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- 1 Regarding alleged Content forks
- 2 Page Move Request
- 3 Requested move 14 August 2015
- 4 The Syrupy Sweets in a nutshell. - A fact.
- 5 Forked content
- 6 Balance
- 7 Two articles for same the same sweet?
- 8 Moving Article Rasgulla → Rosogolla would benefit the wider community.
- 9 Names Rasgulla, Rosogolla & Indian diaspora Bangladesh redefined.
- 10 Disruptive editor
- 11 Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2015
- 12 Page name change
- 13 "Rosogolla originated in West Bengal, rule GI authorities, finally rejecting Odisha's claim on its origin."
- 14 GI decision is more specific - it is only for "Banglar Rasogolla" as originally requested and mentioned in the lead.
- 15 Redirect created
- 16 Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2017
- 17 Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 May 2018
Regarding alleged Content forks
(1) You should not have deleted the article Rosogolla immediately, and before giving an opportunity to the editor of the article concerned to be heard. This is not a reasonable act; an administrator should do without consensus. Indeed your act is unreasonable.
(2) Reasonably, The question of content forks applies when the main article itself is perfect in nature, however, in the instant case the main article Rasgulla is not perfect in nomenclature, for the reasons stated below.
(3) Rasgulla is a colloquial name, mostly called by the other language speaking Indians. The formal name of the desert is Rosogolla as per the dictionary and other reliable books - those I have referred in the deleted article Rosogolla in question. Unfortunately, the main article should have named Rosogolla but it is representing an imperfect, colloquial name, for the obvious reasons.
(4) However, to avoid impugned disputes with some biased editors or administrators of the article Rasgulla, the Article Rosogolla was created to represent its formal name. The article should have stayed in Wikipedia but you have arbitrarily deleted it, that too without a prior discussion or providing a notice in support of your probable deletion.
(5) Therefore, considering the above stated fact and circumstances, please address the above stated issues (1) to (4) so that the article Rasgulla could be enriched in quality and perfection.
A reasonable and consensual reply from you shall enable me to decide further course of action regarding this.
- In addition to that:-
- (i) There is no question of creating duplicate forks or I have no intention to create one knowingly.
- (ii) The essence of my above statements is that since the other article Rasgulla is a colloquial name, against the formal named Rosogolla (deleted/protected), hence the content of the formal name Rosogolla be merged with the colloquial named Rasgulla, thereafter, Rasgulla be renamed with its formal name Rosogolla. But since the article Rosogolla protected, I cannot retrieve its content and the above proposal requires your cooperation.
- (iii) There is another option, renaming the Article Rasgulla by its formal name Rosogolla, then update the page content with the content of Rosogolla so protected. However, though I can rename the page in question but history of the page needs to be merged with the proposed page to be renamed but doing this is not within my reach. So I need your cooperation in the desired manner.
- (iv) Following, I am providing verifiable references in support of my statement, why the name Rosogolla is formal, establishing the Rasgulla as colloquial or not a formal name. A fact is a fact and none can deny it, reasonably formal name shall survive.
- rasa+gōllā = রস+গোল্লা (Rosogolla)  - as per Bengali Language dictionaries only, (the Bengalies tend to pronounce the dental sa as palatal sha and the sound a as o). However, no other languages Indian dictionaries mention the word gōllā meaning a globular sweetmeat (রসগোল্লা, কাঁচাগোল্লা).
- রস [rasa] = a liquid solution of anything hard (চিনির রস); a syrup; juice; URL to see http://www.ovidhan.org/b2b/রস
- গোল্লা [gōllā] = a globular sweetmeat (রসগোল্লা, কাঁচাগোল্লা); URL to see http://www.ovidhan.org/b2b/গোল্লা
- Written in English Language the sweet spelt as Rosogolla,    (spelt রসগোল্লা written in Bengali Language).
- First of all, if you want to change an article's name, you should request a move instead of creating a new article on the same topic.
- Secondly, there is no such thing as a "formal" name of the dish. The name "Rasgulla" is actually present in the Oxford dictionary, which has no entry for "rosogolla". The dictionary reference cited by you in your fork (Collins) is a user submission.
