Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council

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WikiProject Council
WikiProject icon This page relates to the WikiProject Council, a collaborative effort regarding WikiProjects in general. If you would like to participate, please visit the project discussion page.
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
What's a WikiProject?
A WikiProject is a group of people who want to work together. It is not a subject area, a collection of pages, or a list of articles tagged by the group.
How many WikiProjects are there?
There are approximately 2,600 WikiProjects and task forces. This includes all Wikipedia-namespace pages (other than subpages) that begin with "WikiProject" and WikiProjects and task forces with assessment categories. However, most WikiProjects lack active participants.
What's the biggest WikiProject?
Nobody knows, because not all participants add their names to a membership list, and membership lists are almost always out of date. You can find out which projects' main pages are being watched by the most users at Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProject watchers.
Which WikiProject has tagged the most articles as being within their scope?
WikiProject Biography has tagged about 1.29 million articles, making it more than three times the size of the second largest WikiProject. About ten groups have tagged more than 100,000 articles. You can see a list of projects and the number of articles they have assessed here.
Which WikiProject's pages get changed the most?
See Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProjects by changes. These changes may have been made by anyone, not just by participants in the WikiProject.
Who gets to decide whether a WikiProject is permitted to tag an article?
That is the exclusive right of the participants of the WikiProject. Editors at an article may neither force the group to tag an article nor refuse to permit them to tag an article. See WP:PROJGUIDE#OWN.
I think a couple of WikiProjects should be merged. Is that okay?
You must ask the people who belong to those groups, even if the groups appear to be inactive. It's okay for different groups of people to be working on similar articles. WikiProjects are people, not lists of articles. If you identify and explain clear, practical benefits of a merger to all of the affected groups, they are likely to agree to combining into a larger group. However, if they object, then you may not merge the pages. For less-active groups, you may need to wait a month or more to make sure that no one objects.

Categorizing WikiProjects and their categories[edit]

WikiProjects are often sorted into categories of the variety "[Something] WikiProjects". WikiProjects also frequently have their own categories; for example, Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography has a corresponding Category:WikiProject Biography. I tend to refer to the former categories as "meta-categories" and the latter as "self-named categories". I have found that categorization of WikiProjects into appropriate meta-categories is inconsistent. Some projects have meta-categories on both the project page and the self-named categories; others have them just on the self-named categories, and some projects have different categories between the project pages and the self-named categories. It varies from project to project, and I apologize for contributing to this inconsistency.

I propose that for the WikiProjects that have their own categories, that meta-categories are only sorted into the category and not the project page itself. For example, Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography, currently sorted under Category:WikiProject Biography and Category:Society WikiProjects, would only be sorted under Category:WikiProject Biography, and that category would be sorted under Category:Society WikiProjects. It makes the (much-needed) categorization effort easier, since categories will only need to be assigned in one place. I am volunteering to write a bot to enforce this.

I open this up for discussion. Harej (talk) 03:19, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

  • I'm a bit dubious about this plan. The outcome might be desirable in some respects, but the process of getting there could cause confusion and stress. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:10, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
    • Confusion and stress are a natural part of the life of a Wikipedian. :v — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 15:52, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
      • If it would mitigate the confusion, each edit done as part of the category migration could have a link in the edit summary that explains what is happening. Harej (talk) 18:25, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
  • I see no problem with this. — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 15:52, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
  • This is logical. It's a good idea. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:01, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
  • It's been 30 days. Shall I go ahead with writing the bot? Harej (talk) 18:37, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea (although some people argue that it's not worth time doing any category maintenance, since categories are rarely helpful). A few months ago, I cleaned up the WikiProject category structure a bit, but a bot would be nice. Generally, I think the WikiProject category structure should follow these rules:

  1. Most WikiProjects should have an eponymous category ("self-named")
  2. All pages of a WikiProject, including the main page, should only be categorized in this eponymous category
    • The main page of a WikiProject should have the sort key of " " (blank) in its eponymous category
  3. The WikiProject's eponymous category should be categorized in a "meta-category" (ie "[Something] WikiProjects")
    • If the WikiProject does not have its own eponymous category, then the main project page should be categorized in a "meta-category"
    • If the WikiProject's name is the same as the name of the "Something" in "[Something] WikiProjects", then the WikiProject eponymous category should have the sort key of "*" in the "[Something] WikiProjects" category
  4. Eponymous WikiProject categories should generally not be categorized within a different WikiProject's eponymous category
  5. "Meta-categories" should be categorized within other "meta-categories" in the Category:WikiProjects by area hierarchy, with a sort key beginning with a " ", followed by the category's name

