Talk:Livestock guardian dog: Difference between revisions
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== Requested move == |
== Requested move == |
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:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. '' |
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{{{result|The result of the {{{type|proposal}}} was}}} '''PAGE MOVED''' per discussion below. -[[User:GTBacchus|GTBacchus]]<sup>([[User talk:GTBacchus|talk]])</sup> 04:18, 13 January 2008 (UTC) |
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I noticed the little note at the top there, but considering that outside this article I've never heard "livestock guarding dog" used, and I've got half a dozen reliable and topically relevant sources sitting right in front of me that use "livestock guardian dog" exclusively, I think it's absurd for the name of the article to be what it is now. If anyone wants them I can produce all the sources with all the pertinent info. But claiming that "scholars" prefer one name without providing references is unacceptable. Even if this was true, what academia prefers is not automatically better. Books and member associations generally available that deal with the subject use "livestock guardian dog", and that is what people will be searching for. [[User:VanTucky|'''Van<span style="color:#FF4F00">Tucky</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:VanTucky|talk]]</sup> 05:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC) |
I noticed the little note at the top there, but considering that outside this article I've never heard "livestock guarding dog" used, and I've got half a dozen reliable and topically relevant sources sitting right in front of me that use "livestock guardian dog" exclusively, I think it's absurd for the name of the article to be what it is now. If anyone wants them I can produce all the sources with all the pertinent info. But claiming that "scholars" prefer one name without providing references is unacceptable. Even if this was true, what academia prefers is not automatically better. Books and member associations generally available that deal with the subject use "livestock guardian dog", and that is what people will be searching for. [[User:VanTucky|'''Van<span style="color:#FF4F00">Tucky</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:VanTucky|talk]]</sup> 05:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC) |
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* '''Support''' I think the comments by [[User:VanTucky|'''Van<span style="color:#FF4F00">Tucky</span>''']] suggest good reason for a move to [[Livestock guardian dog]]. Interestingly, searching for [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Livestock+guarding+dog%22 "Livestock guard'''ing''' dog"] heralds a page about "Livestock Guard'''ian''' Dogs" --[[User:Lox|Lox]] ([[User talk:Lox|t]],[[Special:Contributions/Lox|c]]) 09:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC) |
* '''Support''' I think the comments by [[User:VanTucky|'''Van<span style="color:#FF4F00">Tucky</span>''']] suggest good reason for a move to [[Livestock guardian dog]]. Interestingly, searching for [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Livestock+guarding+dog%22 "Livestock guard'''ing''' dog"] heralds a page about "Livestock Guard'''ian''' Dogs" --[[User:Lox|Lox]] ([[User talk:Lox|t]],[[Special:Contributions/Lox|c]]) 09:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:pollbottom --> |
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Revision as of 04:18, 13 January 2008
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Please Note: The term Livestock guarding dog is the one used by scholars writing on the subject, not the term Livestock guardian dog, which is equally logical but just not the one adopted by those studing the subject.
Yorkshire Terrier?
I am not a dog breed expert, so I am just curious - is Yorkshire Terrier really livestock guarding dog? CyberGene 20:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:18, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I noticed the little note at the top there, but considering that outside this article I've never heard "livestock guarding dog" used, and I've got half a dozen reliable and topically relevant sources sitting right in front of me that use "livestock guardian dog" exclusively, I think it's absurd for the name of the article to be what it is now. If anyone wants them I can produce all the sources with all the pertinent info. But claiming that "scholars" prefer one name without providing references is unacceptable. Even if this was true, what academia prefers is not automatically better. Books and member associations generally available that deal with the subject use "livestock guardian dog", and that is what people will be searching for. VanTucky talk 05:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
- I notice that this page was earlier moved from Livestock guardian dog to Livestock guarding dog, and I checked the sources cited in the article. Of the four websites that loaded successfully and had any reference to the subject, two use "Guarding" (overwhelmingly), and two use "Guardian" (exclusively). Both "Guarding" sources seem to be more academic, and both "Guardian" sources seem to be more industry-oriented.
Based upon the principle from our naming conventions that Wikipedia is optimized for the general reader over the specialist, the case seems slightly stronger for Livestock guardian dogs. I think it might be good to gather a bit more input, so I'm relisting the request at WP:RM for another 5 days. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- That's fair. I can provide more resources (written for the general public, not industry publications or academic ones) of those that use guardian exclusively. VanTucky talk 02:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, I think that would be helpful. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- That's fair. I can provide more resources (written for the general public, not industry publications or academic ones) of those that use guardian exclusively. VanTucky talk 02:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- All of the sources I list below, which I've been using in Domestic sheep, exclusively use "livestock guardian dog". And keeping aware that it isn't a valid sole reason for changing the name, guardian gets more than 8,000 hits and guarding only gets over 2,000. The first hit for the latter term directly goes to the "Livestock Guardian Dog Association". It is indicative that the USDA prefers guarding, but this is the only major source that I have personally seen use it so far. I would agree with the assessment that the general public and most general reading sources use guardian, while specialized organizations such as the USDA use guarding. I would advocate using what most people are going to recognize. VanTucky talk 19:02, 6 January 2008 (UTC) [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]
- ^ Ensminger, Dr. M.E. (1986). Sheep and Goat Science, Fifth Edition. Danville, Illinois: The Interstate Printers and Publishers Inc. ISBN 0-8134-2464-X.
{{cite book}}: Unknown parameter|coauthors=ignored (|author=suggested) (help) - ^ Smith M.S., Barbara (1997). Beginning Shepherd's Manual, Second Edition. Ames, Iowa: Iowa State University Press. ISBN 0-8138-2799-X.
{{cite book}}: Unknown parameter|coauthors=ignored (|author=suggested) (help) - ^ Weaver, Sue (2005). Sheep: small-scale sheep keeping for pleasure and profit. 3 Burroughs Irvine, CA 92618: Hobby Farm Press, an imprint of BowTie Press, a division of BowTie Inc. ISBN 1-931993-49-1.
{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location (link) - ^ Brown, Dave (1996). The Modern Shepherd. Wharfedale Road, Ipswich 1P1 4LG, United Kingdom: Farming Press. ISBN 0-85236-188-2.
{{cite book}}: Unknown parameter|coauthors=ignored (|author=suggested) (help)CS1 maint: location (link) - ^ Budiansky, Stephen (1999). The Covenant of the Wild: Why animals chose domestication. Yale University Press. ISBN 0300079931.
- ^ Wooster, Chuck (2005). Living with Sheep: Everything You Need to Know to Raise Your Own Flock. Guilford, Conneticut: The Lyons Press. ISBN 1-59228-531-7.
{{cite book}}: Unknown parameter|coauthors=ignored (|author=suggested) (help) - ^ Sheep and Predator Management -2005, American Sheep Industry Association, May 6, 2005, retrieved 2007-12-27
- ^ Simmons, Paula (2001). Storey's Guide to Raising Sheep. North Adams, MA: Storey Publishing LLC. ISBN 978-1-58017-262-2.
{{cite book}}: Unknown parameter|coauthors=ignored (|author=suggested) (help)
- Support I think the comments by VanTucky suggest good reason for a move to Livestock guardian dog. Interestingly, searching for "Livestock guarding dog" heralds a page about "Livestock Guardian Dogs" --Lox (t,c) 09:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.