Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 October 29

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October 29

definition of a country

I read at Wikipedia that Scotland is a country while reading about Scotland, yet, reading about Great Britain I read that Scotland is a territory of that country. How can I clear up these ideas as I read about geography as I try to learn about our changing world and its borders? 76.178.213.41 (talk) 00:33, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

"Country" isn't actually isn't that well defined. See this video for an explanation: How Many Countries Are There? Mingmingla (talk) 01:19, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Further elaboration: Ask yourself if Taiwan is a country. You may think so, Mainland China and most other countries pretend for political reasons that it is a constituent part of the PRC. For all practical purposes, it is: it trades with other nations, determines its own laws, participates separately in most international sporting events, but isn't actually recognized as an independent country. Mingmingla (talk) 01:26, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, Taiwan also thinks that it is part of China, it just hosts another Chinese gov't than the one in Beijing. --Soman (talk) 03:37, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I think you're confusing the meanings of the word 'territory'. Firstly, there is no such country as Great Britain. There used to be between 1707 and 1801, but it's now part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Today, 'Great Britain' is strictly a geographical term, which refers to the island on which England, Scotland and Wales are located. Our article Great Britain says it "is an island in the Atlantic Ocean, ... Politically, Great Britain refers to the island together with a number of surrounding islands, which constitute the territory of England, Scotland and Wales." That means the geographical territory, and does not mean that England, Scotland and Wales are political territories in the sense of sub-national entities (although in a sense they are, but not in the same way that the Northern Territory is a territory of Australia, as distinct from a state like New South Wales; or Puerto Rico is a territory of the US, as distinct from a state like Florida). -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:57, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Also, Terminology of the British Isles might give you a handle on this amazingly confusing issue. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 02:00, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

• The first thing to remember when thinking about definitions is that they are contextual. Concepts don't exist in some fantasy world of Platonic Ideals. They are tools and we define them as is useful, and hence, consistent with a context.
• the second step is to look at the etymology of the words involved. Country comes from the French contree, the Latin contrata, specifically the terra contrata, the bordering land. Country Hence country was used as a synonym for the bordering lands: e.g., the lands of the Belgians, and Germans, and Swiss, and Italians, and Spaniards and Basques, and English if you were French. Eventually countries were defined as the land of the peoples who lived in them.
• This is compared to a nation, which was defined by common birth (g)natio cognate to the English term kin, as opposed to land. The nation was the people, to which one belonged by birth or adoption. nation
• Then there's the state which originally referred to the order a land was put in, then its autonomy as such. state
• Eventually, there arose nation-states, like France or Germany, which unified some or all countries (Burgundy, Provence, Brittany, L'Ile de France) of one ethnic nation under a sovereign state.
• Of course this is history, not physics, so human will comes into play, and countries like wales and the basques are incorporated into states with different nationalities according to the vagaries of historical accident. States like Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia break up into their constituent countries due to lack of a single national identity.
• But again, if you are writing about geography, and not politics, it's perfectly legitimate to distinguish between the alpine, versus the lowland country--or countries--depending on your context. Just choose a reasonable definition to fit your needs and stick to it within that same context. μηδείς (talk) 04:41, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

No, do not look at the etymology. Do so, of course, if you want to understand the historical context, but it will not tell you anything reliable about the current meaning: see etymological fallacy. --ColinFine (talk) 09:39, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

