Talk:Suicide of Tyler Clementi

Other national and international news stories to be added

This list also serves as a preemptive note to those suggesting this story is not notable.

• BBC Radio 1
• Fox News
• Daily Mail
• Barcelona Reporter
• Los Angeles Times
• MTV
• People Magazine
• Boston Globe
• NPR
• Chicago Tribune

Kingturtle (talk) 10:59, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

NB another article on the same subject (Tyler clementi) is at AfD here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Tyler_clementi . I'm not quite sure of the protocol when a notability-focused AfD's started on a version of an article that I think would otherwise be a clearcut redirect to this title. Gonzonoir (talk) 11:20, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Now resolved by migrating sources to this (correctly titled) version. Fæ (talk) 11:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Notability

It should be mentioned in this article that why this story is so notable is that charges have been filed. Nearly all such suicides of this nature never have any files charged. I am not sure how to phrase it in the article. Maybe someone can take a stab at it. Kingturtle (talk) 19:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to comment that the reason charges can be filed in this case, as opposed to so many others, is because there was a concrete event that occurred, as opposed to generic "bullying." But at the same time, it's not as clear cut as other cases because we have no motives or intentions. I also think the fact that this case involved the Internet/technology has gotten the media more riled up than it would otherwise. There's been a slew of commentary on the tech aspect and how it's affected this generation of youth. I've no idea how any of this would find its way into the article though. --RabidMonkeysEatGrass 20:09, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes. You make good points. What I find most interesting about this case is that there was enough evidence to bring charges to individuals. It is unusual. Kingturtle (talk) 20:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Claim unsupported by references

I believe the first sentence of the second paragraph is problematic, because the references cited do not make a claim that number of suicides by gay youth during the Fall of 2010 is "unusually high." Furthermore, the sentence links to the entry Suicide among LGBT youth, which states that "In 2004, 1,985 American adolescents under the age of 20 committed suicide, an increase of 18% from the previous year." Unless we are able to reliably source statistics that indicate that these suicides in Fall 2010 are in fact occurring with an "unusually high" frequency, then the sentence should be removed. It is also unusual that the sentence links to the Suicide among LGBT youth in two different places. I think the succeeding sentence about heightened media coverage is more appropriate and could stand alone with out the preceding sentence. CharwinBrussell (talk) 20:07, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Photograph question

I note that the Facebook portrait photo of Clementi is available on Wikinews (n:File:Tyler_Clementi.jpg). Are there any thoughts on how a (possibly fair use) image could be used on this article? WP:NFCI is often interpreted rather firmly but the Facebook photograph itself might be considered iconic and historic under these guidelines considering how widely it is being used in the national and international press. Fæ (talk) 21:27, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Support - does anyone know how to do this? 12.177.104.148 (talk) 04:03, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Fair use could apply if specifically and only used to show Clementi in an article specifically about him. This should be acceptable here (I say should because it would actually be up to a court to decide if his benefactors decided to file a suit that claimed they believed fair use did not apply). The image is already small, so there should also be no issues with resolution or the like, as fair use requires small image size and reduced resolution. The image should not be used in other articles like Suicide or anywhere else, even if they reference the event, because the scope of such articles are too broad to apply fair use to them. I would recommend keeping the caption short and concise, maybe only naming him and, if possible, a date the image was taken.

Is it already on Wikipedia? It could use a crop, and get rid of the empty spaces on either side of him. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 04:09, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I could not find it uploaded yet, so I did. It is available at File:Tyler Clementi.jpg. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 04:32, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request

Return to this version (with the pp-dispute also. Per unexplained removal of sourced content. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 05:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I support this edit request. Amongst other things the current version has an annoying floating ">" in the lead. Fæ (talk) 08:12, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Agree; quite a large amount of material was removed without explanation, and a stray mark was inserted. Otherwise, only a short quote was added, which was unsourced. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 09:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Agree. --j⚛e decker^talk 14:51, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Support, see no reason to remove the text, and the added quote, besides being unsourced, doesn't really add anything. C628 (talk) 15:07, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Please add back the introductory information

While it has not yet been determined if Ravi's actions were motivated by Clementi's sexuality, the case has been considered part of an unusually high stream of suicides in fall 2010 in the US relating to gay bullying or harassment leading to suicide among LGBT youth. The Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network stated "there has been heightened media attention surrounding the suicides in New Jersey, Texas, California, Indiana, and Minnesota." Asher Brown, 13, Billy Lucas, 15, and Seth Walsh, 13, are notable other suicides allegedly related to gay taunting in September 2010. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.177.104.148 (talk • contribs)

