Talk:Rasgulla

Page name change

To reflect reality cited in links embedded in page itself, I propose that the name of this page be changed to either Roshogolla (Bengali) or Rosgola (Odia), since nowhere where this dessert is most commonly consumed, and was created, in Bengal and in Odisha, is it popularly called Rasgulla. By any stretch of imagination.

Relevant note should also be added in the page mentioning that in the North Indian languages of Hindi/Urdu as used in the Northern parts of India/Pakistan, the name for the same dish is Rasgulla.

171.79.91.125 (talk) [S. Basu , Kolkata, India] 14:50, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

See WP:COMMONNAME. utcursch | talk 15:09, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

"Rosogolla originated in West Bengal, rule GI authorities, finally rejecting Odisha's claim on its origin."

I have Requested the page move on 14 August 2015 Rasgulla → Rosogolla and prior to that and to this move request I have also given verifiable reasons in support of my submission said including others, the entire edit history of this page and other relevant pages created by this editor reflect/support in favour of above statements and now this editor hopes those declining administrators concerned now probably understand how prejudiced they were rejecting this editor's all relevant edits improperly, for the reason the GI Authorities now rule Rosogolla originated in West Bengal rejecting Odisha claim over its origin. Refer Rosogolla originated in West Bengal, rule GI authorities, rejecting Odisha claim

[| The page move requested on 14 August 2015] indicates the following, but prejudicial rejected.

Rasgulla → Rosogolla – Editor Snthakur has requested that this page be moved to Rosogolla stating, 'Rosogolla is the formal, original, familiar and most common name of this dessert.'

Regards

Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 12:55, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

It doesn't matter where rasgulla/rosogolla originated. What matters is what its common name is. See WP:COMMONNAME.--regentspark (comment) 12:58, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Still impugned, it was very much relevant where Rosogolla originated and also it's most common name is Rosogolla and not Rasgulla (established if the desert's popularity is statistically considered, and not decided by the authority). The concluding part of the move request reads, 'Rosogolla is the formal, original, familiar and most common name of this dessert.'

So that the feature name Rasgulla improperly accepted and established as final name, instead of this editor's endeavour to rename the desert's original name Rosogolla, the entire biased edits of the current feature content Rasgulla too has been accepted and upheld by those prejudiced administrators rejecting this editor's creation of new feature named Rosogolla or his endeavour in renaming the page Rasgulla as Rosogolla. A through study of the edit history of the feature Rasgulla, and also the feature Rosogolla, would reflect what is true and correct statements or what is impugned.

The Wikipedia appears to run by its guidelines and rules, and obviously not by the authority of those authoritative administrators relevant. Such an authoritative rule neither healthy for Wikipedia nor likely to work in the long run, this is something that can be compared with religious belief and scientific acceptance, the editor endeavoured scientific throughout his entire endeavours in this context.

Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 13:42, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

@Snthakur: who are the "authoritative administrators relevant"? And yes, we have our own guidelines and rules. And no, you are wrong about the GI which is only for "Banglar Rasogolla", see below. Doug Weller talk 14:44, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Also, the GI Registry office has clarified that it has not settled the debate on the sweet's origin, or rejected Odisha's claim as reported by some media outlets. Odisha is free to apply for a GI tag for its own variation. See "Sweet War: This GI tag is for Banglar Rosogolla, it is not about the origin". utcursch | talk 15:00, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

GI decision is more specific - it is only for "Banglar Rasogolla" as originally requested and mentioned in the lead.

Application Number 533

Geographical Indications Banglar Rasogolla

Status Registered

Applicant Name West Bengal State Food Processing and Horticulture Development corporation Limited

Applicant Address 2nd floor Mayukh Bhavan, DF Block Sector-I,Salt Lake, Kolkata 700 0091 Facilitated by Patent Information Centre, Government of West Bengal, Kolkata, West Bengal, India, 700091

Date of Filing 18/09/2015

Class 30

Goods Food Stuffs

Geographical Area West Bengal

Priority Country India

Journal Number 99

Availability Date 14/07/2017

Certificate Number 303

Certificate Date 14/11/2017

Registration Valid Upto 17/09/2025 Doug Weller talk 14:40, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Redirect created

Anyone searching for Banglar Rasogolla will now reach this article. Doug Weller talk 14:42, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing detailed on the issue and the verdict relevant.

