User talk:Robert McClenon

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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Of interest?

Indeed. Please see User:Piotrus/Response#1._Lack_of_neutrality - if you haven't, you may find other parts of my rebuttal essay of interest. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:33, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

User:Piotrus - I have looked at portions of your reply, and will read more of it soon. I did not know that Holocaust distortion was a dogwhistle for Holocaust denial. I will leave unchanged what I said, which is that calling any editor any sort of distortionist is a personal attack. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:30, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

I fully agree this term is very slanderious, particularly in this context where it's just a synonym for denier of one of the humankinds biggest, if not THE biggest, tragedies. And if you have any questions about anything related to my Responce, do let me know. Btw, I recently submitted my evidence related to, among other things, using this term, to ArbCom here, which is based on my lenght Response. There will likely be some discussion of this on arbcom's talk pages and analysis, I hope. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:58, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:TTT

Hello, Robert McClenon. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "TTT".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:42, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Well, well, User:Liz, this was different. It appears that what you deleted was not a draft article, but a redirect from a page move/rename that I did, not six months ago, but four years ago. If you, User:Liz, are cleaning up four-year-old dust, thank you, even if it does result in strange messages. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:12, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Disruption. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:23, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
teahouse @Robert McClenon the draft is rejected pls not ask a teahouse 122.52.66.207 (talk) 07:08, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Errors in Draft Corrected.

The reasons because of which my draft was rejected have been corrected. Please have a look. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Babak_(Rababi) ਗਿਆਨੀ ਪੁਰਸ਼ (talk) 01:28, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Sig with false date

Is this what you wanted? SilkTork (talk) 8:08 am, 31 March 2023, Friday (UTC+1)

User:SilkTork - Yes, sort of, but not at 0256 GMT, 2 April. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:56, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

To get a sig without a date type ~~~, and then type in whatever date and time you wish. SilkTork (talk) 03:12, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but a careful observer will realize that I typed it in by hand. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:20, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

AfC related question

Hi Robert. Since you're involved with AfC, I thought you might be able help me with something related to it. What's the protocol for a previously AfC declined draft that has been subsequently improved upon by someone other than the draft's creator? Is it acceptable for someone other than an AfC reviewer to move the draft into the mainspace if they feel it's now ready? I'm not sure whether the creator is coming back since they haven't edited since the first week of December 2022, and their editing was fairly intermittent even before then. I thought about asking the AfC reviewer who declined the draft to take another look at it, but their user talk page states they're semi-retired and are no longer very active. FWIW, I advised the creator to try and flesh the draft out a little more before submitting it for review, but never heard back from them; so, I started doing so myself. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:22, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Marchjuly - My advice is that there are three reasonable ways to do this:

1. Arrange in advance for a reviewer to be ready to approve the draft when you say that you are satisfied that it is ready for article space. Then resubmit the draft, and expect to see it approved.
2. Become an AFC reviewer, while planning to do reviews only rarely. There is no obligation as to how much reviewing a reviewer should do. Then resubmit the draft and approve it.
3. Remove the AFC templates that say not to remove them. The AFC templates say not to remove them because 99% of the time, removing them is done to game the system, but you will be removing them as a valid exercise of Ignore All Rules. Then move the draft into article space. Do not suppress redirect creation. When a draft becomes an article, there should be a redirect from draft space to article space.

Your call. They are all ways to do it. Please do not move the draft into article space without first removing the AFC templates. That leaves annoying cleanup for the AFC reviewers. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:15, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the detailed response Robert. I think part of the the fun of Wikipedia is learning by doing, and I sort of would like the draft's creator to go through the AfC process so they gain a better understanding of things. So, I think I may wait a bit longer to see if the creator comes back. If they don't, then I at least know there are some options to choose from. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:23, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Potential sock

You commented on Draft:William Hanson, which is a duplicate of Draft:William Hanson (Etiquette Expert). There are two seperate WP:SPAs that have mostly kept to only one of the two drafts. Do you think this is something that should be brought to WP:SPI? TipsyElephant (talk) 02:08, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

User:TipsyElephant - SPI has been written. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:50, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

2024 libertarian presidential primaries

I apologise for not getting to you sooner regaurding it. The sudden response out of nowhere came at a bad time when i was not focusing on wikipedia. @25stargeneral

