User talk:Patrol forty

Welcome!

Hello, Patrol forty! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 03:11, 5 September 2014 (UTC) Getting Started Contributing to Wikipedia The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump IRC channels • Mailing lists Discover what's going on in the Wikimedia community (The Signpost) Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

A barnstar for you

		The Original Barnstar
		Even though I disagree with your arguments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/HMS Richmond helicopter crash, I would like to give you this barnstar in recognition of the effort you've gone to in doing your research when making your first-ever edits to WP. I suspect this will be the first of many awards you receive if you continue here! Welome to Wikipedia Wittylama 12:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to second that. Even though we disagree, I respect you for making your case so articulately. I hope to see more of you in future. Perhaps we might even find ourselves agreeing on something. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:31, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you both. Patrol forty (talk) 06:23, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Signing posts

On another note, you'll see that a couple of your messages on the HMS Richmond deletion discussion now have the words "Preceding unsigned comment added by Patrol forty (talk • contribs)" written after them. This was automatically added by a bot whose job is to go around and try to attributed comments in discussions that were left unsigned in error. Until the new talk-page software is turned on which will completely redesign the way disucssions happen (and will make overtly 'signing' discussion pages a thing of the past), what you need to do in order to add your name and a timestamp to the end of comments is to simply write 4 tildes at the end. That is, this "~~~~". When you save the page, these tildes automatically convert to a signature and datestamp. You can adjust what your signature looks like in your preferences setting. I hope that helps. Sincerely, Wittylama 12:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the info. Patrol forty (talk) 06:23, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Are noobs expected to be totally clueless?

You had better be careful (jk). I've been accused of being somebody's sock account because I displayed advanced Wikipedia knowledge like how to find a policy, guideline, or article via a google-like search engine. Which makes me wonder why, if they think everything is that difficult to learn, do they leave it in an admittedly confounding mess? I.e., "we openly encourage you to edit Wikipedia as an IP – you are not required to make an account; however, if you do eventually make an account you had better hide the fact that you've edited this enormous project before, as we view all new accounts who are not clueless with suspicion". Then they wonder why this site is having recruitment and retention problems! Anyway, it's nice to meet you. I appreciated several of your comments at Jimbo's page, and I was impressed that you knew he had one, because that is a pretty well kept secret around here ... lol. Rationalobserver (talk) 22:36, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I try to WP:AGF but responses such as these "You're a fast learner, I didn't find pages like this for ages." in my view can be seen as loaded. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:15, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh yes, the intent was clear. As it happens, I was accused of being a sock very early on here (simply because I am apparently a freak by being able to navigate a website and read and digest concepts like GNG in a matter of days rather than years, as one so-called expert tried to claim was the norm). It seems to be a common tactic in those who don't want to answer questions here. Much like that incident, I seem to have only attracted that accusation from that person simply because I replied to one of their comments with some observations of my own. Patrol forty (talk) 23:24, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Somebody who has been here barely a few weeks and is somehow greatly versed and highly opinionated on site policy and in a place to lecture veterans such as myself on "sphere of influence", the history of Eric/Malleus and already contributing to high-end articles. People are suspicious? Hmm I wonder why...♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:05, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

I've given you no lectures, and I make no apology for having an opinion. And I continue to be amazed at the sort of trivial tasks some people here seem to think take great effort and time, such as reading policy pages or following links in discussions. I have absolutely no idea why you think I know the history of Eric, I'd never even heard of him until yesterday. But if you think that makes me unqualified to comment on his behaviour, or if you think that gives you the right to come to my page with these insinuations, you're wrong. In my humble opinion, which I feel quite entitled to give since this is my talk page you've come to, you're doing more to damage this guy's long term future on Wikipedia than any of the people you seem to think are only criticizing him for a "pat on the back from Jimbo". With advocates like you fighting his corner, stroking his ego, and giving him some frankly quite ridiculous 'advice', in my opinion, he's well and truly fucked. Patrol forty (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

I saw your contributions at ArbCom. Nice work! Just a reminder that in addition to the C-word, EC also frequently calls people idiots, such as this example, where an editor made the mistake of arguing about an extraneous comma. Rationalobserver (talk) 22:40, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

