Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council

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WikiProject Council
WikiProject icon This page relates to the WikiProject Council, a collaborative effort regarding WikiProjects in general. If you would like to participate, please visit the project discussion page.
 
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
What's a WikiProject?
A WikiProject is a group of people who want to work together. It is not a subject area, a collection of pages, or a list of articles tagged by the group.
How many WikiProjects are there?
Nobody knows, because groups of people may start working without creating pages or may stop working without notifying anyone. As of 2014, about 2,200 were participating in article assessments for the Version 1.0 Editorial Team. There is a manually maintained list of WikiProjects at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.
What's the biggest WikiProject?
Nobody knows, because not all participants add their names to a membership list, and membership lists are almost always out of date. You can find out which projects' main pages are being watched by the most users at Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProject watchers.
Which WikiProject has tagged the most articles as being within their scope?
WikiProject Biography has tagged about 1.2 million articles, making it more than three times the size of the second largest WikiProject. About ten groups have tagged more than 100,000 articles. You can see a list of projects and the number of articles they have assessed here.
Which WikiProject's pages get changed the most?
See Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProjects by changes. These changes may have been made by anyone, not just by participants in the WikiProject.
Who gets to decide whether a WikiProject is permitted to tag an article?
That is the exclusive right of the participants of the WikiProject. Editors at an article may neither force the group to tag an article nor refuse to permit them to tag an article. See WP:PROJGUIDE#OWN.
I think a couple of WikiProjects should be merged. Is that okay?
You must ask the people who belong to those groups, even if the groups appear to be inactive. It's okay for different groups of people to be working on similar articles. WikiProjects are people, not lists of articles. If you identify and explain clear, practical benefits of a merger to all of the affected groups, they are likely to agree to combining into a larger group. However, if they object, then you may not merge the pages. For less-active groups, you may need to wait a month or more to make sure that no one objects.
Shortcut:

Proposal: Disallow transcluded to-do lists[edit]

Discussion[edit]

I propose WikiProject tags are disallowed to transclude to-do lists unrelated to the article. For example, Wikipedia:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)/to do is currently transcluded on around 14000 article talk pages with {{WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)}}. Some disadvantages of this: Waste of server resources and bandwidth. Users of the mobile version or without Javascript see the full to-do lists on the talk pages and not just a "[show]" link. WhatLinksHere for a page linked in the to-do list gets thousands of irrelevant talk pages. Special:WantedPages (which is updated contrary to MediaWiki:Wantedpages-summary) becomes pretty useless when it mainly shows arbitrary pages on to-do lists. Other stats are probably also polluted. The only advantage of the system seems to be that readers of a tagged talk page can see the to-do list by clicking "show" instead of a link to the list itself. This search finds many WikiProject tags using transclusion. If we disallow it then a single central template change should be able to replace most or all transcluded to-do lists with a link to the list. Each WikiProject can then decide whether to remove/reword the link, redesign their to-do list for better direct viewing, or just leave things as they are. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:46, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

