Talk:Mangalore

Name change Mangalooru withheld!

I removed the sentence in the article that said that However, this name change has not been implemented due to opposition from Mangaloreans across the world. The reference provided also doesn't indicate that the name change has been withheld due to this reason. The name change of Mangalore and also the other cities has not taken place due to the Karnataka Govt not following certain procedures. Later after the Kumaraswamy Govt fell, the state under Presidents rule has not followed up. In all probabilities names of all the cities mentioned by the Govt be changed after a new Govt is formed. Unless there is a change of priorities from the new Govt.--PremKudva^Talk 06:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Why names are necessary

Regarding the undo by Crazysoul

I am sure the article would like to achieve FA status. Anything which occurs in the Lead has to reappear in the prose according to the rule of thumb. That's why, these sentences

Konkanis use the variant Kodial. The Bearys call it Maikala. Kannadigas use the variant Mangaluru for the city. In addition, the city is also known as Mangalapuram in Malayalam. have been readded.

Its basically a FA criterion. The article's status will be challenged by reviwers if anything in the Lead is not covered up in the Prose. Hope this explains why the sentences have been readded.Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 13:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

My suggestion is that magaluru is not a variant. It is an official name in kannada. Others can be can be called as variants coz it doenst have any official status. And i dont think malayalam name is necessary. Then u need to add everything what tamilians, telugus, gujjus, or hindi people call it. --Crazysoul (talk) 03:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I have implemented your suggestions. If you check Mangaluru has just been called a name not a variant. Malayalam name has been removed.Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 07:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Red links

What's the purpose of adding red links when the corresponding articles are not existing? --Crazysoul (talk) 04:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

The article should be extremely comprehensive if it wants to attain FA status. That's why articles such as Treaty of Mangalore, Sultan Battery (Mangalore) and some crucial topics related to the city need to be created. You can help by adding more red links and creating articles.Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 07:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

But some of the items that have been red marked cannot be expanded to an artcile. e.g. DK telecom District, corporation bank park, etc --Crazysoul (talk) 09:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Mangalore

How about launching a Wikiproject Mangalore which is dedicated to the South Canara and Udupi districts or Tulu Nadu?KennethJohn^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 07:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

If sufficient number of editors are interested I don't see why not.--PremKudva^Talk 07:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Civic administration

I've seen several edits & reverts on the title of this section. It is not right to use the word government for the governing body of a city. The city is not run by the government, but a council. Almost all articles of various Indian cities use the title "Civic Administration" for this section. In India, the term "Government" can be used only for Delhi as it has its own legislative assembly. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Peer Review June 2008

Mangalore

Previous peer review

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for June 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because this article is already a GA. Suggestions to promote this article to FA status will be very much helpful.

Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 17:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: I think this is quite an interesting article and it seems to have a great deal of information in it. I think it needs some MOS clean up and a good copyedit to reach FA level. Here are some suggestions for improvement:

• A model article is often useful for ideas and examples to follow. There are many city FAs at Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Geography_and_places, including Ahmedabad, which may be useful as models.
• The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way, but Etymology and Climate do not seem to be in the lead, as two examples.
• I also think the lead could be four paragraphs - please see WP:LEAD
• Per WP:MOS#Images, images should be set at thumb so reader preferences for width takes over. Vertical images can be smaller with "upright"
• Some of the sources may not meet WP:RS - what makes www.inida9.com (Ref 19) a reliable source, for example?
• Refs are also not consistent - Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. {{cite web}} and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V
• Provide context for the reader - just in the lead I had to click on Western Ghats to understand what they were, but it were "Western Ghats mountains" or perhaps mountain range, that would be clearer. See WP:PCR
• Spell out numbers ten and less, so New Mangalore Port is India's 9th [ninth] largest cargo handling port[,] handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.[5] Also is there a way to avoid handling twice in the same sentence?
• Another awkward sentence - what does "by Mangalore standards" add? Does Mangalore have different standards for temperature and humidity compared to the rest of the world? The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards.[36]
• For help with a copy edit ask one of the volunteers at WP:PRV or one of the editors listed at WP:LOCE
• Please use my examples as just that - these are not an exhaustive list and if one example is given, please check to make sure there are not other occurrences of the same problem.

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments by Kensplanet

• A model article is often useful for ideas and examples to follow. There are many city FAs at Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Geography_and_places, including Ahmedabad, which may be useful as models.
  • We will try to emulate the style of all FA's as far as possible.
• The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way, but Etymology and Climate do not seem to be in the lead, as two examples.
  • We are working hard to modify the Lead. We are trying to include details from each and every section.
• I also think the lead could be four paragraphs - please see WP:LEAD
  • The Lead is now of 4 paragraphs as per WP:LEAD
• Per WP:MOS#Images, images should be set at thumb so reader preferences for width takes over. Vertical images can be smaller with "upright"
  •  Done. All Images set at thumb.
• Some of the sources may not meet WP:RS - what makes www.inida9.com (Ref 19) a reliable source, for example?
  • (Ref 19) removed since it fails to meet WP:RS. Additionally, all such refs which fail to meet WP:RS and WP:V removed
• Refs are also not consistent - Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. {{cite web}} and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V
  • We are working to make Refs consistent. It may take some time.
• Provide context for the reader - just in the lead I had to click on Western Ghats to understand what they were, but it were "Western Ghats mountains" or perhaps mountain range, that would be clearer. See WP:PCR
  • We are working to provide context to each and every such term which may be unknown to many people. It may take some time.
• Spell out numbers ten and less, so New Mangalore Port is India's 9th [ninth] largest cargo handling port[,] handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.[5] Also is there a way to avoid handling twice in the same sentence?
  •  Done
    Old Sentence: New Mangalore Port is India's 9th largest cargo handling port, handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.
    New Sentence: New Mangalore Port is India's ninth largest cargo handling port. It handles 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.
• Another awkward sentence - what does "by Mangalore standards" add? Does Mangalore have different standards for temperature and humidity compared to the rest of the world? The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards.[36]
  • "by Mangalore standards" removed.
    Old Sentence: The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards.
    New Sentence: The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest.
• For help with a copy edit ask one of the volunteers at WP:PRV or one of the editors listed at WP:LOCE
  • Surely, we will contact them once the article is ready for a FAC. Till then, we'll try to improve the article in our own ways.
• Please use my examples as just that - these are not an exhaustive list and if one example is given, please check to make sure there are not other occurrences of the same problem.
  • We'll try to resolve all such issues.
• Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at {{Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog}} (which is how I found this article).
  • In response to your peer review of our article, I have peer-reviewed an article named Hindu-German Conspiracy whose review can be found here Wikipedia:Peer review/Hindu-German Conspiracy/archive2

Thankyou for the review, Kensplanet (talk) 17:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

• You are very welcome - thanks for your review too! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:19, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Is Kannada a local language of Mangalore?

An Annonymous user by the IP 122.167.59.203 claims that Kannada is not a local language of Mangalore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mangalore&diff=221240653&oldid=221172765

Please explain your edits 122.167.59.203--->>>Kensplanet (talk) 07:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Wrong. It is very much a language of Mangalore. Heck our district is called Dakshina Kannada. Mr Anon should change that too then.--PremKudva^Talk 11:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I too agree with premkudva. Except for the migrants, there is not a single localite who doesnt know Kannada. --Crazysoul (talk) 15:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

References

There are many unreliable sites which may fail to meet WP:RS and WP:V. I am removing all of them. So please do not bother about my edits regarding references. Regards, Kensplanet (talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Lead

It has been brought to notice in the peer Review that the Lead is not concise enough. It fails to include some data from each and every section. If you think you can put some good information in the Lead, then please do so. Regards, Kensplanet (talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Mangalooru Mallige

Can anyone put some details of Mangalore's jasmine popularly known as Mangalooru Mallige? --Crazysoul (talk) 17:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

What is Mangalooru Mallige?In which section does this go.Kensplanet (talk) 18:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Mangalorru is a variety of jasmine flower which is aavailable only in Mangalore. They are thinner in structure and more fragrant compared to Mysore jasmine.It can be put either under economy or geography--Crazysoul (talk) 09:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article Status!!!

Well, I think this Article is ready for a FAC. This Article incorporates enough data on the city. If the editors have any suggestions, any more data then now is the time to put it. Please let me know what you all think?Kensplanet (talk) 12:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Article certainly looks ready for FAC. Time to give it a try, and see what the reviewers say. We can work on the issues, if any, found during the review. - KNM ^Talk 20:04, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I have contacted some copyeditors. They are currently working on the article. We can nominate once their work is over. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions}, 04:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

You are right. Why not give it a try. We can work on the issues found during the review. I have nominated the article at FAC at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates#Mangalore, Kensplanet (talk) 06:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Prose cleanup I

I am trying to clean up the prose but have a few questions about some content that I am not able to understand. I will list my questions below, to hopefully get a better sense of what the intention of the sentence is. Thanks AreJay (talk) 01:20, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• In Geography, it says "The topography of the city ranges from plain to undulating, with four hilly regions natural valleys.." is something missing here? four hilly regions <filler text> natural valleys. I can't quite understand the sentence.