That's absurd, Colin. You say it every time the subject is brought up, but you offer no reason why it is misleading here, and you ignore the fact that a proper etymological listing gives the full development up to the present day, not just the earliest source. μηδείς (talk) 15:59, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I have found Etymology Online, for example, to be a pretty good resource. The caveat is that it's not necessarily the whole story. But it's valuable as it is. The etymology of "country" is interesting.[1] Narrow it to these examples: England, Scotland, Ireland and Deutschland. Those terms define a "land" (equivalent to a "country") in which those peoples live and those languages are or were spoken (English, Scottish, Irish and German). But as noted earlier, a "country" and a "nation", in modern usage, are not necessarily the same thing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:26, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I would generally take nation to imply a sovereign state, while country is more an identity/historical thing, such as Amish country. Again, context will matter hugely. I did once witness an argument that almost came to blows on whether Scotland was a country or not. μηδείς (talk) 00:43, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Our article on United Kingdom says "The United Kingdom consists of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.". Even those in the UK who oppose Scottish devolution would not deny that Scotland is a separate country in nearly all senses of the word. Dbfirs 01:09, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

In the social sciences we use nation state for clarity when we mean a legal entity, usually recognised by other nation-states, or if not recognised by all, potentially recognised. Country is usually left as as loose term, except in relation to the UK, when it has quite recently become the accepted way to refer to England, Scotland and Wales, often also to Northern Ireland. Itsmejudith (talk) 03:27, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Taiwan does not consider itself part of the People’s Republic of China, and never has. At an earlier point in post-Civil War history, it considered the Communist Chinese Party to be bandits who had illegally usurped power from the rightful Nationalist (KMT) Government, and as such, the Nationalists (Republic of China, ROC) were the only legitimate government in China, including both Taiwan and the Mainland. In recent years, Taiwan has quietly dropped this claim and now just wants Beijing to stop interfering in its internal, and external affairs.DOR (HK) (talk) 04:31, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Disney costumed people

Are there multiple people dressed up as, for example, Mickey Mouse walking around Disney World/Land at any given time? I'd imagine there could be if they were good about staying in separate areas of the park and therefore not causing confusion for little kids who might wonder why there are two Mickeys within eyesight. Or are there just so many characters in the Disney universe that they don't bother with multiple people dressed as the same characters and only have one of each walking around?

Note: This is not a request for medical or legal advice. Dismas|^(talk) 06:41, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd expect they would have several of each, in order for each kid to be able to meet one. Kids small enough to believe they are real would be easily fooled by any convenient lie, like "that's Mickey's twin, Mortimer Mouse". StuRat (talk) 06:53, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

They usually congregate with multiple 'pop-culture'/'universal-genre' characters around the entrance to the parks (Main Street USA, EPCOT's globe thing etc.) The way Disney usually lays out its parks (at least from 1971's Disney World on) is kind of like spokes on a wheel so except for possibly the train ride at the Magic Kingdom or actually walking the long way around most guests choose to go through the core of the parks and thus past the Mickey, Pluto type characters. That said on occasion you will see some multiple Mickeys or Goofeys at different locations but it is rare since there are literally dozens of other "attractions" to discover and explore (and not just of the "ride" or "show" variety) and that the different sides of all the parks are kind of themed (A Modern Marvels or a CNBC hour long focus stated that Walt once was aghast that a Frontierland "cowboy" walked through Tommorowland and ruined the aesthetic, so Captain Hook and Peter Pan would only come out in Adventureland etc.)

As hinted above, there are tons of characters that come out, at Disney Studios for example there are even Groucho Marx, Marylin Monroe and Indiana Jones types not only taking pictures but putting on some campy street performances, EPCOT Center has traditional type of "actors" at Italy (what I remember as a sort of 'gypsy wagon' street show), France (mimes etc.), UK and so forth to keep both the kids and adults entertained. I'm sure there are some reliable sources on this but suffice to say I had a distant relative that basically had me visiting the Florida complex for almost 2 decades basically every month if not more in addition to the college I attended having a few of my fellow students that paid their bills from "pixie dust" as they like to say within the Reedy Creek Improvement District. ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 07:37, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