It's a very good proposal. The WikiProject banners should be just that - banners - and do not need to transclude information such as to-do lists onto the talk pages of thousands of articles. This is the type of information that should be linked to, not transcluded. — This, that and the other (talk) 00:18, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
I found one a few days ago - {{WikiProject Dance}} - which shows either of two to-do lists (the WikiProject Ballet To-do list or the WikiProject Dance To-do list), depending on whether |Ballet-todolist=yes is set or not. It's not even tied to the parameter |Ballet=yes - they are independent, and can be set yes/no or no/yes. That's probably one to rationalise. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:23, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
I've done this as a start. But I support the general notion of this proposal, with the caveat that if a WikiProject really wants to do this then we shouldn't stand in their way. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:30, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
And I've documented that change. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:56, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
This sounds like a no-brainer, but the ease of getting it done seems to be somewhere between herding cats and nailing jello to a tree. Does anyone have a proposed plan for making this happen? --Guy Macon (talk) 01:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I have only previewed it with 2 of the 128 cases but the quick solution would be replacing the contents of Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/todolist with something like <tr><td></td><td colspan="2">'''[[{{{TODO_LINK}}}|{{{TODO_TITLE|To-do list}}}]]'''</td></tr><noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude>. But when it's no longer a collapsible table, maybe the link should be placed elsewhere. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Waste of server resources and bandwidth: Don't worry about performance.
Users of the mobile version: Users who are browsing talk pages on mobile (heck, any pages) probably understand the implications that may have on their data plans or speed of loading.
Javascript: Similarly.
WhatLinksHere for a page linked in the to-do list gets thousands of irrelevant talk pages.: I'm not convinced that this is an issue. Users using WhatLinksHere understand the implications.
Special:WantedPages (which is updated contrary to MediaWiki:Wantedpages-summary) becomes pretty useless when it mainly shows arbitrary pages on to-do lists: Special:WantedPages is and has largely always been useless....
I don't see a convincing case here to remove functionality for a group of users who seem to desire it. Mind you, I don't see the point in to do lists in WikiProject templates because I do feel like it's attempting to reach the wrong audience, but that's not my call (nor do I feel perturbed enough with the issue and am unlikely to perturb one way or the other in the future). Regardless, I would expect removal of this functionality would be found to have consensus by a large group of at the minimum the affected projects before implementation. --Izno (talk) 03:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I posted notifications to several pages including Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) and Wikipedia talk:Talk page guidelines. Are you suggesting to notify each of the 128 affected WikiProjects about the discussion? Or we could make Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/todolist produce a link to the discussion in its one million transclusions. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
That is precisely my suggestion. I would suggest WP:CENT and adding a WP:RFC tag as well. --Izno (talk) 21:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support – To-do list entries in WikiProject banners should link to the project's to-do list, not transclude it, for all the reasons nominated. They are a drag, even on non-mobile devices. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:56, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Not only are hundreds of extra links in the WhatLinksHere a major pain to deal with when moving a page, but they make it impossible for automated analysis tools to measure the true link popularity of a page. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support To me the entire idea of Wikiproject banners has probably outlived its usefulness. The only somewhat useful thing they do that a simple category tag couldn't do is the article rating system, which is itself poorly maintained, and inconsistently applied (except for FA/GA which have real standards). At some point in the future it might be good to have a conversation regarding breaking assessment out into its own template (with global, more objective, possibly even bot-assigned standards, not WikiProject dictated standards) and changing Wikiproject banners into category tags. Gigs (talk) 17:07, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    WikiProject banners don't just indicate class and importance. They give other information too, and are good for finding a discussion page where you can post a notice with a wider audience. It's not just FA and GA that have real standards - see WP:ACLASS and WP:BCLASS. But most of the criteria for any given class are subjective, so I don't see how a bot can judge that, for example, "the article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies", which is B class criterion 2. WikiProjects dictate importance ratings, but they do not dictate standards for classification. Most WikiProject banners have a link to a classification guidance page: consider my three examples that I gave at WT:GAN#Suggested minor final step in review process - Trains has quality scale; Yorkshire has quality scale; Architecture has quality scale - if you follow these, you'll see that the "WikiProject article quality grading scheme" that each one uses is identical. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    The classification scheme is fairly standardized. Importance is something the WikiProjects get to assign themselves. I'm puzzled why you would think otherwise on this point. --Izno (talk) 21:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    • I clicked random article 5 times. I'd say the worst assessment example is Jitendra_Prasada, stub class. This is clearly not a stub. I'd say the primary bias is to underrate articles. If one looks at the actual criteria, a C class article is supposed to be one that needs major cleanup and might only cite a couple sources. Another one of the 5 random articles was Martin_Scorsese_(song) listed as stub as well. For such a narrow topic, this is a somewhat complete article.
      Coming at this from another angle, I took a look at a C class article by navigating through the top level category. Horse_teeth. Is this an article that contains a bunch of irrelevant information and needs major cleanup? Sure, we may have "standardized" criteria, but they aren't being applied in a useful way. Gigs (talk) 20:34, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support I do not think that these lists are a useful way to recruit editors to engage in the tasks on the list or to draw attention to projects. I do not know of any WikiProject which has a community which regularly maintains its to-do list, and I think that perhaps all to-do lists are either stagnant or at best maintained by a single person. Removing this non-functional process would improve the banner by not presenting a disappointing feature to users. Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    I can think of at least one which does maintain its to do list (amusingly not in the list above—I'm not sure why): WP:VG ({{WikiProject Video games}}). --Izno (talk) 21:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    Izno I am not seeing exactly how in the code they are generating their to-do list. It looks completely different from other to-do lists I have seen, so may rely on other code, and be excluded from anything that happens as a result of this discussion. That could explain why it is not on this list. Could someone else look at this? Blue Rasberry (talk) 22:10, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    Yes, I looked into it myself after making the above comment. They're basically not using the to_do hook as per the meta template; instead they are inserting a template into the "bottom miscellaneous" hook of the meta template, which was already developed separately from a /todo page (which I bet is still lying around). --Izno (talk) 22:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment I don't have an opinion, just wanted to say that I hope the projects affected received a notice of this discussion. Ottawahitech (talk) 16:30, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
  • 'Support—they take up a lot of screen real estate for little benefit. The items in the to do lists are rarely pertinent to many of the individual articles upon which they appear. Imzadi 1979  03:21, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Outdated WikiProjects[edit]