- Different works use different spellings of the dish. Even some of the ones cited by you in your forked article used spellings other than "rosogolla". In Bengali sources and works based on them, the English approximations of the Bengali pronunciation ("rosogolla", "rossogolla" or "roshogolla") are common. In Odiya sources, "Rasagola" or "Rasagolla" are found. Other sources may use one of these spellings or "Rasgulla".
- Going by Google Scholar, Books and News results, "Rasgulla" is by far, the most common of the spellings.
- Moving the article to "rosogolla" will result in an unnecessary Bengali-vs-Odiya troll fest, considering the fact that people of Odisha had celebrated "Rasagola Dibasa" very recently. utcursch | talk 18:54, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Page Move Request
To whom it may concern:
As per the following recommendation, available at the page URL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Rosogolla_discussion I am requesting a page move of the article Rasgulla to the article page Rosogolla, the reasons for this already discussed in the above said page URL.
- Volunteer note: Snthakur, the solution to the issue is as follows;
- Request a page move on the talk page of the concerned article. We cannot have two articles on the same subject.
- It may succeed or it may not. In any case, for your content to be restored, you can ask the deleting admin SpacemanSpiff. (P.S. The content won't be restored to the namespace rather, to your sandbox or pages like this Talk:Rasgulla/forked content).
- After which you can manually add the contents to the article. If someone opposes, discuss with them in the article's talk page.
Requested move 14 August 2015
|This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 23 August 2015. The result of the move review was endorsed.|
The Syrupy Sweets in a nutshell. - A fact.
- Khiramohana or, Kheer Mohan is a creamish sweet popular & invented in Odisha since the Jagannath Temple, Puri came into existence. The sweet, offered to the goddess Lakshmi during the Rath Yatra of the temple. Now, the sweet is though made of chhena and cooked in sugar syrup but there is no concrete evidence that chhena, which we know today, existed at the time of the sweet's invention. It is very unlikely of its existence then.
- Pahala Rasgulla, the descendant and an alternative name of Khiramohana , is a yellowish brown, crumbly, syrupy sweet popular & available only in Pahala region of Odisha.
- Rosogolla is a light spongy white ball of chhana stewed in sugar syrup (rasa). The form of Rosogolla that we know today is different from Khiramohana of Odisha in various aspects. Evidenly, Nobin Chandra Das of Kolkata, West Bengal, discovered the sweet. Its alternative names are Rossogolla, Rasagolla & Roshogolla, and its variations are Kamala Bhog, Raj Bhog, Roso Malai etc. The name of the sweet is anglicize to Rasgulla, after many non-Bengali speaking Indians started calling it by this name.
- NB: Kheer in Kheer Mohan, suggests a condensed milk pudding, is not chhena.
Khiramohan - Khira is milk in Odia and it is not a milk pudding. Kheeri is a milk pudding invented in the same temple town of Puri. It is highly recommended for you to study Odia and then comeback and write essays here. Khiramohan is dedicated to the round shape of the Lord. Here Khira also means white. The Khiramohan is white in color unlike the Pahala Rasagulla and Salepur Rasagulla which are creamish in color. The Chappan bhog also uses 2 other chhena sweets in Sakala Dhupa - Chhena Khai and Rasabali which establishes the fact that Chhena is used in other temple offerings. Puri temple cuisine has not been altered since it's inception. I think you should strike down the concrete evidence argument after this. And why there is no concrete evidence of Nobin Chandra Das's invention? Why don't you research on finding a concrete evidence rather than objecting to the fact of Puri Temple tradition. Apply reverse logic and find out how Rasagolla was borrowed from Khiramohan and probably you would get the answer. There is no foreign object(not native to Odisha) is offered to the Lord. This is the proof that Rasagulla or Chenna based sweets were in vogue since centuries in Odisha. For the record Rasamalai is known as rasamalai all around India and "Roso" is just a pronunciation and not the original word. Puri, Bhubaneswar, Gajapati, Sambhala, Kosala where ancient places of culture, food, language, art and traditions are very different from neighboring kingdoms and states. The only glorious period in the history of Bengal was the rule of Shashanka and it was only for 4 decades. Bengal was either rules by Kings of Magadha or Kalinga. Is it your ignorance or your prejudice that is a problem here? I am amazed by your interpretations of odia languages without knowing a bit of Odia.Arjya2002 (talk) 05:03, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
I have restored the forked article within the talk space of this article per request, at Talk:Rasgulla/forked content. Note that it can be used for reference purposes for discussion and to establish consensus and that is what I'm restoring it for. It is not meant as an endorsement for the content or as a replacement for the existing article, both of which I have no position on, just an uninvolved admin action. —SpacemanSpiff 13:52, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
- Above information noted.
