User talk:ThatPeskyCommoner/Archive 3

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Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4

Neil Armstrong

Thanks for chipping in at Neil Armstrong. I'm now underway with the reviewing of the page, and I hope my effort won't be wasted. What was the page that you recommended to me on IRC again? I want to see all the changes that took place during the six-day review. Could you have a look at Airbus A330 for me? It's nearly reached FA status, and I'm wondering what you think of the article – is it informative, easy to understand, comprehensive, correct, or all four? Anyway, back to work ... --Sp33dyphil ReadytoRumble 12:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome! The article I suggested you look at, to see what happened during the review, was Vidkun_Quisling. Check the diffs out from the time it started into review, compare against the talk page entries, and see what sort of things were being done. I was mentored through the review as it was my first one, and had some really excellent helpers and inputters there. The other thing you'll want to look at is Ealdgyth's GA Review cheatsheet, which is brilliant. (Ealdgyth also has other good stuff, such as User:Ealdgyth/FAC, Sources, and You, for FA.)As and when I get some spare minutes I'll try and look at Airbus A330 ... trouble is that spare minutes are in short supply! Pesky (talk) 22:19, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Comments on DYK for Varian bros

There are comments at Template_talk:Did_you_know#Russell_and_Sigurd_Varian:

  • The hook does not include the article name. Revised hook must less than 200 chars.
  • Otherwise OK: from under 100 chars to 15512 in 5 days; hook is in the body and has good enough citation; has citations in all paras (incl lead!) --Philcha (talk) 14:33, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

PS Please notify me at my Talk page when you've fixed the hook. --Philcha (talk)

Pesky, I tweaked it and told Philcha. Montanabw(talk) 20:58, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Great, should be good to go now. Seems a bit odd though - when the History of the horse in Britain thing went for DYK, it didn't have the actual article title in it - just a piped link. Maybe different people work to slightly different guidelines. Pesky (talk) 09:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I sort of just never question the wikigods on what their policy is this week, unless I really need to! :-D. Would you take a peek at the talk at Appaloosa and offer a UK perspective on spotted horses? JLAN seems to be upset that we aren't paying enough attention to the worldwide aspects of this breed, and I think he is also arguing that it's not a breed at all, just a word for horses with spots. Anyway, I'm losing my temper about it, as we were about to go for FA on this article, but now with an active dispute, we are derailed until it's settled. Montanabw(talk) 18:15, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
From my recollections of Appaloosa, I thought it was giving enough weight to the non USA appies; my only 'growl' at the Appaloosa society is that they don't include (for example) minaiture spotteds, and my only reason for that growl is that it's obviously the same set of genes responsible in anything other than the 'approved' breed as it is in anything else leopard. But that's a growl at the breed society, not at the article. The Knabstruppers I think you covered fairly well, just off the top of my head, but I will take another look at the article. I think JLAN is being a bit ..... errrmmmm .... JLANish, possibly. Any 'breed' which has a clear genetic basis has to be a 'breed', really. And the history is pretty ancient - far more so than on many of the other breeds. Yer Appaloosa is far more recognisably a breed than (for example) the Cleveland Bay (which, on the face of it, could really be any pure-bay-breeding line of lightish warmblood ... there aren't really any clearly visible characteristics which define them, which don't also occur in many other breeds). Pesky (talk) 08:08, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. We have both happy Appies and crappy Appies but Appies are Appies and would take great offense to merely being horses with spots! LOL! Having trained some (people figured if I could train Arabs I must be able to train Appies, go figure...), I can testify that if the Arabian is the Border Collie of the horse world, the Appaloosa is the Jack Russell Terrier, perhaps crossed with something even more devious. (i.e. smart as a whip, but if they had opposable thumbs would sneak in the house at night and if they didn't strangle us in our sleep, they'd at least short-sheet all the beds!) Why they ever cooked up the idea of crossing them with, of all things, an Akhal-Teke to get the Nez Perce Horse is beyond me; the people must be gluttons for punishment! Montanabw(talk) 17:21, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Maybe they were looking for a challenge? Pesky (talk) 07:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Well, it's pretty sleepy around Kamiah, Idaho, I guess. When we've stopped there for gas, seems like the whole town was hanging out at the Mini-Mart. Montanabw(talk) 21:20, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Music Beta by Google


I was hoping to catch up with you later, but in case my internet fails me again, I'll leave a note here;

Non-urgent - we have 5 days - but, Logan (talk · contribs) has written Music Beta by Google (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), which should be fine as DYK - and I think you're great at thinking up tag-lines, so can you take a look?

If you think of something cool, feel free to just nom it.