I do realize that many of the WikiProjects, other than those popular active ones, are either outdated, relatively unknown, or just simply abandoned. Why is that so? Are there any suggestions on how this situation can be improved? My suggestion would be to introduce newly registered users to WikiProjects, and show them how it works to coordinate contributions and also to replace inactive users. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, I do realize the WikiProject task forces links are not prominent enough. Sometimes articles are not clearly shown that they are a part of a WikiProject. Maybe putting something like, "This article is part of the XX WikiProject task force. You may, optionally, join as a member to help coordinate and improve this article" at the header or footer will help, perhaps? 115.66.106.201 (talk) 19:28, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Basically, there seems to be a sort of "standard history" for most WikiProjects, which, basically, get to the point of getting a lot of the most popular or core content related to their topic developed, much of which can be fairly easily sourced, and then becoming a bit more "work" thereafter, when they become a bit less popular. There are also a lot of cases where editors who may have been, as it were, the central driving force of a WikiProject leave wikipedia, making it less likely for the projects to stay current. I honestly don't know if any of the welcome templates in Category:Welcome templates include specific links to WikiProjects, possibly/probably because of the lack of activity of at least some of them and the likelihood of no response or inadequate response if they seek an inactive project. Not a very good answer, admittedly, but it is what comes to mind.
Regarding your second point, policies and guidelines prohibit placing any sort of notification for the strictly informal WikiProjects in the articles themselves, indicating they are supposed to be placed on the article talk page. Admittedly, though, several Wikiprojects haven't placed notices there either. John Carter (talk) 20:06, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
Hello, 115.66.106.201. I'm currently working on WikiProject X, an effort to improve WikiProjects. We've found that WikiProjects have trouble sustaining the interest of contributors, even if they start out strong. This is for a lot of reasons, including the central organizers going away, the lack of continuous recruitment of new participants, and the diminishing excitement as the workload shifts from creating new articles to maintenance work. I would love to make WikiProjects part of the Wikipedia onboarding process, but it would be difficult with a lot of inactive WikiProjects (a chicken and egg problem). I also had an idea of automated recruitment based on editing patterns; I'm currently working on the infrastructure that helps to make that possible. Any additional ideas you have would be appreciated. Harej (talk) 15:07, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Gathering editors/finding new ones for a project[edit]

Hello, there. I've submitted a grant proposal for the Inspire Project, and have been trying to figure out the best way to attract existing editors to the project and/or attract new editors. This is obviously a system-wide problem (reading the above discussions and the discussions they link to)

My questions for this group:

  • Is it best to find individual editors who are active and invite them to the project via their talk pages?
  • Is it appropriate to request publicity for the project on the various blogs?
  • When doing online organizing, do members normally use social media, email, or some other medium? What has tended to work best?