As of now the article is heavily biased towards the bengali view which is inappropriate. The original article was balanced. There is no clear documentation available on NC Das invention validity. Whereas there is documentary evidence of Rasagulla in Pahala and Puri. In the last for lines of the Odia claim section we shouldn't put the bengali view. Odia claim should be only Odia and Bengali view should be only bengali. Presently it is a mix up to impress on the Bengali claim. Suggesting a change to the editors --22.214.171.124 (talk) 23:08, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
- The section about the Odiya claim is the best place for the arguments against that claim. It provides the readers proper context. The Bengali section also includes the line "according to another theory, he modified the traditional Odisha rasgulla recipe". It also includes a paragraph on the theory that Nobin Chandra Das did not invent the sponge rasgulla recipe. If you have something more to add, feel free to do so with a source. The article looks fairly balanced and neutral to me. utcursch | talk 04:32, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
What is the basis of the claim? The word Rasagola or Rasgulla is called Rosogolla in Bengali. Just like Durga is called Durgo and Ajay is called Ajoy. It is just the pronunciation and usage local to Bengal.
The person argues that KT Achaya and Chitrita Banerjee say milk curlding was a taboo till 19th century. Where is the proof to that? These are mere conjectures. Chitrita Banerjee is a cook book writer and not a historian. She only writes on Bengali cuisine and has little knowledge of food habits from India or elsewere. She only writes Bengali recipes and food habits. Same is KT Achaya. He is not a food historian but a food scientist. A food chemist or a scientist work on food processing and technologies and not cuisine and food habits. Historians don't research on food and it is not a serious line of study. It is a mere hobby.
The only credible research on Rasagulla was done by historian J Padhi and C Mahapatra who read the temple chronicle Madala Panji and have established that there atleast 600 years of history of Rasagulla in Puri. Prof. Utpal RayChaudhuri or Jadavpur University also says that Rasagolla was invented in 13th Century in temple town of Puri. The Khiramohan means White Eyes - dedicated to the eyes of Sri Jagannath which is round in shape. Khiramohan is not creamish in color. It is white like "Khira" which means milk. To understand the usage of words in Odia is difficult. One word can have different meaning. Like mansa which means meat and it also means pulses. The Jagannath Temple chronicles are written in sanskritised Odia and Telegu and here Khira means white in color dedicated to the white round eyes of the Lord.
Milk curdling is an ancient Odia technique. This was developed by the Jainas of Odisha. Odisha was ruled by Jain kings since 2nd Century BC until the Somavamshis came. Being a tropical country milk has very less life and it curdles naturally due to temperature so the Jains started milk curdling by whey. Chenna is in vogue in Odisha since ancient times and atleast few centuries before it went to Bengal. The proof is the presence of two other Chenna based sweet in Chappan Bhog of Puri Temple - Rasabali and Chenna Khai. Chenna is a very colloquial term in Puri itself. Everyone knows the temple cuisine has no outside influence since 9 centuries. Rasagola is offered only during Niladri Bije and it is an annual ritual. But rest all days Rasabali and Chenna Khai is offered. Milk based products are very native to Puri. The Rabari and Kheer are also invented in Puri. The Odias call it Kheeri and the Bengalis call it Payas - does that mean Kheeri and Payas are not same? There has to be some logic behind any argument and our friend has deleted previous content of the "Talk" page which established the fact with accurate evidences. Arjya2002 (talk) 04:24, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Two articles for same the same sweet?
I am confused, and there is a question in my mind about neutrality of the administrator and editors of the article Rasgulla that the article Rosogolla was deleted, (refer Talk:Rosogolla), by the administrator SpacemanSpiff and supported by the administrator editor utcursch | talk of the article Rasgulla on the grounds “two article for the same desert cannot be there in Wikipedia here, However, said deleting administrator intentionally ignored to keep the article Khira Mohana even when the article [[Rusgulla} establishes itself for the same sweet. Is not it a biased act of the persons concerned?
