to read. Such as, for example, as many people as possible actually understanding what we mean (as opposed to, for example the most-collegiate-sounding or formal way of wording it ....) Pesky (talk) 09:56, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
This is the kind of thing we should be doing with our policy pages - going from "before" to "after". Interestingly, the Plain Writing Act of 2010 gives some formal recognition to the concept in the USA, so it kinda surprises me that our US-based colleagues are some of those who don't appear to appreciate the importance of it. I was taught (and have always believed) that it is the duty of the writer (or teacher) to ensure that what they have written or are teaching is clear, and not the duty of the reader (or student) to try and make head or tail of it to accommodate deficiencies in the writer / teacher.

Design for All a design philosophy targeting the use of products, services and systems by as many people as possible without the need for adaptation. Design for All is design for human diversity, social inclusion and equality (EIDD Stockholm Declaration, 2004). According to the European Commission, it "encourages manufacturers and service providers to produce new technologies for everyone: technologies that are suitable for the elderly and people with disabilities, as much as the teenage techno wizard." As a community, we are more than capable of writing in DfA-English on our policy pages. Policies should be written to the highest standards to which we can aspire (FA-standard prose, basically). The only thing which appears to be lacking is the desire to do so, possibly founded on Denial that there's any need to do so. Pesky (talk) 04:10, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I really do find that language attractive, Techno wizard and grandmother sort of thing, a list of compliments is a better new direction to travel in. However, I'd say it is about a trillion times easier for me to use the ideas in the non-sister projects as it can just be written, and placed out of reach of little fingers the same way I put innocent prisoners dilemma out of reach. Otherwise it is slow going. But I'll do my best to help. Penyulap 04:33, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Too-obvious suggestion? : make it a requirement that all policy pages are turned over to the FAC/FAR team regularly for review and language-cleansing ... Pesky (talk) 04:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Anonymous thankyou

SpecialBarnstar.png The Special Barnstar
"Pesky is the BEST. [What she] wrote about improving Wikipedia policy writing in the sense of universal design means a lot to my wife and I. Please, please tell her thanks. It is unimportant if she knows the thanks are from us or not."
(Anonymous thanks) certified by Penyulap 02:45, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Aww, bless! I'm not the best, though; I just try to do what I can (and have the time and energy to attempt). Thank them for me, Pen. Pesky (talk) 03:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Stalker input please!

Hey guys! What do we think about the idea of a new WikiProject: Plain English for Policies? Anyone like the idea of this? Pesky (talk) 04:46, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

It'll do. "needless jargon" 8-P Penyulap 07:43, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I certainly support that, Pesky. The technical difficulties shouldn't be an argument against the initiative, imo. —MistyMorn (talk) 17:17, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


I'm guessing you might or might not know that Pen was indef blocked. It is a shame, but necessary. Of course, many editors have run to his talk page. What he might not have expected is that while they support the block, they support and like Penyulap, and hope he can deal with his demons and come back. Just wanted to let you know. Dennis Brown - © Join WER 02:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I read the AN/I thread in the wee small hours of this morning. He's mentioned a few symptoms of his ill-health, and also that it's something to do with his thyroid. This may be a possibility; interestingly, that kind of problem can also cause altered mental states, etc. Lifting straight from the article: "Thyrotoxic patients may experience behavioral and personality changes, such as psychosis, agitation, and depression. In milder hyperthyroidism, patients will rather experience less overt manifestations, such as anxiety, restlessness,irritability, and emotional lability." Hopefully, whatever it is, his local medics will be able to work out an effective treatment regime which will (quite literally) bring him back to himself. These past few weeks have not been "normal" for him, and, though I always have vast sympathy for people whose medical problems are seriously interfering with their ability to work well on-wiki, as at this moment Pen and Teh 'Pedia are incompatible. But hey, it's not forever (indefinite doesn't mean infinite), and once things have settled down for him all may be well enough for him to come back. Pesky (talk) 04:41, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Quotes for the day

  • If you know someone who tries to drown their sorrows, you might tell them sorrows know how to swim. (Anon)
  • Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. (Anon.)