Using this logic, there won't be any circular categorization, which has been a problem in the past. Also, it should make category navigation easier, as you don't have to look in any WikiProject's categories to find other projects that would otherwise be difficult to find. All projects are strictly categorized according to type. --Scott Alter (talk) 07:34, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Sounds great to me. Someone should have a look over the meta-categories we have now, to me it looks like the current main categories are not very helpful. I can't really tell the difference between "Society", "Culture", and "Humanities" categories. I'd vote for getting rid of the Humanities category and turning the "History WikiProjects" category into one of the main meta-categories. Other "humanities" can probably fit in the existent ones. (Also history isn't all about humans.) — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 09:13, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
I really like your idea, Scottalter. It covers all the bases. (To cover your specific point on category maintenance not being worth it, WikiProject categorization is being used to generate the WikiProject Directory, so having a good category system is now necessary.) Jeraphine Gryphon, I have more on the overall category structure below. Harej (talk) 22:07, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Bot request for approval is here: Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Harej bot. Harej (talk) 22:56, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

  • Sorry, I am late to the party.I wonder if Liz has any thoughts about this? Ottawahitech (talk) 09:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Overall category structure[edit]

I'm more than open to the idea of changing the top-level categorization system. As Jeraphine pointed out, "Culture" and "Society" seem like such interchangeable categories (indeed, a lot of projects are sorted as both), and "Humanities" is fairly duplicative. The Council-maintained directory has:

  • Culture and the Arts
  • Geographical
  • History and Society
  • Science, Technology, and Engineering

as top-level categories. Compare to the current category system of:

  • Culture
  • Humanities
  • Regional
  • Science
  • Society
  • Technology

I think the former is a clearer grouping. What does everyone else think? Harej (talk) 22:07, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Looking over this, I would rename "Geographical" to "Regional" and make it exclusively a category for projects of regional character (countries, continents, national subdivisions, cities, etc.). The elements of geography that include earth sciences would be put into an Earth Sciences category that would be sorted under Science, Technology, and Engineering. Harej (talk) 21:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
I have gone ahead with the change as originally proposed. Harej (talk) 22:56, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Gadget for doing WikiProject assessments[edit]

I've created a user script to provide a nice user interface for adding WikiProject assessments to article talk pages and have proposed it as a gadget. To try it out, add ...

mw.loader.load( '//' );

... to your common.js. If you have any feedback or want to support it being added as a gadget, please comment at the Wikipedia:Gadget/proposals discussion. Thanks! Kaldari (talk) 18:54, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Kaldari, my guy. That would go great with my new assessment-related reports. See User:Reports bot/WikiProject Ghana/Assessment/Assess for quality for articles not yet assessed on quality, and User:Reports bot/WikiProject Ghana/Assessment/Not tagged for articles/categories not tagged by the WikiProject but are potentially in scope. (A third report for assessing importance is in the works). Harej (talk) 18:59, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
I noticed your reports. Very nice work! Kaldari (talk) 19:58, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
User:Kaldari, how does yours differ from Kephir's? (User:Kephir/gadgets/rater.js) WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:12, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing: Kephir's gadget is only for editing existing assessments. My gadget is for adding new assessments. Maybe we should combine them into one mega-gadget. Kaldari (talk) 20:14, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Kephir's can add them, too. I'm having some problems with it, because pages never seem to finish loading (in Firefox) when I've got it installed, but it does both. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:47, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
Looks like you're right. I wonder why he's never proposed it as a gadget. Kaldari (talk) 22:57, 30 July 2015 (UTC)


If a WikiProject is marked FFA, can I then make it class=A?--DThomsen8 (talk) 13:45, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

