User talk:ThatPeskyCommoner/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Antiquity, do we resemble that remark?

I think the spotty artist may have been dotty! (groan) LOL! However, the comparison to a dapple gray was interesting, and more likely than the Appaloosa theory that the ApHC promoted for decades, based on the same images. But the darkness on the dun doesn't really look like a mane to me the way the spotty horse's does. I'd say that the Iberian horse crowd loves the parallels of those images, which brings us to the question of the line between a wildtype, a landrace, and a pure selectively bred modern "breed."

And yes, Wikigryphons can adapt to traits of any other wikifauna as needed, so we do like pull toys! (grrrr..grrr..shake, shake, shake...) We have speech and debate as a interscholastic "sport" in US schools, with yes, a debate component. Fun stuff! Your thumb, however, is not! Montanabw(talk) 23:36, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I think the artist liked to doodle :o) You only have to look at the hand-outlines to see that they were having fun. I reckon that the prehistoric types probably did come in various different colour-schemes, with some colours having advantages over others in different habitats. You only have to think about the amazing range of coat colours and patterns in the big cats (yes, I know they're not all the same species, lol!) to see that same-type predators have different-type coats for camouflage depending on habitat - the same kind of thing occurs in prey animals, too. And the grey-white-whatever thing really does work as 'can you see me now?' in an open-water / marshland habitat. I'd love to know if anyone's done any direct DNA comparisons between the Camargue horse and the Salutre horses - 'folklore' has it that they're very similar, skeletally and so on. And inhabiting similar area, and such-like. I reckon the dappled-spotty things were, ummmmmmm (let's go for the popularity stakes game) ... errrrrrmmmmm ........ ahhhhhhh ......grey Sorraias! Yesssssssss! Gotta be Sorraias! (Who cares if they're the wrong colour and on totally the wrong side of the ice-covered Pyrenees, does this really matter in the grand scheme of things; no it doesn't! [massive round of applause, cheers, standing ovations from the Sorraia people - cub has made whole heap of new friends!].

The thumb, bless its little heart, is just one of a heap of bits that seem to have gone past their best-before date recently. I find on the whole that surgery is a darned effective fix; had twelve ops of various kinds in the past two years to sort out all kind of gone-past-best bits of me, mostly with outstanding success. Got another two (maybe three, maybe more) ops lined up for this year, which will interfere with the pony-playing thing (particularly the second neck op - had one done on the neck eighteen months ago and not even supposed to hold a lead rope or lay hands on a horse for at least six weeks after the surgery!) So I kinda live on painkillers and stuff (mostly effective); and you do get used to it, really you do! It's the mechanical instability that's more of a bummer - I hate walking down slippery hills just coz I can't actually trust my knees not to bend in the wrong direction if I skid! ThatPeskyCommoner (talk) 02:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Thumbs. So who needs opposability, anyway? Oh yeah, humans! You have my sympathies for being laid up, but this must explain why you can do so many wonderful things on wiki! Montanabw(talk) 05:10, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
It's actually quite staggering how much you can successfully achieve without the use of an opposable thumb (on one hand, at least). It was in a cast for two months post-surgery, and I became quite adept at coping without it. Though doing up certain items of clothing, and rolling smokes was hard to get the knack of ...... yes, I have the occasional vice! It's what makes me at least partly human, lol! But I worked out a while ago that the year before last, I only actually had three weeks out of the whole year where I was "allowed to ride". ThatPeskyCommoner (talk) 05:27, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Happy PI day!

Happy Pi Day! :) (talk) 21:43, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

And to you, too! I like Pi. Specially with cream. Or ice cream. Or custard. Or (best of all) all of 'em :o) ThatPeskyCommoner (talk) 22:05, 14 March 2011 (UTC)


(I know, I don't always bother to tell you I figured you were around...)

User_talk:Chzz#Dear Mentor (!)  Chzz  ►  10:48, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Haha! I am a wikkid ole wumman ...... ThatPeskyCommoner (talk) 15:51, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


Barnstar of Humour3.png The Barnstar of Good Humor

Thank you - no idea what it was for, but thank you anyway, lol! ThatPeskyCommoner (talk) 01:30, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK and GA