Hope to see you soon. BTW, I had a happy 'cooking accident' today, based on your advice; 'coz I had all the mushies (2 for 1 thing), I decided to make a quick omelette; only had 2 eggs, and used far too many 'shrooms, and crap pan, so it was more scrambled-egg-and-mushroom. But, threw in a bit of garlic, then remembered you'd said basil/egg was good; added a bit of ham, too, and a squirt of tom puree. And, it was lovely :-)

See ya soon,  Chzz  ►  18:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll trundle over and take a look now. And yup, basil can be the all-purpose rescuer for uninspired savoury dishes ......... :o) And the smell of it, on your fingers, when you've just stripped some leaves off, is yummy. Someone should invent basil-scented aftershave! Pesky (talkstalk!) 04:17, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm sure Sybil would love it.  Chzz  ►  04:18, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
... or despise it? Pesky (talkstalk!) 04:25, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is committing a crime against humanity

Article 26 of the UN Charter for Human Rights -

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

Judging from the actions of some admins, they are trying to restrict my pupils right to learn. So if Wikipedia keeps this up, my school might have to file a complaint with the U.N . Thank You. --MrPurcellsClass (talk) 12:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

We would love to help in educating your pupils, or anyone elses. However, part of said education must surely be learning to behave according to community guidelines, which are there to help keep Wikipedia as good as it is.  Chzz  ►  12:34, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
And why is Pesky's talk page the place where any of this is being debated, anyway? She's not even an admin. Montanabw(talk) 17:40, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Worry not, MTBW - it was a troll, lol! Pesky (talkstalk!) 09:11, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Discreet request

Pesky, I'm asking you, a trusty soul, to peek at Arabian horse. You might be the only person at WPEQ who hasn't seen it 10 million times until your eyes have blurred! It was the first article I edited on WP and I think my first GA. When it came up for a GAR, Ealdgyth and I did a ton of work on it a couple years ago, too. Dana went in and did some work as well. I'm afraid to ever take it to FA because there's some stuff in there that I personally think should be there that may not survive the FAR process -- it's also a long, complex article and that alone might kill it. But, nonetheless, could you be so kind as to give it a look see, maybe fix anything blatently poor and comment on the talk page if you have suggestions for improvement? I'm waaayyyy too involved to have any objectivity whatsoever, but I trust your common sense. If Appaloosa survives the FA gaunlet, I might reconsider my position. (Though I might want to get a couple other articles to GA first...) But at any rate, call this a pre-pre-pre-pre FA review that could result in a "oh never mind..." ;-) Montanabw(talk) 21:13, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure; I'm doing a GA review atm, but will look through it when I have some (hahaha) 'spare time' again! Pesky (talkstalk!) 11:09, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Not a rush, it will take me a while to work up the courage to run the gauntlet. Montanabw(talk) 01:40, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
If user Montanabw needs help, I can chip in. Sp33dyphil ReadytoRumble 07:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi Sp33dyphil, if you promise to be really, really nice (grin), I WOULD value the eyes of a non-horse person on that article with thoughts and comments at the talk page there. (but please, not on my talk page, I have a few hostile TPS-ers that I'd prefer not to awaken) I'm all for improving structure, organization, layout, language, etc...But I'm also happy to keep it at GA if going to FA would mean making it less comprehensive. I basically don't want to scratch what doesn't itch, but on the other hand FA would be cool. So putting a pinky toe in the water. So, sure, a view from a non-horse person with fresh eyes would be very nice. Montanabw(talk) 00:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Music Beta by Google

The DYK project (nominate) 09:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Truth DYK

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Truth (British periodical) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!