A distinct word appearing in two unrelated texts or videos

So I may be over-reacting, but lately I've noticed that whenever I take note of a certain word, either because I didn't know the meaning previously or it just sounds interesting, that particular word would appear in some unrelated text or video. Doesn't happen always but most of the time. Take for example just yesterday I was flipping random pages of the dictionary, and I came across "resplendent". Later on, I got bored and watched this video... "Resplendent" appeared in it! And prior to that I had never noticed the term "resplendent" pop up in any video or text I have read. Understandable if it's "Earth" or "tree" or "water"... But "resplendent"? What is this syndrome (?)? What are the odds of this happening every time? Okay this may come across as weird but I've no better way to phrase this dilemma of mine. ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 13:22, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. (taken from Ian Fleming's novel Goldfinger)196.214.78.114 (talk) 13:34, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

There's an article Frequency illusion, but it's currently only two sentences long. I think I'll add a couple of links to the "see also" section.  Card Zero  (talk) 14:21, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

[Edit Conflict]Not sure what the technical term might be but I'm sure there is an apt one, this happens to me all the time and not just with single words. In my opinion its simply due to the fact that you've actually taken conscious notice of the word, particularly if it was one you hadn't known before, that it now seems to be common, if that makes any sense.

Frequency illusion must be the term I was thinking of. Biggs Pliff (talk) 14:29, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, happens to me all the time. If there are a million words in the English language, and most of those are rare, just by chance a few of the rare words are likely to be repeated within a short time frame. StuRat (talk) 14:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Not just with words, but with anything new and interesting. On the TV show Brain Games and others similar to it, a recurring theme is that information is constantly coming at you, and your brain selects what information to pay attention to, based on prior experience. So the theory would be that the word "resplendent" probably turned up more than you knew, you just didn't pay attention to it. Now that you're aware of it, it has moved up a few notches in your brain's catalog of what information to pay attention to. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:22, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

This happens a lot with me too. Hia10 (talk) 23:59, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

What is this?

Sorry for the undescriptive title, wasn't sure how to even phrase one around this. Is there an article about the state of mind one enters when one decides to dislike something simply because they can't obtain it? I seem to remember it being illustrated with the story of a fox and an apple tree. The fox wants the apples, but it can't reach them. After spending hours trying, the fox goes home hungry, grumbling "I didn't want those apples anyway. They're probably sour and hard. Nasty, rotten things." I'm making up the speech, it's not a direct quote, but is any of this ringing any bells for anyone? 81.147.166.89 (talk) 14:10, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I thought it was grapes, not apples? I'm not sure, but for me I would say "false pretence". ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 14:14, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

It is actually called Accismus 196.214.78.114 (talk) 14:18, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much! 81.147.166.89 (talk) 14:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

196.214.78.114, nice find! ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 02:56, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

In the US we say "a case of sour grapes", based on Aesop's fable. StuRat (talk) 14:37, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

The OP might be thinking partly about the Aesop fable, and partly about the apple tree scene in The Wizard of Oz. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

See Cognitive dissonance. Edison (talk) 04:36, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Cocaine transshipment

http://world.time.com/2012/10/15/guinea-bissau-how-cocaine-transformed-a-tiny-african-nation/

After reading this article, I wonder...why do traffickers need to setup a mid-way point between South America and Europe to smuggle cocaine? It mostly comes through flights any ways right?

And related, why does cocaine smuggling require rocket science? (like narcosubs)

I mean couldn't cocaine just be packed into Fedex envelopes? (how many per 1000 get inspected any ways?) What about packed with a container of sugar or any container? (how many of those get so carefully inspected any ways) Seems like there are much simpler pathways.

Notpagressiveag (talk) 15:47, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

1. Until the middleman country appears on counter-smuggling agents' radar, shipments to and from, say, Guinea Bissau will be less suspicious than shipments directly from Cali to New York.
2. There's no reason to believe there aren't direct shipments
3. Shipping by Fed Ex requires the carrier not be suspicious and the packages be perfectly sealed. JUst one discovered package will mean all other packages to the same destination will be searched.