Good job with the history article. Can I suggest to make a DYK of it and maybe consider to see if it is GA material? -- Kim van der Linde at venus 12:45, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! I have no idea how to make a DYK out of it, lol! I would certainly like it to be considered for GA (that was my aim for it right from the word go) - how do I do that, too? And now that I have got it up and running I may be able to find time to do that table of all those prehistoric finds! I'm waiting to hear back from Tony Stuart on exactly which two species of horse were found at Pakenham (c.700,000 ya). ThatPeskyCommoner (talk) 12:48, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Did you know is the place to be. if you want, I can make a nomination. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 14:18, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Ah - I just suggested the same thing, in reply on my talk! Yes, definitely, get the DYK entry in :-)  Chzz  ►  14:22, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Triple ditto. And if Kim doesn't have the time, I can help too! Montanabw(talk) 22:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
I've also added the article to template:Equine. Montanabw(talk) 23:32, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Awwww, thanks, guys! I'm not sure which would be the best bit to go for; maybe King John importing 100 Flemishers, or King Edward importing 50 Spanishers, or Caesar's forces being met by 4,000+ war chariots, or the 700,000 year-old horse remains, or whatever! Probably best if one of you chooses, you have more experience of what will most likely grab people's attention.ThatPeskyCommoner (talk) 01:34, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Just taken a look at the DYK stuff - looks way too complicated for poor fried brain at the mo! So I'd be really grateful if someone else could do it for me :o) ThatPeskyCommoner (talk) 01:41, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Okay, which fact do you think the general public likes best? -- Kim van der Linde at venus 14:59, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
The last DYK I submitted, I noticed that they are getting super-anal about whatever is in the hook being 100% sourced, so start with that. I think the extreme antiquity and originally being hunted stuff is probably the most likely hook, though the things about weird things kings and queens did also can be fun. Montanabw(talk) 15:51, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, they can, but no worries, we get a good hook. I personally would go with something people don't expect, like ceasar and the war chariots because many people have the idea that Britain was still kind of barbaric at the time.... -- Kim van der Linde at venus 16:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
That sounds cool too. If TPC has no particular preferences, that does sound like a way to grab attention. Montanabw(talk) 18:28, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I really have no particular preferences. The Caesar thing, I agree, is a good one. I hadn't realised myself just how 'organised' we were at that time - TV documentaries and so on tend to show maybe a dozen or two war chariots (probably can't find enough people to drive 4,000 of them - or enough small native-type ponies who can pull 4,000 of them either! lol!) You guys will be much better judges than I on what will grab people, so I'll leave it entire ly to you. Pesky (talk) 04:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

The deed is done Template talk:Did you know#History of the horse in Britain. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 18:21, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Bless youze! Thanks so much :o) Pesky (talk) 18:30, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Size of your signature

Hi there. Would you mind removing the "font-size" part of your signature? Per WP:SIG#Appearance and color, it's discouraged to use a signature that breaks the text flow and that stands out of the surrounding text. Regards SoWhy 14:15, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, gimme a tic .. WP's servers say they are having trouble, so darned hard to load my prefs page atm! TPC

No problem. Thanks for changing it :-) Regards SoWhy 10:25, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


Opinion Barnstar.png Your Opinion is More Important than You Think Barnstar
For your recent message on an arbitration [1] where your comments were humane and thoughtful and show you consider editors as real people rather than faceless names. Thank you for that astute and peace -inspiring comment. (olive (talk) 20:56, 25 March 2011 (UTC))

Thank you :o) I feel vast sympathy for all of them, no matter who did what. Very traumatic and long-drawn-out bitter experience for them all. Pesky (talk) 01:32, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


I'll take a look.  :) Typically (with a very few exceptions), the WMF doesn't get involved in the creation of policy or rules, but I'll happily take a look and see what I think. I'll tell you that I actually think that the issue isn't a need for more people with blocking powers, but a need for more people who can help to set the standards that we need. That's a societal tool, and not a technical one. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 00:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Ta! I actually meant to contact you in your role as an ordinary (lol!) WikiPerson, and not in your role as one of the high hiedyins, but in either role, you'll do! It's just - do you know some good guys who could possibly get involved in giving some input to this idea? Pesky (talk) 00:56, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

LOL, ya did it

I followed your "sheriff" comment to the one about the abuses of RfA and added a rant of my own! Thanks! I feel so much better now! The only person I know who basically swam with ease through an RfA is Dana boomer, but Dana is remarkable! Cgoodwin got nominated and got a horrible shellacking. I'm glad Cg still edits, I might have given up the ghost after that! Montanabw(talk) 06:32, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

"Man's inhumanity to man' springs to mind so often. I hated reading some of that history - so unnecessarily cruel. I can't abide vindictive cruelty. It's not on. Pesky (talk) 06:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

We are dealing with human nature, and often the human nature of the 18-to-24 year old male that tends to be pretty common on wikipedia, but I would like to think that humans can and need to evolve just a wee bit -- ever hear of that study that suggested that there was actually a change in our DNA that occurred about the time of the neolithic revolution? Chicken or egg question, did evolution drive our technology or did our technological advances drive our evolution? Is there hope for humanity? Montanabw(talk) 06:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Trouble is, people who want to have an opportuntiy to dig the knife in and twist it - don't matter who the victim is, just 'gimme a legitimate target' , know where to go to be allowed to mug people with (apparent) impunity. Sad. Pesky (talk) 06:49, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
And I wonder how Banana feels about snakes? Pesky (talk) 07:58, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
I dunno, but I'm in a sort of ranting frame of mind lately, so trout slap me if I'm getting too snarky! Montanabw(talk) 23:18, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
I think you got the tone about right -there are some interesting discussions and new proposals and so on 'incubating'. You could have some ideas to chuck into the melting pot? Pesky (talk) 01:39, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

How Screamingly Funny!

