Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council

Tagging multiple wikiprojects in the same "family"

I have a dispute with another user who is dual=tagging articles tagged by WikiProject equine with WikiProject Mammals as well. I have always understood that rarely is there a need to double-tag "parent" and "child" wikiprojects. The other user feels differently. See conversation here. If I'm wrong on this, I'll back off, but my understanding is that double-tagging is a colossal waste of time. Please advise. Montanabw^(talk) 23:47, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

It is something that some people feel strongly about on both sides of the issue. But yes generally only the more specific WikiProject really needs to be tagged assuming that the larger scoped ones is really large. WP:SPORTS for example only gets tagged on articles where there aren't more specific sports projects. However, I would never edit war over it. Some "Families" just create a single banner with parameters in them indicating they are also part of the more specific group. -DJSasso (talk) 00:23, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Definitely not worth an edit war although it might be useful to see if the Mammals project banner could incorporate the others. John Carter (talk) 01:35, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

There are lots and lots of mammal projects, cats, dogs, horses... thousands and thousands of articles (3000 in WPEQ alone). Thanks for your answer. Helpful info Montanabw^(talk) 21:45, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

@Montanabw: I may regret saying this but I have some experience working on project banners. Give me a listing of projects specifically dealing exclusively with mammals and I'll see what I can do. John Carter (talk) 22:45, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

@John Carter:: Actually, I personally oppose the single banner concept (I don't care for it at WP United States) because I think it complicates project tagging, particularly for people (like me) who are on the short bus when it comes to template syntax (I can do it now, but I've been on wiki 8 years). But is there a way that the WPEQ template could automatically contain an internal link to wikiproject mammals so the cleanup tags for equine articles (or cats, or dogs, or whatever) could appear on their listings as well? I think that was what Plantdrew wants & why he is tagging everything. Montanabw^(talk) 18:59, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

It is 100% up to the members of the project. If WikiProject Mammals wants to have it tagged, then it gets tagged. If they don't, then it doesn't. Whether any other project chooses to tag the page, or even whether any other project exists, is irrelevant. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide#Article tagging for a fuller explanation. This is also addressed briefly in the /FAQ at the top of this page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Actually no; there is a place for overall guidelines as to how projects work in general; And, anyway, I have also posted at WP:Mammals, though it seems a rather inactive project at the moment. Montanabw^(talk) 20:25, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Actually, Montanabw, what I'm telling you is that there already is an official {{guideline}} that addresses this question, and that official guideline directly says that it's up to each WikiProject to decide what they're going to tag. If you want to double-check that the guideline really does say this, then do please click the link I gave you. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Same guideline also says over tagging is disruptive, having every article in WP:Chicago also tagged with WP:Illinois and WP:USA is over tagging, since everything in Chicago would also belong in Illinois and in USA...so there is no need for 3 tags, just the most specific one. I have to say I like the idea of coding the lower templates to automatically include all their articles in the higher project thus achieving the same affect of having all 3 tags, without the over tagging on the talk page. -DJSasso (talk) 13:34, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

True, and it gives you a pretty clear idea of what over-tagging means: "WikiProject banners should not be used to duplicate the category system or portals. If an article is only tangentially related to the scope of another WikiProject, then please do not place that project's banner on the article." The warnings against over-tagging are focused on telling non-members not to tag their favorite articles with every possible banner. This does not override the right of any WikiProject to choose to tag and support an article. Leonardo da Vinci is currently tagged by 15 projects, and there's nothing wrong with that—or with adding a 16th project, if yet another group of editors chooses to support that article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:05, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

If the projects all have very different scopes (ie WP:Middle Ages and WP:Italy). However, in the cases where one projects entire scope is encased in another projects scope, then yes it is most definitely an issue and has caused all kinds of problems in the past. -DJSasso (talk) 14:50, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

It's not an issue once people in "Project A" quit believing that they "own" the articles that they've tagged and thus can force "Project B" to not support the article. There have been a few disputes over the years, but I've yet to see one that didn't involve inappropriate attitudes of ownership. It often works quite well: There is little or nothing in WPPHARM that doesn't also belong WPCHEM, and there are zero resulting disputes. There is little or nothing in WikiProject History of science that isn't within the scope of WPHIST, and there are zero resulting disputes. Everything tagged by WikiProject First aid falls within the scope of a single task force for WPMED, and there are zero resulting disputes. There are dozens of projects whose scope could be entirely subsumed under WikiProject Music, and yet there are zero resulting disputes. Some of these solve it by tagging everything twice, and some of these solve it by tagging everything once, but it is usually solved. The only ongoing problems are from people who think that their project somehow "trumps" the other, or who worry that their small project is being "overwhelmed" by the other.