New sentence :The topography of the city ranges from plain to undulating, with several hills, valleys and flat areas within the city.--PremKudva^Talk 07:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• The maximum average humidity recorded should be as of a very specific date, not a general month.

Well, Average clearly contradicts mention of a vey specific date. During the past 30-40 years, humidity data was recorded for all the months. And then Average was taken for all the months. It was then observed that The maximum average humidity recorded was 93% in the month of July and average minimum humidity recorded was 56% in the month of January. How does specific fit here. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 08:52, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Comments AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• In the Economy section, "It handles 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts."....please clarify what "it" is.

It basically means India. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 08:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "Mangalore roof tiles are well-known throughout India and still define the city's skyline" How does this relate to "Economy"?

Done: Removed the sentence. It appears in the lead. More than enough. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 09:16, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "Imports include tropical timber from South-East Asia for furniture making." If the word "include" is being used, more than one example is needed. Just "furniture making" won't suffice.

New sentence :Imports include tropical timber from South-East Asia for the manufacture of furniture and as raw material for the housing industry.--PremKudva^Talk 06:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Comments AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Oops!:-) Setting that right.--PremKudva^Talk 04:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Added other items of import.--PremKudva^Talk 04:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• "The city is also one of the chief entry points for wood to South India" This sentence needs clarification. Entry points as in import perhaps?

New sentence :The city along with Tuticorin is also one of two points for import of wood to South India.--PremKudva^Talk 06:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "This will be the first Petroleum, Chemicals, Petrochemicals Investment Region (PCPIR) of the country, with similar PCPIR's existing at Nayachar in West Bengal, Panipat in Haryana and Achutapuram in Andhra Pradesh." This sentence contradicts itself.

Deleted sentence since cited source and further search show it contradicts as mentioned.--PremKudva^Talk 07:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "According to an International edition of India Today (28 November – 4 December 2006), Mangalore is the fastest growing non metro in South India followed by Kochi." Why is Kochi's mention important if we're trying to say Mangalore is the fastest growing non-metro. Kochi shouldn't be mentioned unless we're trying to say that Mangalore is the second-fastest growing non-metro in S. India, after Kochi.

Deleted.--PremKudva^Talk 07:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I have restored the sentence and modified it to exclude Kochi. There's no need to remove the sentence since it is backed by a reputed periodical. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 13:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• I think the bit about strategic oil reserves and the details provided about it are not in line with WP:SUMMARY.

Deleted extra information.--PremKudva^Talk 07:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "Growing numbers of slums have been a cause of concern in Mangalore." Concern to whom?

Deleted sentence, sentence that follows this is adequate enough.--PremKudva^Talk 07:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• Two intro sentences in "Culture" about the museum and hi-tech library don't align well with each other and give the para a choppy feel. I would either add a small phrase introducing the discussion of the museum and library, and tie the two together in the same sentence, or just not include them, if they are going to remain two disparate thoughts. Same issue with Yakshagana.

Template:Comments AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Prose cleanup II

Thanks AreJay I am going through these points [see Prose cleanup I] as well as some of the other editors here.--PremKudva^Talk 06:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Premkudva. I'll go ahead and continue to add some points below that I haven't been able to address myself (for lack of content knowledge or otherwise).

• "Popular festivals in the city include Dussera, Diwali, Christmas, Maha Shivratri, Easter, Navratri, Good Friday, Eid, Moharram, and Mahavir Jayanti" - list is too long, as is usually the case with India articles. This should be shortened to 3-4 festivals, taking into account the diverse religions of Mangalore.

Corrected--PremKudva^Talk 04:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• Correct me if I'm wrong, but happalas and sandiges (at least as used in Kannada) are not pickles as indicated in the "Culture" section. If I had to define them, I would call them fried flatbreds or fried wafers.

Happala is no pickle as you mention, I do not know what a sandige is?--PremKudva^Talk 04:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• There should be some more info on mainstream sports If I remember correctly, isn't Prakash Padukone from the Konkani community...not sure if he is Mangalorean though. What about Mangalore's contributions to state and national hockey, cricket, soccer and other sports? Wasn't Ravi Shastri born and/or brought up in Mangalore?

Mr Padukone was born in Bangalore and Ravi Shastri in Bombay as per wiki. All Mangloreans went to banking rather than sports it looks like;-)--PremKudva^Talk 04:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• Education and sports are unrelated topics. Sports should be moved to the culture section, or be an independent section, if there's enough content

Moving Sports to Culture is not a good idea, since the Culture section already has enough details and appending sports there would make the section unnecessarily lenghty. We'll try to find more data. Just give us 2-3 days. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 13:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• "These institutions attract students from all over the country due to the quality of their programs"....WP:PEACOCK? Citation needed, if available.

Done: Removed this sentence. Finding citations for such sentences is next to impossible. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 15:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• "In addition, the city has also contributed towards the Konkani Film Industry." Contributed how?
• In "Civic Administration", the mayor of Mangalore should be mentioned.

Done
Removed Deputy Mayor from Infobox as he/she is mentioned in Civic Administration section.
Added a Table, mentioning Mayor and Deputy Mayor. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 14:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• "The Telecom Density in the city is 8.74 per 100 population" The term "telecom density" should be defined so that it is understandable to the average reader. Thanks AreJay (talk) 21:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, Telephone density and Telecom density mean the same. Anyway, for the average reader, Telecom density has been replaced by telephone density. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 15:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! The article is looking much better now. I still have some concerns, but the prose issue has all but gone for me. I will update the FAC with the improvements in prose, and add my additional concerns there. Let me know if you have any questions...great job addressing FAC concerns so far. Thanks AreJay (talk) 21:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Image of Mangalore country side

I have added a image in .../wiki/Mangalore#Geography_and_climate section please review it. NAvin Shetty Brahmavar 17:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Was this image taken within Mangalore, ie at Kadri, near Kulshekar, or some of the areas where paddy fields are still cultivated? Do inform the place name here.--PremKudva^Talk 06:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

He had mentioned Mangalore District. It can also mean South Canara district. That has to be cleared. If the paddy fields belong to SC district, then the image has to be removed from this article. We have to stick to Mangalore city only. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 07:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

It was captured near Puttur (South Canara Dist). - NAvin Shetty Brahmavar 14:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Navin Shetty Brahmavar (talk • contribs)

We are removing this image from the Mangalore article, please place it in the Puttur article instead.--PremKudva^Talk 05:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Image of NITK

I think NITK image would be a more suitable candidate for the Education section. Even the name is clearly visible in front. Whereas the KPT image doesn't even have a signboard. Moreover Infosys is prominently visible in the background. One might have to mark & show which one is KPT for the newbies. I suggest replacing KPT image with NITK image. --Crazysoul (talk) 12:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

O Sorry, actually I was about to replace the Image the same day when you informed me. I was just a bit lazy to dig in the history. Anyway I have reinstalled it. Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 14:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Featured article candidate

Mangalore is currently a FAC. (Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mangalore). Please help the article to promote it to FA status. Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 15:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I noticed the efforts here and thought a map might be a useful addition. I have attempted a rough version here and perhaps it can be improved by those with better knowledge or sources. Image:Mangalore.svg, this is made on the basis of several sources on the net and I believe my creation should qualify for release under public domain. Shyamal (talk) 16:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations! Mangalore is now a featured article:-)--PremKudva^Talk 11:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Congrats. Everyone. Kensplanet (talk) 09:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Congrats everyone.. especially kensplanet for all the efforts that he had putforth --Crazysoul (talk) 18:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Order of names

Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada is the right order. Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary is not the right order. It should be strictly according to the no of native speakers of a language. As far as official languages go, all official things have to be mentioned in the Infobox. If you check, the official language has been mentioned Kannada in the Infobox.

For the Rest of the article (including the first line), we have to follow the native speakers order. No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.

Best example is the Troy article. Although Troy is officially in Turkey and the official language of Troy is Turkish, but people belonging to the Greek ethnic group are the largest and hence Greek has been mentioned first. There are many such articles. The native speaker order is the right order Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 08:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

please no WP:OR and WP:OWN
In Wikipedia articles, scripts should in alphabetical order, not based on total no of speakers. beary should not be used, because they are very less in number.
for example see Kashmir, there are six scripts in total, all of them are in alphabetical order and not based on total number of speakers, if you have any problem call an admin whom you like, let this issue solved by an admin.
this article is related to india, show Indian cities as an examples not foreign city. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

The Naming conventions for all cities are the same - Indian or any foreign city. Please give me the statistics of Mangalore. Muslims constitute around 15% of the city. Please not the statistics of South Canara. Most of them are Bearis. Around 14% maybe. You call 14% less. Then, Beary should be first. Mentioning Kannada first looks af if Most Mangaloreans are Kannadigas, then Tuluvas etc......which is absolutely incorrect and totally unencyclopedic. As far as official languages go, it has been mentioned in the Infobox. Only the Infobox is supposed to have all official area stats, STD codes, population etc...Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Please don't throw back the question.
can you show me the statistics of tulu, konkani, kannada, beary speakers with WP:RS (not in %, display in numbers) . Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

and also note that, it is possible to remove konkani translaion, because they are migrates not natives. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Please tell me how do you define natives. Mangalorean Catholics and other GSB's have been here since 1500's. They have built churches and other significant institutions in the city. No explanation needed for that. 500 years - more than enough to be called locals. No need to mention only Kannadigas are considered migrants today. Though I do not consider myself as a Mangalorean, but only a Bombayite, there's no denying that I have Mangalorean Catholic descent and I am a Mangalorean through my descent Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