A really good, belly-splitting, thigh-slapping laugh is just what I needed :o) Still can't stop grinning about the bit of Userpage vandalism (go take a look at the diffs, lol!) I do wish the (pretend)-IP had actually been bold enough to be not-anonymous, though. Anyone who'd like to take a friendly slap at me can do so over here. Pesky (talk) 06:22, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I seem to have reached the end of my rope with some article edits. I wish I had a sense of humor, but, if you note my contribs, mine seems to have vanished into a sea of snark. Montanabw(talk) 09:02, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
I noticed you hadn't been 'about' as much as usual. Try going for a total change of pace for a few days and doing something totally mundane like typo-hunting, maybe? Also consider whether real-life issues are spilling over into WikiLand, and (if so, and if possible!) take a break from some of those, too. And get up on a horse, get out into the wilderness, and just chill for a while if you possibly can! Can you take a week's holiday from work (and do they have facilities for from-horseback camping / trail riding in your area?) Meantime, take extra-good care of yourself. Try doing some c/e work on articles you have no real passion for and won't get heated about, too. Pesky (talk) 09:13, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Part of the problem is definitely RL. Wikipedia should be my escape, but sometimes with WP and RL start seeming too similar, well, my RL job frequently involves dealing with difficult situtions ... But one part of the problem is definitely the "chill" part -- it's is still cold, cloudy, crappy ... freaking snowing every now and then! GRRR! I haven't been on a horse in ages, it's been all ice and ick up here. I wish I could take a holiday, that's the down side of self-employment, you CAN but then you don't get paid ... but at the moment, it would involve sitting inside somewhere, watching the rain and wind anyway -- it rained sideways for awhile today, I guess I'm glad none of it was white (snow) this time... yes, I am grumpy, grumpy, grumpy, grumpy! Montanabw(talk) 10:04, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
No chance you could get on a 'plane and come over here to the New Forest, then? You could help me finish breaking my gelding, lol! And halter-breaking a few things, and maybe get my 3yo gorgeous colt long-reining with a view to breaking to harness .... so many lovely chill-out things I could find for you to do! :o) Pesky (talk) 12:00, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
I wish! Except that I think you are even cloudier than we have been! Other than that, however, it's a lovely invite and I truly wish I could take you up on it! Maybe someday, Ealdgyth got to the UK last year, I was last there in the for here, I hear tall tales that there is this round, bright object in the sky that they call the "sun." And when it is visible the sky is blue instead of gray. And in theory the world is green, not pukey tired brown. In fact, I think I have a memory of something like this, once, many months ago. They are predicting more fricking SNOW (%#@!%^&@!) for tomorrow! Will spring EVER arrive?? Montanabw(talk) 05:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

<outdent> September and October are good times for visiting the New Forest. We almost always get an Indian Summer down this way, and there are things like the drifts (round ups) going on, too. Pesky (talk) 10:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

On that note, you might want to add UK info and maybe a redirect at Muster (livestock). Montanabw(talk) 21:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

DYK for History of the horse in Britain

The DYK project (nominate) 16:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

My pleasure, and keep up the good work. You'll find that in most cases, broad categories like "History" or "United Kingdom" will have multiple subcategories that are more suitable for the purpose. - Biruitorul Talk 18:49, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Although I first came to WP in 2006, I had a 5 year break before coming back, and this is my first real article, so still very much learning the ropes here Pesky (talk) 19:13, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Damn, 9300 page views.... And that is without the late incoming statistics. Great job!-- Kim van der Linde at venus 04:01, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Congrats Pesky (and Kim!) Good work! Montanabw(talk) 05:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I am totally amazed by the number of views - I really didn't expect anything like that amount :o) 9453 as of now. Great hook you did for it, Kim - thank you so much! Pesky (talk) 10:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC) 10,555 now! Incredible Pesky (talk) 04:33, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Happy Appies

Hi Pesky, I'd like to invite you to take a look at Appaloosa. We are going to be nominating it for FA in a few days, and I'd be curious as to the views of a non-American reader who still knows a lot about horses in general. (And yes, this may be a setup, I am also inviting some other people, may want to check my contribs before commenting... ;-) ) The three of us who have done the most work on it are probably a bit too bleary-eyed to see it fresh. Montanabw(talk) 23:16, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