He. I can't imagine ever getting so worked up about a comma to feel the need to call anyone an idiot. Patrol forty (talk) 22:58, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

If anything here is truly "beyond the pale" that overreaction certainly is. I mentioned it because an important aspect the enablers' defense involves referring to the overwhelming amount of duress that usually causes the outbreaks, which are apparently well deserved in many cases. Rationalobserver (talk) 23:06, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. There seems to me to be plenty of evidence out there that debunks many of these claims about how awesome/misunderstood/victimised/essential Eric is. Even the guy who posted the list of Featured Article writers neglected to say whether or not any of the other people on that list were in any way as controversial as Eric is. If it turns out they're not, well, that would be another of these claims discredited - this theory that there's something about the process of creating high quality articles on Wikipedia that means you just have to conduct yourself the way Eric does. Patrol forty (talk) 23:23, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Not to mention the fact that there are more than 4,600,000 articles on English Wikipedia, with 800 new ones created every day. So even if he was as good as he and his enablers think he is, his net contribution to this project is absolutely miniscule in comparison to the whole. Rationalobserver (talk) 23:33, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Your evidence at Gender Gap Task Force

The Arbitration Committee has asked that evidence presentations be kept to around 500 words and 50 diffs. Your presentation is over 1600 words. Please edit your section to focus on the most relevant evidence, otherwise it might be removed. If you wish to submit over-length evidence, you must first obtain the agreement of the arbitrators by posting a request on the /Evidence talk page. For the Arbitration Committee, Worm^TT(talk) 10:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Done. Patrol forty (talk) 14:52, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Please disclose your previous account

You're either a former IP editor, an alternative account of an existing editor or a ban evader. Your first edit with this account was to an Afd and consisted of more than 8000 characters. You have less than 100 edits with this account yet seem to have an axe to grind at Jimbo Wales's talk page and by posting mostly a long winded opinion piece at an arbitration case. It would be a good idea to come clean now.--MONGO 14:04, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Your'e wrong on all counts. My first post to that Afd was the result of considerable research into the issue. My comments at Jimbo Wales's talk page reflect the same. I've said it before, and I'll say it as many times as this accusation keeps surfacing - I haven't been here hours or days, I've been reading Wikipedia for several weeks now, and while I don't consider myself to be any more capable than the average new user, I am perfectly happy to be seen as such if that simply means I am able to read policy pages, follow links and edit pages on Wikipedia. I am not in the habit of wasting my time commenting on issues I have not researched, and I make no apologies for having an opinion on any subject. And I most certainly won't be losing any sleep over being seen as an 'axe-grinder' by those who themselves could be so easily labelled as cheer-leaders for the counter-position. Patrol forty (talk) 15:50, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

In other words you are not here to write an encyclopedia. You are here to troll. That was obvious from the start. As far as me being a cheerleader then you do not seem to have done your research nor have you any inclination as to what justice is. Considering your "contributions" to article space is zero, I find your aforementioned comments ludicrous.--MONGO 16:12, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

My article edits are not zero, and what I thought about your accusations was already clearly visible on this page before you posted. The reality is, while it's extremely easy to accuse people of trolling, but it's even easier to spot when it's actually happening. Patrol forty (talk) 16:47, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Reminder

Your recent editing history at User talk:Jimbo Wales shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.--MONGO 14:58, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

OK then MONGO, even though I was already trying to resolve the dispute, I'll see if I can get consensus on User talk:Jimbo Wales on whether or not your restoration of obvious trolling is appropriate or not. Patrol forty (talk) 15:10, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Considering you've contributed nothing substantive to article space with this username, that you would be seeking further drama is of no surprise.--MONGO 15:15, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

I tried to deal with this obvious trolling quickly and quietly, but you objected. I'm doing nothing more dramatic than following the advice in the reminder you just placed on my talk page. Patrol forty (talk) 15:21, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

I've removed the thread you created. The third option - the grownup option - is to leave Giano's comments there, but ignore them. Extending the drama for no benefit whatsoever is uncool no matter who is doing it, but especially uncool for a 100-edit "new" user who has, so far, done pretty much nothing on WP except exacerbate conflict. Your drama/usefulness ratio needs to improve significantly if you want people to overlook the fact that you're a returning editor violating WP:CLEANSTART. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:04, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

