User talk:Jimbo Wales

Wikipedia.es and Vladimir Putin

As you are a creator, you should know that Wikipedia.es (in Spanish) provides propaganda support and fake news under a supposed "neutrality" in support of Vladimir Putin's military aggression against Ukraine.see --Vicentemovil (talk) 11:56, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

The link you provided doesn't seem to go anywhere, even after fixing the formatting...--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

For Wikipedia, Fidel Castro was not a dictator - "he was a Cuban Marxist lawyer, politician and guerrilla fighter"- but Batista was. Augusto Pinochet Ugarte was "a Chilean military man, politician and dictator" but Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías was "a Venezuelan politician and military man". Xi Jinping, besides being President of China "is a Chinese politician and chemical engineer, who currently serves as General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China" and Nicolás Maduro Moros, besides being President of Venezuela "is a Venezuelan politician, diplomat and trade union leader".

Somalo, Javier (2022-03-05). "Putin, hombre muerto" [Putin, dead man]. Libertad digital (in Spanish). Madrid. Retrieved 2022-03-07.

Other opinions in the same line:

Boyer, Milagros (2021-02-22). "Tres evidencias de cómo Wikipedia oculta atrocidades del socialismo" [Three evidences of how Wikipedia hides socialist atrocities]. Panam post (in Spanish). LA. Retrieved 2022-03-07.

Ferrer, Pablo (2021-03-12). "Más censura en internet: Wikipedia eliminará los genocidios comunistas por considerar que es información "sesgada". O sea, crítico con el comunismo" [More censorship on the Internet: Wikipedia will remove communist genocides as "biased" information. That is, critical of communism]. Hispanidad (in Spanish). Spain. Retrieved 2022-03-07.--Vicentemovil (talk) 17:04, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

This practice reflects the practice in reliable sources. As Sidney Goldberg explained in the Wall Street Journal, "[Webster's New World College Dictionary] can call Hitler the "Nazi dictator of Germany" but Stalin merely the "Soviet premier, general secretary of the Communist party of the U.S.S.R." Mussolini is an "Italian dictator," but Tito is "Yugoslav Communist Party leader, prime minister and president of Yugoslavia." Franco is "dictator of Spain" and Salazar "prime minister and dictator of Portugal," but Mao Tse-tung is "Chinese Communist leader, chairman of the People's Republic of China and of its Communist Party.""[1] It could have to do with the fact that Hitler, Mussolini and Franco were de jure dictators, while Stalin, Tito and Mao were de facto dictators. In any case, the practice pre-dates Putin. TFD (talk) 17:49, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

As much as I detest the Spanish-speaking version of Wikipedia (there are way too many problems with that version to enlist them here, but they can be summarized as 'quantity over quality'), Boyer and Ferrer are talking about our article Mass killings under communist regimes and the respective AFD. Somalo's opinion is still true, though. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 18:07, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Something nice

You may be interested, User:BeenAroundAWhile, who will be 90 years around in April and started editing here when he was 73, just achieved 100,000 edits. 73 seems just about the age that many people may be interested in getting involved in Wikipedia, a vast untapped volunteer demographic of long memories and years of professional writing which BeenAroundAWhile symbolizes. I left him a congrats message for his 100,000 edit and maybe others may enjoy doing so. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:23, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedian arrested

User:Pessimist2006, a prolific editor of the Russian Wikipedia, was arrested earlier today in his residence in Minsk for his contributions to articles about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, as part of an effort to deanonymize and apprehend Wikipedia users in Russia and Belarus who run afoul of the infamous "false information" law in Russia.[2] (in Russian). Russian Wikipedia administrators are currently taking steps at re-anonymizing edits of other threatened users (and generally freaking out). I understand WMF is already informed on this development, however, I don't see any discussions on this topic on enwiki and would like to raise awareness of this here. Global preventive measures may be necessary to at least warn users from Russia and Belarus that they may endanger themselves by making edits that are now "against the law" in Russia.