It's looking good (I'm AGF'ing on the references and so on - quite sure that among you all you'll have been pretty careful with those anyway!) - I just made a few minor copy-edits here and there mainly for fluency in reading, but nothing major required, I would think. Pesky (talk) 05:28, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Just adding this: "Up to 80% of all uveitis cases...." - what exactly does this mean? Can we get a better way of wording this, as up to 80% can include everything from 0% to 80%! - Is it, for example, 75-80%? Or 50 - 80%? Or what? Pesky (talk) 06:01, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll peek at it. I think it's the way the source put it, but if there is a range that narrows it down, you raise a good point. Montanabw(talk) 17:18, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
If the source doesn't say anything more specific, you could say something along the lines of "Possibly as many as 80% ...", which would not go beyond what the source said, but would sound much better. After all, if I nit-pick over the 'up to' thing, others will do so too - and not as nicely! Pesky (talk) 08:13, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
I checked the source, it flat-out says "80%" =:-O I think we were weaseling to appease the Appy people. Unless they've changed their position recently, the ApHC was claiming that the blindness thing is "caused by one type of wormer" (!) What's even spookier for them is that the recent studies of the Lp gene suggest that yep, it's all connected...spots, sclera, ERU, rat tails, all of it. All of which is scary, because Appaloosa numbers are in decline at the moment anyway, and so we have a breed registry getting into a siege mentality. Of course, with frame overo also being the causative factor for LWS, the Paint Horse people are in denial too...sigh. I sort of got into the color genetics stuff due to my interest in genetic diseases in horses, and now I'm just hooked on DNA stuff, I guess. Oh well, genetic diseases are not the only problem in the horse industry, don't get me started on animal abuse -- we get worse vandalism of articles with the Tennessee Walking Horse one, where anon IPs periodically go in there and blank the section on soring... as they say in AA, "denial ain't just a river in Egypt." Are horse people as dysfunctional and nuts in the UK as they are over here? Or are horse people just a more intense microcosm of the human race? (sigh) Montanabw(talk) 17:28, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Btw Pesky, you're also now officially chosen to be the next in line to be devoured by copyediting Finnhorse. Monty is already chopped-up and well-done. Pitke (talk) 19:09, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Ooh, Pitke, I shall so look forward to it, lol! Montana: horse people are just the same as any other cross-section of the community. Totally bloody nuts. Pesky (talk) 19:27, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Pesky did some good c/e work. With Finnhorse in UK English, that should even be easier. BTW PItke, when shall we put Finnhorse up for GA? I think it's there now, and with Pesky's article ahead of you in the queue, we can see the mood in GA land while you await your turn. FA is a weird world and I highly recommend that you observe the gauntlet we will be running with Appaloosa before you try it yourself at home on anything that matters to you! But GA anytime, IMHO. Montanabw(talk) 20:26, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Done. Pitke (talk) 21:24, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


...some pesky person VANDALISED your user page :-)

...with NO edit summary! [2]

See you soon, I hope? :-)  Chzz  ►  05:11, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Haha! Yep, c u soon :o) Pesky (talk) 05:13, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Henderson Street


If you have any free time, could you possibly cast your eyes over Henderson Street, for Lisaseventyfive (talk · contribs)? I've looked a little myself,'d be great if you could either just edit it, or make suggestions to that user. Cheers!  Chzz  ►  20:25, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

WOWOOOOOOOOW! What an incredible editor :o) Very nice-looking article, too. I've dropped a note on their user talk page to say hi, and to let them know I'll wander through it with the copy-editing magic wand and tweak it here and there, but I'll probably be a bit WikiQuiet over the next couple of days, as I have another operation coming up on Thursday, so there are quite a few things I need to catch up with in RL (like putting up cupboards, mowing lawn, stuff like that, all of which are a tad tricky to achieve whilst on crutches, lol!) Pesky (talk) 09:25, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

RfA reform

Hi ThatPeskyCommoner/Archive 2. I have now moved the RfA reform and its associated pages to project space. The main page has been updated and streamlined. We now also have a new table on voter profiles. Please take a moment to check in and keep the pages on your watchlist. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Henderson Street article

Hi Pesky,

Thanks for your time. It'd be great if you could take a look over the article when you have a moment and let me know what you think. (I'm starting to figure out why you might need to take a five year wiki break after doing one article!!) I'm pleased you are impressed with mine, so far, though.... It was quite alot of work and I think my biggest fear was it would just get deleted the minute I put it out there but that didn't happen - thankfully! Chzz has given me lots of help since it went up. I've been telling him I plan to try and sort out the photos a bit - he realigned them all to the right for me, but I'd like to have them laid out better so they're more integrated into to the various sections of the article. I also want to improve the Categories section with more links and sort out the co-ordinates on google maps so that a wikipedia 'W' symbol appears on the map - like it does for other articles.... These are the things I plan to do over the next few days - when I get a chance. Chzz also suggested I put the article up for peer review.... I had a look at how that works this morning but lots of the ones aiming for peer review seem to be already labelled as GAs or, good articles - and I'm not sure mine's got that status yet or even how it ends up getting GA status! There's alot of new wiki concepts and jargon that I'm only just starting to be aware of/figure out....! Anyhow, thanks for looking the article over. Your time and input are much appreciated Lisaseventyfive (talk) 10:31, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome :o) More than welcome, in fact. Chzz is absolutely brill - quite one of the best teachers I've ever encountered in over five decades of life ..... errrrk! I am getting too old! I think it's a stupendous article, so far, and unlikely to encounter any major problems if you put it up for GA (though as I'm still a kinda-newbie I'm probably not the best judge of that). I have my first 'come-back' article up for GA review at the mo, and will see how that goes. Chzz (and no doubt a few others) are your best bets for the techie-stuff-side of your article; my main input is likely to be just minor copy-edit type tweaks just to improve fluency of reading (I've just done this on another really good, but quite chunky, article for someone else.) I'm not likely to do any major changes - the biggest stuff I'll do on "someone else's article" (not that we WP:OWN anything over here!) would be to chop a paragraph around and re-align it slightly if it needed it; I haven't had tiome yet to have a real look through yours but from a first glance it doesn't look as though much housekeeping of that sort would be needed. I'll probably get around to it after Thursday, once I;m sure that I;m not still in post-anaesthetic brain-fog (Jeeze, one can do some really stupid stuff under the influence of recent anaesthesia, lol!), though I may do some random little bits before then. Pesky (talk) 10:42, 12 April 2011 (UTC)


Hey Pesky. I noticed you outdent a lot. Rather than typing '<outdent>', you may find it easier to use {{od}} or {{od2}}. Just a suggestion, as they're much easier to type :P. Regards, Swarm X 21:18, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! I didn't know how to do that - I shall try to remember. I outdent coz I lose track of the number of colons, lol! Pesky (talk) 04:20, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
I can manage up to two or three levels, then I just hit the colon key and hold it down -- unless the ensuing column is so narrow my answer takes six inches of screen space, and then I outdent! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 22:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Totally Non-WP - Oh, Dear!

