User talk:ViperFace

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Conflict of interest

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Reference Errors on 27 November

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Sexual offense-related editing

Hi ViperFace,
I'm going to keep this short and impersonal, because I'm assuming you're trying to help and are open to suggestions, and because I don't want to get into a big dispute with you.
You've been adding material to many pages relating to criticism of U.S. legal and societal treatment of sex offenders. This is absolutely fine per se. But I believe you've been going too far and violating the policies on WP:Activism, WP:Neutral point of view, WP:Undue weight, and possibly WP:Conflict of Interest. Please read these policies with an open mind, do some soul-searching, and decide whether you think you can contribute according to their instructions. If you can, I look forward to seeing your balanced edits in future; if not, I wish you the best with your WP:NOBLE efforts off Wikipedia.
Please tell me, with references to WP policies, if you think I'm out of bounds in any way. (I'm new here too, and have made my share of mistakes.)
FourViolas (talk) 05:45, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi FourViolas (talk · contribs)

I don't know if I'm out of pounds. I have tried to maintain neutral point of view, but since I have mostly covered criticism and since the most academic research result on sex offender issues in U.S seem to be critical to current states of the laws, it is pretty hard to come up with balancing "positive things" to say that have not been included in the articles already. Of course I could find tons of popular media articles cheering for the registries, but this is not the case with academia which is more relevant IMO, and that is why I have tried to add more content about criticism/make existing criticism more coherent. I'll take a look of WP:s you presented. BTW I already answered on some of the issues you raised on sex offender article talk page.

ViperFace (talk)

Thanks to you and User:Noterie for keeping your cool as several experienced editors swoop in and heavily change your contributions. I'm personally satisfied that you're two different good-faith editors. I'm sorry if anything in this incident has upset you—I'd be surprised if it hadn't, given the controversial topic and many contribs involved—but I believe that patience, collaboration, and extreme AGF will get everyone through this.
I respect your noble desire to balance public prejudice with academic consensus (even if I think the situation is more complicated than that). As Herostratus suggested, keep your "criticism of US laws" sections short, factual, and punchy; put in a few impeccably sourced statements about academic opinion and leave it. Even if you maintain an activist position, a concise, true section on "Scientists and HRW think this needs to change" will have a better effect than the global insertion of tendentious language. You have to treat readers' preconceptions gently; when I first encountered your version of the Offender article, I actually thought it was the work of some embittered offender. (immediate disclaimer and clarification: I have no reason whatsoever to believe that you have any personal relation to sexual offenses besides that of a third-party human-rights activist.) I'm not telling you that to insult you or accuse you (again, I can believe that you're a disinterested Finn), just to bring to your attention that criticizing the harshness of offenders' treatment outside a section dedicated to that purpose does not necessarily advance your cause.
Again, thanks for keeping calm and for sticking around to keep improving coverage of this topic. FourViolas (talk) 12:33, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Calm schmalm. I've gotten nothing but accusation after accusation from user: Flyer22, who clearly had her mind made up before I did anything, and unlike everyone else, appears to be just digging her heals in making up still more unfalsifiable accusations. Sorry, but I have a real world case to finish preparing for. I had this crazy idea that the information I was gathering would be useful to wikipedia, which was/will continue to be missing almost everything scholars have to say about it. See 'ya.Noterie (talk) 13:36, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Like I told you at the Sex offender talk page, Noterie, I've caught various WP:Sockpuppets and recognize when editors are not new (or are not completely new) to editing Wikipedia (whether they are WP:Sockpuppets or not); many at this site know that, just like they know that I am well-versed in a variety of scholarly topics and commonly add scholarly text to articles. Wikipedia will never be complete; it's designed to repeatedly change. Flyer22 (talk) 13:42, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

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Oh no!

Oh no! You forgot to log in again! Flyer save us!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noterie (talk • contribs) 20:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Tap your inner Zen.