If I am not mistaken, this is the first case of a Wikipedia user being arrested specifically for their contributions. If so, this is a dark milestone in Wikipedia history. --illythr (talk) 22:17, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't know Russian, so I can't read any of the messages, but I feel really sorry for Pessimist2006. Even if this wasn't the first case, it's still pretty sad. I.hate.spam.mail.here (talk | contributions) 02:26, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

I saw the editing by Pessimist, this user just very carefully analyzed and selected sources, this - practically - was his specialty. Of course, he did not introduce any fakes, on the contrary, he exposed them. This is real persecution just for ordinary work. This is a very dangerous precedent. (P.S. Jimmy, we saw each other when You came to Moscow: my photo, I asked You about Roskomnadzor: The first question on YouTube 29:00.) Lesless (talk) 06:54, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Jimmy, if there was ever any time for you to speak out forcefully about a world historical event that poses a grave threat to the fundamental values of this great project, then this is it. A week ago, the WMF issued a statement saying that it "will not back down" against Russian censorship threats. You have a unique position of moral authority in this matter. You must forcefully denounce Putin's repression of independent reliable sources of information about this war, and especially his arrest of a respected editor of the Russian Wikipedia. Failure to do so endangers the moral underpinning of this two decades long project. Cullen328 (talk) 07:34, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Article in The Verge, 11 March 2022. -- Vysotsky (talk) 10:48, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Clearly as a warning against independent thinking, as the video of his arrest was published by pro-government Telegram channels associated with the security forces. (¨Видео задержания опубликовали провластные телеграм-каналы, связанные с силовиками.¨ (Zerkalo). Vysotsky (talk) 10:54, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

I already stated at this talk page that Wikipedia is jail bait in some countries. You cannot assume that Wikipedia is safe to edit just because it does not do WikiLeaks. Citing Western mainstream media is a crime in many countries. Wikipedians from China, Iran, Belarus, and Russia should be blocked indefinitely, for their own safety. tgeorgescu (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Maybe Wikipedia should appoint a Committee of Public Safety to decide who is allowed to edit... 13:56, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

No, seriously: I have sympathy for them, but risking their lives/liberty for the privilege of citing mainstream media is crazy upon deeper thought. tgeorgescu (talk) 13:59, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

In order to preserve their freedom, we must prevent them from exercising it... AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:06, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

You live in a free country, they live under Oriental despotism. tgeorgescu (talk) 14:09, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

And clearly they shouldn't be allowed to do anything that might make their despots uncomfortable... AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:15, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

As long as Jimmy Wales is not in charge of their country, Wikipedia should be biased for their safety. tgeorgescu (talk) 14:28, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Oriental despotism bad, Alabama despotism good... AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:35, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to the GOP. Opposed to Trumpism: yes, opposed to the GOP: no. Although I don't support the Christian right.

And this is the reason: if the GOP becomes a radical, anti-democratic party, US will have the same fate as Russia. tgeorgescu (talk) 16:26, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

If the US were to undergo the same fate as Russia, would you advocate that Wikipedia block US citizens from contributing for their own safety? AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:36, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Yup, since lone individuals who speak truth to power will always lose from their confrontation with the political police. tgeorgescu (talk) 16:52, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Hence the failure of everyone everywhere to free themselves from despotism... AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:00, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Again: concerns about the safety of Wikipedians come first, concerns about freedom of speech at Wikipedia come second. tgeorgescu (talk) 17:03, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

In which case, I would like to propose you be banned from contributing to Wikipedia, for your own safety. And for everyone else's sanity... AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:08, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

I live in a free country, I have no legal risk from editing Wikipedia. tgeorgescu (talk) 17:11, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

If Wikipedia had physical offices in Russia, and people working there were being arrested and detained for using their offerings as intended, would you advocate keeping those offices open, or would you consider that irresponsible? Le Marteau (talk) 17:18, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

I live in a country wherein charges of libel are dropped by default, and I'm citizen of another country wherein there is no such crime as libel. tgeorgescu (talk) 17:24, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Blackout

BLACKOUT? I was neutral on the SOPA blackout, and have not supported such things like it, but I might support a blackout, now. This kind of thing does seem existential.[3] -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:27, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

No. When Wikipedians are persecuted for being a source of unbiased information, stopping being a source of unbiased information is the worst thing you can do. The Russian censorship agency will have to thank you for your cooperation. --illythr (talk) 18:01, 12 March 2022 (UTC)