That was prompt! Unfortunately, I have to log off now, and I'll be back with replies later today. I hope you forgive this rude interruption on my part, it is the only reason why I haven't replied yet on the DYK page. But I promise I will look into it. Regards, Dahn (talk) 13:15, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
No worries! I have a source (again link to a pdf from online NYT archive) for the reference to "unruly". Pesky (talkstalk!) 13:28, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi again. You are right about the wording being too much, but I think a mention of Nazi Germany is still important for context, since it doesn't require the readers to pick out the clues from fascism and Quisling paper. To clear out the possibility of any misunderstanding: in this edit summary, I mean to say "editors in general", or "readers of wikipedia" - it's only after I wrote it that I realized it could be read as an irony aimed at the "editors of the page", which, I assure you, isn't how I meant it. Best, Dahn (talk) 11:28, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I think a 'mention' of it is OK, (probably in parentheses) but not as much as went in there! Bloody Wedgie was a really baaad person when he did that - it was purely personal and intended to cause trouble! (and even he didn't actually make it as strong as that - worried about getting himself into too much trouble, I expect, despite the 'immunity' thing!) Pesky (talkstalk!) 11:43, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I guess you're right, but then again he mentioned "Quisling", and that pretty much creates the inflammatory connection. I mean, he called them fascist and Quisling, which is saying "you'd want the Nazis to win". Since the precise meanings of the terms has been worn out worldwide in the past 60 years, I thought it was only natural to indicate somewhere in the text (indeed, without saying too much) about what the accusation had for a context. For precision.
Technically, to just be fascist was not necessarily scandalous at the time - for instance, Greece fought alongside Britain while under a fascist regime, and my own country was fascist some 2 years before it stopped being pro-Allied. Sure, most fascists in England were also (interned as) pro-Nazi, but that's only one drop in the ocean, as far as our global readership is concerned. As for the Quisling reference, one unfamiliar with the terminology would have to click the link, read through the article, and relate it to the the vague context presented in the Truth article, to understand that it is somehow about being pro-Nazi after war (and the siege of Britain) had started.
Btw, I think by this moment in our conversation you realized that we're both "pesky" editors :). In any case, I hope you like the current wording and agree with my points above; but if you don't and feel it should be tweaked, I won't revert you or anything. Either way, it's a nice article. Dahn (talk) 13:11, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Hey Dahn, I think I may have come up with a good win-win wording for that section - just a minor re-jig, which I hope will leave all concerned happy with it. ANd "Welcome to the Pesky Editors' Club"! Have a giggle, too, at what Wedgie actually did (read the Hansard reports) - if he'd been in a court of law, they'd have done him for "gross misrepresentation" of the stuff he was actually reading from the paper ....... Pesky (talkstalk!) 13:31, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
It's now perfect, thank you. Funny indeed, and I loved the cranky: "If the Germans did achieve that very high degree of success, I should imagine that they would take their own steps." Dahn (talk) 13:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Wonderful, isn't it! Pesky (talkstalk!) 15:26, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────You seriously made me giggle when you said "Wedgie." Not sure if UK has the same meaning or if this use is a uniquely American form. Montanabw(talk) 22:48, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it does have the same meaning .... delicious ambiguity, there. Josiah was one of those people who could apparently get right up your arse .... Pesky (talkstalk!) 04:56, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


Where are the clerks? This: Should be indented IMO. this is plain old disruption. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:22, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Where are the clerks? We don't have them yet ...... idea still needs to be implemented! Go for it ! Pesky (talkstalk!) 04:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


Task Force news: Recent updates include basic minor changes and condensing at the main page, additional comments on the main page talk page, a new project sub page and talk for Radical Alternatives, and messages at Task force talk. A current priority is to reach suggested criteria/tasks for clerks, and then to establish a local consensus vis-à-vis clerking. Please remember to keep all the project and its talk pages on your watchlist. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:30, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Truth (British periodical)

Materialscientist (talk) 16:05, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


I have added some dates and other info. There is a query over one of the important dates, where the existing information is clearly wrong. I have left a note on the article talk page. Tim riley (talk) 16:37, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Yup, my fault (sorry). Fixed now. Pesky (talkstalk!) 10:55, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
You were after some more info on Truth. I have uploaded a useful article on the early years into my personal webspace: you can get at it via this link. Hope it's of use. Tim riley (talk) 15:06, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Oooh, you wonderful person! Thanks so much - I can now add a heap of extra information to the article :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 17:20, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


Hi Pesky! Long time no talk :) Recently, Montanabw, Ealdgyth and I have been eying Horse with a view towards taking it to FAC later this summer. We have all stared at it so much that we can barely even see basic typos now, so we're hoping for some outside input from other horsey editors. If you have the time (I would say an extra few minutes, but it's a rather long article!), it would be much appreciated if you could stop by, have a look and see if there's anything major (or minor) that we're missing. Thanks in advance, Dana boomer (talk) 18:00, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Yup, when I feel a bit more healthy I'll take a look. Pesky (talkstalk!) 04:36, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Eric Matheny

[03:46] <Chzz> can u do me a favour (if you want)
[03:47] <Chzz> DKY [[Eric Matheny]]
[03:47] <Pesky> Ask me again later this morning?

I'd forget, so here it is. It's only a 'if you want' thing. Seems just big enough, and ref'd enough, I think. Eric Matheny (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) o/  Chzz  ►  02:51, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I == Up for another GA review? ==

My latest effort: Klemens von Metternich (still needs its lead rewritten, otherwise finished). Up for doing another review? (Quisling is currently up for FAC btw :) ) Regards, - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 20:23, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I read that you have been indisposed. I have since found myself another, less appreciative reviewer :P My loss I suppose! Get well soon. - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 12:21, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Oops, sorry! I missed seeing your request here. I'm improving, health-wise, and hope to be back up to speed soon. Pesky (talkstalk!) 12:24, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Earth to Pesky??