No need to mention only Kannadigas are considered migrants today
;Please correct your sentence, Kannadigas are not migrants they are part of Mangalore(Karnataka). They are staying in mangalore from the day of city born.
They have built churches and other significant institutions in the city
;Yes,they built churches and institutions for missionary activities. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

No need to correct. It's absolutely right. Please cite your claims. The Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Diocese of Mangalore condemns forcible conversions in its strongest possible extent. Anyway, Did you know the people who you claim are indulging in forcible conversions are Mangalorean Protestants not Mangalorean Catholics (hope you know the difference). These Mangalorean Protestants are themselves Kannadigas and speak Kannada. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 05:09, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

No need to correct. It's absolutely right.
What nonsense is this?? your assumptions and baseless statements don't work here. Mr.Kensplanet, do have any proof to say Kannadigas are migrants? Talk pages are highly visible content, if some mangaloorean see your baseless comment, he will start laughing at you. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 00:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

This is sounding like a forum now. I guarantee you my freind, no one will laugh at me Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, Kannadigas migrated from where??? Tamilnadu? andhra? or maharashtra? ANSWER ME. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I refuse to entertain this forumish discussion anymore. Because along with you, I'll be blocked too..Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I'm saying Talk pages are highly visible content. So stop this discussion which takes the Poll nowhere. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Except for the migrants, there is no single localite who doesn't know Kannada.
as above statement mentioned it is very clear that kannada speakers are more. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

We refer to only native tongues. That way English rules for all purposes much above Kannada. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Kensplanet said No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.
adding, neither you nor me owning this article. PS:For more than 2 years Kannada script is placed before Tulu script, now how can User:Kensplanet change the order without gaining consensus? is he owning this article? Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on consensus. There is nothing to comment in Order of names because in some articles scripts are arranged in alphabetical order and in some other articles first preference is given to native scripts as mention by User:Kensplanet. so i decided to start a poll on this issue, lets see what other wikiusers agrees. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

There's something called as WP:BOLD.

That's for sure. You do not know anything about Mangalore. I'll answer all your posts. May we have some Mangaloreans like User:Crazysoul, User:Premkudva commenting Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Don't assume things over here. I know Mangalore better than you, i am a resident of Mangalore, come to Kankanadi i will show you whom am i. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but by your silly posts, it doesn't look like you know about Mangalore and it's Culture more than me. No need to meet people like you. I have better thngs to do and better people to meet. Anyway, are you the Mayor of Mangalore. :) Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 05:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but by your silly posts
case of WP:NPA. silly???? who is doing silly here, me?? hello Mr.Kensplanet this silly thread is started by you not me.
it doesn't look like you know about Mangalore and it's Culture more than me
you said that Kannadigas are migrants, its enough to show you don't know nothing about mangalore. Just because you've written this FA article, it doesn't mean that you know everything about mangalore. you've collected information from many sources and wrote this article. lol, anyone can do this.
No need to meet people like you. I have better thngs to do and better people to meet.
Sorry, even I'm not interested in meeting you, i don't like the people who show hatred behaviour towards our community.
are you the Mayor of Mangalore
silly question by FA author. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I didn't call you silly. I called your posts silly. Please do not threaten me with WP:NPA. Watch it properly. No admin can block me for this. When did I say, I have written this FA. Please tell me and please do not assume. Many editor's contributions are involved here. Please check History. You are right I've collected information from many sources and wrote this article. But according to your outward bearing, it seems you are trying to say that Feauturing articles is a very easy task. No chum, it's not so easy. We had to break our bones for this. We had submitted the article at numerous Peer reviews, FAC's. We had requested many copyeditors for this. Not so easy. You try featuring an article yourself. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Poll: Regarding scripts

A poll to determine the opinions. all are welcome, anyone can vote here by adding SUPPORT in below options (NOTE: Supports by IP's/socks/newly registered accounts are not considered).

Option 1

No change in current order - Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary

1. Support - Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
2. Support - --PremKudva^Talk 04:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
3. Support - User:Crazysoul

Option 2

Change the order to - Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada as per User:Kensplanet comments

1. Strongest Possible Support: I think the Order should be Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
2. Strongest Possible Support: Option 2. That is the way it should be. Tulu,Konkani,Beary,Kannada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pdheeru (talk • contribs) 17:04, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
3. Strongest Possible Support: The order should be Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada.Sanfy^Talk

Section break

Kenplsnet, I have right to end this poll because this poll is started by me. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

This is violation of WP:OWN. After you submit your content on Wikipedia, it is officially accepted in the Public domain. While editing any page, read a bit below

If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it.

You have no right over the contents and the poll now. Polls will be closed later by a common understanding. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

My degree exams will starts from 18th of this month, my mother wont allow me to use internet from tomorrow, so i will not able to login for next couple of days. now tell me who will decide the result of this poll? Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Your exam excuses don't give you any authority over the poll. Why don't you contact an admin. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know any admin here. bye,happy editing Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Kensplanet, if you wish can you please decide the result of this poll Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The Order will be changed only after a consensus has been established. I promise you no one will change the order if it has not been established. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Order of names II

Even though i'm a tuluva, i feel that official name of a city should be given the first place (i.e. Mangalore in English & Mangalooru in kannada). All other names are all unofficial & just orally used. There's no logic that the no. of native speakers should be considered for sorting the names. Do we really have any statistics to prove that the number of speakers are in the same order? As some one rightly pointed out, we are not sure whether bearys outnumber konkanis or vice versa. And what about the malayalis who are also significant in number. Whatever website u may refer to, they only provide estimated figures & not actual. Somebody has also pointed out above that every mangalorean knows kannada, but same cannot be told for other languages. --Crazysoul (talk) 16:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Are U sure Mangalooru is the official name. Can U support it with a REF. It's not always necessary to give the official langauge primary status everywhere. Here's it's not the question of official languges. It's the question of order of local names of the city. Forget Konkani n Beary for a minute. That will be sorted later. But we all know that Tuluvas are in majority. Do you deny this. Shouldn't it come first then. There's no logic that the no. of native speakers should be considered for sorting the names. But mentioning Kannada, Tulu, KOnkani, Beary gives the impression that Kannadigas are in Majority, then Tuluvas, etc...This is wrong. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:28, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

But mentioning Kannada, Tulu, KOnkani, Beary gives the impression that Kannadigas are in Majority, then Tuluvas, etc...This is wrong.
Then why User:Kensplanet didn't change the order year back ?. surprisingly he only noticed after this change.

Please read the policy mentioned in Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic). as per wikipolicy 'Mangaluru' should be mentioned first not Kudla, because The name ‘Mangalore’ is the anglicized version of kannada word ‘Mangaluru’ not tulu word 'Kudla'. hence Mangaluru should be placed first. There is no rule in Wikipedia that scripts should be sorted according to no. of speakers. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

now, Follow the wikipolicy and close this discussion. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 03:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Please tell me which section is this in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic). We do not care from where it is derived. What logic is this? Each and every word in this world is derived from some or the other word. Even the English language which you speak is derived from Greek and Latin. Most of the Indian languages are derived from Sanskrit. There is no rule in Wikipedia that scripts should be sorted according to no. of speakers, but it is always recommended to follow a order. Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary has no order. Better to mention it as Kannada, Beary, Konkani, Tulu in the descending order. Atleast it has an order. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 04:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

if you can able to see through your own eyes ,please read Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic)#Policy. The word 'Mangalore' is anglicized name of Kannada word 'Mangaluru', not tulu word 'Kudla'. moreover, in city Mangalore, common usage word is MANGALURU not KUDLA. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• Kannadiga Warrior, May I first request you to provide an online reliable source which mentions that Mangaluru is the official name of the city. It should specifically mention Mangaluru is the official name of the city. Please no assumptions like Because this is this, so that is that Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 06:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

first you provide the source which mentions tulu speakers are more in number. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

This clearly proves Mangaluru may not be the official name of the city. If yes prove it. You are just wandering around the mulberry bush by throeing questions at me. Can't you even prove it now Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Dear Kensplanet, It can be called height of ignoroance questioning the authenticity of the name Mangalooru in Kannada. All signboards, nameplates, shops, banks, postal dept, corporation, etc, use Mangalooru & not Kudla/Kodial/Maikala. I dont understand why you are so much against the word mangalooru which is derived from mangaladevi temple which is very much in the same city. --Crazysoul (talk) 08:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

It not 'for or against' any name, we are discussing the order in which it has to be written. It should be according to the no. of native speakers. kannada,Tulu,Konkani,Beary does not have any logic. Neither in ascending order or descending order. More over Kannada has been mentioned as official language in the infobox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.93.135 (talk) 16:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Crazysoul, my freind who's questioning the authenticity of the name Mangalooru in Kannada. We respect the name from the bottom of the heart since it is an ancestral and a local name of Mangalore. No one is against Mangalooru. No one wants to remove it. It's just that we would like some sort of order.