Little colt has just discovered the reason for hormones ...... time for him to say goodbye to his 'bits', lol! Shame I couldn't get him up together to go through the stallion inspections :o( Pesky (talk) 08:39, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes, it's too bad that we don't have a reversible procedure for certain humans at certain ages--for similar reasons! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 22:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
I really wanted to keep him entire, mainly because he has the bestest temperament I've ever encountered in an un-cut colt. He's the small type of Forester, probably won't go over 13 hands (if that), so would generally have been used for producing small kiddies' ponies - and IMHO the most important three things for little kids' ponies are temperament, temperament, and temperament. But the Breed Society's standards are (ew) they like them to be presented fat at colt inspections (3yo's with body-mass and shape of 5yo's), and I hate fat youngstock. They also like them to be really full of themselves (i.e. out of their heads on concentrates ......), and the little guy is just sooooooo laid-back he's almost horizontal. So he's for the chop, sadle, as his last testing date has just flown by, and I simply haven't had the time available to do what needed to be done with him for him to get through. Pesky (talk) 07:46, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Finnhorse stuff

Been through that and done a load of minor tweaks, concatenation of short sentences, bits and pieces and odds and sods and random stuff. Dropped a not on its talk page about things ending in 'aly' - I haven't a clue what that means, so don't know if it makes sense. Suggest that we find another explanation or wossname - if I don;t know what it is, it's quite likely that many other readers also won't have a clue. And I hypehated pre-war because my brain always has to do a double take on it, having first attempted to pronounce it to rhyme with 'brewer', before being able to decode is as 'pre war'! Pesky (talk) 11:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll do a double-peek and see if there is anything that doesn't work. Overall, the WP gods don't like hyphens, but there is some US-UK English dispute over that. Not to be anal-retentive or anything! Montanabw(talk) 16:35, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
(talk page stalker)Pre-war
The term pre-war or prewar (antebellum) is usually applied to the most recent or significant war in a culture's history. (Oxford American dictionary). --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:12, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Hiya Kudpung! It's nice to have you on my little list of stalkers :o) I have real trouble reading some non-hyphenated words sometimes - being a Brit, I suppose, means I was brought up with hyphens. And I do believe that if we were to unhyphenate everything, we'd be in 'dange'r of speaking German, lol! Consider Montanas comment above .... "I'll do a doublepeek and see if there is anything that doesn't work. Overall, the WP gods don't like hyphens, but there is some USUK English dispute over that. Not to be analretentive or anything!" Pesky (talk) 10:21, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
In this case, UK English wins as being the form used in Finnhorse. There was a discussion concerning why it's that way, I believe it's in either the article's, mine, or Monty's talk archive. Pitke (talk) 11:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Even UK English is killing off the hyphen, haven't seen "to-day" in a loooooong time, but for minor stuff, I'm not going to kick, I think there's a bot that is going around killing the unneeded hyphens. Pitke is right that UK English is used for Finnhorse (basically because it either was started in UK English or its major expansion was done that way, I don't object to that decision) Nonetheless, we Yanks don't merge analretentive, (or most other words) we'd make it two words. Anal retentive! There's actually a book and t-shirts here on the topic! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 22:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
I Need That Book :D Pitke (talk) 05:00, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── What really gets me is the way there's no logic to concatenating 'any' and 'some' into words. Anyhow, anywhere, anybody .... all perfectly OK. Anytime, not OK. Why? Beats me. Pesky (talk) 04:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Henderson Street article

Hey there, Just to say thanks for your help with Henderson Street... You did a good job I think - so cheers for that! Lisaseventyfive (talk) 14:29, 13 April 2011 (UTC) Oh - and good luck with the post-op brain fog!? I've been there...It's a very odd place!Lisaseventyfive (talk) 14:32, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. It's a really nice article - glad to see it's been approved for DYK, too! That's really great :o) The post-op thing, I've been there so many times ....... this was my 13th op in 27 months! Pesky (talk) 04:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Congrats! DUUUUUDE!

Congrats on your first GA! I think it also set a land speed record for sailing through once it got noticed! Wow! Way to go! Or as some kids say these days (or maybe it was a few years ago) DUUUUDE! Montanabw(talk) 22:10, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

OK, I am amazed, lol! Pesky (talk) 03:49, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
W00.  Chzz  ►  03:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Well done! --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:48, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! I am just soooooooo pleased. Will prob put it up for FA some time soon, too. What would you think needs to be done with it to get it through that one? Pesky (talk) 05:50, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


Can you help me out? Part of a liaison thingy between Wikipedia and some US universities, students are writing articles as part of their course.