Hi, Viper. No one knows better than I how frustrating this is. My experience, however, is that when push comes to shove, the editors writing calmly are much more convincing. I agree entirely with your very reasonable demand that people who are opposing the inclusion of essentially any RSs on the topic should produce any RS supporting the view they appear to hold. You might, however, consider rewording the more personal part of your comment " your kind MONGO (that is people who DO NOT open the articles and read it, but go and revert edits and claim misleading/pov-pushing for any arbitrary WP:IDONTLIKEIT reasons. " — James Cantor (talk) 14:02, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

POV pushing

You need to gain a strong consensus for your edits or face a topic ban. You continue along the path you are now, which is to try and use Wikipedia as a vehicle to promote your agenda, and you are going to face a site ban.--MONGO 19:08, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you follow WP:Neutral_point_of_view#Achieving_neutrality and WP:PRESERVE MONGO?? Help me out here. It seems like this is going to arbitrators, since we are not clearly going to find common ground. As more experienced editor I ask you to take this dispute to be resolved by arbitrators.ViperFace (talk) 15:43, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Nomination of Advocates For Change for deletion

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Sex offender article

Good job on your recent edits. The material appears to be easier to read and less redundant after your edits. Now, if you have the time, I invite you to make similar efforts at the "Overview" section of that same article, which is certainly not an overview, and appears to be a copy/paste job from another article. Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 02:19, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind words, Etamni. I might try to improve the overview section at some point. I'm currently working on Sex_offender_registries_in_the_United_States and there's still much to do there. If you have any comments on that article, I'd like to hear them. Many articles related to these subjects are pretty messed up atm. This is a shame since the topic, particularly the broadness of the term "sex offender" and harshness of the US registries has been recently covered internationally following Zach Anderson case and these articles are read quite often, I assume. It's nice to see some new interested editors in these topics. ViperFace (talk) 15:28, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll look over the article more fully later. I did review another editor's deletion of some sources, and agree that there were too many in one spot. I made a minor copy edit on that paragraph, but will look at it further as I have time. Even though English is not your first language, you are doing quite well in making what you write understandable. Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 08:21, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your user page

Well, you know that people read user pages, right? Anyway, there is a deprecated link on your user page, that should be replaced with this one: Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard/Archive_49#Sex_offender_and_Adam_Walsh_Act Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 08:19, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I see the above has been fixed. Under the "list of absurd..." your first link is about Lonny Leon Rivera; here is a more complete link for the same story: Courthouse News Service: He's Not a Sex Offender, Married Man Says. (The source appears to be a news outlet with editorial oversight of what it publishes.) Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 17:27, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I added the link on the list. ViperFace (talk) 18:53, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So the articles about Lonny Leon Rivera are all a couple of years old: do we have any idea what has happened since then? Was he successful in getting his name removed from the registry? Would the outcome of that case be relevant to the article? Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 21:01, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Merger discussion for Megan's law , Jacob Wetterling Act , and Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act

Articles that you have been involved in editing—Megan's law , Jacob Wetterling Act , and Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act —have been proposed for merging with Sex offender registries in the United States. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 18:26, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Offer of help with English

I have not finished my work on the sex offender registries in the United States. It still needs reorganization and rewrite. But I'm waiting until I have a Windows computer and some time to work on it, probably by this weekend.

I'm glad to edit anything you wish on sex offender registries or the criminal justice system in the United States, including if it's in your sandbox. Editing would be primarily for English. English requires more articles than you customarily use, for exampleI don't mean to disparage your English, it takes real guts to write publicly in a non-native language. The situation is identical with me writing in Spanish. I am an active contributor to the Spanish WP (es.wikipedia.org, which is actually a more civil and civilized place than the English one.