• Mangalore (pronounced /ˈmæŋgəlɔr/; Kannada: ಮಂಗಳೂರು, Mangalūru; Tulu: Kudla, ಕುಡ್ಲ; Konkani: Kodial, ಕೊಡಿಯಾಲ್; Beary: Maikala, ಮೈಕಾಲ)
  • For a foreign reader, this doesn't indicate that Kannada is the official language of Mangalore and Mangaluru is the official name. If you want, we can mention it in the Lead itself that Mangaluru is the official name and Kannada is the official language. Only when the reader reads the Infobox, shall he know Kannada is the official language. It would just mean that People belonging to the Kannada ethnic group are the largest. If you want, we can follow the alphabetical order Beary, Kannada, Konkani, Tulu as suggested by Kannadiga Warrior or the Native speaker order. But surely Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary has no order at all.Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 16:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The debate is not about official language. It is about the official name. Why do u want to hide the official name at last? It should come first. And who told that the names should be in the decreasing order of native speakers & not the name popularity or usage? Whether you like to hear it or not, you can't deny the fact that Mangalooru is a popular name 7 extensively used. Even buses plying in this area bear the name mangalooru. It doesnt imply that other languages are minorities. If you are so much keen on indicating the no. of speakers, u may put it at the demography section. Lets not be so jingoistic about unofficial names sidelining the original name. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Can you prove Mangaluru is the official name? Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:33, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

By far the most extensively used name is Kudla, No doubt. all buses mention mangaluru on the boards is only because they are using the official language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.98.28.90 (talk) 17:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Mr IP, don't make your own assumptions here, a simple WHOIS test shows you are from saudi. how can you say KUDLA is more common?. the fact is MANGALURU is the most common usage word. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes ur right, I am currently in Saudi, and that does not stop me from making a comment here. Does it? since Tulu is mostly spoken in Mangalore,Kudla is naturally the most used word. mangaluru may be used only in documents that too Kannada documents. Kannada is used in this part only cos its the official lang of Karnataka. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.60.228 (talk) 16:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps our dear Kannada freind doesn't know, there's a huge Mangalorean diaspora scattered across the gulf. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

New Proposal of changing order

TULU, KANNADA, KONKANI, BEARY
If you all agree with my new order, let us move on it. but i strongly disagree the order TULU,KONKANI,BEARY,KANNADA. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

1. Disagree - This is an entirely futile and useless exercise, retain the current order, Mangalore after all belongs to Karnataka. Kannada is the language spoken by all Mangloreans, whereas Tulu, Konkani and Beary are not spoken by all Mangloreans. Don't spoil this article with a language war, after having taken so much trouble to bring it to FA status.--PremKudva^Talk 05:19, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, i didn't start the language war .
I would like to congratulate Kensplanet,Premkudwa,Crazysoul for your tireless work in bringing this article to FA status. and also I kindly request to User:Kensplanet to close this discussion, because it leads to language war. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 11:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I know, but I thought I make my thoughts clear. Positions of the names in a particular order is not going to change the essence of the article in anyway. Best is to leave it the way it was.--PremKudva^Talk 11:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Mangaluru may not be the official name of the city

Mangaluru is not the official name of the city. If it is, prove it. Just because Kannada is the official language of Mangalore, so Mangaluru gets more importance over other names. For example, in the Mangalore City Corporation website, Mangaluru Mahanagarpalike is mentioned. So for other purposes. Can anyone prove it is the official name. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Kensplanet are you wanting to know if the official name is Mangaluru in Kannada or English? Because in Kannada it has been Mangaluru for the last several hundred years or more.--PremKudva^Talk 06:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

No not that way..For exampe the official name of India is Bharat. Check http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/fullact1.asp?tfnm=00%201

Similarly can you prove Mangaluru is the official name of Mangalore.

It is really childish to ask anyone to prove that mangalooru is the official name. I really doubt whether you have lived in Mangalore. Anyone would laugh at this question --Crazysoul (talk) 15:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Crazysoul technically we are stilled called Mangalore in English and Mangaluru in Kannada, even though the names of a dozen cities were proposed to be changed to their Kannada sounds it has not been carried out yet. Bangalore is now being called Bengaluru but it seems the official stuff that requires the name change fell somewhere when two state Govts fell. But Google Earth, Google Maps calls Mangalore as Mangaluru.--PremKudva^Talk 06:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Crazysoul, I have never ever lived in Mangalore...I am from Bombay. I am only of Mangalorean genealogy...But however from your posts that's for sure, you have still not been able to provide an online REF claiming Mangaluru is the official name. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Google maps and Google Earth are similar to Wikipedia. Anyone can edit it. Especially Wikimapia. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 08:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Dear Premkudva, I'm not claiming that Mangaluru is the official name in English. I mentioned that Mangaluru is the offcial name in Kannada.Is there any doubt in that? All land records,official documents, history refer to this city as Mangaluru(in kannada) and not by any other name. Its easy to give weblinks as reference for the cities whose names have been renamed recently. But Mangalore has been known by its name since centuries. And the debate is being carried out in a tangential way as if there is no connection between Mangalore & mangalooru. Dear kensplanet, What according to you is official name in Kannada? If u say Kudla i beg to differ. Except for oral conversations in Tulu, this word doesnt have a standing while conversing in other local languages as well. You have even downplayed that argument that Mangalore city corporation website shows mangalooru mahanagarapalike just bcoz kannada is official language... If Kudla was the official name, it cud have been named Kudla mahanagarapalike. Can u tell me any one official or commercial establishent which uses the word Kudla? Is it possible for you to give links to prove that bengaluru is the official name of the Bangalore in kannada (remember not english) or Mumbai is the official name in marathi (not english) or dilli is the official name in hindi. or Mysooru is the official name in kannada(not english). If you can provide them, we'll explore similar source for mangalooru as welll. --Crazysoul (talk) 14:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I'm trying to say. You cannot prove Mangaluru is the official name. It just gets more importance because Kannada is the official language. The order of names need not be according to official languages. The order of names is decided on cultural aspects. I have already given an example: Troy; it's in Turkey; still Greek and Latin have been given more importance. On some articles like Kashmir, it's on alphabetical order. Wikipedia doesn't suggest any order. I suggest the native speaker order. We'll see the poll consensus Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes I agree with Kensplanet. The order of names should be decided by no. of native speakers. Just because Mangaluru is used in official documents(that too only Kannada Documents)we cannot ignore Kudla. We have to take the sentiments of Tuluvas (majority ethnic group)into consideration. The word Mangaluru is attached with Mangalore only b'cos Kannada is the official language of the state. We should follow the example of Troy article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.43.62 (talk) 16:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

You are right. Someone agrees. May I suggest creation of an account so that you can vote and your posts may gain more value. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

But u r ignoring the fact that mangalooru is more popular than Kudla.. Is popularity an ignorable factor? And i do not understand how placing kudla in the begining would be an indicator of taking majority into consideration. You are unnecessarily creating a language war here.... It also seems that anonyous edits are your own..... If u read the belgaum article, belagavu is written first even though marathi is a majority there.. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

This is a silly allegation against me which I prefer to respond in a silly manner. The next post from me will be using my IP and I am going to type I AM KENSPLANET Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 06:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I AM KENSPLANET 122.170.19.57 (talk) 06:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Harvard reference

<ref name="mcc5">{{harvnb|Mangalore City Corporation|p=5|Ref=18}}</ref>

Someone has given the above harvnb reference in the Etymology section with three other occurances of this in the rest of the article. Exactly how are we supposed to check these references? The reference is clickable but gets you nowhere.--PremKudva^Talk 10:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Download http://www.mangalorecity.gov.in/forms/SWM%20Details%20for%20Website.doc and check Page 5..Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:09, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Isn't there anyway of indicating this in the reference? Without the article you mention above the reference is meaningless.--PremKudva^Talk 05:38, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

HARVNB is the standard across Wikipedia. In this case, there's no other way. There are 5 References to this document http://www.mangalorecity.gov.in/forms/SWM%20Details%20for%20Website.doc

• REF 9 (Mangalore City Corporation, p. 5)
• REF 11 (Mangalore City Corporation, p. 4)
• REF 17 (Mangalore City Corporation, p. 6)
• REF 107 (Mangalore City Corporation, p. 7)
• REF 157 (7Mangalore City Corporation, p. 10)

If we have the document in the Reference.......it should be

• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 5. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 4. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 6. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 7. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 10. Retrieved 2008-06-20.

Repeating the same URL, Title, Publisher etc......again and again for individual references looks silly. In this case only the Page No. is different. Rest all parameters are the same. That's the reason, we have followed HARVNB Reference system, where only the Page number differs. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 06:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Mangalorean in Beary

Does anyone know what is Mangalorean in Beary. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

The article says Maikala. Personally I do not know. But some Beary's whom I spoke to here mentioned that Maikala actually means village or town [possibly our village our town?!]. But is commonly refered to as Mangalore.--PremKudva^Talk 05:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Not Mangalore. Mangalorean. Like Mangalorean is known as Manglurvnavaru in Kannada. That way. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 06:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Name change Mangalooru withheld!

