Talk:J. R. R. Tolkien

Pronunciation

The first syllable of the name "Tolkien" has not the vowel of "toe", but the vowel of "pot" according to J. R. R. Tolkien's own phonetic transcription published on an illustration in The Return of the Shadow: The History of The Lord of the Rings, Part One. [Edited by] Christopher Tolkien. London: Unwin Hyman, [25 August] 1988. Pp. [iii]-xii, 497 pp., [1] plate. (The History of Middle-earth; 6) ISBN 0-04-440162-0. Therefore, I suggest the transcription be changed from current /ˈtəʊlkiːn/ to /ˈtɒlkiːn/. The current pronunciation references to a website that does not indicate any further references, so I think that Tolkien's own account on his name's pronunciation should be preferred. -- machᵗᵃˡᵏ 12:56, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Non-free images

There are several non-free images in this article whose use is not justified by WP:NFCC. Some of them have been recently changed to having non-free unsure tags, but the publication dates listed (despite their creation dates) make them non-free. Unless there is evidence that these were in fact published before 1923 (which strikes me as unlikely, considering he wasn't well known then), I will be nominating these for deletion. Specifically, these fail WP:NFCC8 because they do not contribute significantly to the article (readers don't need to see young Tolkien or standing-by-the-tree Tolkien to understand the article). Calliopejen1 (talk) 06:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I think you will find that not only are you incorrect in your extreme interpretation of NFCC policy, but you are also incorrect in you evaluation of the importance of these images to a rounded presentation of the life and work of J.R.R. Tolkien. For instance, Tolkien was a great lover of trees, and the fact that that particular photograph shows him next to his favorite tree is irreplaceable. Description by itself can't do justice to the way Tolkien's hand rests on the trunk, or his expression, or the way he stands. We can see – and feel – an awful lot from that photograph, which is essential to the article. Similar reasons can be given for the other images, and their contribution to the article in dealing with the various phases of Tolkien's life, but I won't rehearse them here, instead I will bring them to any IfD you initiate. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 07:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

• (ec)Stalking ed here. I can't see which images you are talking about. A biography of a notable subject requires depiction of the subject at different stages in his or her life. Those images (specifically the standing by the tree one) provide irreplaceable illustration of the subject and that more than meets NFCC 8. Protonk (talk) 07:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Note to all: I've watchlisted all of the images in this article, so in case an IfD (Image for Deletion) on one of them is initiated, and by an oversight a notice isn't placed on this talk page, or on the talk page of the uploader of the images, I will attempt to make those notifications myself. I would then encourage everyone here to attend those IfDs and make your views known there. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 07:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Date of Death

It says in the article that he died in 1971, yet one of the pictures was taken in 1973? 24.182.202.133 (talk) 00:26, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

No, the article consistently gives his year of death as 1973. -—RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 00:59, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Wagner

See Talk:J. R. R. Tolkien's influences#Wagner:

An article used to support the weight of his influence actually posits the opposite. http://tolkienonline.de/etep/1ring5.html That has been corrected with proper representation. IMO it's all overblown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.86.194.8 (talk) 02:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Someone should correct this (I'm new, can't do it myself yet):

Two of the characteristics possessed by the One Ring, its inherent malevolence and corrupting power upon minds and wills, were not present in the mythical sources but have a central role in Wagner's opera.

Yet the link says:

Wagner's Ring is about the power of love juxtaposed against the love of power. It has also been described as the rape of the purity of Nature in the pursuit of power. Whatever power the Ring has, any evil associated with it comes from without, or from the curses. Unlike Sauron's Ring, it does not have or possess the evil power of its maker. ... [Wagner's] Ring is not inherently evil. But whoever takes the Ring takes it subject to its curses.

Darth Predator (talk) 15:56, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Ambiguous pronoun: please clarify

In the section about Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, this article states:

Tolkien and Lewis might have grown closer during their days at Headington, but this was prevented by Lewis' marriage to Joy Davidman. Tolkien felt that Lewis expected his friends to pay court to her, even though as a bachelor in the thirties, he had often ignored the fact that his friends had wives to go home to.

Who is the person referred to by the underlined "he" and "his"? Grammatically, and from context, both Lewis and Tolkien are possible antecedents. The friendship began roughly in 1927, when Tolkien was 34-ish and Lewis was 28-ish. So they were friends in their thirties, although Tolkien was not a bachelor in his thirties, so I suppose this must be Lewis. But we shouldn't have sentences that are not comprehensible without a timeline of the two lives.

In interest of NPOV, it might also be good to clarify whether Lewis in his thirties ignored his friends' marital status (objective fact), or whether Tolkien claimed that Lewis had done this (allegation). Either of these requires a citation, of course. — Lawrence King ^(talk) 07:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

It refers to Lewis. Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 08:52, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Blockquotes

Manual of Style : Quotations: "A long quote (more than four lines, or consisting of more than one paragraph, regardless of number of lines) is formatted as a block quotation, which Wikimedia's software will indent from both margins."

I have moved single-sentence quotations to their parent paragraphs, with quotation marks to distinguish them. However, it is clear that WP policy is for blockquotes of over four lines. I am fine with only putting quotes of three sentences and less back in the main paragraph. Anarchangel (talk) 23:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Tolkien's Religion

I believe his religion should be placed by his brief biography on the side panel. His religion was very important to him, and not recognize that I believe is unfair. His religious ideas were very prominent in his books. Also, in all other Wikipedia articles they have the persons religion right next to their brief biography. Why not Tolkien's? --Mantyxc (talk) 21:05, 6 December 2008 (UTC)