• Floquenbeam, I genuinely respect your optimism here, even if I can't share in it. Dennis 2¢ 16:49, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm not a returning editor or a "new" editor. It's not 'grown up' to pretend not to know what I think of those accusations. It's decidedly 'uncool' to reward and encourage an troll like Giano by enabling the restoration of his obvious trolling at User talk:Jimbo Wales, then accusing those who seek to establish consensus, of "trolling" themselves. The drama/usefulness ratio of that approach is obviously 1:0, in the long term especially. I'm just a new editor who is simply apparently above average in a ability (which I dispute), who dares to have an opinion on issues which, according to Mr Wales anyway, are seriously affecting Wikipedia. I will never apologise to you or anyone else for such 'crimes', nor will I ever seek your permission or approval to do so. You can attempt to demean and insult me all you want, as an administrator you're just proving his point about the state of governance on Wikipedia. It should be obvious to anyone reading this page why I might not be busting a gut to rack up a few thousand article edits just to gain your respect. Rather than conducting a futile Monday's only 'strike', the most effective protest against the current malaise here would seem to me to be to withhold all edits until such time as you feel comfortable with the environment in which you would be expected to volunteer your valuable time and knowledge, for nothing. If you think I would be remotely interested in collaborating with people like MONGO or Eric or anyone else on current evidence, or could be persuaded to do so by being insulted and demeaned or dismissed as a troll, you obviously know absolutely nothing about human nature. Patrol forty (talk) 18:07, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

So you're not interested in collaborating with anyone on this collaborative venture? How is that going to work? Eric Corbett 18:17, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm not interested in collaborating with people whose allegedly good contributions are seen as somehow more important or valid than mine are/could be. I'm not interested in contributing to any article where there might be a user already 'collaborating' there in a manner that so obviously goes against everything Wikipedia stands for. I have no interest in putting my time or effort into a collaborative site which makes several clearly false promises about the sort of treatment I could expect to receive in return for conducting myself appropriately. I have no interest in contributing to a site which has groups of users who think treating each other with a basic level of respect is a childish goal, something which is totally unrealistic due to how hard the work is, or is otherwise a privilege which has to be earned by making a set number of edits they deem to be useful. The fallacy of such a view is obvious, and it can even be seen in practical effect in the rare cases when those supposedly useful users come into conflict with each other, and all of a sudden their words and deeds don't look much different to the sort of user they regularly condemn. I'm ready, willing and able to contribute to any article where the promises and ideals at Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia are being actively upheld by all users, but particularly administrators, as the people supposedly held to a higher standard. I'm not interest in working on any article if the administrators in that area possess the sort of biases and beliefs about Wikipedia and its users that are frequently on display in those who regularly hang out at your talk page offering you tea and sympathy, or regularly advocate on your behalf in ways that are so obviously out of alignment with the documented purpose and standards of Wikipedia that people like me can only conclude they're working from a decidedly different set of user documentation. Patrol forty (talk) 19:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Bottom line is that since you haven't contributed squat to article space with this username, spent your first editing over an Afd and then followed that up with rantings at Jimbo Wales talk and then the Gender Gap arbcom case....all that in about 100 edits. Its pretty ridiculous you would be yacking about civility considering you just told another editor this just two weeks ago.--MONGO 19:24, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Funnily enough I was just explaining that edit to Carrite at Talk:Jimbo Wales as you were posting here. Other than that, since your posts are becoming repetitive in both content and evident intent, in the interests of saving time, I will simply refer you to my previous replies, especially the one about how easy it is to spot trolling. Patrol forty (talk) 19:44, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

• Enough already, the problems were addressed, there is no need for mudslinging back and forth here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:35, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

  I don't really see mud slinging. I don't even see that much heat, just people with legitimate concerns, including one who has the tools to possibly made a determination. Politely expressing doubt isn't the same as slinging mud. As someone who has examined more than several hundred users contrib histories over the years, it does raise an eyebrow, even to Floq. No reason to jump to conclusions, but the questions are legitimate. Dennis 2¢ 20:13, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

@MONGO: Is what you're doing here really fair to Patrol (Mind if I call you that?)? I mean, if you have absolutely no proof that Patrol has had a past account, then why are you accusing him/her of said problem? Not everyone has to contribute to the articles, some people can just try to make Wikipedia a better place.Amanda Smalls 20:49, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