Yes i would like a moderated discussion, however at this time there are more pressing matter for me personally, and while there are issues that 25 star has yet to address with his statements, right now i do not have the time to debate on wikipedia. Dieselkeough (talk) 20:03, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Dieselkeough, User:25stargeneral - If you want moderated discussion, first resume discussion on the article talk page. If discussion is lengthy and inconclusive, you can file a new request for moderated discussion. You can, of course, wait until you both have time to spend on the discussion. During that time, events may change. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I do not want moderated discussion and I already expressed that. I requested page protection at RfPP and got it because of this editor persistently adding poorly-sourced content. That's the end of it for me. 25stargeneral (talk) 23:26, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Discuss at Talk:2024 Libertarian Party presidential primaries Robert McClenon (talk) 03:44, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

collaps Howdy, I apologise for not replying sooner. I have been busy with quite alot of things and have bot found much time for wikipedia or all that it entails. The big debate here is that as a list, the source requirements only need to list that it they have actually applied for the presidency under the libertarian banner. Looking at 2020 Libertarian Party presidential primaries they used a similar system in using the FEC filings as proof to be added to the list. I Beleive that the same system should be used for the 2024 primaries, as the LP nationally does not get coverage, particularly its inside baseball. Notability in the English Wikipedia has made the process of lists such as this clear, that it does not neet to meet the same standards of notability as articles do. As such i beleive that FEC filings are sufficient proof to be added to a list of candidates, but further notability is needed for greater detail on those candidates should a controversy arrive (such as Joe Exotic leaving the 2024 libertarian primaries to join the democrat primaries) Dieselkeough (talk) 00:46, 12 April 2023 (UTC) If you continue to refuse to read actual Wikipedia sourcing policy, you're not going to last long here. We use reliable sources. FEC filings are primary sources that can be submitted by anyone, and there are many joke filings. Someone was literally adding a "time traveler" based on an FEC filing. Please read the RS page I have linked to. You are absolutely incorrect that lists do not have to follow our policy on reliable sourcing, so I know you have not read that policy. Quoting from the policy: The verifiability policy is strictly applied to all material in the mainspace—articles, lists, and sections of articles—without exception. 25stargeneral (talk) 02:59, 12 April 2023 (UTC) User:Dieselkeough, User:25stargeneral - Please discuss at Talk:2024 Libertarian Party presidential primaries. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:42, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Re: Your submission at Articles for creation: National Dong Hwa University College of Science and Engineering (April 14)

Hi, please send this message to User talk:林儀承 as I'm submitting this AFC per VRT request. GY Fan★ 06:39, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Regarding foreign-language support for an article and Draft:Suksan Bunta

Thanks ever so much for the reference to WP:NONENG over at Draft:Suksan Bunta. Indeed, for verifiability of content, non-English sources are clearly acceptable. However, is it clear that non-English / foreign language sources alone are sufficient to support notability per WP:NOTE? Is there policy or widespread acceptance to support an extension of verifiability into notability? Are there many examples of English-language articles surviving AFD where the only references supporting notability are non-English? Any guidance here would be most appreciated. Chumpih ^t 18:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Chumpih - See the fourth bullet of the general notability guideline, which says that the sources need not be in English. I will note in particular that machine translation is available in Google Chrome for online sources. While the use of machine-translation for quotations is discouraged, machine translation should be sufficient for verifying that a source supports the notability claim. So, if the Thai source, computer-translated into English, supports what the article says, that should be enough. If you have any further concerns, you might ask at Village Pump. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that clear policy steer. Most appreciated. Chumpih ^t 20:58, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Brynne Kennedy article

Hello. Responding to your comment regarding heading formatting on this article. Made the same comment on the talk page. Not sure what your comment meant, as the header formatting has the necessary markup and a TOC was generated for the draft article. Please advise. Thanks! Maddydogblues (talk) 17:22, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Maddydogblues - The title is too large. Please size it normally. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:57, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Ok. You did not mention that initially. Simple change, made. Maddydogblues (talk) 18:17, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello again. Is it possible to remove the comment from the draft article now that the correction has been made? Thanks. Maddydogblues (talk) 14:39, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Maddydogblues - Reviewer comments are automatically removed when a draft is accepted. The title was still too large, and I have removed the bold facing from it, and so I am leaving the comment there because I have not verified conclusively that the markup is correct, and checking the markup is never a bad idea. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:44, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thanks again. Maddydogblues (talk) 17:40, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Pellumb Xhufi

Hello, Robert McClenon. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Pellumb Xhufi".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:06, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Liz - Thank you. This time, I really did create the draft. It was a machine-translation of his Albanian Wikipedia article, when I was trying to deal with a dispute about whether Xhufi is a reliable source. I am satisfied to see that draft go away because maybe that controversy has gone away for a little while. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:45, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

New Page Patrol – May 2023 Backlog Drive

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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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Draft Submit Comment

Is there a way to explain a submersion of a draft. The reason being is that the draft I submitted would replace the Funimation page as there are drafts of Crunchyroll, Crunchyroll, LLC and Funimation that would replace the current mainspace pages. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 10:41, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Ponniyin Selvan: II