Tagging is a method for groups of people to keep track of articles that they want to keep track of. It is not a content categorization system, and it should not be abused as a method for telling other people that "your" group of volunteers isn't allowed to track it because it's "mine". To speak bluntly, unless you (or I) are actually one of the volunteers in the project that's tagging the page, then what that group of volunteers tags to create their "collective watchlist" is exactly as much of your business as is the contents of those volunteers' individual watchlists (i.e., "none"). WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Have asked at Template talk:WPBannerMeta#Question. John Carter (talk) 20:48, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Looks like they have an answer there? Is this what I think it is - a way to add a hidden parameter to the WPEQ template? Montanabw^(talk) 22:47, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

• When WP US came about, I questioned if automatically parenting to other projects would be a better solution. Basically what I wanted was the ability for a project, say WP Nevada to be automatically included in WP US without having to include the banner directly on the talk page. So in this discussion if this had been implemented, the template for WP equine could be modified and the projects articles would be included in WP mammal, or if appropriate in multiple parents. Another possible example if it made sense, Wikipedia:WikiProject Native languages of California could be coded to be part of Wikipedia:WikiProject California, Wikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America and Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages. That is not something we can do today without tagging for all 4 projects or creating messy sub projects. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:10, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Sounds very logical, can you check the link above that John Carter posted to see if they actually CAN do this? I am a complete syntax/programming/markup not-geek, it's all gibberish to me. Montanabw^(talk) 22:47, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
    • On the surface, it sounds like what I was looking for. Like you, complex templates are not my forte so I can't say for sure. I suspect that the code in question would need to go in the lower level project, like Nevada or equine in the examples above. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

(outdent) - It would be easily possible to add optional "Mammals" parameters to the Cats banner or other banners with the Mammals project appearing in the "drop-down" section if that is what you are asking. Are there specific templates you would want to see it added to? John Carter (talk) 19:23, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Could you "sandbox" what this would look like for {{WikiProject Equine}} somewhere and post the link here? I personally would like to just have Plantdrew not tag WP Mammals on half the horse articles because that is silly. That said, some of the WPEQ articles are biographies of people who are into equestrian sport, so it's not something they all need. If it looks good, I can post the sandbox link at WPEQ talk and see if anyone else objects. Montanabw^(talk) 22:26, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Give me a few days tomorrow being a hoiday here and I'll get something up. I think it would probably work best as a variation on existing "task force" parameters, so that the assessor can specifically choose to activate it in specific cases, which here would probably predominantly be articles on species, species history, etc. John Carter (talk) 23:00, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Just noticed this. There seems to be a parallel discussion at Template talk:WPBannerMeta#Question, and perhaps duplication of work - possibly people pulling in different directions (WP:MULTI). Of my two suggestions there, I favour my first (modify the more specific banner to have |mammals=yes) --Redrose64 (talk) 23:19, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Right, it started here and John noted it over there, I think to get the techies looking at it. Either place is fine with me for discussion. Montanabw^(talk) 19:52, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

If WikiProject Mammals likes this solution (I would, if I were them), then that's great. If they don't (e.g., if their banner supplies some other feature, or if they disagree with WPEQ's rating system), then you're wasting your time. You cannot force them to use your banner (exactly like WPUS cannot force fifty-odd US-related WikiProjects to use its banner). WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

No one can keep people from doing silly things if they are hell-bent on ridiculous and redundant behavior; but I am trying to attempt a solution that meets the needs of both projects, or more the point, I am bending over backwards so that one individual who seems bent on inserting the mammals project template into what will be thousands upon thousands of mammal articles already tagged by "child" projects in the tree can do so without creating hopeless clutter. Montanabw^(talk) 05:15, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