I feel it's the responsibility of us whose native language is English to correct that of non-native speakers, subject to their approval of course. I've had Spanish speakers do the same to me. Please don't take offense. deisenbe (talk) 04:38, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of NPOV issues

Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion

Hello, ViperFace. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--MONGO 11:11, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sex offender register

Just to say that your comments would not raise any eyebrows in the UK. In fact successive UK governments have argued for anonymity. Regards JRPG (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Images nominated for deletion

I've nominated several images you've uploaded for deletion: see Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2015 October 28#File:Murderer of Megan Kanka.jpeg. A public-records law is not the same thing as a public domain dedication: it typically only permits exact copies of the records, whereas a public domain dedication removes all restrictions on copying and the creation of derivative works. --Carnildo (talk) 01:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

ViperFace...your comments here appear almost as double voting. You can rebut others or add more the your original comment but it currently appears as double voting which is forbidden.--MONGO 08:10, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I'll fix it somehow ViperFace (talk) 15:48, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Warning

ViperFace...anymore using an IP to attack those you disagree with or comments like this one and I'm going to post at AN/I for a review of your edits. You be already referred to myself and others as liars and or lying and I'm about done with this from you.--MONGO 04:42, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you mean. I have been logged in all the time.

"to attack those you disagree with". LOL!!! Really?? Look who's talking. I got plenty of diffs of you accusing me and another editor for being "apologetic for deviant behavior". I also got a diff of uninvolved editor accusing you of NPA violation against me. Nice try of muddying the waters again. I can see trough your BS. Now go ask Scrap, Dheyward or Tom to help you with the edit war. ViperFace (talk) 04:59, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As you wish.--MONGO 06:06, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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UK sex offender treatment

Given your interest in criminology, you might be interested in this BBC program. Long Whatton is also described here]. Regards JRPG (talk) 10:08, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks JRPG, and sorry for the late response. I'll take a look of this program when I have more time. Maybe there's something useful for improving [[1]], although I'm trying to have a break for some time from these topics. ViperFace (talk) 01:02, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Your contributed article, Constitutionality of sex offender registries in the United States

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February 2016

Hello, I'm ScrapIronIV. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Megan's Law because they appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. Scr★pIron^IV 16:37, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not add promotional material to Wikipedia, as you did to Megan's Law. While objective prose about beliefs, organisations, people, products or services is acceptable, Wikipedia is not intended to be a vehicle for soapboxing, advertising or promotion. Thank you. Scr★pIron^IV 16:43, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:ScrapIronIV Take a look at what you reverted and you will find that there was nothing promotional with the edit.[2] The content I replaced made generalizations based on one study from New Jersey and takes position that these laws are worthless in all forms, when the summary I added says the results are mixed with some finding positive and some finding negative effects with majority finding no effect. Why would you prefer a single study from New Jersey to be representative of what is known about the effectiveness when we have an article summarizing the findings of Office of Justice Programs? If you honestly believe your edit was made in good faith rather than personal attack against me then by all means take this matter to A/NI. Remember that Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not about winning. ViperFace (talk) 17:05, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

March 2016

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be engaged in an edit war with one or more editors according to your reverts at Sex offender registries in the United States. Although repeatedly reverting or undoing another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

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Proposed deletion of Families Advocating an Intelligent Registry

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Florida Action Committee

This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:Michigan Citizens for Justice.png

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:28, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Movement to reform sex offender laws in the United States for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Movement to reform sex offender laws in the United States is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Movement to reform sex offender laws in the United States until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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How I could just edit a wiki article (talk) 07:25, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Families Advocating an Intelligent Registry for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Families Advocating an Intelligent Registry is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Families Advocating an Intelligent Registry until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

How I could just edit a wiki article (talk) 07:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Illinois Voices for Reform for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Illinois Voices for Reform is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Illinois Voices for Reform until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

How I could just edit a wiki article (talk) 05:17, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:Arkansas Time After Time logo.png

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Thanks for uploading File:Arkansas Time After Time logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:Florida Action Committee log.png

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Thanks for uploading File:Florida Action Committee log.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:National Association for Rational Sexual Offense Laws logo.png

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Thanks for uploading File:National Association for Rational Sexual Offense Laws logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:29, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]