The film is out now (https://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/tamil/ponniyin-selvan-2-review-release-live-updates-aishwarya-rai-mani-ratnam-box-office-collection-8579283/), please is it possible to move it to the mainspace? It satisfies WP:NFF. But I might get blocked if I tag Ponniyin Selvan: II for deletion since I previously tagged it and Lourdes reverted it saying, "Let me know why you wish this page to be deleted when the draft has been rejected" and has not made any further edit since. Kailash29792 (talk) 04:36, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Kailash29792 - The draft is not ready for article space, because it lacks a Reception section. Write a Reception section and then submit it for review. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:17, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Please check now. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:36, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Just a gentle reminder . Kailash29792 (talk) 04:36, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment

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Guidance and Help request: Dispute re article: Bill D'Arcy

I filled in a form setting out the dispute -- mentioning the other Editors's name (The Drovers wife) and my own. I have saved what I put on the form summarising the dispute but I cannot find where I found the form. As this is my first dispute with anyone. I do not know what to do next. I never received an answer to the form I filled in (some weeks ago). Your help would be most appreciated.Gladiator-Citizen (talk) 05:21, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Gladiator-Citizen - Here is what I have found. You filed a dispute at DRN with User:The Drover's Wife in March 2023. I noted that you should notify the other editor. You didn't notify the other editor, and I closed the case. It was then robotically archived. But I also commented that she had not edited in about two months. Your dispute was stale by the time you filed it incompletely, and it is still stale. DRN is for current disputes, not for restarting disputes that fizzled out months ago. Your dispute is with an editor who has not edited since January 2023. So my advice is to go back to the article. You aren't likely to be able to discuss with The Drover's Wife, but you can either edit the article, or discuss it with someone else. What to do next is either to edit the article boldly or ask for assistance at the biographies of living persons noticeboard. If you have any more questions, ask them here. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:38, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much Robert McClendon. I thought I had let The Drovers wife know. But I will get my head together and have another go and see what happens. Please stick around!! Gladiator-Citizen (talk) 02:35, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment

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"Wikipedia:Zombie portals" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Wikipedia:Zombie portals has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 2 § Wikipedia:Zombie portals until a consensus is reached. Q𝟤𝟪 10:30, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

RFC on Belarus Section of Coat of Arms of Lithuania

Hi, can you invite a neutral administrator to have a look at this RFC you started (see: Talk:Coat of arms of Lithuania#RFC on Belarus Section of Coat of Arms of Lithuania) and possibly close it as it was running since 1 March 2023, so for more than 1 month already? I think it requires attentive analysis of arguments (not only voting numbers) to ensure WP:NPOV decision. -- Pofka (talk) 20:28, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Pofka I just closed the RFC. -- Shadow of the Starlit Sky 15:24, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: Isn't it too early to implement it (edit) without evaluation of the RFC by an administrator, especially since it is a contentious topic? This could led to situations that a group of people will reach a RFC that earth is flat. I remember that previously RFCs related with dispute resolutions noticeboard were reviewed by administrators to confirm the final decision and RFC voting result only was a non-obligatory suggestion for an administrator. I remind that this RFC was started due to discussion which you moderated at the dispute resolution noticeboard. Can you please restore status quo until such a review by an administrator is performed? -- Pofka (talk) 22:04, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Pofka - No as to the question and the request. See Non-Admin Closes and Non-Admin Closes of RFCs. Non-administrative closes of RFCs are the same as closes by administrators. If you have questions about the closure, you should first ask the closer, User:Shadow of the Starlit Sky, on their talk page, User talk:Shadow of the Starlit Sky. If you are not satisfied, or simply disagree and want the closure reviewed, you may then request a closure review at WP:AN (Administrators' Noticeboard). I do not recall any specific case where a non-administrative closure has been reviewed by an administrator; in fact, the guideline states that a close will not be overturned specifically because the closer was not an administrator (and normally should not be overturned by one administrator, but rather at WP:AN). I think that this answers your questions. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:26, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying @Robert McClenon about the RfC closure process. I have simply closed the RFC myself despite it being contentious per WP:BEBOLD and because it was left open for all too long. @Pofka if you wish to review my RfC closure feel free to post at WP:AN or my talk page as Robert McClenon said. Best regards -- Shadow of the Starlit Sky 02:51, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