- Pinging involved (Editor did not ping) editors. @SpacemanSpiff and Utcursch:. Regards—☮JAaron95 Talk 15:20, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
I thank your for your above suggestion and it is noted.
Since you have used the word 'probably' that allows me around 50% chance in my favour. I think my reply to utcursch below along with perusal of stated reason might increase the said percentage above 50% in my favour. Thanks
- SpacemanSpiff (who deleted your Rosogolla article) probably did not come across Khiramohana article. I removed the image of Rasgulla from that page, arguing that it is not same as the modern rasgulla (the references mentioned in the Rasgulla article say that Khiramohana was a precursor of Rasgulla, and later evolved into the Pahala rasgulla).
- That said, I don't see any unique content in the article Khiramohana, and it should probably be redirected to this article, especially since you have indicated that you intended to create it as a fork of this article. utcursch | talk 16:28, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Since, SpacemanSpiff last message to me that I have seen earlier today, has expressed his displeasure and about my disrupting behaviour. So I have decided to let him feel free and relaxed, since then I am trying to restraint myself in coming to Wikipedia, though I am keeping a close watch on all the Wikipedia emails. However, I am supposed to answer questions, for clear mutual understandings, so I am replying this.
I would like to mention that the above statement, made by me, is a conclusive one that does not show the reasons for coming in the same. However, after going through the entire reasons available above here under heading "Why Odisha’s Rasgulla and Khiramohana are same," one may be able to better understand why I have come to this conclusive statement.
It is necessary to mention here that both the articles Khiramohana and Rosogolla were created by me on the same date, and during their creation I have some points in my minds in favour of their creation. So I am not new to any of these articles but aware of them considerably. I have also included "citation needed tag" on Khiramohana article. Both of them were created by me on same grounds and standings - those I considered reasonable.
However, I know it very well that both Khiramohana and Rosogolla articles stood good chance of survival (they really are) but Rosogolla is deleted while not Khiramohana. This is very questionable. To understand my view, It is necessary to consider stated reasons above.
Finally, irrespective of these articles outcome (that depends on application of certain principle) none, but I have one thing to expect from Wikipedia - A reasonable consideration.
Wikipedia is not a dictionary but an encyclopedia, therefore, the content and title name of an article there, necessarily needs to be encyclopedic, not as in the case of dictionaries. The naming of the sweet cannot straightforwardly choose as Rasgulla. However, the naming in Wikipedia appears to be followed only the Oxford dictionaries, as an anglicize name loaned from a foreign country. But the name obviously misspelled there, as the dictionary mentions rasgullā originates in Hindi – so the name to be disambiguated to avoid confusion with Rosogolla for the reasons many reliable English-language sources mentions the sweet name Rosogolla, The Oxford Companion to Sugar and Sweets describes Rosogolla is primarily associated with West Bengal, then Bengal in British India. The fact establishes the origin of the sweet is in Bengal - a part of greater India, not Hindi, in Bengal the sweet is called Rosogolla since its initial usage.
Nevertheless, here rises a question, whether Wikipedia must stick to its current naming when the naming is misleading or inaccurate.
As per description of Wikipedia, the naming the sweet should be seen as goals, not as rules. Whereas, considering the deleted article Rosogolla's naturalness, consistency, prevalence in many reliable English-language sources, as well as its usage around 250 million Bengali people in Bangladesh, West Bengal, other states in India and world over, the name Rosogolla has come into majority use. The Oxford Companion to Sugar and Sweets highlights Rosogolla, and describes often-spelled Rasgulla, it is a very new edition published in the United Kingdom and the US. The name Rosogolla has been preferred in several publications in United Kingdom and the US. Some of these books are (1) Milk - Beyond the Dairy: Proceedings of the Oxford Symposium on Food... by Harlan Walke, Page 58. (2) Strategic Management: Formulation, Implementation and Control, by PEARCE, Page 179. (3) Food Culture in India, by Colleen Taylor Sen.
Besides the above, there are too many reliable English sources available in the publications in the United Kingdom and the US those mention the sweet as Rosogolla. A confusing entry in the Oxford dictionaries cannot really overlook Rosogolla’s merit as a title name from the reliable English-language sources.