Pesky (talk) 07:21, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


Hi Pesky, just thought I'd let you know that an editor who self-identifies as on the autistic spectrum, is currently at WP:ANI (and most likely about to be indefinitely blocked, as far as I can see), here. You may have useful input. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 08:44, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up; I'll have a browse around and see if I could be helpful. Pesky (talk) 08:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Done a couple of things; we'll see if anything comes of it. Hugz to Demi, anyway! Long time, no see! Pesky (talk) 09:06, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Nice work so far. By the way, I suspect that the Ham Cork dramafest may have drawn some of the flak away from Jayemd. bobrayner (talk) 17:42, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks - I'm sorry I had to leave the keyboard at that time, as it was a bit of a hot situation. Bob, could you possibly chat with JayC (see below) – perhaps even see if he might be interested in helping Jayemd improve some of those articles? Pesky (talk) 02:38, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

autism essay

hello, I proposed your essay be moved, I thought you'd like to engage in discussion. (talk) 21:00, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I've responded there. Pesky (talk) 02:35, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Another for the stable: castration as an option for rouge admins?

Over here! ROFL Pesky (talk) 03:29, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Some bits...

Ok that made me laugh : ) - jc37 03:49, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I am still giggling! These little gems do turn up here in the 'pedia. I tend to collect them over here. The ArbCom Secret Ballet and the Notorious Prehistoric Zombie Elk are still favourites. Pesky (talk) 03:52, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
My favourite moment along those lines has always been (paraphrased from poor memory): Jon Arbuckle sees Garfield is sick, and says to Garfield that "We'll get you fixed up". Garfield then taking Jon by the collar (or some other way abusing him): "Don't say "fixed" to an animal person" : ) - jc37 04:01, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Hehe! Pesky (talk) 04:04, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
just checked out your "zoo". : )
I haven't updated the top of my talk page with any recent fun (Had a discussion (a few months ago) over a couple days during which we discovered I had been "snubbed" by the CFD cabal to not be a member : ) - But you might enjoy the link to be read in context (note it even has footnotes : ) - jc37 04:22, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Hey, you're a poet and you know it! That's twoderful (like wonderful, only doubly so ...) . I was struck with inspiration while rescuing an article I found on npp, and came up with The Saga of the Meermin as a result. It's waiting for poetpedia to be invented. And it's fully referenced ... ;P (and you have no idea how much I was tempted to put "anchor" at the end of a line, lol!) Pesky (talk) 04:34, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Nice!. Wikipoetica : )
Kidding aside, it actually might qualify for WikiBooks... - jc37 04:49, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Sadly, I forgot to make a note of the whereabouts of the worlds largest and most notable football when I encountered it on new page patrol. One missing word ("stadium") was responsible for it. Something along the lines of "X is a football in [some country or other] and can seat 60,000 people..." Pesky (talk) 04:47, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Lol. that reminds me of one that's still on my talk page concerning Schwarma. - jc37 04:51, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Hehe! I like stuff like the pic here. Pesky (talk) 05:03, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

"This content is currently unavailable" I don't have a facebook account, which is probably why.
Speaking of pics, there's always this : ) - jc37 05:22, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
sold out ...

Hehe! I like the way that Tesco's have branched out, personally ;P Pesky (talk) 06:21, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Page Triage newsletter

Hey all. Some quick but important updates on what we've been up to and what's coming up next :).

The curation toolbar, our Wikimedia-supported twinkle replacement. We're going to be deploying it, along with a pile of bugfixes, to wikipedia on 9 August. After a few days to check it doesn't make anything explode or die, we'll be sticking up a big notice and sending out an additional newsletter inviting people to test it out and give us feedback :). This will be followed by two office hours sessions - one on Tuesday the 14th of August at 19:00 UTC for all us Europeans, and one on Wednesday the 15th at 23:00 UTC for the East Coasters out there :). As always, these will be held in #wikimedia-office; drop me a note if you want to know how to easily get on IRC, or if you aren't able to attend but would like the logs.

I hope to see a lot of you there; it's going to be a big day for everyone involved, I think :). I'll have more notes after the deployment! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:56, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. RFC bot (talk) 22:16, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Poor punctuation = health risks

You could die from the giggles. I came across a truly wonderful non-wiki one earlier today, in a book about environmentally-friendly building, regarding the legal obligations of members of a community in Hockerton.