Hey! Where are ya, pup? We've been missing you! Are you doing OK? Montanabw(talk) 03:42, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey guys; I have been attacked by an Evil Dreaded Lurghie!  :o( It left me unable to get out of bed for more than 10 minutes at a time for about a week, and now is being followed by the inevitable chest infection, hence my prolonged absence! I am recovering, though, and should be back to normal in a short while. Best to all; catch up with you when I feel a bit more steady of my feet / seat. Pesky (talkstalk!) 04:35, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
That's a good British word, "Lurgie" -- now precisely are we talking just a bad case of the flu, or some sort of e coli sort of thing? Either way, it sounds miserable and you have all of our sympathies! Get well soon! Montanabw(talk) 06:47, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
I think it was most likely a Coxsackie virus thing (flu-ish, but knocked me endways for over a week!) The sort of bug where you have to go and lie down again to recover from the effort of getting up and booting the computer ..... not much fun, but appears to be on the way out now. Poor Other Half, though! Lumped with doing 90% of the parent-care, plus me-care, plus the usual perpetual taxi-and-financial-advice service for all the various offspring ..... I'm getting back to normal slowly, but still feel stupidly "feak and weeble" a lot of the time. Ecpext to see a bit more of me gradually over the next few days :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 10:36, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Yuck, you have my sympathies (FWIW, I also am dealing with the aging parent issue, though fortunately for me (and them), not in-house. ) I hope you get to feeling better soon. Take good care of yourself! Montanabw(talk) 01:59, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

This might aid in your recovery, or celebrate your return:

Oooh, ta! [Schlurrrpppp] :o) I'm getting back, slowly. Pesky (talkstalk!) 06:45, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Task force WP:RFA2011 update

Hi. As of 20 June: More stats have been added on candidates and !voter participation. Details have been added about qualifications required on other Wikis for candidates and RfA !voters. Some items such as clerking, !voters, and candidates are nearing proposal stage. A quick page`link template has been added to each page of the project. Please visit those links to get up to speed with recent developments, and chime in with your comments. Thanks for your participation.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 07:57, 20 June 2011 (UTC).

Policy Stuff and clarification

Hey there, thanks for your email :o)

I'm working on the idea of setting up / joining some kind of a WikiProject to improve clarity, readability, understandability of guidelines, policies, templates, warnings Haven't got far with it yet - one of the things I'm keeping an eye out for, in my wanderings, is people who'd make a good team. Seems like you might be one of them! I have a few others in mind already; once I've let some ideas gel in my own mind, I'll start something up in user space and give links to it from the various places I'm wandering through. So - watch the spaces, and as and when said link appears, do jump on board. Cheers, Pesky (talkstalk!) 05:00, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I underwent a similar project to simplify the language at WP:PROTECTION a couple years back that went very well - most of the changes we got implemented are still there and the policy has (mostly) resisted bloating in the intervening time, and without any 'supervision'. You might be interested in digging up the history on that. One suggestion I would make is to focus on one policy page at a time, as there might be backlash if someone comes back to the policy pages and sees significant changes getting made to all of them at once. It makes for a more focused effort too. Anyway, I watchlisted all the policy pages, but please stay in touch if there are any other developments I should be aware of. Regards, --causa sui (talk) 16:58, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

wanna peek?

Hey Pesky! Good to see you again! Can you watchlist Mountain and moorland pony breeds and comment? JLAN and I are spatting again a little, basically over whether the hands conversion template should be used to give M&M height only in hands and cm (JLAN) versus using the regular hands template that provides both inches and cm conversion. His position is that in the UK, they mostly use either hands or, as on the Continent, cm (except for Shetlands, which he says are measured in inches). My position is that it doesn't matter, we just need to give all conversions so people all over the world will understand without having to pull out a calculator. It might be settled down now, but as you are A) a Brit, and B) know your ponies, I can't think of someone better to ask. Oh, and FYI, don't fret about any old edits by Nirame, he/she was blocked for sockpuppetry. (I know the difference between someone like you with strong views and someone who is a pain in the ass just to be a pain in the ass.) Montanabw(talk) 07:34, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Yup, sure. :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 07:37, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
Ummmm ... can't see the spat? Where is it? I'd definitely say use the standard convert thingie for all horse breeds, personally. Nothing wrong with more clarity. Pesky (talkstalk!) 07:46, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
I can't see it either? But I would agree with Pesky - it doesn't really matter what the home country uses, you need to provide both inches and centimeters for worldwide readers. That's why conversion templates are required in general when you're talking about mi/km, in/cm, etc. - in this case we're just adding in an extra number. Dana boomer (talk) 13:02, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
JLAN's versions. I'll take it to talk there. See diffs of whatever my last edit was compared to JLAN's last edit. Another round of "we must do it the way they do it in that country all the time." I'm too tired of this crap for another round and getting very crabby, particularly following on some junk unrelated to JLAN. Montanabw(talk) 21:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)


