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:*Fifth, finally, the very website, that BobNesh both 1) cites as authoritative and 2) rejects as authoritative, cites on both the [http://www.millaj.com/faq.shtml Frequently Asked Questions] page and the [http://www.millaj.com/raq.shtml Recently Asked Questions] page, that Ms. Jovovich is "Montenegrian".
:*Fifth, finally, the very website, that BobNesh both 1) cites as authoritative and 2) rejects as authoritative, cites on both the [http://www.millaj.com/faq.shtml Frequently Asked Questions] page and the [http://www.millaj.com/raq.shtml Recently Asked Questions] page, that Ms. Jovovich is "Montenegrian".
:BobNesh is simply pushing a Serbian nationalist agenda in contradiction to Ms. Jovovich's '''''direct quotes'''''. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 17:35, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
:BobNesh is simply pushing a Serbian nationalist agenda in contradiction to Ms. Jovovich's '''''direct quotes'''''. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 17:35, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

:I'll suggest the heretical notion that it doesn't matter at all. Jovovich is an American citizen with a career that is completely based in the US. She has lived in the Ukraine, London, and the United States. The ethnicity of her mother and father is of less importance than her preferred brand of suntan lotion. If we simply eliminate all references to it from the article, the article is just as good as it was before, and people that have nothing better to do than to argue about it can do so using another website's resources.—[[User:Kww|Kww]]([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 19:30, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:30, 22 June 2015

Good articleMilla Jovovich has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 29, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
February 4, 2008Good article nomineeListed
June 12, 2008WikiProject A-class reviewApproved
Current status: Good article

Editing for encyclopedic tone

Given its reliance on fan magazines, the article too much reflects their tone. Every detail that has been published (e.g., quotes on watching video games as a child) does not need to be reproduced here. Try to stick to main points. Shortened Lead to have it be more of a summary; more needs to be edited out.Parkwells (talk) 14:28, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Serbian vs Montenegrin

Well, this is going too far. Sources are saying that Milla is Serbian, while some users are changing to Montenegrin. Why??? If you cant choose which ethnicity of her father is, than change it to Yugoslavian. --MisterBean (talk) 17:14, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong. Ms. Jovovich herself says that she is Montenegrin here and here. Also see the discussions here and here. The consensus is always that she is Montenegrin based on the most reliable sources (her own words being the most important). --Taivo (talk) 18:41, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think her father is declared as Serb, but he got Montenegrin origin. Like Ivo Andric, he is of Croat origin, but declared as a Serb. --MisterBean (talk) 11:26, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ms. Jovovich is perfectly justified in saying that she is Montenegrin. That's what the article must say. --Taivo (talk) 14:42, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ms. Jovovich says she is Montenegrin. That's the end of the matter. --Taivo (talk) 23:17, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Continuing Serbian nationalist vandalism ignores Ms. Jovovich's own statements here and here. Her own words take priority over the assertions and synthesis of Wikipedia editors. Also see the discussions here and here. The consensus is always that she is Montenegrin based on the most reliable sources (her own words being the most important). --Taivo (talk) 16:29, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Here are Ms. Jovovich's own words: "Jovovich was born in 1975, in Kiev, Ukraine, the only child of a Russian performer, Galina Loginova ("she was an amazing actress"), and a Montenegrin father, Bogich Jovovich. ("They're men's men in Montenegro, very macho, especially up north where my Dad and all his brothers and cousins are from.")" from [1]. --Taivo (talk) 16:52, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed sentences

Perhaps people could add sources for each sentence, focusing on what Jovovich and father say about themselves, which should be given priority unless there's something incongruous about what they say. Sarah (talk) 19:11, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Father's nationality/citizenship

1(a)

"Milla Jovovich was born ... the daughter of Bogić Jovović, a Montenegrin pediatrician ..."

  • Sources:

1(b)

"Milla Jovovich was born ... the daughter of Bogić Jovović, a Serbian pediatrician ..."

  • Sources:
  • millaj.com, official website: "Milla Jovovich ... was born ... in Kyiv (Kiev), Ukraine to father Bogdanovitch Jovovich (Serbian doctor) and mother Galina Loginova Jovovich (Russian actress)."

1(c)

(Technically the most accurate statement because in 1981 there was no "Serbia" or "Montenegro"):

"Milla Jovovich was born ... the daughter of Bogić Jovović, a Yugoslavian pediatrician ..." --Taivo (talk) 21:15, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sources:
Discussion
  • Thank you, Taivo. Montenegro did exist in 1981. It wasn't a state at that point, but it was a nation (it had its own cultural/ethnic identity), if I've understood correctly. Sarah (talk) 21:41, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • But neither Montenegro nor Serbia were independent states in 1981 and so "Yugoslavia" was the term for the country that Ms. Jovovich's father was a citizen of. (Ms. Jovovich was never a citizen of any of these countries, she was a citizen of the Soviet Union when she emigrated to the US.) So calling him "Yugoslavian" is accurate for 1981. --Taivo (talk) 23:17, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • But that's like saying someone can't be Welsh if they're also British. Anyway, I don't want to get involved in the debate because I'm trying to help only as an admin. Whatever you decide is fine with me, so long as it leads to a clear consensus – or, failing that, a well-sourced decision that's enforceable. Sarah (talk) 23:31, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The point of this option wasn't to actually say that her father was "Yugoslavian" necessarily, but just to include it as one of the options in the data. I appreciate your effort in setting this survey up. --Taivo (talk) 00:45, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Subject's nationality/citizenship

2(a)

"She identifies as Russian, Ukrainian, Montenegrin, and American."