"... specific conditions, such as a restriction to one fossil-fuelled car for each household and an obligation to contribute a minimum of eight hours per week to maintaining the energy and water systems, cultivating the organic vegetables and fruit, tending bees and fish in the lake ..." (Jon Broome (2007). The Green Self-Build Book. Green Books Ltd. ISBN 9781903998731. )

Onoes! We have a drowning bee! Launch the lifeboat! Pesky (talk) 22:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC) Alternatively: aquatic bees? Interesting concept ... Pesky (talk) 07:26, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

That dreaded battle for the serial comma! Montanabw(talk) 17:54, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Hehe! Even "tending bees in the orchard (or wherever) and fish in the lake" would have done. One of my greatest delights in reading what others have written, anywhere at all, is the occasional giggle-fits. Pesky (talk) 06:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

New Pages newsletter

Hey all :)

A couple of new things.

First, you'll note that all the project titles have now changed to the Page Curation prefix, rather than having the New Pages Feed prefix. This is because the overarching project name has changed to Page Curation; the feed is still known as New Pages Feed, and the Curation Toolbar is still the Curation Toolbar. Hopefully this will be the last namechange ;p.

On the subject of the Curation Toolbar (nice segue, Oliver!) - it's now deployed on Wikipedia. Just open up any article in the New Pages Feed and it should appear on the right. It's still a beta version - bugs are expected - and we've got a lot more work to do. But if you see something going wrong, or a feature missing, drop me a note or post on the project talkpage and I'll be happy to help :). We'll be holding two office hours sessions to discuss the tool and improvements to it; the first is at 19:00 UTC on 14 August, and the second at 23:00 on the 15th. Both will be in #wikimedia-office as always. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:00, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Code for Name-Change

Please let me know what code I shall use in order to display a banner indicating "It has been suggested that this page title XYZ be changed to ABC". Here XYZ is current title and ABC is suggested title. Kurmaa (talk) 12:34, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Try something like {{move notice|date=August 2012|ABC|discuss=Talk:XYZ#Move proposal}} • Jesse V.(talk) 17:22, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
Appreciate it very much, Kurmaa (talk) 10:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

eHugs for littlest grandchild

... not yet two, and currently in hospital with pneumonia :o( He is going to be having a CT scan (under sedation) and possibly / probably a chest drain, poor little soul. Pesky (talk) 09:12, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to hear this Pesky. Its harder for the little ones because they don't understand what's happening to them, and always hard for the family to watch and to be able to do so little to help. I hope he's well soon.(olive (talk) 15:37, 9 August 2012 (UTC))

Hope all goes well, Pesky, bet wishes to the littluns! Montanabw(talk) 19:19, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
At least he's in the best place, and has his mum with him. They have to do a CT as his pneumonia didn't look like a "normal" one on X-ray; it's looking more like a collection of fluid than a classic infection. Sooo .... they need to get it really well sussed out and precisely located before they can stick a drain in him. He's not feeling too awful now they've got him on various medications, and apparently was allowed out of the ward with mum to go for a walk around the hospital. They've got the fever under control, too; it had been spiking up to over 39 (104-ish in "old money") before that. On the whole, he's a hardy little soul though; he should pull through fine. Pesky (talk) 04:22, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
Apparently he's feeling well enough to be a very cross bubba this morning! Not allowed any booby until after his scan, lol! Pesky (talk) 09:37, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
Nice he's recovering. Whew! Kids can be so resilient.(olive (talk) 15:14, 12 August 2012 (UTC))
He's much happier in himself, but the CT scan shows he has a tumour in his lung :o( That, together with the fluid, is putting so much pressure on that side that there's almost no air getting in that lung at all. They are going to do a biopsy on it this morning to find out exactly what it is, and then he's most likely to be on chemo to shrink it before they can remove it surgically. Funny how things work out: if he hadn't had the extra infection and spiking temperature, we wouldn't have discovered the tumour until much later, so it's a good thing he was running such a high fever, really. Pesky (talk) 04:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Update: looks like Embryonal rhabdomyosarcoma or Pleuropulmonary blastoma. :o( Pesky (talk) 15:37, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Oh no....I'm so sorry to hear this, but then also finding it when they did is a gift . Good luck to you and your family with this Pesky. We are assuming complete recovery and that's all there is to it...hmph!(olive (talk) 19:18, 13 August 2012 (UTC))
I suppose that's both bad luck and good luck then Pesky, so hopefully they'll cancel each other out and the little chap will be fine. Malleus Fatuorum 19:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, young children make the most responsive patients. —MistyMORN 19:47, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Best wishes for the wee one! Montanabw(talk) 22:17, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────He has a lot going for him: he's very well in himself other than that, and his body seems to have been able to compensate pretty well for only effectively having one functioning lung. The medicos were amazed that he could be running around like he does. It will be at least 5 days before we have biopsy results, depends rather on how many different tests they have to do on it to isolate exactly which it is. He should be coming home either today or tomorrow, and then will be starting on chemo to shrink it before surgery to remove as much as they can of it. Unfortunately it's not a nice discrete tumour; there's some invasion of the chest wall and pleura as well. With any luck, though, the chemo will zap a lot of it.