μηδείς (talk) 20:23, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Illegal drug trade#Illegal cocaine trade via West Africa has some pertinent information. I suspect the authorities don't just seize packages containing drugs. They let them go on their way and arrest the people who actually receive them, search for all their contacts, investigate almost everyone they've ever known. Astronaut (talk) 21:07, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

It's reasonable to suppose that drug enforcement agencies have both learned about and anticipated the various tricks. As with something said in a movie once, about committing a crime, there are 50 ways you can mess up, and you'll be lucky to think of 25 of them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:23, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Containers are searched. There was a news story not too long ago about a missile discoved in a container of sugar found during a search for drugs. See [2] for one report. RudolfRed (talk) 02:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

. . . taking notes, taking notes! ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 02:54, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Sweet! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:56, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Cannot make image appear on Mildred Lager Page

On the Mildred Lager page of Wiki there is one image. OI wanted to add a second, of which I am copyright owner. When I tried to do this using Toolbox: Upload File I was told that I had already uploaded that file. How do I get that image, taken in 1918, to appear on the Mildred Lager Wiki page? Bill Shurtleff — Preceding unsigned comment added by BillShurts (talk • contribs) 19:40, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

This is really a question for the Help Desk, but I suspect that you're trying to upload the image with the same filename as an existing image. The filename you use must be unique. Note also that you can't retain the copyright to anything you upload here - you have to release it under one of the acceptable licences. See WP:COPY for the legal stuff, and WP:MCQ if you have any questions about the copyright status of your image. Tevildo (talk) 20:46, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Also, please read Wikipedia:Don't abbreviate Wikipedia as Wiki. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:12, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Read it. It's an essay. Perhaps wiki should not be using Hawaiian words if they don't want to be known by the term. ;)--Mark Miller (talk) 01:15, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Don't abbreviate Wikipedia as Wiki.  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 02:08, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm in the middle of Parkinson's law of triviality after reading through this here which I think was the reason Don't abbreviate may have been written. ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 02:52, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Name that drink!

I was in downtown Austin, TX over the weekend bar hopping on 6th Street and would like to know the name of the mixed drink I was drinking so I can make it myself in the future. I don't drink much at all so couldn't tell you what was in it, just that my husband asked them to make me "something girlie with coconut". We visited 3 or 4 different places and each time the bartender made the same drink so it must be something pretty popular. I didn't get to see the bottles used while it was being made but did see they added water to whatever the other ingredients are. The finished drink was almost clear with a slight hint of white and possibly a slight greenish hue (think water down mountain dew). I originally thought it was a 'Bahama Mama' but the recipes I've seen online are orange and use grenadine which this definitely did not have. Any suggestions? 63.95.64.254 (talk) 22:53, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Not Piña colada, right? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:21, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I doubt it. A pina colada isn't anywhere near clear. StuRat (talk) 02:24, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Definitely not, I'm familiar with pina colada's and that was actually what I had originally asked for but they don't seem to do frozen drinks there. They also usually are made with grenadine to my knowledge. 63.95.64.254 (talk) 14:37, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

You might actually be able to call the bar in the early afternoon on a tuesday-thursday (i.e., when they aren't busy) and ask, assuming you can remember which one it was. Tell the hostess why you are calling and say you don't want to bother them if they're busy. Most bartenders are quite friendly. Some bars even have their specialty menu on line. (Being a drinker myself though, if my husband ordered me something "girly" I might name it a "pending divorce", lol.) μηδείς (talk) 00:36, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I had considered it but hate making phone calls :\ I will check online though, I do remember a few of the bar names so that might be a good idea. I know they served it to me at "The Library" and "Maggie Mae's". As for him ordering a girlie drink I didn't mind too much, I think in an environment where you can barely hear one another it was a quick way to get across something fruity without a strong taste of alcohol lol 63.95.64.254 (talk) 14:37, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

That might be especially ironic if your real name were Pat Pending. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:05, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