I would think that the name should of the article should be Roshogolla, as is commonly used where this dish is primarily consumed in Bengal and Odisha, to reflect the reality rather than an erroneous colonial-era Oxford dictionary Romanization. Such debates over romanization of names make one remember why Kolkata had to officially change it's name to Kolkata before dictionaries worldwide took notice and changed the listing from Calcutta. Unfortunately Roshogolla is not a municipal body or any other official authority, but the official authorities in the state of West Bengal too amply reflect the reality in always calling it Roshogolla rather than some fictitious colonial Rasgulla. As can be noticed in numerous credible news articles of very prominent mainstread media cited in the main Roshogolla article itself.
Names Rasgulla, Rosogolla & Indian diaspora Bangladesh redefined.
Oxford Dictionaries describe rasgulla origin from Hindi rasgullā, from ras 'juice' + gullā 'ball'. The Oxford Companion to Sugar and Sweets By Michael Krondl, Eric Rath, Laura Mason, Geraldine Quinzio, Ursula Heinzelmann. Page 580 describes, "rosogolla, often spelled rasgulla, is a popular Indian ball-shaped sweet prepared from chhana (fresh milk curd) soaked in sugar syrup. These moist treats are common sight as sweet shops across the subcontinent. In India, rosogolla is primarily associated with West Bengal, where it is just one, if perhaps the best known, of numberless chhana-based sweets." Page 359 of the same book describes, "Bengalis - inhabitants of the Indian state of West Bengal and the Republic of Bangladesh - are famous for their love of misti, or sweets, considered the apogee of the Indian sweet maker's art. Most commercial sweets are made from channa; khoa is used mainly as a secondary ingredient".... "The most famous sweets are rosogolla, a light spongy white ball of chhana served in sugar syrup; rajbhog, a giant rosogolla; a dark-colored fried version called ledikini; cham cham, small patties dipped in thick-ended milk and sprinkled with grated khoa; ras malai, khoa and sugar balls floating in cardamom-flavoured cream; and pantua, sausage-shaped spheres fried to a golden brown and dropped in sugar syrup."
Accordingly, the Article has been modified.
Origin of the sweet name.
Origin of the name Rasgulla to be disambiguated to avoid confusion with Rosogolla or Rasagola. Significantly, 254 million Bengali never use the name Rasgulla - the number is above Hindi speaking people even much above the users of the sweet calling it Rasgulla. Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 01:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
- You've been explained this a number of times: Rasgulla is the most popular name in English sources. It doesn't matter if its origin is in Hindi, Bengali, or Japanese. utcursch | talk 01:17, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
- @Snthakur: It appears you're finding it hard to understand, so I'll make it easy for you: http://i.imgur.com/BPzO0wP.png. utcursch | talk 01:40, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Whether biased editing.
Following revisions, and the revisions in between, need to be considered whether any biased editing.
As per suggestions of JamesBWatson 12:52, 19 August 2015 (UTC) and Human3015 04:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC) on my Talk page Snthakur I have made following revision attempts with the 1st edit summary "Redefined - Rasgulla, Rosogolla, Indian diaspora Bangladesh" follows:
→ utcursch undid above, and edits Rasagola → "Rasgulla, also known as Rosogolla (in Bengali) or Rasagola (in Odiya)" & "Bangladesh" (it was acceptable to me)
→ utcursch again undid above, and removes Bangladesh → "Rasgulla in Hindi, known as Rosogolla in Bengali or Rasagola in Odiya" & "South Asian"
→ utcursch again removes Rosogolla, Rasagola including Bangladesh, creates a section "Name'→ The dessert is known as Rosogolla or Roshogolla in Bengali and Rasagola in Odiya .....
Please suggest so as to what shall I do now?
- Rasgulla Move Review here Wikipedia:Move_review/Log/2015_August 126.96.36.199 (talk) 11:29, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Snthakur: If an editor is disruptive, consider discussing the issue with him/her. If the editor doesn't comply (or) continues his/her disruptive behavior, consider reporting them at WP:AN/I. Before reporting them, make sure you've kept yourself clean. There are instances in which ones report backfire on themselves. Hope that helps. Regards—☮JAaron95 Talk 11:20, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
- Leaving this for Snthakur when he returns: Please read WP:BRD. If you make a change, and someone disagrees with it, you should discuss it on the talk page and not add it back until a consensus is reached.