Thanks Pesky. That other user (Peter) and I have a pretty contentious "history," going back several years. Oil and vinegar. Just for starters, check the talk page history of Horses in warfare, where he completely derailed a FA push with his insistence that we had insufficient coverage of war horses in sub-saharan Africa. Sigh. Seems like any attempt at dialoue breaks down into personal attacks and argument for its own sake. Montanabw(talk) 18:36, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes people (like horses) are 'just like that' - or at least have days when they are 'just like that'. On the whole, I think theWP:EQ team is a good team, and capable of pulling together in multi-harness as wellas each going our own routes when needed. Real Life has been stupid recently - I'm still not 100% over the dreaded lurghie, but getting that-a-way. Over the past several weeks, if I'd been a horse myself, my owner would have been getting stressful little visits from the welfare societies, lol! Keep nudging me with stuff on my talk page - I see it (work on things here) far more often than I deal with my emails. I will try, at some point, to go an a nice Wolfcubbbish mission source-hunting for the behaviour-type articles, and I also want to get a heap of other stuff into the History article on vetty stuff, harnessy-history, law-history and etc. to work it towards FA. Ironholds (bless the lad) has promised to search out horses-and-the-law history for me to play with, as he's a legal eagle, and the more I get to know him (e-know him?) the more he seems like an all-around good egg. Same kind of vintage as my youngest, which helps, I suppose - I know the type :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 07:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Your input is requested


As a member of the RfA improvement task force, your input is requested at the possible proposals page, which consists of ideas that have not yet been discussed or developed.

Please look though the ideas and leave a comment on the talk page on the proposal(s) you would most like to see go forward. Your feedback will help decide which proposals to put to the community. And, as always, feel free to add new suggestions. Thanks!

Swarm, coordinator, RfA reform 2011

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 07:55, 28 June 2011 (UTC).

I think you will find this fun

Amusing article on writing!

[Pesky hugs the Oxford Comma...] Pesky (talkstalk!) 03:45, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


Very well said. Thank you. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 20:10, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! It's an important point which sadly, so many people completely miss! Pesky (talkstalk!) 03:46, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
I also thought it was a brilliant statement. I'm wondering where else I could paste it for better exposure. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:10, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
[blushes] Thanks, again :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 08:34, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

WP:RFA2011: RfA on other Wikipedias

A detailed table and notes have now been created and posted. It compares how RfA is carried out on major Wikipedias (English, French, German, Italian, Spanish). If you feel that other important language Wikipedias should be added, please let us know. This may however depend on our/your language skills!

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 22:48, 3 July 2011 (UTC).

Completely new abortion proposal and mediation

In light of the seemingly endless disputes over their respective titles, a neutral mediator has crafted a proposal to rename the two major abortion articles (pro-life/anti-abortion movement, and pro-choice/abortion rights movement) to completely new names. The idea, which is located here, is currently open for opinions. As you have been a contributor in the past to at least one of the articles, your thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

The hope is that, if a consensus can be reached on the article titles, the energy that has been spent debating the titles of the articles here and here can be better spent giving both articles some much needed improvement to their content. Please take some time to read the proposal and weigh in on the matter. Even if your opinion is simple indifference, that opinion would be valuable to have posted.

To avoid concerns that this notice might violate WP:CANVASS, this posting is being made to every non-anon editor who has edited either page (or either page's respective talk page) since 1 July 2010, irrespective of possible previous participation at the mediation page. HuskyHuskie (talk) 22:49, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I've re-stated my view on the title suggestion - hopefully, as I don't take sides in the debate at all, it will be seen to be a view from a totally neutral editor! I agree with you - the time spent on arguing over titles could and should have been much better spend on improvement of the relevant articles. It is incredibly hard for people who are passionately committed to one side or the other to see any benefit in any view other than their own, so I can quite understand why this has dragged on for so long, and with so much angst. But it's time to be sensible about the titles, and move on. Pesky (talkstalk!) 03:36, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
(Ah, Pesky thinks that sense has anything to do with this particular issue! I admire your optimism!  :-D ) Montanabw(talk) 19:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Choco chip cookie.png For actully agreeing and collaborating with me on Village Pump policy. GoldenGlory84 (talk) 14:07, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Awww, thanks! Pesky (talkstalk!) 02:45, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

nbsp Thing

Hi, can I just ask what the reasoning is behind the addition of these? They were added to a few articles last night and I know they're meant to make a space but why are they necessary here and only between certain elements? Thanks for readingDarkwarriorblake (talk) 10:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi there - it's to stop things like dates and so on splitting over lines (see Wikipedia:MOS#Non-breaking_spaces), where it could make reading awkward. Pesky (talkstalk!) 10:04, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
K, thanks for the fast reply. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 10:28, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Was just about to ask the same thing. :) -- Frous (talk) 20:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a template similar to {{date}} that inserts non-breaking spaces? {{date|2011-07-06}} is much more readable markup-wise than 6&nbsp;July&nbsp;2011... --Fru1tbat (talk) 21:49, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea! Thing is, there are times when we need non-breaking spaces in other things, too - like between, for example, $10 and million! And my biggest bugbear .... trying to insert all of them into an edit window which is 90% citation for 10% prose! Soooo hard to read what one's doing in amongst all that wall of text! Pesky (talkstalk!) 05:33, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Ya mind...