We're going to ask the hospital if we can put the CT image on Commons (when we find out which it is), as both those articles are very poorly illustrated. I'm not sure who would technically hold the copyright on it; they were quite happy to let us have a copy of it (and the radiologist's report) on disc. If it's the PPB, it's probably unlikely that the 'pedia could easily get an image from elsewhere, as there are so few cases of it worldwide. Pesky (talk) 03:55, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

My new project - WWC

Hi Pesky! I wanted to stop by to share a new project with you that I am developing, called the WikiWomen's Collaborative. I would love your input about the project.

WWC needs you!
  • You can find the project page here.
  • On the talk page, you'll find a number of questions I'm seeking input on. I'm especially seeking thoughts about hosting the space off of Wikipedia (in the WordPress section). I hope you will join in on the conversation.
  • Finally, this project will be developed with volunteers from around the world who want to engage and support bringing new women to Wikipedia. If you think you'd like to be involved in some capacity, that'd be awesome. We're still working on developing roles, but, you can learn more about volunteer opportunities here.

Thank you for the consideration and I hope you'll participate in developing this exciting new project to bring more women to Wikipedia! SarahStierch (talk) 22:52, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I shall have a look and see if I can be helpful. Pesky (talk) 03:39, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Red Kitten 01.jpg


I was introduced by a friend to befriend you because our common interests. Hope you like my stuff, you can see them on my user page. Have a great day!

RexRowan (talk) 07:51, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Awwww, cutie kitteh! Thank you :D (I love cats.) When I have a little more time to spare, I shall certainly take a look. Pesky (talk) 07:58, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Hey, we have a heap of interests in common! Hugz! Pesky (talk) 08:30, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Hugs! Sorry, it took a while for me to find you again! :D -- RexRowan  Talk  11:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Stalker butting in

my second surgery in less than a month, sorry to whine but something’s just don’t seem like they should be out patient. thanks for your words : )

Sara goth (talk) 07:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Aww, join the club! I've had something like 15 surgeries over the past three years, with more to come. I've kinda lost count of the total-lifetime number (unless I sit down with pencil and paper ...) I actually like to get them over and done with ASAP, with the result that I sometimes have surgeries at two different local hospitals, for different things, within the space of a week / fortnight. It can have its problems, but the net result has always been worth it, for me. I had some major surgery on my neck earlier this year (two splattered discs removed and three vertebrae fused together). Sooooo worth it! I now have almost full sensation and motor function back in my left arm and upper back; prior to the surgery I was having to sit with my left arm propped up in order to be able to use the keyboard, and producing typos by the thousand, lol! My local orthopaedic team affectionately call me their "ongoing carpentry project" ;P Pesky (talk) 08:00, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky, Hi sara (I stalk Pesky's page, she stalks mine...) USA health care loves to do "drive-through surgery." If she lives where I think she lives (grin), Sara theoretically has access to one of the best hospitals in our state, but I bet she still probably feels completely miserable if they did an outpatient surgery, I'm betting they had her out in 24 hrs, before she would even say "wha...?" When I had my detached retina surgery in 2007, I had to go to a hospital over 100 miles away because only three doctors in the whole state did this stuff, they didn't even put me in the hospital, just did it under partial anesthesia at their eye clinic, I work up ALL THE WAY partly through when they had three tools sticking out of my eye, thank god for a good local! =:-O and then sent me off to a motel with Rx for painkillers and spouse to play nurse, told be to come back in the morning! The US health care system is great at cost-cutting, even when you have insurance, no one gives a shit about post-op, they just want you out the door! (grumbling) Montanabw(talk) 19:19, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Over here, we call it "day case surgery", lol! Mine have pretty much all been that type; I think my best one was when they did the right knee. I was at the computer until about 6am, whizzed off to hospital, was in theatre by 9 am, and back home in time for lunch! (and, of course, back on the computer again). They know it's OK to kick me out when I get up and start obsessive-compulsively tidying the ward ... To be fair to them, hospitals have discovered that the sooner you can get people out, the better. Far fewer post-op complications with hospital-caused infections, likewise far fewer clotting problems as folks are far more likely to be up and pottering about at home than if they stay in. So, yes, cheaper for them – but also has sound health benefits, and means they have more beds free so can reduce waiting times for surgery. Pesky (talk) 04:14, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