I removed the sentence in the article that said that However, this name change has not been implemented due to opposition from Mangaloreans across the world. The reference provided also doesn't indicate that the name change has been withheld due to this reason. The name change of Mangalore and also the other cities has not taken place due to the Karnataka Govt not following certain procedures. Later after the Kumaraswamy Govt fell, the state under Presidents rule has not followed up. In all probabilities names of all the cities mentioned by the Govt be changed after a new Govt is formed. Unless there is a change of priorities from the new Govt.--PremKudva^Talk 06:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Why names are necessary

Regarding the undo by Crazysoul

I am sure the article would like to achieve FA status. Anything which occurs in the Lead has to reappear in the prose according to the rule of thumb. That's why, these sentences

Konkanis use the variant Kodial. The Bearys call it Maikala. Kannadigas use the variant Mangaluru for the city. In addition, the city is also known as Mangalapuram in Malayalam. have been readded.

Its basically a FA criterion. The article's status will be challenged by reviwers if anything in the Lead is not covered up in the Prose. Hope this explains why the sentences have been readded.Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 13:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

My suggestion is that magaluru is not a variant. It is an official name in kannada. Others can be can be called as variants coz it doenst have any official status. And i dont think malayalam name is necessary. Then u need to add everything what tamilians, telugus, gujjus, or hindi people call it. --Crazysoul (talk) 03:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I have implemented your suggestions. If you check Mangaluru has just been called a name not a variant. Malayalam name has been removed.Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 07:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Red links

What's the purpose of adding red links when the corresponding articles are not existing? --Crazysoul (talk) 04:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

The article should be extremely comprehensive if it wants to attain FA status. That's why articles such as Treaty of Mangalore, Sultan Battery (Mangalore) and some crucial topics related to the city need to be created. You can help by adding more red links and creating articles.Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 07:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

But some of the items that have been red marked cannot be expanded to an artcile. e.g. DK telecom District, corporation bank park, etc --Crazysoul (talk) 09:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Mangalore

How about launching a Wikiproject Mangalore which is dedicated to the South Canara and Udupi districts or Tulu Nadu?KennethJohn^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 07:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

If sufficient number of editors are interested I don't see why not.--PremKudva^Talk 07:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Civic administration

I've seen several edits & reverts on the title of this section. It is not right to use the word government for the governing body of a city. The city is not run by the government, but a council. Almost all articles of various Indian cities use the title "Civic Administration" for this section. In India, the term "Government" can be used only for Delhi as it has its own legislative assembly. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Peer Review June 2008

Mangalore

Previous peer review

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for June 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because this article is already a GA. Suggestions to promote this article to FA status will be very much helpful.

Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 17:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: I think this is quite an interesting article and it seems to have a great deal of information in it. I think it needs some MOS clean up and a good copyedit to reach FA level. Here are some suggestions for improvement:

• A model article is often useful for ideas and examples to follow. There are many city FAs at Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Geography_and_places, including Ahmedabad, which may be useful as models.
• The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way, but Etymology and Climate do not seem to be in the lead, as two examples.
• I also think the lead could be four paragraphs - please see WP:LEAD
• Per WP:MOS#Images, images should be set at thumb so reader preferences for width takes over. Vertical images can be smaller with "upright"
• Some of the sources may not meet WP:RS - what makes www.inida9.com (Ref 19) a reliable source, for example?
• Refs are also not consistent - Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. {{cite web}} and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V
• Provide context for the reader - just in the lead I had to click on Western Ghats to understand what they were, but it were "Western Ghats mountains" or perhaps mountain range, that would be clearer. See WP:PCR
• Spell out numbers ten and less, so New Mangalore Port is India's 9th [ninth] largest cargo handling port[,] handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.[5] Also is there a way to avoid handling twice in the same sentence?
• Another awkward sentence - what does "by Mangalore standards" add? Does Mangalore have different standards for temperature and humidity compared to the rest of the world? The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards.[36]
• For help with a copy edit ask one of the volunteers at WP:PRV or one of the editors listed at WP:LOCE
• Please use my examples as just that - these are not an exhaustive list and if one example is given, please check to make sure there are not other occurrences of the same problem.

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments by Kensplanet

• A model article is often useful for ideas and examples to follow. There are many city FAs at Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Geography_and_places, including Ahmedabad, which may be useful as models.
  • We will try to emulate the style of all FA's as far as possible.
• The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way, but Etymology and Climate do not seem to be in the lead, as two examples.
  • We are working hard to modify the Lead. We are trying to include details from each and every section.
• I also think the lead could be four paragraphs - please see WP:LEAD
  • The Lead is now of 4 paragraphs as per WP:LEAD
• Per WP:MOS#Images, images should be set at thumb so reader preferences for width takes over. Vertical images can be smaller with "upright"
  •  Done. All Images set at thumb.
• Some of the sources may not meet WP:RS - what makes www.inida9.com (Ref 19) a reliable source, for example?
  • (Ref 19) removed since it fails to meet WP:RS. Additionally, all such refs which fail to meet WP:RS and WP:V removed
• Refs are also not consistent - Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. {{cite web}} and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V
  • We are working to make Refs consistent. It may take some time.
• Provide context for the reader - just in the lead I had to click on Western Ghats to understand what they were, but it were "Western Ghats mountains" or perhaps mountain range, that would be clearer. See WP:PCR
  • We are working to provide context to each and every such term which may be unknown to many people. It may take some time.
• Spell out numbers ten and less, so New Mangalore Port is India's 9th [ninth] largest cargo handling port[,] handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.[5] Also is there a way to avoid handling twice in the same sentence?
  •  Done
    Old Sentence: New Mangalore Port is India's 9th largest cargo handling port, handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.
    New Sentence: New Mangalore Port is India's ninth largest cargo handling port. It handles 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.
• Another awkward sentence - what does "by Mangalore standards" add? Does Mangalore have different standards for temperature and humidity compared to the rest of the world? The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards.[36]
  • "by Mangalore standards" removed.
    Old Sentence: The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards.
    New Sentence: The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest.
• For help with a copy edit ask one of the volunteers at WP:PRV or one of the editors listed at WP:LOCE
  • Surely, we will contact them once the article is ready for a FAC. Till then, we'll try to improve the article in our own ways.
• Please use my examples as just that - these are not an exhaustive list and if one example is given, please check to make sure there are not other occurrences of the same problem.
  • We'll try to resolve all such issues.
• Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at {{Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog}} (which is how I found this article).
  • In response to your peer review of our article, I have peer-reviewed an article named Hindu-German Conspiracy whose review can be found here Wikipedia:Peer review/Hindu-German Conspiracy/archive2

Thankyou for the review, Kensplanet (talk) 17:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

• You are very welcome - thanks for your review too! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:19, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Is Kannada a local language of Mangalore?

An Annonymous user by the IP 122.167.59.203 claims that Kannada is not a local language of Mangalore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mangalore&diff=221240653&oldid=221172765

Please explain your edits 122.167.59.203--->>>Kensplanet (talk) 07:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Wrong. It is very much a language of Mangalore. Heck our district is called Dakshina Kannada. Mr Anon should change that too then.--PremKudva^Talk 11:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I too agree with premkudva. Except for the migrants, there is not a single localite who doesnt know Kannada. --Crazysoul (talk) 15:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

References

There are many unreliable sites which may fail to meet WP:RS and WP:V. I am removing all of them. So please do not bother about my edits regarding references. Regards, Kensplanet (talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Lead

It has been brought to notice in the peer Review that the Lead is not concise enough. It fails to include some data from each and every section. If you think you can put some good information in the Lead, then please do so. Regards, Kensplanet (talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Mangalooru Mallige

Can anyone put some details of Mangalore's jasmine popularly known as Mangalooru Mallige? --Crazysoul (talk) 17:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

What is Mangalooru Mallige?In which section does this go.Kensplanet (talk) 18:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Mangalorru is a variety of jasmine flower which is aavailable only in Mangalore. They are thinner in structure and more fragrant compared to Mysore jasmine.It can be put either under economy or geography--Crazysoul (talk) 09:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article Status!!!

Well, I think this Article is ready for a FAC. This Article incorporates enough data on the city. If the editors have any suggestions, any more data then now is the time to put it. Please let me know what you all think?Kensplanet (talk) 12:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Article certainly looks ready for FAC. Time to give it a try, and see what the reviewers say. We can work on the issues, if any, found during the review. - KNM ^Talk 20:04, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I have contacted some copyeditors. They are currently working on the article. We can nominate once their work is over. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions}, 04:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

You are right. Why not give it a try. We can work on the issues found during the review. I have nominated the article at FAC at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates#Mangalore, Kensplanet (talk) 06:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Prose cleanup I

I am trying to clean up the prose but have a few questions about some content that I am not able to understand. I will list my questions below, to hopefully get a better sense of what the intention of the sentence is. Thanks AreJay (talk) 01:20, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• In Geography, it says "The topography of the city ranges from plain to undulating, with four hilly regions natural valleys.." is something missing here? four hilly regions <filler text> natural valleys. I can't quite understand the sentence.

New sentence :The topography of the city ranges from plain to undulating, with several hills, valleys and flat areas within the city.--PremKudva^Talk 07:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• The maximum average humidity recorded should be as of a very specific date, not a general month.