...fixin' up Tropical Storm Debra (1978)? I'd appreciate it! :) Thanks, Hurricanefan25 tropical cyclone 14:27, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Whaddaya want done? I'll wander through it and do a few bits and pieces for you :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 04:29, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Did some tweaks, concatenations, a couple of convert templates, etc. Pesky (talkstalk!) 05:18, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

A small cup of coffee.JPG Breffuss. Logan Talk Contributions 07:50, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Parks and Recreation

Hey. I saw that you recently did what looks like a pretty read-through of Parks and Recreation. I've listed that article at WP:GAN. Perhaps you'd consider reviewing it there? Thanks either way! — Hunter Kahn 14:47, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm actually just working my way through the GANs adding all the necessary non-breaking spaces (and correcting the occasional typo, if I see it in passing); it's really a case of adding my mite towards getting them up to GA standard without having to get too heavily involved with any particular article. I have done GA reviews but at the moment don't have enough spare brain-time to take one on (I tend to get too emotionally involved with them). I suggest your best option, to ensure that it flies through quickly when someone reviews it, is to pretend that you yourself are The Reviewer From Hell, and go through the article with a printed-out copy of Ealdgyth's GA review cheat-sheet, and make sure you can tick every single box on it, while you're waiting for a reviewer. Enjoy! Pesky (talkstalk!) 09:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks! — Hunter Kahn 13:19, 15 July 2011 (UTC)


Hi, I just saw your edits on the 90210 page and I'm curious, what does nbsps mean? Jayy008 (talk) 14:41, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm stalking Pesky's page, nbsps basically means "non-breaking space." In other words, it prevents two characters that are separated by a space from being separated from one another by a line break, they will be treated as if they are a single word. Hope that helps! Montanabw(talk) 15:26, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Ah, yes. Thank you! Jayy008 (talk) 15:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I do love my talk page stalkers :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 07:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Tipu's Tiger derivative in New Forest

Hi Pesky, there's a discussion on Talk:Tipu's Tiger about an image of a derivative of the object that is located in the New Forest. There's a picture on Flickr but it isn't licensed for reuse on Commons/Wikipedia. It'd be great if you could get a photograph of it for use in the article. Interested? —Tom Morris (talk) 07:16, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

May not still be there ...... I Googled Beaulieu and sculpture; this was probably part of a sculpture display held at Beaulieu Palace gardens - they do host sculpture displays (see Surrey Sculpture Society Exhibition list, showing that the Surreys have an exhibition at Beaulieu in August this year), and the Flickr picture was taken last year. So - it's not looking promising, sadly - this was almost certainly one of last year's exhibits :o( Pesky (talkstalk!) 08:19, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I am immensely amused by this topic, over in Missoula, Montana, there used to be an Indian restaurant called "Tipu's" and the takeout wing was called "Tipu's Tiger." I presume the owner knew of this particular connotation, though no one in town apparently did! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 16:39, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