  • Sources:

2(b)

"She identifies as Russian, Ukrainian, Serbian, and American."

  • Sources:

Serb father − says her official website!

Her official website bio clearly says:

″Milla Jovovich (pronounced "mee-luh" "yo-vo-vitch") was born December 17, 1975 in Kyiv (Kiev), Ukraine to father Bogdanovitch Jovovich (Serbian doctor) and mother Galina Loginova Jovovich (Russian actress). In 1981, Milla and her family left the Soviet Union and moved to London, England and then to Sacramento, California, ultimately settling in Los Angeles.″

Source: http://www.millaj.com/bio.shtml

(IMDb biography page claims the same:

"Her Serbian father, Bogdan Jovovich, was a medical doctor in Kiev."

Source: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000170/bio)

However, some users like TaivoLinguist constantly cite her official website wrongly and falsely claim that her father is Montenegrin, although there isn't word Montenegrin even mentioned on the cited site!

The other cited site, which is in Serbian and they don't understand it, is stating the same fact about her father! However these facts do not prevent TaivoLinguist, Nymf and other users to vandalise the page!

Several others wikipedia pages also state that Milla Jovovich is of Serb origin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasojevi%C4%87i#Notable_people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_American

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Serbian_Americans#Actors

Are they going to vandalise these wikipedia articles too, with the help of SlimVirgin?

Her article further says that her paternal family's estate was in Zlopek near Peć, Serbia, and that her paternal great-grandfather, Bogić Camić Jovović, was a flag-bearer of the Vasojevići clan.

And what is Vasojevići clan (or tribe), you may wonder? Well the answer is:

"The Vasojevići tribe (Serbian Cyrillic: Васојевићи, Vasojevići, pronounced [ʋâso̞je̞ʋit͡ɕi]) is the largest Serb tribe in Montenegro."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasojevi%C4%87i

Even her last name Jovović is listet in list of brotherhoods of Vasojevići clan last names. Are you going to change that as well?

Compromise solution may be Montenegrin Serb as nationality of her father and her.

In historiography, the Orthodox people of Montenegro were called Serbs. In the constitutions of the Principality of Montenegro and Kingdom of Montenegro, the Montenegrin people's ethnonym was Serbs. With the formation of Socialist Yugoslavia, the censuses showed a majority of people declaring as Montenegrins.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_Serbs — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobNesh (talk • contribs) 17:03, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BobNesh's comment is so full of Serbian nationalist bulloney it's hard to know where to start.
  • First, Ms. Jovovich's official website says, in different places, that her father was "Serbian", "Montenegrin", and "Yugoslavian". Since her website is not written by Ms. Jovovich herself, however, that's not surprising.
  • Second, Ms. Jovovich's own words state that her father was Montenegrin here. There is simply no question about it. That's not just throwaway line, but a detailed description of her father. It's not someone else's summary: "Jovovich was born in 1975, in Kiev, Ukraine, the only child of a Russian performer, Galina Loginova ("she was an amazing actress"), and a Montenegrin father, Bogich Jovovich. ("They're men's men in Montenegro, very macho, especially up north where my Dad and all his brothers and cousins are from.")" (parenthetical quotes are from Jovovich herself)
  • Third, quoting other Wikipedia pages is simply not a reliable source.
  • Fourth, the editor's extended discussion of his version of history is immaterial since Ms. Jovovich, in the clearest statement available--a direct quote during an interview--says that her father was Montenegrin.
  • Fifth, finally, the very website, that BobNesh both 1) cites as authoritative and 2) rejects as authoritative, cites on both the Frequently Asked Questions page and the Recently Asked Questions page, that Ms. Jovovich is "Montenegrian".
BobNesh is simply pushing a Serbian nationalist agenda in contradiction to Ms. Jovovich's direct quotes. --Taivo (talk) 17:35, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'll suggest the heretical notion that it doesn't matter at all. Jovovich is an American citizen with a career that is completely based in the US. She has lived in the Ukraine, London, and the United States. The ethnicity of her mother and father is of less importance than her preferred brand of suntan lotion. If we simply eliminate all references to it from the article, the article is just as good as it was before, and people that have nothing better to do than to argue about it can do so using another website's resources.—Kww(talk) 19:30, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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