• Don't mind at all. Patrol forty (talk) 00:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

• Many, many editors (if not most) would disagree with you, loudly. Even admin are expected to have significant contributions to articles. The whole reason Wikipedia exists is for the reader (ie: articles), not to be some second rate social networking website. People who only want to play politics on the back pages are not helpful. Dennis 2¢ 21:16, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Dennis, don't pretend like your some kind of uninterested passer-by here. I've already cited your comments at Eric's talk page as being completely divorced from what Wikipedia is all about (based on the actual user documentation, not some fallacious idea that the only thing that matters is how well/how many articles people write). While I don't doubt these are your genuinely held beliefs as to what Wikipedia should be all about, and while I don't doubt you genuinely believe that the worst Eric is guilty of is calling people an ass "every few months", don't present them as the majority view.

Like it or not, there's plenty of people here who have figured out the truth of these sorts of claims about what Eric is and what he does. And surveys show quite clearly what users expect, and it's most certainly not to be personally attacked. Which is great, because it's already a rule here. As an administrator, you're expected to intervene when people like Eric misbehave in a repeated, deliberate and remorseless manner, and you're expected to strongly object when people like Eric try to impose their entirely different interaction model on the site through sheer force of will, or by conducting their own 'hate campaign' against Mr Wales for speaking out against it.

You can dismiss the ongoing conversations on this issue as 'playing politics' as much as you like, they're not going to go away. Mr Wales is providing strong leadership on this issue, leadership that appears to be sorely needed. If you can't see who he might be talking about when he cites a failed governance, then there's a good chance he means you. If you don't know who he might be advising to find another hobby, then it might even be you (and it's certainly Eric). The only people who seem to think it's me, are those who strongly advocating for Eric. So no surprises there at all. I'm not the reason this conversation is happening, and the people who don't want it to happen are simply wasting their time talking about me. Patrol forty (talk) 00:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Your faith in Mr Wales is very touching. Let's see what will have changed in six months, or even a year. I predict nothing at all, because Mr Wales will have moved on to other areas where he'll make equally bold statements but at the end of the day do nothing at all. Eric Corbett 00:07, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

His concern seems real enough to me. I'd certainly be interested to know if he's ever talked about existential threats to Wikipedia in the same way as this one, and then just dropped the issue 6 months later. Patrol forty (talk) 00:23, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Many times. Eric Corbett 00:25, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

@Dennis Brown: Well, considering that Jimbo Wales only made 38 edits to the article space in 2013, I'm going to mark your statement that people should have significant contribs to the encyclopedia, as invalid.Amanda Smalls 12:14, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Others would say that vindicates it, but of course, you are welcome to your own interpretation. Dennis 2¢ 13:02, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm smelling a sock and or meat puppet farm. This Amanda Small character has had two name changes in 90 days and a fair number of edits have been little more than trolling nonsense. This Patrol Forty character has done little other than stir up drama. I'm inclined to suggest an indefinite block for at least Patrol Forty based on NOT HERE.--MONGO 13:49, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

@MONGO: Well, I cant blame you for that. But I assure you I've changed.Amanda Smalls 13:53, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

@MONGO: Bring it to ANI then, we can have a witch hunt for socks. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:11, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Courtesy notifications

My apologies for more or less asking the same question here as on the ArbCom case page but I would like to ensure I receive a response. Could you please explain why you haven't extended the courtesy of notifying me you are dragging me into the GGTF ArbCom case by mentioning me there? I note you have also referred to my talk page in the discussion above, so I would also appreciate an explanation of why I am being discussed here and what picture you are trying to paint of me as my reading of this is unclear? How did you happen to arrive at my talk page anyway - I'm not exactly high profile, am I? Thank you in anticipation of a response. SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:21, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't aware I was dragging you into anything, nor was I aware that a notification is required whenever anyone mentions anyone else on Wikipedia by name. If you insist on being notified every time I mention your name, I will of course endeavour to comply with your request. I would have thought the reason why I linked to your talk page above was obvious from the words that surround it, and I'm not really sure what I can say here that would explain it any better than that. I believe I found your talk page by following one of the people involved in the GGTF case, probably Montanabw, but I can't be sure. Patrol forty (talk) 15:22, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi protection