nbsp Road to Europe

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Why did you add those nbsps to the dates? If anything MoS only suggests adding it as the space preceding a dash. Chaosdruid (talk) 20:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi there; basically, to stop anything breaking onto a new line where the result could read 'hiccuppy' (or, as the MOS puts it, " to prevent the end-of-line displacement of elements that could be awkward at the beginning of a new line"). Numbers separated from certain elements can create a mental double-take (for example, something described as 'costly' could appear at first construction as costing $10 ....... when the 'million' appears on the following line). Dates can be particularly hiccuppy in that way, and a few other things too - house numbers separated from street names, etc. It's just so the mental process of absorbing the information doesn;t get one of those little 'jolts' where it can be easily avoided with a non-breaking space, really. Pesky (talkstalk!) 23:02, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Thought of a slightly better(?) or at least more in-depth explanation - the brain absorbs the written word, in most readers, as kind of 'entities', and though most individual words in prose are 'entities' in their own right, when it comes to a date, the whole thing (e.g. 1st March 1975) is a kinda "this-day" entity, and if a line break comes into the middle of it, the brain has to re-process it before processing the next bit. Hope that hasn't toally confused you, but made it clearer instead! Pesky (talkstalk!) 23:07, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I understand the principles of nbsp and why they are used. I am asking why you are putting them in there as there is no guideline for their inclusion, and anyone reading MoS can take them out as they are not needed. It seems that you are beginning a crusade to put nbsps in everywhere, something that is not really supported by consensus. MoS indeed only recommends placing them between the first date and the ndash, something that you did not actually do - inother words you did not follow MoS and did something that is not in MoS. Please reconsider your efforts and direct them to another more worthy enterprise. Chaosdruid (talk) 17:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Chaosdruid, I'm just butting in for a moment to say that Pesky is making good edits to improve the layout and form of WP. How about you try to assume good faith, discuss placement on is own merits and not be so insulting. Montanabw(talk) 22:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Hey, Chaosdruid; I've just discovered the {{nowrap| blah blah etc.}} template, and am now using that instead, which should make the window easier for subsequent editors to read, etc. The only real "guideline" is the not leaving line-breaks hiccuppy" one - and that's always going to be a bit subjective. Hopefully, using the nowrap template will ameliorate any difficulty of reading in the edit window. Sorry if I bugged you! I'm just trying to brush up the GANs waiting to be reviewed in a small way, so the ultimate reviewer has one less nit to pick ....
Hey Montana! Thanks for the input :o) Hopefully my latest discovery will make things better all around. Pesky (talkstalk!) 08:26, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
@Montanabw - Nothing I said was insulting, indeed TPC was already involved in discussions elsewhere on this matter. How about you assume good faith in that my posts were simply asking TPC why they were continuing to miss out the MoS guidelines; there it says to add an nbsp between the dash and the preceeding word, rather than adding them throughout the dates. As for improvements, well it seems that we disagree on that. TPC would probably agree that these are in no way changing the layout, nor "form", they are to aid in readability.
I certainly do not mention all the other instances where TPC has added unnecessary nbsps and not added the ones recommended by MoS except where an article is a GA or FA or candidate, and where they will get much more scrutiny than other articles - as MoS is applied much more rigorously there.
@TPC - ok, that will probably be ok with reviewers as long as the ndash has the preceeding nbsp as well. As for your crusade on nbsps and date formatting, maybe you could turn your attention to ensuring they all have that "2011nbsp;- January"? You can also concentrate on other issues, such as the ref formatting, something that does not perhaps come up at GAN so much as at FAC. Chaosdruid (talk) 17:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Sometimes people are unaware of how harsh their tone can be, Chaos, myself included. A phrase like Please reconsider your efforts and direct them to another more worthy enterprise. was really snotty. Better to suggest positive solutions than to someone to just get lost. Pesky is, by the way, very good at putting things in a positive way, I should personally follow that example and so too should you! Montanabw(talk) 18:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Totally agree with Montana. Also, MoS, I think, is a guideline for what you can't do – if it doesn't explicitly tell you to not add non-breaking spaces between dates, than I think you're allowed to go ahead and do that. BTW, Arabian horse is good, don't see any flaws. Sp33dyphil "Ad astra" 23:30, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I'm sure I'm missing out places where there should be nbsp's! (or nowraps). I'll try to make sure I tell my eyes to pick out the missing ones before dashes — to be honest, I hadn't been focussing on those ones, and I should have been catching them, too, as I went through — thanks for pointing out that for me. The only reason I'm doing little gnomish tasks at the minute is that Real Life Draahmaah is impinging on the brain space I would otherwise be devoting to WP (bloody Real Life, I hate it when it gets in the way .....), so I was just looking for little dinky things to do which I can pick up and put down pretty quickly. Not so much a crusade as an escapist tactic! (btw, I actually did find your phrase Please reconsider your efforts and direct them to another more worthy enterprise. to be a bit ... errrmmm ..... wossname. I'll AGF and accept that you didn't mean it to be snitty, patronising, condescending, dismissive, or whatever other word best sums up whatever it was that made me blink! We all have days when we don't express ourselves perhaps as well as we could. I don't want to take on anything as 'heavy' as ref formatting just at the mo (requires a lot more thinking about, and would therefore feel more like a chore than an escape-from-reality thing). Sorry about that, but there ya go! Pesky (talkstalk!) 05:34, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

  • I'm sure Pesky has the very best intentions, and is doing good, productive work
  • I'm sure Chaosdruid's comments were intended as helpful, constructive criticism
  • I'm sure Montanabw and Sp33dyphil are trying to help sort this out in the most equanimous, collegiate, drama-free fashion.
  • Let's remember that the majority of edits to Wikipedia are utter shite, so we do need to keep perspective. We're the minority - the good folks, trying hard to improve articles - so let's not argue amongst ourselves
  • It's hard to gauge feelings from text, on-wiki. So it is all-too-easy to read Please reconsider your efforts and direct them to another more worthy enterprise as anything from Hey, I have an idea to help us both use our time more productively - if we focus on this instead through to Sod off to another wiki, and never darken my doorstep again - depending on the mood of the reader. That's how wars start, and why AGF is so important.
  • Anything involving date-formatting, or non-breaking spaces, is a recipe for the wiki-equivalent of thermonuclear escalation; both in one discussion is a potential threat to the fabric of the universe. I won't even begin arguing about it, other than to say: 'MOS is only a guideline, and IAR is policy. One of you could start a nice, new chat about it on T:MOS or whatever, to try and establish clearer guidance - but if you do, please don't bother inviting me ;)

Now, let's all have a nice cup of tea, and make stuff better Smilie2.gif. Group hugs. Pesky, apropos of nowt, you might be interested in {{Archive top}} which is handy for marking concluded debates on your user talk page, once things have all been sorted out; it can reduce further fuss  Chzz  ►  07:00, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Something right up your alley.