- Especially in this case, where your obsession with the spelling "Rosogolla" has not been taken well by multiple other editors, you need to stop engaging in revert wars and repetitive comments.
- I gave the reasons for undoing your edit in edit summaries, as well as on your talk page:
- Bangladesh is included in the term "Indian subcontinent", so there is no need to mention it separately. Also, the term "Indian diaspora" does not refer to people of Bangladesh.
- Just because a term originated in Hindi doesn't mean that it's a Hindi term. Oxford English Dictionary is an English dictionary and lists Rasgulla under "British & World English" terms. It literally says on that page that it's an English definition.
- The Bengali Wikipedia article is at রসগোল্লা, the Odiya article is at ରସଗୋଲା -- both of them maintain the same spelling throughout. Similarly, the English Wikipedia article should maintain the same spelling throughout for consistency. The dish has several variant spellings in English, and mentioning them all in the lead section creates clutter. And that spelling is the one that is most common in English language (this has been discussed to death in your failed move request, so I'm not going to repeat those arguments again).
- utcursch | talk 14:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2015
|This edit request has been answered. Set the |
Dear Madam / sir, to support rasgola / Kheera Mohan as Orissa dish below are points. 1. Chenna / chees is not only invented by portugees, it has invented by various places in world. 2. In orssa there are two verieties of chees 1. kheera Chenna 2. dahi chenna and both are part of oriya local festivals. 3. the Boiling process of Rasgola / Kheera Mohan is very likely from Orsaa as there are so many recipe are done by Boilling process and still oriya people do it on Oriya parba/festivals example: water boiled Mandaa peetha(amny festivals) and paani gaintha(offered during deepabali) 4. No foreign products are offered in jagannath temple like Patoes(bilati Alu, Tamatoes(bilati baigana) and so many.The offering process is too strict in puri that it is unlikely might have introduced by any one from bengal. 5. Most cook from orissa doing job in rich bengoli house.who might spread rasgola in bengal. 6. Most likely this testy Rasgola inveted by Orissa , but due to lack of publishity , powerfull benolis made it on their name. 7. Bengoli have tried to supress Oriya as language,so they might have renamed Kheera mohan / Rasa Golaa as rasgulla. 8. Chhapan Bhoga (56 items of Puri) belongs to lord jagganath. thats why rasgola which is not in 56 items is offered to Maha Laxmi. 9. perishible Rasgola with semolina invented in orissa, then that is improved to keep for more days, Bengoli people made is spongy with out semolina. 10. chenna gaja also another version of rasgola which is most likely from orissa 11. In Kendra para, Chhatia batta, Lord jagannath is offered Rasaa Bali, another version of rasgola.which is very old temple of Orissa. 12. some times powerfull established people put their name or seal on good product, as america was trying to make paitent on turmeric and neem.simillarly Bengolis established this rasgola as their as they were more power full due to British rule.
other supporting truths
13. simmilarly they more speak about Neta ji subash chandra bose as bengoli, who is an Oriya(bengoli origin not bengoli as he born and brought up in cuttack) from Cuttack, many people do not know. 14. Kalpana chawala might be Indian origin, but she is American as she born and brought up in USA. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 06:19, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up each one of your 14 requests, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 08:00, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
″Rashogolla, like the most sweets in India will always and forever be a Bengali thing. Remember that Bengali households still are known for their amazing food culture and this fact is known world-wide :)
is this the only piece of heritage that you can show off to the world? Seriously there are better things to latch onto
chaitanna mahaprabhu did come from GEOGRAPHICAL ORISSA but back then there was no orissa, are we forgetting this?
and your dear lord ASHOKA the great wasn’t your hero too until he defeated your so called “kalinga empire”. he was a scavenger of kalinga and not a king your bali, sumatra etc “J(y)ATRAS” came form LORD ASHOKA’S INVASION of your pillage state.
tanSEN was bengali my dear friend, so were a lot of other people! want to see the entire list as it stands today? so was subash chandra bose and sri aurobindo :)
and i can name a million others and i am proud to say our greateness can be exerted beyond our national borders. we are the fifth largest speakers!