There was an episode of The Kids in the Hall featuring a "girl drink drunk". This man wasn't just an alcoholic, he couldn't resist the "girlie drinks". They caught him at work using a blender in the storage room, and he left a trail of tiny umbrellas and maraschino cherries behind him as he staggered down the hall. StuRat (talk) 00:41, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

What's a girlie/girly drink? Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 12:14, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Is the screw driver a girly drink then? Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 12:27, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Girlie drinks usually include fruit juice, often decorated with little umbrellas and/or fruit slices, often made with rum. Rmhermen (talk) 12:22, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

To follow up on that a bit, there's usually (in the US at least) a stereotype that only women have drinks with fruit or decorations such as the umbrellas. Men stereotypically drink something simpler like just beer or whiskey. Screwdrivers (orange juice and vodka) are about the closest to a girlie drink that men will ever go. But like I've said, it's a stereotype and not always followed. Dismas|^(talk) 12:32, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

So, men doesn't often gets Screwdrivers? Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 14:27, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

"Girlie drinks" are usually very sweet, to cover the taste of the alcohol. Screwdrivers don't have that level of sweetness.

Oh, I get the point of girlie drinks. What about Margaritas? Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 19:11, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't think a standard margarita is a girly drink. A strawberry margarita probably is. Anything more exotic than that (more exotic in the fruit juice, not more expensive tequila) almost certainly is. --Trovatore (talk) 20:01, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

This shows a greenish Bahama Mama made with coconut liqueur and pineapple juice. Rmhermen (talk) 12:20, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Am at work atm but will check this link out later, thanks! 63.95.64.254 (talk) 14:37, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

• No, a screwdriver is not a girlie drink. We used to drink Denny's Screwdrivers when I cooked there, which was a 30 Oz. milk shake tin filled with 1/3 ice, 1/3 lemonade (staff could drink lemonade free) and 1/3 whatever clear hard liquor was on hand, usually 100 proof Absolut. You couldn't really do that while waiting though, so then we smoked weed. (The cooks also smoked weed, since the other waitrices had to come on line to do that anyway. Funny when we were all on line smoking and the cops would come in to place an order and "not notice nothing". μηδείς (talk) 02:24, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

So my husband now seems to think that they were just adding spring water to coconut rum and pouring it over ice, is that actually something they do? lol how would one even order that? 63.95.64.254 (talk) 16:04, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Just like that. Most bartenders will take custom orders. Figuring out how much to charge can be tricky, though. StuRat (talk) 16:28, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Not really. Bartenders will charge based on how much of which hard liquor they used to make the drink. 1 ounce of top shelf rum is 1 ounce of top shelf rum regardless of which mixers you add to it. You don't really factor in the spritz of seltzer or the wedge of lime into the cost. A bartender is evaluated based on the money they bring in compared to the liquor they pour. So that's how they charge on custom drinks. --Jayron32 17:34, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't a custom order though, as I mentioned above when he asked for something girlie with coconut they all served me the same thing so it has to have a name or be a popular drink with the crowd that frequents that area. The priced vary but that's normal depending on specials, happy hour, serving size etc. I know it was $3 at 'The Library' and upwards of $6 or 7 at 'Maggie Mae's'. 63.95.64.254 (talk) 18:54, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, if you can list the ingredients they can also tell you what it is. Probably some local drink. StuRat (talk) 19:32, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

If I knew the ingredients I wouldn't be asking for help trying to identify what it was ;) 63.95.64.254 (talk) 19:58, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I thought "adding spring water to coconut rum and pouring it over ice" was both the preparation method and the ingredients list. StuRat (talk) 01:40, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Is ther any site about cocktails or something. That would be a good start. Do those places have websites? Maybe there is a section were they show their cocktails, I am just guessing tough. Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 20:03, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

You should never guess tough, you might strain your brain. Always guess gently. μηδείς (talk) 03:45, 1 November 2013 (UTC)