Thanks in advance!
Natalie Bueno Vasquez (talk) 17:24, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello Natalie Bueno Vasquez, can you clarify whether you are referring to your specific Inspire Campaign project, the WikiProject Women's History mentioned in the proposal, or Wikipedia as a project writ large? Harej (talk) 19:47, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi, Harej, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm referring to the specific project to add more women to the days of the year. At this point I'm unclear on what I should link you to, since there is the Inspire project grant page with its talk page, the project proposal page with its talk page, and there's been activity on all four pages. From reading on this talk pages and others, there appears to be a widespread issue with recruiting and retention. I'd like to know if what I'm suggesting above is appropriate in the context of Wikipedia "manners", and if those techniques have been or are considered to be successful. Natalie Bueno Vasquez (talk) 21:55, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Hillary Rodham Clinton[edit]

I'm not sure where to list this in the directory, but I created WikiProject Hillary Rodham Clinton as a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia articles related to Hillary Clinton, similar to the WikiProject for Barack Obama. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:02, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Redesign for Template:WikiProject Footer[edit]

I have created a redesign for Template:WikiProject Footer in the style of a navbox.

If changed: see this revision.

Any comments at all? --Mrjulesd (talk) 17:00, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Much better 'support change to old template ...I say we replce the old one with this new one. Old one just links to other pages with listings of links..the new one actually has the info so editors done have link runaround. -- Moxy (talk) 17:40, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
The status quo is much simpler and doesn't try to show everything at once. Harej (talk) 18:22, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Prefer new version The old version presents three links, all of which can only be useful to Wikipedians with a deep understanding of the WikiProject system. This new version presents a hope of being useful, and is it subjectively curated to present information which is more likely to be relevant, and the navigation box system is already used throughout Wikipedia so would be recognizable here. I cannot see serious drawbacks to replacing the older system with this one, and I see benefits to using this template. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:30, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

"Library" pages for wikiprojects[edit]

It may not be a particularly good idea, but I am in the early stages of putting together a "Library" subpage for WikiProject Religion, which I hope will list all the PD sources included in the bibliographies of the individual articles in the most recent Lindsay Jones Encyclopedia of Religion. With some luck, if those sources are available at archive.org or elsewhere as PD entites, we might be able to add the .pdf files or .djvu files to commons, and, maybe, get some people involved in transcribing them for wikisource. It's actually because of their preference for .djvu files that I mentioned that format, even though I myself have yet to figure out how to get the damn plug-in to work to allow me to download and upload such files. It might be worthwhile for other rather broad projects to try something similar. Maybe, if it winds up being at all useful. John Carter (talk) 18:50, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

John Carter
  • It seems like a lot of work, but yes, it would be useful if someone wanted to do it, and a nice proof of concept which I have not seen elsewhere.
  • To download .djvu files from archive.org replace /stream/ with /download/ in the URL. That problem has existed for years and the only way to know how to do it is to have someone tell you.
Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:58, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 3[edit]

Greetings! For this month's issue...

We have demos!

After a lengthy research and design process, we decided for WikiProject X to focus on two things:

  • A WikiProject workflow that focuses on action items: discussions you can participate in and tasks you can perform to improve the encyclopedia; and
  • An automatically updating WikiProject directory that gives you lists of users participating in the WikiProject and editing in that subject area.

We have a live demonstration of the new WikiProject workflow at WikiProject Women in Technology, a brand new WikiProject that was set up as an adjunct to a related edit-a-thon in Washington, DC. The goal is to surface action items for editors, and we intend on doing that through automatically updated working lists. We are looking into using SuggestBot to generate lists of outstanding tasks, and we are looking into additional options for automatic worklist generation. This takes the burden off of WikiProject editors to generate these worklists, though there is also a "requests" section for Wikipedians to make individual requests. (As of writing, these automated lists are not yet live, so you will see a blank space under "edit articles" on the demo WikiProject. Sorry about that!) I invite you to check out the WikiProject and leave feedback on WikiProject X's talk page.

Once the demo is sufficiently developed, we will be working on a limited deployment on our pilot WikiProjects. We have selected five for the first round of testing based on the highest potential for impact and will scale up from there.

While a re-designed WikiProject experience is much needed, that alone isn't enough. A WikiProject isn't any good if people have no way of discovering it. This is why we are also developing an automatically updated WikiProject directory. This directory will surface project-related metrics, including a count of active WikiProject participants and of active editors in that project's subject area. The purpose of these metrics is to highlight how active the WikiProject is at the given point of time, but also to highlight that project's potential for success. The directory is not yet live but there is a demonstration featuring a sampling of WikiProjects.

Each directory entry will link to a WikiProject description page which automatically list the active WikiProject participants and subject-area article editors. This allows Wikipedians to find each other based on the areas they are interested in, and this information can be used to revive a WikiProject, start a new one, or even for some other purpose. These description pages are not online yet, but they will use this template, if you want to get a feel of what they will look like.