• This would be addressed by the reversion already requested above. Fæ (talk) 11:01, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Agree with Fæ. Pity I commented on the request above or I'd make the edit myself, I think that motion (above) has consensus. --j⚛e decker^talk 17:47, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Please add back the response information

• Judy Shepard, the mother of Matthew Shepard, stated "I hope they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law," she said. "What they did was reckless, thoughtless and hateful." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.177.104.148 (talk • contribs)

Primary sources from twitter

I find it helpful to have the actual posts by the roommate listed. Please do not remove them as they are primary sources. 12.177.104.148 (talk) 03:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

• Could you supply a diff to make it easier to work out which text and references you are asking for? Thanks, Fæ (talk) 11:03, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

7 days full edit block

Could someone explain why the edit warring was considered so extreme that 7 days of full protection were necessary rather than a block on the person edit-warring (the article was created less than 24 hours ago)? I seem to have missed something about the history here as it does not seem to be a content dispute as described by the admin on RPP. It appears that the only problematic edits were from anon IP contributors, a partial block might have resolved this and this was indeed the type of block requested.

The current lock states that it may be removed if "disputes have been resolved." Unfortunately I do not think there is any actual dispute here, if there is, perhaps someone could summarize it so that we can get a consensus on whether it is already resolved or if it requires further discussion? There would then be a basis on which to go back to WP:RPP and request an unlock. Fæ (talk) 10:40, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree. This block is much too severe. A week with no editing? When new information is developing each day? I understand the concern regarding vandals and strange edits, but shouldn't a lesser protection involving only anon and new accounts be more appropriate here? Kingturtle (talk) 15:11, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

While I agree, I also am more than willing to make edits for changes below that I haven't commented on that have consensus. There are a couple such changes that I think that could demonstrate consensus if a few people were to take a look and actually add their opinions to. Conversely, I'd love it if someone could find a sysop to take a look at the first editprotected request (above), I believe that it's demonstrated consensus, but since I'm part of that consensus, that isn't my call. --j⚛e decker^talk 21:58, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of changing the protection to semi. I believe all involved will act responsibly. Kingturtle (talk) 03:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from C628, 2 October 2010

Please change the second paragraph in the background section to the following; as it stands, I think it goes into too much detail and gives undue weight to that section. Also, there's a note in superscript that's rather ugly and work better as a hidden note IMO.

Prior to his suicide, Clementi had complained to university officials that his roommate had spied on his sex life and videostreamed it using a webcam, and had requested a new room. He claimed to have approached the dorm adviser and asked for a new room after learning about the first violation and then discovering Ravi invited his Twitter followers to watch a second sexual encounter. "He [the dorm adviser] seemed to take it seriously," Clementi wrote in an online post about 15 hours before his jump from the George Washington Bridge. Clementi also wrote that he had discussed the issue with two more seniot officials.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/10/01/2010-10-01_he_wanted_roomie_out_rutgers_suicide_complained_of_video_voyeur_before_fatal_fal.html|title=Rutgers' Tyler Clementi complained of video voyeur before fatal fall from George Washington Bridge|publisher=Daily News (New York)|date=1 October 2010|accessdate=2 October 2010}}</ref> C628 (talk) 14:40, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

• I believe that the revert as requested in #Edit_request above would resolve your issues. Do you agree? Fæ (talk) 14:53, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
  • No, I don't think so, unless I'm overlooking something painfully obvious; the revision that it's requested to be reverted to still contains the text I'd proposed replacing. I'm all in favor of the above request; I see this one as being a seperate matter, hence the seperate edit request. C628 (talk) 15:06, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm okay with the change if you fix "seniot" to "senior". I'd also suggest "then discovering that Ravi" rather than "discovering Ravi", the sentence is already a little grammatically complex and I this (or some other rewording) might make it read more easily. --j⚛e decker^talk 15:12, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

two extra spaces after lead paragraph...

messing up formatting, please fix.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 15:32, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Done --j⚛e decker^talk 15:50, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Category:Suicides by jumping from a height

Please add "Category:Suicides by jumping from a height" when it us unlocked. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 16:35, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request to add portrait photograph

thumb|Webcam self portrait of Tyler Clementi.

The photograph File:Tyler Clementi.jpg has been uploaded on reasonable fair use grounds explicitly for use in this article. Catch 22 logic applies here; if the photograph is not added to the article for which it was uploaded, then, as a fair use image, the photograph will be deleted due to not being used. I suggest adding the following text (or similar) to the lead:

[[:File:Tyler Clementi.jpg|thumb|Webcam self portrait of Tyler Clementi.]]<!--Non free file removed by DASHBot-->

—Fæ (talk) 17:40, 2 October 2010 (UTC)