You can only mark an article as class=A for a WikiProject if (a) the WikiProject has defined a process for assessing A-class, usually requiring the agreement of two or more editors and (b) the result of the WikiProject's assessment process is that the article qualifies for A-class. If the article is supported by multiple projects, then each project must separately evaluate A-class. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:14, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
@ WhatamIdoing, I don't know much about class=A ratings in WikiProjects, however in my experience most class=X are mass-determined by a few editors who make decisions for a large number of WikiProjects. I believe WikiProject Medicine is one of the few exceptions.Ottawahitech (talk) 08:51, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Clarifying the "Advice pages" section[edit]

I've WP:BOLDly worked on Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide#Advice pages a bit. It seemed kind of diffusely critical, instead of providing more specific advice on what makes a great advice page, and how to avoid conflicts with both site-wide standards and other projects. It also gave an out-of-place example of an embedded advice section in a main wikiproject page without mentioning that WikiProject advice can be a separate page or not, so I explained and illustrated that it can be both. There were also a couple of redundantly worded bits that I tweaked. I don't believe I changed any sort of "do"/"don't" about project pages, just provided a more useful explication of what WikiProject advice material is and how it's useful.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  14:46, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

I have removed this: The most common source of conflict between WikiProject advice and site-wide norms is an attempt to "import" field-specific naming conventions, styles, or sourcing standards that are not Wikipedia's own, general-audience standards. on the grounds that it's not true. The most common source of conflict is trying to impose the members' Wikipedia-specific personal preferences on articles that they choose to support, e.g., demanding or refusing infoboxes. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:36, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
I don't see how those two items are not inclusive of the other. --Izno (talk) 19:03, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
There are no "field-specific styles" that say whether or not an infobox ought to be included. This refers to things like whether that bird is a "Bald Eagle" or a "bald eagle" and whether you should cite primary sources (beloved of academics) or secondary sources (Wikipedia's preferences). WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:58, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
These are still points of style to me given how the vast majority of those editors who fight over infoboxes or preferred sources treat style. Improvement of the sentence rather than removal seems to be correct to me rather than nitpicking over the examples. --Izno (talk) 22:24, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
Yes, they are points of style. But it is absolutely impossible to "import" a Wikipedia-only style from outside (=the point of the sentence). So yes: people fight over infoboxes, but no: They do not fight over infoboxes by saying that All True™ Historians use Chicago Manual of Style, and that CMoS demands the inclusion of infoboxes, and that Wikipedia must comply with the True Style for History-related Papers in the Real World.
Removal is IMO the correct response because the actual problems are already addressed, in this statement: "However, in a few cases, projects have wrongly used these pages as a means of asserting ownership over articles within their scope, such as insisting that all articles that interest the project must contain a criticism section or must not contain an infobox, or that a specific type of article can't be linked in navigation templates, and that other editors of the article get no say in this because of a "consensus" within the project". All this sentence does is add a factual error (the unverifiable claim that fights over real-world vs on-wiki styles are a bigger problem than fights over alternate Wikipedia-only styles) and delay the reader's attention on the main point of the section (which is the statement about WikiProjects not being permitted to demand or to refuse infoboxes). WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:03, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Banners of inactive projects[edit]

FYI, several WikiProject Banners have come up for deletion because the projects that use them are marked as inactive. See WP:TFD for the discussions. -- (talk) 03:55, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for posting, @ I was trying to see which WikiProjects were up for deletion (I am vehemently opposed to deletions of WikiProjects, whether active or "inactive"), but it is really hard to figure out what the "discussions" at Templates for Discussion are all about. Ottawahitech (talk) 08:43, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Redirect Wikiproject tags[edit]

I have added Wikiproject tags to the talk page of a redirect. The tag shows:

 ??? This redirect does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.

Is there a way to get rid of the  ???

Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 08:07, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject_Medicine#Special pages "This project does not normally tag the talk pages of redirect pages.". More than a little spooked to be looking at your contributions to find out which template you were talking about and have a Thanks from you appear at the same time :-) Bazj (talk) 10:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Picking apart Talk:1421: The Year China Discovered the World (an example picked at random from the 34 NA redirects listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject History/Assessment), it uses "importance=NA" to get around the ??? issue. Bazj (talk) 10:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Looking for a Pet WikiProject[edit]

Surely there is a wp:WikiProject here for Pet related articles? What is the best way to find projects on a specific topic? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 13:19, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Directory (by User:Harej) includes Wikipedia:WikiProject Cats and Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs and Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds and Wikipedia:WikiProject Aquarium Fishes and Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals.
Wavelength (talk) 16:11, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
There's also WP:EQUINE for horses and ponies (with a breeds taskforce), and there's a pigeons taskforce of WP:BIRDS in particular (that project is mostly about wild birds otherwise). For more farm-oriented livestock material, see WP:Agriculture, which has a livestock taskforce. For gerbils and such, there's WP:RODENTS, though there isn't a specific workgroup of it relating to rodents as pets, that I know of.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  22:55, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Tortle's new WikiProject[edit]

I'd like to notify everyone here of this new WikiProject Wikipedia that Tortle has created. Eman235/talk 21:28, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

See*/ at the Wayback Machine.
Wavelength (talk) 21:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
According to this version of May 30, 2015, Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedia is "a collaboration area and group of editors dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of itself".
Wavelength (talk) 22:00, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Tortle renamed an existing WikiProject without discussion and reused its name. I have posted this and other concerns at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wikipedia/Members#Project creation. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:04, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I noticed this change as well and was concerned the move was not discussed beforehand. I assume some reverts are in order? ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:08, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
The original WikiProject Wikipedia has been renamed WikiProject Improving Wikipedia. I would suggest that the original WikiProject be moved back to the original title, and the new project moved to something like "WikiProject Meta Wikipedia". Eman235/talk 03:37, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I have moved the original WikiProject Wikipedia page back to its location before it experienced several moves. The new version of the WikiProject Wikipedia was proposed for deletion but can be recreated under a different name that has achieved some consensus here. Liz Read! Talk! 16:00, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I like the concept for the project, though I agree it should have been created under a name that wasn't already taken. If Tortle is still interested, perhaps the project could be restored as a WikiProject dedicated to internal workflows? Harej (talk) 16:08, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
That sounds like a good idea, Harej. I just wish he had brought his idea here first and I'm reverting moves on dozens of pages. It's a lot of cleanup work that could have been avoided if he had just proposed his idea here. Liz Read! Talk! 17:52, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
Tortle's new WikiProject may be a good idea, but isn't it redundant to the existing WP:Help Project? sovereign°sentinel (contribs) 01:46, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
If my memory serves me correctly, I believe Tortle mentioned somewhere that the new WikiProject would focus on all pages in the Wikipedia namespace. CabbagePotato (talk) 02:43, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Tokyogirl79. I will probably continue the project under a new name at a later date and will gain more experience by then and/or get some help. Thanks Tortle (talk) 07:30, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Before starting a new project remember that the pages in Wikipedia namespace have projects for each type of page already see WP:Essays#Types of essays..... Wikipedia:WikiProject Policy and Guidelines covers policies, Wikipedia:WikiProject Essays covers essays in the Wikinamespace and Wikipedia:WikiProject Help covers how to, information, and supplemental pages. --Moxy (talk) 14:40, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Brazil Assessment Table class=Future Request[edit]

How do I get class=Future added to WikiProject Brazil? Articles for the 2015 Olympics include Talk:Cycling at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's cross-country and others.--DThomsen8 (talk) 19:23, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Given WP:NOT#CRYSTAL, why?  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  22:49, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
DThomsen8, I believe that you would edit Template:WikiProject Brazil/class according to the directions given at Template:Class mask/doc. If you need help (or want a sanity check on a sandboxed version), then User:WOSlinker or User:MSGJ are probably your best contacts. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:07, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Re-organization of WikiProject Women[edit]

There currently is a discussion about the future organization of Wikipedia:WikiProject Women and several other women-related Wikiprojects and taskforces at the above link. Some aspects may be of interests to editors of this project and your participation in the discussion would be appreciated. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 12:40, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

initial notw[edit]

this looks like a great idea. feel free to keep me informed if you want. thanks! --Sm8900 (talk) 15:18, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Huh? Are you posting on the right page?  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  22:49, 2 October 2015 (UTC)