We need volunteers!

WikiProject X is a huge undertaking, and we need volunteers to support our efforts, including testers and coders. Check out our volunteer portal and see what you can do to help us!

As an aside...

Wouldn't it be cool if lists of requested articles could not only be integrated directly with WikiProjects, but also shared between WikiProjects? Well, we got the crazy idea of having experimental software feature Flow deployed (on a totally experimental basis) on the new Article Request Workshop, which seeks to be a place where editors can "workshop" article ideas before they get created. It uses Flow because Flow allows, essentially, section-level categorization, and in the future will allow "sections" (known as "topics" within Flow) to be included across different pages. What this means is that you have a recommendation for a new article tagged by multiple WikiProjects, allowing for the recommendation to appear on lists for each WikiProject. This will facilitate inter-WikiProject collaboration and will help to reduce duplicated work. The Article Request Workshop is not entirely ready yet due to some bugs with Flow, but we hope to integrate it into our pilot WikiProjects at some point.

Harej (talk) 00:57, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Bibliography[edit]

Hello. I am a student in a class on modern and contemporary Japanese theatre, and I am going to be editing this page as part of a class project. Here is a list of sources I am going to use. Please let me know if you have any comments! Thank you. Secondabroad0909 (talk) 08:08, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

@Secondabroad0909: the best place to discuss an article is on that article's talk page, not here. For example, to discuss the article Kyōka Izumi you should post on Talk:Kyōka Izumi. Best wishes — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:37, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
@MSGJ: Thank you very much, Martin. I will move my post to the talk page. Thank you again.---Shiori Secondabroad0909 (talk) 00:06, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

RFC at WikiProject Film[edit]

There's a discussion that may concern this project at WT:FILM#RfC: Do list items need their own WP article in order to be sourced in list articles?. More input is appreciated. Lapadite (talk) 15:34, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Ageing and culture[edit]

The WikiProject Ageing and culture was created outside of the Proposals process, and I'm wondering if they should just go ahead or if any editors have any comments or objections about this. What I'm thinking is that it seems like a niche topic, and the founder is quite new here, and the other two members are completely new. Being new isn't a bad thing but I'm afraid they might not stay here long and the project will be abandoned soon. — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 17:05, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Editors are free to form projects as they see fit...hopefully they are not forming a project that is already covered or has been rejected in the past. That said all-ways a good thing to see editors collaborate....give the project some time....if there is a problem because they are new...bring it up here and more experienced editors can chime in if need be. If the project never gets of the ground (abandoned) we can deal with it then. -- Moxy (talk) 17:14, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Maybe "Ageing and society" would've been a better title? — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 10:45, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Input pls[edit]

....Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Project advice for no movies in navboxes -- Moxy (talk) 17:13, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Scope of a certain WikiProject[edit]

I'm looking for some comments over here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Television_Stations#Are_you_kidding_me.3F. — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 08:21, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Can I join?[edit]

I would like to join this WikiProject. Please tell me if there is anything I need to know. Leave me messages on my talk page. Thanks! Writer freak Contributions 18:32, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Writer_freak! To quote Wikipedia:WikiProject Council, "we do not maintain a formal list of members, so there's no need to sign up." So, by posting this message, you can say you are a participant. Welcome! Cheers, self-appointed council member Harej (talk) 19:23, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I second that welcome...here here!--Moxy (talk) 22:19, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
@Moxy: the term is "hear, hear". --Redrose64 (talk) 22:41, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
lol :0--Moxy (talk) 02:26, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
Ditto. Welcome! ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:40, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
@Harej: What can I do to help? Writer freak Contributions 15:11, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
@Writer freak:: It doesn't seem like the WikiProject Council has a lot of standing business, but it does have talk page activity from time to time. So I recommend adding this page to your watchlist and participating in conversations as you see fit. (Especially since I will be starting some conversations here soon as part of my WikiProject X work!) Harej (talk) 17:12, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton[edit]

Please be aware that there is currently a deletion discussion regarding the above-named new Hillary Rodham Clinton WikiProject, which was previously announced at this talk page.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:14, 27 May 2015 (UTC)