Well, Average clearly contradicts mention of a vey specific date. During the past 30-40 years, humidity data was recorded for all the months. And then Average was taken for all the months. It was then observed that The maximum average humidity recorded was 93% in the month of July and average minimum humidity recorded was 56% in the month of January. How does specific fit here. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 08:52, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Comments AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• In the Economy section, "It handles 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts."....please clarify what "it" is.

It basically means India. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 08:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "Mangalore roof tiles are well-known throughout India and still define the city's skyline" How does this relate to "Economy"?

Done: Removed the sentence. It appears in the lead. More than enough. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 09:16, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "Imports include tropical timber from South-East Asia for furniture making." If the word "include" is being used, more than one example is needed. Just "furniture making" won't suffice.

New sentence :Imports include tropical timber from South-East Asia for the manufacture of furniture and as raw material for the housing industry.--PremKudva^Talk 06:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Comments AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Oops!:-) Setting that right.--PremKudva^Talk 04:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Added other items of import.--PremKudva^Talk 04:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• "The city is also one of the chief entry points for wood to South India" This sentence needs clarification. Entry points as in import perhaps?

New sentence :The city along with Tuticorin is also one of two points for import of wood to South India.--PremKudva^Talk 06:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "This will be the first Petroleum, Chemicals, Petrochemicals Investment Region (PCPIR) of the country, with similar PCPIR's existing at Nayachar in West Bengal, Panipat in Haryana and Achutapuram in Andhra Pradesh." This sentence contradicts itself.

Deleted sentence since cited source and further search show it contradicts as mentioned.--PremKudva^Talk 07:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "According to an International edition of India Today (28 November – 4 December 2006), Mangalore is the fastest growing non metro in South India followed by Kochi." Why is Kochi's mention important if we're trying to say Mangalore is the fastest growing non-metro. Kochi shouldn't be mentioned unless we're trying to say that Mangalore is the second-fastest growing non-metro in S. India, after Kochi.

Deleted.--PremKudva^Talk 07:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I have restored the sentence and modified it to exclude Kochi. There's no need to remove the sentence since it is backed by a reputed periodical. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 13:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• I think the bit about strategic oil reserves and the details provided about it are not in line with WP:SUMMARY.

Deleted extra information.--PremKudva^Talk 07:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• "Growing numbers of slums have been a cause of concern in Mangalore." Concern to whom?

Deleted sentence, sentence that follows this is adequate enough.--PremKudva^Talk 07:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• Two intro sentences in "Culture" about the museum and hi-tech library don't align well with each other and give the para a choppy feel. I would either add a small phrase introducing the discussion of the museum and library, and tie the two together in the same sentence, or just not include them, if they are going to remain two disparate thoughts. Same issue with Yakshagana.

Template:Comments AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Prose cleanup II

Thanks AreJay I am going through these points [see Prose cleanup I] as well as some of the other editors here.--PremKudva^Talk 06:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Premkudva. I'll go ahead and continue to add some points below that I haven't been able to address myself (for lack of content knowledge or otherwise).

• "Popular festivals in the city include Dussera, Diwali, Christmas, Maha Shivratri, Easter, Navratri, Good Friday, Eid, Moharram, and Mahavir Jayanti" - list is too long, as is usually the case with India articles. This should be shortened to 3-4 festivals, taking into account the diverse religions of Mangalore.

Corrected--PremKudva^Talk 04:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• Correct me if I'm wrong, but happalas and sandiges (at least as used in Kannada) are not pickles as indicated in the "Culture" section. If I had to define them, I would call them fried flatbreds or fried wafers.

Happala is no pickle as you mention, I do not know what a sandige is?--PremKudva^Talk 04:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• There should be some more info on mainstream sports If I remember correctly, isn't Prakash Padukone from the Konkani community...not sure if he is Mangalorean though. What about Mangalore's contributions to state and national hockey, cricket, soccer and other sports? Wasn't Ravi Shastri born and/or brought up in Mangalore?

Mr Padukone was born in Bangalore and Ravi Shastri in Bombay as per wiki. All Mangloreans went to banking rather than sports it looks like;-)--PremKudva^Talk 04:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• Education and sports are unrelated topics. Sports should be moved to the culture section, or be an independent section, if there's enough content

Moving Sports to Culture is not a good idea, since the Culture section already has enough details and appending sports there would make the section unnecessarily lenghty. We'll try to find more data. Just give us 2-3 days. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 13:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• "These institutions attract students from all over the country due to the quality of their programs"....WP:PEACOCK? Citation needed, if available.

Done: Removed this sentence. Finding citations for such sentences is next to impossible. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 15:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• "In addition, the city has also contributed towards the Konkani Film Industry." Contributed how?
• In "Civic Administration", the mayor of Mangalore should be mentioned.

Done
Removed Deputy Mayor from Infobox as he/she is mentioned in Civic Administration section.
Added a Table, mentioning Mayor and Deputy Mayor. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 14:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• "The Telecom Density in the city is 8.74 per 100 population" The term "telecom density" should be defined so that it is understandable to the average reader. Thanks AreJay (talk) 21:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, Telephone density and Telecom density mean the same. Anyway, for the average reader, Telecom density has been replaced by telephone density. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 15:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! The article is looking much better now. I still have some concerns, but the prose issue has all but gone for me. I will update the FAC with the improvements in prose, and add my additional concerns there. Let me know if you have any questions...great job addressing FAC concerns so far. Thanks AreJay (talk) 21:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Image of Mangalore country side

I have added a image in .../wiki/Mangalore#Geography_and_climate section please review it. NAvin Shetty Brahmavar 17:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Was this image taken within Mangalore, ie at Kadri, near Kulshekar, or some of the areas where paddy fields are still cultivated? Do inform the place name here.--PremKudva^Talk 06:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

He had mentioned Mangalore District. It can also mean South Canara district. That has to be cleared. If the paddy fields belong to SC district, then the image has to be removed from this article. We have to stick to Mangalore city only. Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 07:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

It was captured near Puttur (South Canara Dist). - NAvin Shetty Brahmavar 14:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Navin Shetty Brahmavar (talk • contribs)

We are removing this image from the Mangalore article, please place it in the Puttur article instead.--PremKudva^Talk 05:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Image of NITK

I think NITK image would be a more suitable candidate for the Education section. Even the name is clearly visible in front. Whereas the KPT image doesn't even have a signboard. Moreover Infosys is prominently visible in the background. One might have to mark & show which one is KPT for the newbies. I suggest replacing KPT image with NITK image. --Crazysoul (talk) 12:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

O Sorry, actually I was about to replace the Image the same day when you informed me. I was just a bit lazy to dig in the history. Anyway I have reinstalled it. Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 14:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Featured article candidate

Mangalore is currently a FAC. (Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mangalore). Please help the article to promote it to FA status. Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 15:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I noticed the efforts here and thought a map might be a useful addition. I have attempted a rough version here and perhaps it can be improved by those with better knowledge or sources. Image:Mangalore.svg, this is made on the basis of several sources on the net and I believe my creation should qualify for release under public domain. Shyamal (talk) 16:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations! Mangalore is now a featured article:-)--PremKudva^Talk 11:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Congrats. Everyone. Kensplanet (talk) 09:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Congrats everyone.. especially kensplanet for all the efforts that he had putforth --Crazysoul (talk) 18:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Order of names

Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada is the right order. Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary is not the right order. It should be strictly according to the no of native speakers of a language. As far as official languages go, all official things have to be mentioned in the Infobox. If you check, the official language has been mentioned Kannada in the Infobox.

For the Rest of the article (including the first line), we have to follow the native speakers order. No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.

Best example is the Troy article. Although Troy is officially in Turkey and the official language of Troy is Turkish, but people belonging to the Greek ethnic group are the largest and hence Greek has been mentioned first. There are many such articles. The native speaker order is the right order Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 08:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

please no WP:OR and WP:OWN
In Wikipedia articles, scripts should in alphabetical order, not based on total no of speakers. beary should not be used, because they are very less in number.
for example see Kashmir, there are six scripts in total, all of them are in alphabetical order and not based on total number of speakers, if you have any problem call an admin whom you like, let this issue solved by an admin.
this article is related to india, show Indian cities as an examples not foreign city. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

The Naming conventions for all cities are the same - Indian or any foreign city. Please give me the statistics of Mangalore. Muslims constitute around 15% of the city. Please not the statistics of South Canara. Most of them are Bearis. Around 14% maybe. You call 14% less. Then, Beary should be first. Mentioning Kannada first looks af if Most Mangaloreans are Kannadigas, then Tuluvas etc......which is absolutely incorrect and totally unencyclopedic. As far as official languages go, it has been mentioned in the Infobox. Only the Infobox is supposed to have all official area stats, STD codes, population etc...Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Please don't throw back the question.
can you show me the statistics of tulu, konkani, kannada, beary speakers with WP:RS (not in %, display in numbers) . Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

and also note that, it is possible to remove konkani translaion, because they are migrates not natives. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Please tell me how do you define natives. Mangalorean Catholics and other GSB's have been here since 1500's. They have built churches and other significant institutions in the city. No explanation needed for that. 500 years - more than enough to be called locals. No need to mention only Kannadigas are considered migrants today. Though I do not consider myself as a Mangalorean, but only a Bombayite, there's no denying that I have Mangalorean Catholic descent and I am a Mangalorean through my descent Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