these guys are not just making India proud but half the world knows about these guys dude :)
c’mon we bengalis have won pretty much every award in the world stage you name it we have it and we are damn proud of what we have :)
its the only country in the world which took rebellion because it couldn’t speak its mother tongue and it won! and won so hard that the UN had to adopt that day as the international language day, which celebrates languages from all over the world.
did you know that the FAMOUS SEARS TOWER is architectured by another bengali?″
KAMONASISH AAYUSH MAZUMDAR
MBA, Institute of Management Technology, Ghaziabad
Page name change
To reflect reality cited in links embedded in page itself, I propose that the name of this page be changed to either Roshogolla (Bengali) or Rosgola (Odia), since nowhere where this dessert is most commonly consumed, and was created, in Bengal and in Odisha, is it popularly called Rasgulla. By any stretch of imagination.
Relevant note should also be added in the page mentioning that in the North Indian languages of Hindi/Urdu as used in the Northern parts of India/Pakistan, the name for the same dish is Rasgulla.
I have Requested the page move on 14 August 2015 Rasgulla → Rosogolla and prior to that and to this move request I have also given verifiable reasons in support of my submission said including others, the entire edit history of this page and other relevant pages created by this editor reflect/support in favour of above statements and now this editor hopes those declining administrators concerned now probably understand how prejudiced they were rejecting this editor's all relevant edits improperly, for the reason the GI Authorities now rule Rosogolla originated in West Bengal rejecting Odisha claim over its origin. Refer Rosogolla originated in West Bengal, rule GI authorities, rejecting Odisha claim
[| The page move requested on 14 August 2015] indicates the following, but prejudicial rejected.
- It doesn't matter where rasgulla/rosogolla originated. What matters is what its common name is. See WP:COMMONNAME.--regentspark (comment) 12:58, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Still impugned, it was very much relevant where Rosogolla originated and also it's most common name is Rosogolla and not Rasgulla (established if the desert's popularity is statistically considered, and not decided by the authority). The concluding part of the move request reads, 'Rosogolla is the formal, original, familiar and most common name of this dessert.'
So that the feature name Rasgulla improperly accepted and established as final name, instead of this editor's endeavour to rename the desert's original name Rosogolla, the entire biased edits of the current feature content Rasgulla too has been accepted and upheld by those prejudiced administrators rejecting this editor's creation of new feature named Rosogolla or his endeavour in renaming the page Rasgulla as Rosogolla. A through study of the edit history of the feature Rasgulla, and also the feature Rosogolla, would reflect what is true and correct statements or what is impugned.
The Wikipedia appears to run by its guidelines and rules, and obviously not by the authority of those authoritative administrators relevant. Such an authoritative rule neither healthy for Wikipedia nor likely to work in the long run, this is something that can be compared with religious belief and scientific acceptance, the editor endeavoured scientific throughout his entire endeavours in this context.
- @Snthakur: who are the "authoritative administrators relevant"? And yes, we have our own guidelines and rules. And no, you are wrong about the GI which is only for "Banglar Rasogolla", see below. Doug Weller talk 14:44, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
- Also, the GI Registry office has clarified that it has not settled the debate on the sweet's origin, or rejected Odisha's claim as reported by some media outlets. Odisha is free to apply for a GI tag for its own variation. See "Sweet War: This GI tag is for Banglar Rosogolla, it is not about the origin". utcursch | talk 15:00, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
GI decision is more specific - it is only for "Banglar Rasogolla" as originally requested and mentioned in the lead.
Application Number 533
Geographical Indications Banglar Rasogolla
Applicant Name West Bengal State Food Processing and Horticulture Development corporation Limited
Applicant Address 2nd floor Mayukh Bhavan, DF Block Sector-I,Salt Lake, Kolkata 700 0091 Facilitated by Patent Information Centre, Government of West Bengal, Kolkata, West Bengal, India, 700091
Date of Filing 18/09/2015
Goods Food Stuffs
Geographical Area West Bengal
Priority Country India
Journal Number 99
Availability Date 14/07/2017
Certificate Number 303
Certificate Date 14/11/2017
- Thanks for sharing detailed on the issue and the verdict relevant.
- However, establishment of Banglar Rasogolla or the Rasogolla do not make Rasgulla a different desert than the former named. In fact Rasogolla, Banglar Rasogolla and Rasgulla are the names of the same desert, while the name of the desert Rasogolla is most popular and common name.
- Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 15:06, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
- From the West Bengal government, which applied for the GI status: "There is no conflict with Odisha. What we want is to protect the identity of our Rasogolla. Their product is different from ours both in colour, texture, taste, juice content and method of manufacturing." utcursch | talk 15:52, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2017
|This edit request has been answered. Set the |
- Note: In the article I saw the first reference given to Bengali under the section 'names' is Roshogolla and you now say Rosogollas (please note the difference). This articles from history page and this talk seems to be controversial on these names. Please don't make new request again until you can provide 3 or more reliable sources that support the name you want be used — Ammarpad (talk) 11:29, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
- Please change Rasgulla to 'Rosogolla' under the section "Variations" and wherever relevant.
- @Ansuman28 is very correct in his representation and identifying 'Rosogollas' under the section "Variations" in the article.
- That the 'Rosogollas' should not be identified or called Rasgullas, rather it should be given proper name as per the reflexion in the GI status of "Banglar Rasogolla" as it is not Rasgulla. Besides the reasons, the "Banglar Rasogolla" commonly known as, and called Rosogolla, Rossogolla or Roshogolla, is different in colour, texture, taste, juice content and manufacturing process than the same of Rasgulla in whatever form. (The Bengalis tend to pronounce the dental sa as palatal sha and the sound a as o).
- In the entire proceedings before the Intellectual Property India  there is not a single mentioning of Rasgulla but Rosogolla and Rossogolla, legally establishing Banglar Rasogolla different than Rasgulla as we know it. Besides that, the names Banglar Rasogolla, Rosogolla, Rossogolla or Roshogolla are from Bengali origin, while Rasgulla is from Hindi origin, as such intellectual property right awarded to Banglar Rasogolla protects it from misrepresentation by Pahala rasgulla, Khiramohana or any such desserts under the name Rasgulla. Banglar Rasogolla, also called Rosogolla, Rossogolla and Roshogolla, is very different than the dessert Rasgulla as a whole in colour, texture, taste, juice content and manufacturing process.
- Therefore, Rosogollas must be identified and represented as Rosogollas and not as Rasgulla.
- Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 16:10, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
- Not done None of this is convincing and has already been addressed on the talk page. --regentspark (comment) 16:41, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
- The remarks of rejection, "none of this is convincing" is questionable, requires competent and impartial intervention.
- Present content of the Wikipedia article Rasgulla does not commensurate to an encyclopedic nature; instead of so long endeavours by many editors and administrators, said article more looks like a text fighting, so what went wrong with it?
- Snthakur ( সৌমেন্দ্র নাথ ঠাকুর ) (talk) 18:23, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 May 2018
|This edit request has been answered. Set the |
- Not done: Seeing that this edit request is part and parcel of a larger move by a single editor to place the same template across a wide range of pages, is something which does not inspire confidence in approving this edit request. I may be paranoid, but looking at the talk page here and the back and forth over the name of a dessert, makes me believe I may not be. My guess is, if this template is going to be added, it will only come after a long, long, discussion. 12:53, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
But the category- geographical indications of West Bengal is very needed. After a long long debate, West Bengal won the GI tag. So the Category is very needed. বাক্যবাগীশ (talk) 17:45, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- Not sure what geographical indications means. Pinging @Dwaipayanc and Shyamsunder: for input.--regentspark (comment) 18:04, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- @RegentsPark: As the article says, "the GI Registry clarified that the tag was only for "Banglar Rasogolla", and should not be seen as a decision on the sweet's origin" - in other words, it was for a variant. Doug Weller talk 18:37, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- GI certificate is nothing but the proved report of any thing, like any industrial thing. GI of Rasagolla proved that the origin of Rasagolla is in West Bengal. And lastly, the Category Category: Geographical Indications in West Bengal is made in wikipedia to listed the GI registred article of West Bengal. So, plese, it is my earnest request. Plese add the Category.বাক্যবাগীশ (talk) 22:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- @RegentsPark: As the article says, "the GI Registry clarified that the tag was only for "Banglar Rasogolla", and should not be seen as a decision on the sweet's origin" - in other words, it was for a variant. Doug Weller talk 18:37, 14 May 2018 (UTC)