However, establishment of Banglar Rasogolla or the Rasogolla do not make Rasgulla a different desert than the former named. In fact Rasogolla, Banglar Rasogolla and Rasgulla are the names of the same desert, while the name of the desert Rasogolla is most popular and common name.

Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 15:06, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

From the West Bengal government, which applied for the GI status: "There is no conflict with Odisha. What we want is to protect the identity of our Rasogolla. Their product is different from ours both in colour, texture, taste, juice content and method of manufacturing." utcursch | talk 15:52, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2017

Under Sections Variations, Please change caption Rasgullas to Rosogollas where there is bengali reference. specifically first and sixth image. Ansuman28 (talk) 20:50, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

 Note: In the article I saw the first reference given to Bengali under the section 'names' is Roshogolla and you now say Rosogollas (please note the difference). This articles from history page and this talk seems to be controversial on these names. Please don't make new request again until you can provide 3 or more reliable sources that support the name you want be used  — Ammarpad (talk) 11:29, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Please change Rasgulla to 'Rosogolla' under the section "Variations" and wherever relevant.

@Ansuman28 is very correct in his representation and identifying 'Rosogollas' under the section "Variations" in the article.

That the 'Rosogollas' should not be identified or called Rasgullas, rather it should be given proper name as per the reflexion in the GI status of "Banglar Rasogolla" as it is not Rasgulla. Besides the reasons, the "Banglar Rasogolla" commonly known as, and called Rosogolla, Rossogolla or Roshogolla, is different in colour, texture, taste, juice content and manufacturing process than the same of Rasgulla in whatever form. (The Bengalis tend to pronounce the dental sa as palatal sha and the sound a as o).

In the entire proceedings before the Intellectual Property India there is not a single mentioning of Rasgulla but Rosogolla and Rossogolla, legally establishing Banglar Rasogolla different than Rasgulla as we know it. Besides that, the names Banglar Rasogolla, Rosogolla, Rossogolla or Roshogolla are from Bengali origin, while Rasgulla is from Hindi origin, as such intellectual property right awarded to Banglar Rasogolla protects it from misrepresentation by Pahala rasgulla, Khiramohana or any such desserts under the name Rasgulla. Banglar Rasogolla, also called Rosogolla, Rossogolla and Roshogolla, is very different than the dessert Rasgulla as a whole in colour, texture, taste, juice content and manufacturing process.

Therefore, Rosogollas must be identified and represented as Rosogollas and not as Rasgulla.

Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 16:10, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

•  Not done None of this is convincing and has already been addressed on the talk page. --regentspark (comment) 16:41, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

The remarks of rejection, "none of this is convincing" is questionable, requires competent and impartial intervention.

Present content of the Wikipedia article Rasgulla does not commensurate to an encyclopedic nature; instead of so long endeavours by many editors and administrators, said article more looks like a text fighting, so what went wrong with it?

Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 18:23, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 May 2018

Template:Culture of West Bengal Category:Geographical Indications in West Bengal বাক্যবাগীশ (talk) 07:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Seeing that this edit request is part and parcel of a larger move by a single editor to place the same template across a wide range of pages, is something which does not inspire confidence in approving this edit request. I may be paranoid, but looking at the talk page here and the back and forth over the name of a dessert, makes me believe I may not be. My guess is, if this template is going to be added, it will only come after a long, long, discussion. .spintendo⋅⋅) 12:53, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

But the category- geographical indications of West Bengal is very needed. After a long long debate, West Bengal won the GI tag. So the Category is very needed. বাক্যবাগীশ (talk) 17:45, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Not sure what geographical indications means. Pinging @Dwaipayanc and Shyamsunder: for input.--regentspark (comment) 18:04, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