No need to mention only Kannadigas are considered migrants today
;Please correct your sentence, Kannadigas are not migrants they are part of Mangalore(Karnataka). They are staying in mangalore from the day of city born.
They have built churches and other significant institutions in the city
;Yes,they built churches and institutions for missionary activities. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

No need to correct. It's absolutely right. Please cite your claims. The Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Diocese of Mangalore condemns forcible conversions in its strongest possible extent. Anyway, Did you know the people who you claim are indulging in forcible conversions are Mangalorean Protestants not Mangalorean Catholics (hope you know the difference). These Mangalorean Protestants are themselves Kannadigas and speak Kannada. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 05:09, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

No need to correct. It's absolutely right.
What nonsense is this?? your assumptions and baseless statements don't work here. Mr.Kensplanet, do have any proof to say Kannadigas are migrants? Talk pages are highly visible content, if some mangaloorean see your baseless comment, he will start laughing at you. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 00:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

This is sounding like a forum now. I guarantee you my freind, no one will laugh at me Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, Kannadigas migrated from where??? Tamilnadu? andhra? or maharashtra? ANSWER ME. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I refuse to entertain this forumish discussion anymore. Because along with you, I'll be blocked too..Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I'm saying Talk pages are highly visible content. So stop this discussion which takes the Poll nowhere. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Except for the migrants, there is no single localite who doesn't know Kannada.
as above statement mentioned it is very clear that kannada speakers are more. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

We refer to only native tongues. That way English rules for all purposes much above Kannada. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Kensplanet said No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.
adding, neither you nor me owning this article. PS:For more than 2 years Kannada script is placed before Tulu script, now how can User:Kensplanet change the order without gaining consensus? is he owning this article? Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on consensus. There is nothing to comment in Order of names because in some articles scripts are arranged in alphabetical order and in some other articles first preference is given to native scripts as mention by User:Kensplanet. so i decided to start a poll on this issue, lets see what other wikiusers agrees. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

There's something called as WP:BOLD.

That's for sure. You do not know anything about Mangalore. I'll answer all your posts. May we have some Mangaloreans like User:Crazysoul, User:Premkudva commenting Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Don't assume things over here. I know Mangalore better than you, i am a resident of Mangalore, come to Kankanadi i will show you whom am i. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but by your silly posts, it doesn't look like you know about Mangalore and it's Culture more than me. No need to meet people like you. I have better thngs to do and better people to meet. Anyway, are you the Mayor of Mangalore. :) Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 05:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but by your silly posts
case of WP:NPA. silly???? who is doing silly here, me?? hello Mr.Kensplanet this silly thread is started by you not me.
it doesn't look like you know about Mangalore and it's Culture more than me
you said that Kannadigas are migrants, its enough to show you don't know nothing about mangalore. Just because you've written this FA article, it doesn't mean that you know everything about mangalore. you've collected information from many sources and wrote this article. lol, anyone can do this.
No need to meet people like you. I have better thngs to do and better people to meet.
Sorry, even I'm not interested in meeting you, i don't like the people who show hatred behaviour towards our community.
are you the Mayor of Mangalore
silly question by FA author. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I didn't call you silly. I called your posts silly. Please do not threaten me with WP:NPA. Watch it properly. No admin can block me for this. When did I say, I have written this FA. Please tell me and please do not assume. Many editor's contributions are involved here. Please check History. You are right I've collected information from many sources and wrote this article. But according to your outward bearing, it seems you are trying to say that Feauturing articles is a very easy task. No chum, it's not so easy. We had to break our bones for this. We had submitted the article at numerous Peer reviews, FAC's. We had requested many copyeditors for this. Not so easy. You try featuring an article yourself. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Poll: Regarding scripts

A poll to determine the opinions. all are welcome, anyone can vote here by adding SUPPORT in below options (NOTE: Supports by IP's/socks/newly registered accounts are not considered).

Option 1

No change in current order - Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary

1. Support - Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
2. Support - --PremKudva^Talk 04:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
3. Support - User:Crazysoul

Option 2

Change the order to - Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada as per User:Kensplanet comments

1. Strongest Possible Support: I think the Order should be Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 15:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
2. Strongest Possible Support: Option 2. That is the way it should be. Tulu,Konkani,Beary,Kannada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pdheeru (talk • contribs) 17:04, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
3. Strongest Possible Support: The order should be Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada.Sanfy^Talk

Section break

Kenplsnet, I have right to end this poll because this poll is started by me. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

This is violation of WP:OWN. After you submit your content on Wikipedia, it is officially accepted in the Public domain. While editing any page, read a bit below

If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it.

You have no right over the contents and the poll now. Polls will be closed later by a common understanding. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

My degree exams will starts from 18th of this month, my mother wont allow me to use internet from tomorrow, so i will not able to login for next couple of days. now tell me who will decide the result of this poll? Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Your exam excuses don't give you any authority over the poll. Why don't you contact an admin. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know any admin here. bye,happy editing Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Kensplanet, if you wish can you please decide the result of this poll Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The Order will be changed only after a consensus has been established. I promise you no one will change the order if it has not been established. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Order of names II

Even though i'm a tuluva, i feel that official name of a city should be given the first place (i.e. Mangalore in English & Mangalooru in kannada). All other names are all unofficial & just orally used. There's no logic that the no. of native speakers should be considered for sorting the names. Do we really have any statistics to prove that the number of speakers are in the same order? As some one rightly pointed out, we are not sure whether bearys outnumber konkanis or vice versa. And what about the malayalis who are also significant in number. Whatever website u may refer to, they only provide estimated figures & not actual. Somebody has also pointed out above that every mangalorean knows kannada, but same cannot be told for other languages. --Crazysoul (talk) 16:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Are U sure Mangalooru is the official name. Can U support it with a REF. It's not always necessary to give the official langauge primary status everywhere. Here's it's not the question of official languges. It's the question of order of local names of the city. Forget Konkani n Beary for a minute. That will be sorted later. But we all know that Tuluvas are in majority. Do you deny this. Shouldn't it come first then. There's no logic that the no. of native speakers should be considered for sorting the names. But mentioning Kannada, Tulu, KOnkani, Beary gives the impression that Kannadigas are in Majority, then Tuluvas, etc...This is wrong. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:28, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

But mentioning Kannada, Tulu, KOnkani, Beary gives the impression that Kannadigas are in Majority, then Tuluvas, etc...This is wrong.
Then why User:Kensplanet didn't change the order year back ?. surprisingly he only noticed after this change.

Please read the policy mentioned in Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic). as per wikipolicy 'Mangaluru' should be mentioned first not Kudla, because The name ‘Mangalore’ is the anglicized version of kannada word ‘Mangaluru’ not tulu word 'Kudla'. hence Mangaluru should be placed first. There is no rule in Wikipedia that scripts should be sorted according to no. of speakers. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

now, Follow the wikipolicy and close this discussion. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 03:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Please tell me which section is this in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic). We do not care from where it is derived. What logic is this? Each and every word in this world is derived from some or the other word. Even the English language which you speak is derived from Greek and Latin. Most of the Indian languages are derived from Sanskrit. There is no rule in Wikipedia that scripts should be sorted according to no. of speakers, but it is always recommended to follow a order. Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary has no order. Better to mention it as Kannada, Beary, Konkani, Tulu in the descending order. Atleast it has an order. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 04:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

if you can able to see through your own eyes ,please read Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic)#Policy. The word 'Mangalore' is anglicized name of Kannada word 'Mangaluru', not tulu word 'Kudla'. moreover, in city Mangalore, common usage word is MANGALURU not KUDLA. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• Kannadiga Warrior, May I first request you to provide an online reliable source which mentions that Mangaluru is the official name of the city. It should specifically mention Mangaluru is the official name of the city. Please no assumptions like Because this is this, so that is that Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 06:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

first you provide the source which mentions tulu speakers are more in number. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

This clearly proves Mangaluru may not be the official name of the city. If yes prove it. You are just wandering around the mulberry bush by throeing questions at me. Can't you even prove it now Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Dear Kensplanet, It can be called height of ignoroance questioning the authenticity of the name Mangalooru in Kannada. All signboards, nameplates, shops, banks, postal dept, corporation, etc, use Mangalooru & not Kudla/Kodial/Maikala. I dont understand why you are so much against the word mangalooru which is derived from mangaladevi temple which is very much in the same city. --Crazysoul (talk) 08:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

It not 'for or against' any name, we are discussing the order in which it has to be written. It should be according to the no. of native speakers. kannada,Tulu,Konkani,Beary does not have any logic. Neither in ascending order or descending order. More over Kannada has been mentioned as official language in the infobox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.93.135 (talk) 16:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Crazysoul, my freind who's questioning the authenticity of the name Mangalooru in Kannada. We respect the name from the bottom of the heart since it is an ancestral and a local name of Mangalore. No one is against Mangalooru. No one wants to remove it. It's just that we would like some sort of order.