WP:DRN

Hi--Regarding this: [1] The ongoing RfC you referenced in your closing remark is on the first sentence of the article lede and is effectively done. The dispute described at WP:DRN has to do with the "Accession and coronation plans" section, halfway down the article. The RfC and the dispute that requires outside input/assistance are two different things. Also, which other dispute resolution forum is this dispute pending on? None of the other involved editors notified me of such a thing... ₪ MIESIANIACAL 02:07, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Miesianiacal - I prefer not to moderate discussion about any part of an article when any part of the article is being discussed in another forum, unless I can see that the two subtopics are completely unrelated. I can see that the two topics are different but interrelated. Sometimes what initially look like two unrelated disputes can spill over into each other. I will add that I don't think that moderated discussion can resolve any issues in three days. If you ask me to reopen your request, I will reopen it and leave it to see if a volunteer accepts it, but I think that it is unlikely that anyone will accept it within three days, because we have been having a shortage of volunteers at DRN. I think that you are unlikely to get either of the disputes resolved within three days. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:19, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I understand; thanks for explaining. I'd elaborate on what the intention of the presently open RfC is and clarfiy a few other matters; but, after another failed attempt to get cooperation from the main disputing editor last night, I realised there's most likely nothing you or any other mediator could do to move us past the impasse; as far as I understand it, it's not your role to declare a winner in a debate or disqualify one of the parties for failing to present a rational argument. We'll see what else we can do or, who knows, just happens to happen. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 19:13, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Gonzalo Lira

I'm interested in improving Draft:Gonzalo Lira and submitting it. I see it has a lot of issues and a past AFD. He was arrested again and may be charged soon so I think he is a bit more notable now. Thoughts on this? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 06:05, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Immanuelle - I have looked at it once today, and have not reviewed the current version in detail. I think that you should go ahead and improve it and submit it for review. There have been three AFDs, the last two of which have been inconclusive, so improvement to it may improve it. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:58, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Vurg

Hello i just noticed that the case of Vurg has been removed from the Wikipedia Resolution Noticeboard. Did that happen by mistake? Is the discussion still on progress?RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 12:03, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

User:RoyalHeritageAlb - That was not so much a mistake as a misfeature. The bot thought that we were finished discussing it, and archived it. (It's a bot. It isn't very smart.) I have unarchived it, and have extended the expiration date. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Roberto Rivera (businessman)

I seen something under the name Draft:Roberto Rivera (businessman). I seen something that said {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help) May I please try to help. Please give yourself some time to think. Now I vanish! CouchPotato0209 (talk) 12:57, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

List of cargo airlines

What sort of citations are you looking for here? The fact that a cargo airline is indeed a cargo airline is believable just from the fact that the article exists, no? If it’s information such as the location of an airline, that can be verified by simply clicking on the article. SurferSquall (talk) 00:51, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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Your draft article, Draft:NumFOCUS

Hello, Robert McClenon. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "NumFOCUS".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:53, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Liz - This is strange. Neither I nor the visible logs have any record that I touched this deleted draft. None of Draft:NumFOCUS, Draft:NumFocus, NumFOCUS, or NumFocus show any record of my having done anything with that title, and I don't have a record of having seen that title, only 3457 other titles. Oh well. It doesn't matter. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:15, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Why the Writers Barnstar?

Why did I get the writer Barnstar for creating many species of grasses? Isn't the writer's barnstar for those who have made an article about a writer? BloxyColaSweet (talk) 23:55, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

User:BloxyColaSweet The Writer's Barnstar is awarded to any user who has written a large number of articles or has contributed a large number of edits. It is for writing articles. They could be articles about authors, or anything. When I have awarded it, it is because I was looking at the New Pages Feed and saw a large number of articles on different species in a biological family or biological order. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I understand. Again, thank you so much for the award. I couldnt have been more motivated without you. BloxyColaSweet (talk) 04:39, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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"History merge" tag on "Ulrich L. Rohde" article

Hello Robert,

you recently placed a "History merge" tag on the Ulrich L. Rohde article I created during the last few days, suggesting that copy-and-past were performed from Draft:Ulrich L. Rohde. However, I independently created the article from scratch, loosely inspired from the German article; I did only got to know the draft space article when I first attempted to move my article from my user space into the draft space, which failed because the draft article already existed there – I then published my article to the mainspace instead. So I never copied anything from this draft space article.

The latter, on the contrary, seems to be a mixture of word-by-word translation from the German article and copy-and-paste from this Web page which I, on my part, used as a cource and cited it properly, in contrast to the draft space article, which is citing no sources at all in its first section.

So I think, therefore, the "History merge" tag on the mainspace article shall be removed, and the draft article shall be deleted due to copyright infringement.

— Anton Maienfeldt (talk) 11:08, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Anton Maienfeldt - I was mistaken in placing the history merge tag on the article, and it appears that I meant to apply the merge tag to the article. I see that the content of the draft and the article are different. I will take a look at the draft with regard to whether it is a copyvio, but I haven't read or written German in decades. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:54, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Anton Maienfeldt - I have changed the history merge tag to a merge tag, which is what I should have applied last night. The copyright violation detector says that there is an 81% match between the draft and a web page, so I have tagged the draft for G12, and we will wait to see whether an admin agrees with us. I apologize for putting the wrong tag on. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:06, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

OK, thank you. — Anton Maienfeldt (talk) 15:47, 27 May 2023 (UTC)