I's not your subject area. However, you're clearly a genius and master Wikipedian...therefore...please please have a look at two articles, and provide any feedback/comments etc on the talk page

Note: the main idea is to suggest things on the talk, to the students - it's fine to edit the page, of course, but the more important - bigger picture - is to help 'em get more from their Wikipedia experience...hence, if you can show them how to make it better...that would be SuperPerfectAndWonderful.

Anything - any comments at all - would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  03:54, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

You flatterer, you! I shall take a look. Pesky (talk) 09:28, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Done. Pesky (talk) 11:24, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Henderson Street

Note from Chzz: This DYK template is given to the person who nominates the article - ie, I got it. But, you deserve a copy, to record the fact that you were instrumental in making this DYK happen, so I copied it here. Thanks again, and お疲れ様でした.  Chzz  ►  16:55, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

The DYK project (nominate) 16:04, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Nice, thanks :o) Pesky (talk) 16:57, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

RfA reform

Hi Pesky. Things seem to be slowing down a bit. Do consider joining the coordinator list and rounding up some support among the Task Force members. I've done this once or twice already by pasting messages on their talk pages but I don't have time to keep doing this. Perhaps you could talk to the other coords and get them to share the task. We've done so much work on this project already, it would be a shame to let it all slide. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:57, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I shall try; there is a possibility that it has slowed down because we may be at the stage where something (possibly the Clerks idea) can be taken to the next stage, perhaps? I shall issue a call for more volunteer clerks, maybe that will wake up some people :o) Pesky (talk) 08:59, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Well, with the caveat that that is probably something that might be best done later. As I said, if we are proposing the reform project and the clerks, the task force will almost certainly be seen as a power cabal. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:17, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
It might jog a few people's memories and get the reading through some stuff again and chiming in, though. As well as adding to the volunteer list. Pesky (talk) 11:42, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
The more I think about it, the less I think signing up clerk volunteers now is a good idea. The clerk idea should go before the community, to at least get some outside views. Then we should be considering requesting volunteers. At the moment, the only volunteers we are likely to get are in the task force, definately creating a cabal-esque look. WormTT · (talk) 12:06, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── (only because the fopnt on my computer has suddently gone so stupidly small that I have no hope of counting the colons ......) Yes, point taken. I'll remove that bit from my 'nudges'. Pesky (talk) 12:11, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

OK, I've sent out a load of nudges (with apologies and invitations to squelch me over on WP:EfD), so we'll see what comes of that. Pesky (talk) 12:51, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Kudpung, having looked at what you want co-ordinators to do (including keeping on track ...) I'm probably not a good bet, lol! But I can do 'chasing' stuff for y'all :o) Little WolfCubby tasks and hunting missions. Pesky (talk) 12:53, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Reviewer granted

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Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged revisions, underwent a two-month trial which ended on 15 August 2010. Its continued use is still being discussed by the community, you are free to participate in such discussions. Many articles still have pending changes protection applied, however, and the ability to review pending changes continues to be of use.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under level 1 pending changes and edits made by non-reviewers to level 2 pending changes protected articles (usually high traffic articles). Pending changes was applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges.

For the guideline on reviewing, see Wikipedia:Reviewing. Being granted reviewer rights doesn't grant you status nor change how you can edit articles even with pending changes. The general help page on pending changes can be found here, and the general policy for the trial can be found here.

If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

Dabomb87 (talk) 22:21, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation

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Capacity theory, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Thank you for helping Wikipedia!

mauchoeagle 18:05, 25 April 2011 (UTC)



Jarry was on IRC last night, but unfortunately we both missed him. He said this;

[21:27] <Jarry1250> Pesky: I have responded to your concerns on the GA talk page. Unfortunately I am not at home tomorrow evening, which is the deadline.

[21:27] <Jarry1250> So at this point we really need to decide what needs doing for a GA pass and what is an optional extra I will work on in the next week.

Thus - today (28th), is the 'wiki cup' deadline. Of course, that will not affect judgement of GA-level, but it would be nice if we could try and decide what else is needed, for the article to meet the requirements of GA, and if it can be made to meet those standards by end of play 28th. I hate working to these type of deadlines - it is always a bit of a dilemma, and really (after past experiences) I should have known better than agreeing to take on such a task with a fixed date.

I hope to discuss this with you later on today. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  23:45, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to clarify the above;
If possible, today (28th) I would like us to step back from the article, and evaluate whether or not it meets GA requirements - and if not, if we can fix it.
If it can - great; we can meet Jarry's "deadline" (viz. his desire, if possible, to obtain this GA pass by end of day, 28th, UTC)
If it cannot, so be it - we're not beholden to deadlines, and I said I'd try to help get it done by 28th, making no guarantee.
I believe you have, by now, checked most (if not all) of the 'checklist' I mentioned. And I note that, on the GA1 page, Jarry has tried to address all concerns raised.
So - let's see what we can do, today. I hope I will be around, and that we can discuss it.
Just in-case that is not possible, I will leave here final instructions re. how to close a GA successfully.
Note: I'm asbolutely not advocating signing anything off until you're totally happy it meets requirements - but let me make clear which are actual requirements as opposed to optional suggestions for improvement;

Final check stage

(How I, Chzz, do things at the end of the GA process)

The specific requirement for a GA are in Wikipedia:Good article criteria.