• Mangalore (pronounced /ˈmæŋgəlɔr/; Kannada: ಮಂಗಳೂರು, Mangalūru; Tulu: Kudla, ಕುಡ್ಲ; Konkani: Kodial, ಕೊಡಿಯಾಲ್; Beary: Maikala, ಮೈಕಾಲ)
  • For a foreign reader, this doesn't indicate that Kannada is the official language of Mangalore and Mangaluru is the official name. If you want, we can mention it in the Lead itself that Mangaluru is the official name and Kannada is the official language. Only when the reader reads the Infobox, shall he know Kannada is the official language. It would just mean that People belonging to the Kannada ethnic group are the largest. If you want, we can follow the alphabetical order Beary, Kannada, Konkani, Tulu as suggested by Kannadiga Warrior or the Native speaker order. But surely Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary has no order at all.Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 16:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The debate is not about official language. It is about the official name. Why do u want to hide the official name at last? It should come first. And who told that the names should be in the decreasing order of native speakers & not the name popularity or usage? Whether you like to hear it or not, you can't deny the fact that Mangalooru is a popular name 7 extensively used. Even buses plying in this area bear the name mangalooru. It doesnt imply that other languages are minorities. If you are so much keen on indicating the no. of speakers, u may put it at the demography section. Lets not be so jingoistic about unofficial names sidelining the original name. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Can you prove Mangaluru is the official name? Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:33, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

By far the most extensively used name is Kudla, No doubt. all buses mention mangaluru on the boards is only because they are using the official language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.98.28.90 (talk) 17:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Mr IP, don't make your own assumptions here, a simple WHOIS test shows you are from saudi. how can you say KUDLA is more common?. the fact is MANGALURU is the most common usage word. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes ur right, I am currently in Saudi, and that does not stop me from making a comment here. Does it? since Tulu is mostly spoken in Mangalore,Kudla is naturally the most used word. mangaluru may be used only in documents that too Kannada documents. Kannada is used in this part only cos its the official lang of Karnataka. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.60.228 (talk) 16:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps our dear Kannada freind doesn't know, there's a huge Mangalorean diaspora scattered across the gulf. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

New Proposal of changing order

TULU, KANNADA, KONKANI, BEARY
If you all agree with my new order, let us move on it. but i strongly disagree the order TULU,KONKANI,BEARY,KANNADA. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

1. Disagree - This is an entirely futile and useless exercise, retain the current order, Mangalore after all belongs to Karnataka. Kannada is the language spoken by all Mangloreans, whereas Tulu, Konkani and Beary are not spoken by all Mangloreans. Don't spoil this article with a language war, after having taken so much trouble to bring it to FA status.--PremKudva^Talk 05:19, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, i didn't start the language war .
I would like to congratulate Kensplanet,Premkudwa,Crazysoul for your tireless work in bringing this article to FA status. and also I kindly request to User:Kensplanet to close this discussion, because it leads to language war. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 11:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I know, but I thought I make my thoughts clear. Positions of the names in a particular order is not going to change the essence of the article in anyway. Best is to leave it the way it was.--PremKudva^Talk 11:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Mangaluru may not be the official name of the city

Mangaluru is not the official name of the city. If it is, prove it. Just because Kannada is the official language of Mangalore, so Mangaluru gets more importance over other names. For example, in the Mangalore City Corporation website, Mangaluru Mahanagarpalike is mentioned. So for other purposes. Can anyone prove it is the official name. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 12:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Kensplanet are you wanting to know if the official name is Mangaluru in Kannada or English? Because in Kannada it has been Mangaluru for the last several hundred years or more.--PremKudva^Talk 06:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

No not that way..For exampe the official name of India is Bharat. Check http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/fullact1.asp?tfnm=00%201

Similarly can you prove Mangaluru is the official name of Mangalore.

It is really childish to ask anyone to prove that mangalooru is the official name. I really doubt whether you have lived in Mangalore. Anyone would laugh at this question --Crazysoul (talk) 15:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Crazysoul technically we are stilled called Mangalore in English and Mangaluru in Kannada, even though the names of a dozen cities were proposed to be changed to their Kannada sounds it has not been carried out yet. Bangalore is now being called Bengaluru but it seems the official stuff that requires the name change fell somewhere when two state Govts fell. But Google Earth, Google Maps calls Mangalore as Mangaluru.--PremKudva^Talk 06:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Crazysoul, I have never ever lived in Mangalore...I am from Bombay. I am only of Mangalorean genealogy...But however from your posts that's for sure, you have still not been able to provide an online REF claiming Mangaluru is the official name. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Google maps and Google Earth are similar to Wikipedia. Anyone can edit it. Especially Wikimapia. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 08:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Dear Premkudva, I'm not claiming that Mangaluru is the official name in English. I mentioned that Mangaluru is the offcial name in Kannada.Is there any doubt in that? All land records,official documents, history refer to this city as Mangaluru(in kannada) and not by any other name. Its easy to give weblinks as reference for the cities whose names have been renamed recently. But Mangalore has been known by its name since centuries. And the debate is being carried out in a tangential way as if there is no connection between Mangalore & mangalooru. Dear kensplanet, What according to you is official name in Kannada? If u say Kudla i beg to differ. Except for oral conversations in Tulu, this word doesnt have a standing while conversing in other local languages as well. You have even downplayed that argument that Mangalore city corporation website shows mangalooru mahanagarapalike just bcoz kannada is official language... If Kudla was the official name, it cud have been named Kudla mahanagarapalike. Can u tell me any one official or commercial establishent which uses the word Kudla? Is it possible for you to give links to prove that bengaluru is the official name of the Bangalore in kannada (remember not english) or Mumbai is the official name in marathi (not english) or dilli is the official name in hindi. or Mysooru is the official name in kannada(not english). If you can provide them, we'll explore similar source for mangalooru as welll. --Crazysoul (talk) 14:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I'm trying to say. You cannot prove Mangaluru is the official name. It just gets more importance because Kannada is the official language. The order of names need not be according to official languages. The order of names is decided on cultural aspects. I have already given an example: Troy; it's in Turkey; still Greek and Latin have been given more importance. On some articles like Kashmir, it's on alphabetical order. Wikipedia doesn't suggest any order. I suggest the native speaker order. We'll see the poll consensus Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes I agree with Kensplanet. The order of names should be decided by no. of native speakers. Just because Mangaluru is used in official documents(that too only Kannada Documents)we cannot ignore Kudla. We have to take the sentiments of Tuluvas (majority ethnic group)into consideration. The word Mangaluru is attached with Mangalore only b'cos Kannada is the official language of the state. We should follow the example of Troy article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.43.62 (talk) 16:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

You are right. Someone agrees. May I suggest creation of an account so that you can vote and your posts may gain more value. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 17:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

But u r ignoring the fact that mangalooru is more popular than Kudla.. Is popularity an ignorable factor? And i do not understand how placing kudla in the begining would be an indicator of taking majority into consideration. You are unnecessarily creating a language war here.... It also seems that anonyous edits are your own..... If u read the belgaum article, belagavu is written first even though marathi is a majority there.. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

This is a silly allegation against me which I prefer to respond in a silly manner. The next post from me will be using my IP and I am going to type I AM KENSPLANET Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 06:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I AM KENSPLANET 122.170.19.57 (talk) 06:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Harvard reference

<ref name="mcc5">{{harvnb|Mangalore City Corporation|p=5|Ref=18}}</ref>

Someone has given the above harvnb reference in the Etymology section with three other occurances of this in the rest of the article. Exactly how are we supposed to check these references? The reference is clickable but gets you nowhere.--PremKudva^Talk 10:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Download http://www.mangalorecity.gov.in/forms/SWM%20Details%20for%20Website.doc and check Page 5..Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:09, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Isn't there anyway of indicating this in the reference? Without the article you mention above the reference is meaningless.--PremKudva^Talk 05:38, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

HARVNB is the standard across Wikipedia. In this case, there's no other way. There are 5 References to this document http://www.mangalorecity.gov.in/forms/SWM%20Details%20for%20Website.doc

• REF 9 (Mangalore City Corporation, p. 5)
• REF 11 (Mangalore City Corporation, p. 4)
• REF 17 (Mangalore City Corporation, p. 6)
• REF 107 (Mangalore City Corporation, p. 7)
• REF 157 (7Mangalore City Corporation, p. 10)

If we have the document in the Reference.......it should be

• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 5. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 4. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 6. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 7. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
• Mangalore City Corporation. Integrated Solid Waste Management Operation & Maintenance report (DOC, 964 KB). p. 10. Retrieved 2008-06-20.

Repeating the same URL, Title, Publisher etc......again and again for individual references looks silly. In this case only the Page No. is different. Rest all parameters are the same. That's the reason, we have followed HARVNB Reference system, where only the Page number differs. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 06:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Mangalorean in Beary

Does anyone know what is Mangalorean in Beary. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 11:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

The article says Maikala. Personally I do not know. But some Beary's whom I spoke to here mentioned that Maikala actually means village or town [possibly our village our town?!]. But is commonly refered to as Mangalore.--PremKudva^Talk 05:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Not Mangalore. Mangalorean. Like Mangalorean is known as Manglurvnavaru in Kannada. That way. Kensplanet^Talk_{Contributions} 06:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)