@RegentsPark: As the article says, "the GI Registry clarified that the tag was only for "Banglar Rasogolla", and should not be seen as a decision on the sweet's origin" - in other words, it was for a variant. Doug Weller talk 18:37, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks @Doug Weller:. I guess that means that the we shouldn't add West Bengal as a geographical indication for this product. Sorry বাক্যবাগীশ.--regentspark (comment) 23:29, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

GI certificate is nothing but the proved report of any thing, like any industrial thing. GI of Rasagolla proved that the origin of Rasagolla is in West Bengal. And lastly, the Category Category: Geographical Indications in West Bengal is made in wikipedia to listed the GI registred article of West Bengal. So, plese, it is my earnest request. Plese add the Category.বাক্যবাগীশ (talk) 22:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

No, because it doesn't say that. Why do you maintain it does? It says a variant is. Doug Weller talk 05:11, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

So, is Banglar Rasogolla can be a separate wikipedia article? বাক্যবাগীশ (talk) 07:04, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Banglar Rasogolla

This is a pov fork, note the statement about Rasgulla not being as popular as the Banglar variety Doug Weller talk 13:28, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm inclined to think that once an item has received Geographical indication status, then it would deserve its own article. Wording in the article is a different issue. Hzh (talk) 14:44, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2019

Please it is 'Rasogolla' and not some funny Rasgulla. Please rename the article name Mukulchau (talk) 04:54, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves. DannyS712 (talk) 18:30, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2019

Change the article name from Rasgulla to Rosogolla Souvik d (talk) 04:07, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves.

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. Willbb234 (talk) 09:13, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2019

Rasgulla is not a natively used word in the Indian states of Odisha or West Bengal. The primary name should be changed to Rosogolla. We shouldn't corrupt the information. Arnab.dc (talk) 05:19, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Please see WP:COMMONNAME. This is not Bengali or Odia Wikipedia. In English, the most common name of the dish is Rasgulla. utcursch | talk 15:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2019

Please change Baghbazar to Shobhabazar 183.82.22.236 (talk) 07:32, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

 Not done –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 14:13, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Bengali Sweets.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:53, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Spacing and grammar error

Hello, in “region or state” in the infobox, there is spacing and grammar issues. It is currently “Odisha West Bengal , and Bangladesh” - there is too much space between Odisha and West Bengal, and a comma is missing, and there is an extra space after West Bengal and the comma. Please fix. It should be: Odisha, West Bengal, and Bangladesh 2600:1001:B023:6E9D:75C0:6518:67B3:7B1F (talk) 05:13, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: can you help? 2600:1001:B004:370B:16:DFD8:A274:18D3 (talk) 12:18, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:25, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Add to alternative names

As this dish can be found also in pakistan as a popular dessert called "rasgulla", would it be logical to add it to the alternative name list in this article? Bhangsta (talk) 05:16, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Rajbhog - sweet.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:33, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

A highly dubious/fabricated statement being associated with K.T Achaya

The dubious statement in the article reads

'According to food historians K. T. Achaya and Chitra Banerji, there are no references to cheese (including chhena) in India before the 17th century. The milk-based sweets were mainly made up of khoa, before the Portuguese influence led to introduction of cheese-based sweets. Therefore, the possibility of a cheese-based dish being offered at Jagannath Temple in the 12th century is highly unlikely.[32]'

The specific text from the cited work has not been mentioned but K.T Achaya himself in his book, Indian Food: A Historical Companion mentions a cheese/chenna based dessert very similar to bengali sweets preparation in manasollasa written by 12th century south Indian chalukiyan king someshwara.

For the making of what is today called chhana, Manasollasa, the 12th century Sanskrit text recommends the addition of a sour substance (even sour curds from a previous operation) to boiled milk, after which the precipitate was separated, the cheese then mixed with rice flour and shaped into various balls, and then deep-fried to make sweets. Zombie gunner (talk) 17:25, 23 July 2021 (UTC)