I 'step back', and re-read the article, with those requirements in mind.

  • If it meets those, I create a new level 3 section on the GA1 page, e.g. === GA Checklist === and I copy in the criteria - as follows (and you could copy-paste from this);

1. Well-written:

  • (a) the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct
  • (b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, jargon, words to avoid, fiction, and list incorporation.

2. Factually accurate and verifiable:

  • (a) it provides references to all sources of information, and at minimum contains a section dedicated to the attribution of those sources in accordance with the guide to layout;
  • (b) at minimum, it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons
  • (c) it contains no original research.

3. Broad in its coverage:

  • (a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;
  • (b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias.

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day-to-day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

6. Illustrated, if possible, by images:

  • (a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content
  • (b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

I then add inline comments on each of the above, with reference to the specific article. For an example, please see Talk:Nicol_David/GA1#GA_Checklist.

  • I add a final statement declaring the pass, such as This article has passed the GA review process, and I will promote it to GA status (and maybe a big stamp, [[Image:Symbol_support_vote.svg|80px|left]].

Then there's the technical sign-off. I'll use the current example of Vidkun Quisling;

  • Edit the talk page of the article (not the 'GA1 subpage') - e.g. Talk:Vidkun Quisling - and replace this;

{{GA nominee|16:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)|nominator=- [[User:Jarry1250|Jarry1250]] <sup>[''[[Special:Contributions/Jarry1250|Who?]] [[User_talk:Jarry1250|Discuss]].'']</sup>|page=1|subtopic=World history|status=onreview|note=}}

...with this;

{{GA|~~~~~|page=1|topic=World history}}

Note: that's five tilde-signs, not the usual four - to add a timestamp without a sig

  • Head over to the list of good articles at Wikipedia:Good articles, and add it to the appropriate section, in the same format as others. In the case of Quisling, I think it'd be either "Historical figures: heads of state and heads of government" or "Historical figures: politicians"

...and that's it. Let the nominator know it passed, and encourage them to develop it further.

HTH,  Chzz  ►  00:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Went off the reservation

Hey Pesky and all Pesky's talk page stalkers: I sort of went beyond my usual realm and created an article, Russell and Sigurd Varian. Long story, but basically trying to keep the photos from being tossed. Silly reason, but I got into the topic and quite fascinated and, well, seven hours later... Anyway, I realize that it might even be close to GA. So would anyone care to take a look-see and either edit further or offer talk page comments? I could also use ideas for a DYK hook. I'm going to let it cool for a bit, but then maybe try for some prizes, and I DO need feedback. (Through a long, convoluted route, there IS a horse connection, brownies to the first person to find it!) Montanabw(talk) 01:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Breeders, yes? Varian Arabians? I'll get around to having a read-through sometime soon ..... Pesky (talk) 10:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Read that; looks like a perfectly good excuse for keeping photographs, lol! I think it probably is close to a GA, too :o) I'll see if I can think of a nice hook for DYK. Pesky (talk) 13:53, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Bonus points to you! The Sheila Varian article is already a GA and was a DYK, this one on her uncles is a bit farther afield for me, hence my need for help and ideas. Longer story: I kind of get a kick out of figuring out where major horse breeders got the money to fund their operation. (Everyone needs a hobby, I guess!) This one (millionaire's spunky widow making some targeted investments to help 20-year old niece get horses from behind the Iron Curtain) was a lot more interesting that the usual "my daddy was an oil millionaire" cases. Horse magazines are terrible about giving the back story on how these people got their large fortuned to blow on horses...) Montanabw(talk) 18:29, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Now I've got the GAR off my back, I'll wander through that article with the magic c/e wand some time soon for you :o) Pesky (talk) 18:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
I spotted several simple errors, but haven't had the time to go in and fix. Feel free, but have fun using US English! (LOL) Truly am going to be SWAMPED next week, stuff today created more work next week. Bleech. Montanabw(talk) 06:42, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Playing with it now! Nothing major, just tweaks here and there :o) Pesky (talk) 06:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Response to your question at AfD

Re this, now that the AfD has been closed with an application of WP:SK that doesn't pass the smell test (since when is avoiding drama a reason to close AfDs early?), I am responding here.

I didn't consider that the only interpretation of your words, to be sure ... but it's an unavoidable one. He complains about personal attacks (i.e., his userpage and early editing history being used as arguments against the nomination, which was way beyond the pale) and you say he would have been wise to withdraw the nomination early? WP:NPA is pretty clear ... personal attacks are not any more acceptable because someone nominated an article for deletion too quickly for another editor's liking than they are at any other time (And certainly Chzz can say he would have expanded the article, but at the same time was Erolos not supposed to be bold? Once the nomination was made Chzz could have focused on expanding the article rather than defending it ... it was his choice to participate in the AfD to the extent that he did. The AfD should have focused on the article, not the nominator or any of the actions leading to it. They had zero relevance to whether the article should have been deleted or not.