User:John Carter/Equine and its talk page are set up using the existing model of the Equine banner. If variant importance assessments or additional material were wanted, I could set it up using the Template:WikiProject Christianity model. John Carter (talk) 16:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

{{WPB}} and {{WPBS}} were created to deal with the clutter, if that's your problem. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:23, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Naming convention for WikiProject articles

Hi, there's a discussion regarding the articles in WikiProject Somalia here about whether the categories should be "A-class Somalia articles" or "A-class WikiProject Somalia articles," etc. I'm appreciate any views from here. Thanks! -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:14, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Tool server mantiance

See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Help making a template -- Moxy (talk) 22:31, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

held potx

need what? help NOW NOW OR CUT YOU means life in life I CAN"T TELL YOU SORRY

Um, is that supposed to be comprehensible? John Carter (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Joining wikiprojects

How do you join wikiprojects? Do you just add the userbox to your user page, or is it more complicated than that? Also how do I fix the formatting of this text? UserJDalek 23:57, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

1. Just show up and start working. You may add a userbox if you want. You may add your name to the list of participants if you want (most WikiProjects have one somewhere; they're usually seriously out of date). The important thing is to read the WikiProject's talk page and work with the other people there to improve articles. Tell them what you're doing, and ask them what they're doing. If it's quiet, then try to WP:REVIVE it.
2. Don't put any spaces at the start of the line. I've fixed it for you. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:05, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

@UserJDalek: The location of the signup sheet varies between WikiProjects, sometimes it's not obvious. For example, the main page of WikiProject Doctor Who begins with a "Welcome!" box; in that you will find the text "If you would like to help, please inquire on the talk page, sign up on our list of participants, or just start editing." The second link there takes you to a page containing three lists and some instructions. One of those instructions reads "If you're interested in joining the project, please add your name to the list of participants." and the link in that takes you to the actual list. It may be edited: just put your login ID in alphabetical order, observing the existing pattern, like this. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:21, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

FAQ

What is a wiki pedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.64.76.174 (talk) 15:19, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

A Wikipedia is an encyclopedia written using wiki software. You might want to ask questions like this at the WP:Reference desk. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:30, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Article assessment screening

Anyone who assesses articles very often knows how often the assessments get out of date, and how tedious it is to re-check them manually.

Nettrom and Aaron Halfaker have analyzed all 9,000+ plus of the WP:MED stubs and found about 750 that they figured had at least a 50% chance of not being a stub. The list has been posted at m:Research:Ideas/Screening WikiProject Medicine articles for quality/Prediction table. The next step is to manually re-screen the pages on the list, to see how accurate their algorithm is. If anyone's interested, please feel free to have a look. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:02, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

{{COTWs}}

Template:COTWs (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has been nominated for deletion; this template interlinks wikiproject collaboration areas -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 07:12, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

How to deal with disruption of a project?

Even before working up infrustructure and deciding on priorities, Wikiproject Countering systemic bias/Gender gap task force already is having problem with disruption via some individuals. They have wikihounded women to the task force (causing two to quit already, leaving long disgruntled posts), imposing unwanted agendas through constant argumentation, and made repeated accusatory and nasty comments on anything they disagree with. One past and probably future poster already admitted elsewhere he wanted the task force gone.

At this point those actually interested in an effective project have been a bit reluctant to quickly remove/hat/close/archive disruptive comments/threads, though I think that will change. There already has been a warning that Men's Right's community sanctions could be invoked should individuals have a definitive history on men's rights-related articles. Some problems, should they continue, also may be dealt with via the sexology arbitration. But other issues are not yet covered by any general sanctions and aren't always dealt with well at ANI, though that may have to be the next step. (I assume WP:Dispute resolution noticeboard would not deal with them.)

Are there any other steps well-meaning members of the project can take to deal with chronic disruption? Thanks for your help. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 14:49, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry. There really aren't any specific procedures to deal with this. Serious disruption of WikiProjects has historically been rare, although it can be extremely harmful when it happens. You can pursue IBANs and TBANs for individuals, but getting bans approved can be politically challenging. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:26, 11 August 2014 (UTC)