I think that this discussion at the village pump about a very badly worded error message is in your area of expertise. I'd appreciate it if you were willing to bring your 'rewording nutshells' talent to that thread. Thanks, Sven Manguard Wha? 04:39, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Sven! I'll trot over and take a look at that sometime. So long as this message stays on my talk page, I'll keep getting reminded .... you know what the memory's like, lol! Thing with holes in .... errrrmmmm .....Roquefort? Sponge? Very old car? One of those things, anyway! Pesky (talkstalk!) 08:09, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Chzz's wording idea is spot-on there :o) Don't think I could improve much on that. Pesky (talkstalk!) 05:36, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

International Organizations per Country templates

Hey there, you said you were gonna help :p -- とある白い猫 chi? 00:21, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

I will, I will - just had so much stuff going on in Real Life it's taking a while to recover! Pesky (talkstalk!) 09:11, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

So Pesky!

Another name change, dah-ling? Whaddya trying to do, hide from us, or are you just having TOO MUCH FUN? (grins and giggles) Montanabw(talk) 21:19, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Courcelles suggested I could usurp the Pesky account, as it was inactive, and to avoid any confusion as I always sign myself off as Pesky. But now all my watchlisted pages have gone! Pesky (talkstalk!) 07:16, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
The idea was actually that I keep the TPC name, but control the Pesky account ... so stuff may change back again! Pesky (talkstalk!) 08:23, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Looks like I didn't closely read your rationale, and carried out the usurp directed by the template - sorry 'bout that. (For future reference, you would've had to bring a "User:Pesky (temp)" account or something to write into the template.) I've reversed the rename - you can register User:Pesky now. –xenotalk 12:41, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ILIKEIT. Short user-names FTW. But I think it'd be cleaner to rename your account, keeping your contribs in one place; then just (re)create User:ThatPeskyCommoner as a non-editing doppelgänger. That'd avoid any potential for confusing, rather than using your 'old' one as a spare. If you want an alternate, that'd be better as "User:YOURNEWNAME (test)" or ...(public) or ...(alt) or whatever. I think.  Chzz  ►  13:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I think they mean to keep using ThatPeskyCommoner for all editing, 'User:Pesky' is just be to prevent anyone from starting to use that name when it's TPC's nickname. –xenotalk 13:39, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Fair enough; either way - Pesky as non-editing pointing to TPC, or vice-versa. Sorry if I misunderstood, but I just wanted to say that - either way around - I wouldn't recommend using the other to edit, as an alt (which is what I interpreted from 'keep control'). If it was never meant for editing, fair enough, don't mind me :-)  Chzz  ►  13:42, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I for one, will probably be stuck with MY user name for life! Montanabw(talk) 16:25, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── keeping ThatPeskyCommoner for editing, just having Pesky in my possession to avoid someone else taking it over and causing confusion. It will be completely inactive. Everything's back in the right places now - big Hugz to Xeno and Courcelles :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 18:47, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

You ARE your namesake, you know! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 19:06, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Abso-bleedin-lutely. Pesky (talkstalk!) 19:07, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Request for mediation rejected

The request for formal mediation concerning Opposition to the legalisation of abortion, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, AGK [] 21:33, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Note: editors who comment in mediation cases aren't "parties"! Pesky (talkstalk!) 06:00, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


Hello! You have received this message because it is believed that you might be interested in adopting a typo for your very own.

What is adopt-a-typo?

Adopt-a-typo is an effort to harness a movement that already exists in wikipedia. Individual users already pick typos that particularly irritate them, and search for them in the wikipedia articles. Adopt-a-typo is intended to do three things:

  • Add social credit to this practice, so that users feel enticed to join and adopt.
  • Catalog the growth of the adopt a typo movement, so that there is a list of ALL adopted typos.
  • Enable those who want to adopt a typo to do so quickly and easily.

Why do you want to start this new group, instead of joining one of these existing groups?

I, and probably you, have joined several groups that pursue the same goal through different means, but we at Adopt-a-Typo believe this proposal harnesses the unique power that wikipedia has with its mass conglomerate of editors.


Please add yourself if you want to join the project.

  1. Majestic PyreMy Speech Bubble 17:13, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
  2. trunks_ishida (talk) 18:48, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  3. TheConduqtor (talk) 06:54, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
  4. Neutral Isotope (talk) 14:16, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
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All comments welcome here! Majestic PyreMy Speech Bubble 00:08, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

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Hi, How would you feel about moving your proposal and its discussion from this section to its own section? Regards, Bob K31416 (talk) 14:28, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

FYI [1]. Bob K31416 (talk) 15:49, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Have added to the drafts :o) Pesky (talkstalk!) 04:06, 24 August 2011 (UTC)