If you had wanted to counsel Erolos and meant what you said the way I think you meant it, it would have been better to have done so on his talk page rather than in the AfD. Daniel Case (talk) 00:51, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't offended, so you don't need to apologize. Because I've been there before ... getting a little wild at an AfD where I wanted to keep (see here ... I had to live that down at my RfA, and even now the less I look at it again the better).

Actually, I do admit your mention of the inclusionist box was sort of relevant ... for irony's sake if nothing else. Colonel Warden, IMO, was the one who went over the line. Daniel Case (talk) 05:06, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

We all do the wrong thing sometimes - it's part of 'being human', lol! And just occasionally the meds get the better of me, too ... I used to have the 'This user is old enough to know better' userbox on my page, maybe I should consider re-instating it there! It was just the irony of the inclusionist box that got to me, really. Anyhow, hopefully that's all sorted out and Kez has forgiven me. I gather he's about the age of my youngest son, so forgiveness may take a little while; if I had known that at the time, I may have reacted differently, but as they say, "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog." Pesky (talk) 08:01, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Horse, Ealdgyth

Re. seeking input to develop History of the horse in Britain,

I mentioned it to Nortonius (talk · contribs) (just because I happened to be talking to him, on his talk) and he said he'll look some time, but also he suggested [3] asking Ealdgyth (talk · contribs) - who, I just noticed on her user page, says, "I'm interested in working on horse articles as well as Medieval England"! So yes, indeed, it might be worth you asking her. I don't know that user much at all, but we both know the name from... User:Ealdgyth/GA review cheatsheet!  Chzz  ►  04:11, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I did ask Ealdgyth a while ago, but at a time when she was obviously very busy / away / just come back from being away. I'll certainly ask her for more input before I trot it over to FAC; in the meantime, I've requested 'the back half of the brain' to mull over some of the history of horse illnesses and treatments through the ages with a view to adding that stuff into the article too. Not sure whether to add a bit to each section to keep the whole article in chronological order (which I'd prefer), or whether to give it its own section (which in some ways may be better, but in other ways would interrupt the 'flow' of the whole thing as a history). Pesky (talk) 08:38, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

...or brief mentions within chrono order (about historic developments in medicine, as they occur) with wikilinks to the articles about those specific medicines, maybe?
What? We don't have articles about all of them? Well...  :-)  Chzz  ► 
We do have quite a heap of articles on horsey ailments; the WP:EQ team have been burrowing away into those quite effectively. And as the whole 'veterinary lark' is right up my street (I virtually had the entire book of Veterinary Notes for Horse Owners off by heart in the 1970's) it shouldn't be that difficult to so. Interestingly, apart from the introduction of antibiotics by that time, probably the majority of horse ailments were being treated very much the same as they had been for hundreds of years previously ...... so I have first-hand experience of all kinds of ancient mystical treatments, you might say! Did you know that you can still go into old-fashioned hardware stores and buy Spirits of Salts (yup, still under that delightful old name!) which was regularly used as a part of a treatment to avoid scarring of the skin and granulation tissue formation in traumatic leg injuries? (I was one of those vile riding-instructor / stable manager examinees who actually managed to achieve a 100% pass on the 'veterinary' section of the exam ........) Pesky (talk) 08:54, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Mhm, and Spirits of salt redirects, and there's no mention of horsies. Makes sense though, yeah. I'm just thinking that, well e.g. that one, we could easily have "Spirits of salt" as a separate article - referring to HCl, but taking about the actual item and applications, which would include horses. Or, we could probably support "Spirits of salt (horse treatment)" or maybe that'd be "Hydrochloric acid (horse treatment)", maybe not; IDK. Hmm.  Chzz  ►  08:59, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Here's a really cool (to watch) treatment for seedy toe, canker, deep thrush and other foot infections / ailments: cut out the wound insofar as is possible, pack with iodine crystals, then pour turpentine (pure) on top ....... fsssssshhhhhhhh! clouds of steamy stuff (brownish), loads of fizzy stuff, iodine gets driven deep into all the bits you couldn't dig out to clean .... actually works quite well. Nowadays, of course, we have aerosol antibiotic sprays (blue) for the same jobbie ... and of course one of the really ancient 'intrasigent canker' treatments is now coming right back in - turned full circle on that wheel - pack with maggots.

Could be tricky to find RS for a lot of the old ones, as they were passed down word-of-mouth, father-to-son, through the old grooms and ostlers, many of whom couldn't read. Example - I know some of the stuff lurking in my memory because I used to hang out with an ancient saddler (ancient when I was young), who was the late-in-life son of the head ostler at one of the coaching inns ..... while learning saddlery tips, I would listen for hours to all his other old stories  :o) Pesky (talk) 09:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Luckily, the 1912 Britannica (or one of those) is in the public domain, is an RS for the old stuff, and can be rather hilarious -- we have a few wikipedia articles where it's the ONLY source we have! Check out feague. Montanabw(talk) 20:52, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Ooooh, great! Pesky (talk) 09:12, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Russell and Sigurd Varian

The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 6 May 2011 (UTC)