I've protected this page for a few hours. If you prefer it not be protected, just ping me or any admin. Dennis - 2¢ 21:18, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Signal to noise ratio

It is an interesting and useful measurement and methaphor, how much "noise" versus how much signal. You can tolerate a lot of noise as long as you have much more signal. Ask any audiophile. The same is true at Wikipedia. We tolerate a bit more noise from the most productive people, simply because their noise is a very tiny portion of their total signal, the total body of their contributions. Sometimes we all might go off on tangents (myself included), have our little tantrums or get dragged unwillingly into the festering, political bowels of Wikipedia, but for most people, this is something that happens from time to time: a rare thing between fits of doing actual work. You know, writing articles and the like. Right now, you are all noise and no signal, and this is a problem.

When someone comes to Wikipedia and the overwhelming bulk of their time is to treat the place like a social network, or to right great wrongs, or just to go around and criticize individuals or institutions, we often say they are not here to build an encyclopedia. As innocuous as that sounds, it is actually one of the strongest justifications for indefinitely blocking someone from editing. It doesn't even matter WHAT they are here to do; if they aren't here to build an encyclopedia, if they are all noise and no signal, they are a drain on resources and they must be blocked. It is parasitic to the community.

I say this as a favor, because I think you deserve one last warning before someone comes in and indef blocks you, and this is that warning. Of course, you are free to ignore it, but facts are facts. You have 13 article edits. Thirteen [1]. If you continue down this road, you may find yourself blocked very soon. Dennis - 2¢ 23:09, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

When an administrator who is so biased toward User:Eric Corbett as you are comes to give 'advice' to the user who has been criticising both Eric and your own fitness to be an administrator, people tend to view that with suspicion. As well they should. If an unbiased administrator with no obvious agenda would like to give me the same advice, then I'd ask them to review my edits and ask themselves if a reasonable observer would agree that WP:NOTNOTHERE applies - all I've done is express an opinion on Wikipedia policy issues, in a non-disruptive manner. I've not been hostile, I've not been dishonest, and I've certainly not been treating Wikipedia as a social network. I'd also ask them to consider if Dennis' 'signal-to-noise' comment has any basis in Wikipedia rules, or whether it's just another in a long line of rules he's just made up, and which just happen to benefit users like Eric. What I suspect is really happening here is that Dennis is pissed off that he can't block me himself because people would see the connection between us immediately, and he's pissed off that he has probably already realised that he's one of the administrators who Mr Wales thinks is making this situation worse due to the way he interacts with editors like Eric (who he obviously values more than editors with just Thirteen article edits), and is just taking it out on me. Patrol forty (talk) 00:24, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

If any admin happens by here now, I hope that they just block you. Yours is a ludicrous position and I've yet to see you support it with any evidence. In fact, I might just raise your conduct at AN or ANI if it has not been resolved by the time I wake up. - Sitush (talk) 00:42, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

I happen to be "an unbiased administrator with no obvious agenda", and I think that Dennis has given you some good advice. Deor (talk) 01:15, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. As you see below, things have already moved on. Sitush seems to have taken Dennis' hint and filed a complaint, even though just a few hours earlier he claimed he was being honest by not accusing me of being a sock as he had no evidence to prove such an allegation. A couple of hours later, he's now accusing me of being a sock without evidence, and Dennis is right there beside him, continuing to act as if we've never had any previous interaction. If you care to up the biased/non-biased ratio, feel free to come over and comment (note my request for proof the supposed 'signal to noise' ratio rule even exists). Patrol forty (talk) 01:46, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Blocked

I had actually come over to place this block a couple hours ago, but while I was typing up the block notice I saw Dennis Brown's good advice above and decided to give you time to change course if you chose to. Your response and accusations above have served to further convince me that you are in fact not here to build an encyclopedia. Though I'm sure you've already found the guide to appealing blocks in your perusals of Wikipedia policy, here's the link just in case. ~Adjwilley (talk) 02:17, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

ANI

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Actually, I can;t be bothered waiting 7 or 8 hours. You'll know the drill. - Sitush (talk) 00:51, 26 October 2014 (UTC)