you two have stories that make me feel like a wimp for whining about my surgery. mine was some pre cancer stuff took two surgeries to get it all. it was in my mouth that’s right i was a smoker. i sure hope this is the end of it because I can’t afford it. i am not trying to sound political when I say this but I sure wish we had nation healthcare in this country. Sara goth (talk) 17:38, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Not all collies are intelligent, lol!

... like this one Pesky (talk) 10:39, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Merge discussion for National Memorial Hall (Mount Herzl)

Information.svg An article that you have been involved in editing, National Memorial Hall (Mount Herzl) , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Beastiepaws (talk) 02:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


Hi Pesky, I designed a userbox you can add to your userpage or subpages so that it's easier to find me. You want me to make you one to add as my friend too?

Crystal Clear app ksmiletris.png
This user is a friend of RexRowan.

 :D -- RexRowan  Talk  10:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

What a lovely idea! The only challenge is that with so many friendly stalkers, some of them might feel left out if I started identifying only some as "friends" (either that or my page would be entirely taken up with friend userboxes, lol!) I will never "lose" where you are, though, and if you add my talk page to your watchlist you'll get reminders most days of where I am ;P Many thanks for the lovely thought ... and I have just the thing to drop on your page (wait a few tics while I go find it ...) Pesky (talk) 17:51, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
I think you are already on my watchlist. Thank you so much for the Pesky Express! I love it very much! Hugs! :D -- RexRowan  Talk  18:10, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I don't think talk page stalkers would feel left out. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 18:28, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Maybe, but if we all did this, then we'd be facebook! At least, those of us with a WP:centijimbos count!  :-P Montanabw(talk) 22:24, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Hehe! As at today, I have 121 talk-page stalkers. I shall distribute virtual cookies to everyone ... here, have a lovely choc-chip and hazelnut one! And the beverage of your choice to go with it :D Pesky (talk) 02:44, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback from WWC

Hi Pesky, Matthew is one of my Wiki-grandpa Worm's people. And I asked Doc James to be my mentor. Matthew was right in some way that article talk page is not a forum. If you think about it, this is the only place we can do what we think is right without excessive socializing, something people on the spectrum can feel comfortable about. But occasionally, we meet like minded people and would like to interact more, like me and you, human nature, nothing wrong with that. I suggest try to avoid article talk page and use our own talk page for everything else. Also, if it makes easier, I saw my grandpa does this, you can create a private page to chat to a specific person and it's nobody's business.

I am free for a chat anytime, big outlaw, yes. If I run this place I'd take all of the top contributors out for dinners and you can tell me as many jokes as you like. A champion motives with benevolence and a loser represses with tyranny.

Many people say that it's unprofessional to mix work and fun together but who's to say they are professionals? Most articles written on here are by amateurs, real journals get published in Science and Nature. On top of that, I think it is one of the most unappealing policy of Wikipedia, all work and no fun, slightly out balanced, won't you say?

This is my own solution, you are invited to join my party at my mess deck: User:RexRowan/Mess

-- RexRowan  Talk  11:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Ehh, never mind. It wasn't even on an article talk page, just the WikiProject talk page, and was in response to something said by someone else .... which was also personal input. Maybe M just had a snappy day.

P.S. Worm's one of my favouritest people in here ;P Pesky (talk) 02:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Stalker Input?

I'm working on a few ideas on Plain English for policies. It may or may not ever turn into a WikiProject (would be nice if it did; would almost certainly improve editor retention).

Anyone who's interested in this idea, please read over here. Adding any more good sources and summaries of same would be welcome. Pesky (talk) 06:43, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia is not a dictionary

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